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View Diary: Swingnuts: Tips for the transition to DKE (213 comments)

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  •  This isn't a DK4 group. (5+ / 0-)

    This is a DK subsite. It's sanctioned by Markos, has own moderators and full-time admins and is officially affiliated with the site.

    Groups are user-run.

    Maybe it won't go over well, but I guess you'll have to deal with it. I mean, we're over here now. It might have been interesting to have that debate with the DK community before we were ported, but that didn't happen. Now we're here and we're here to stay. And we want our Conservatives and Republicans to be able to comment and diary here in peace, which clearly wouldn't work under normal DK rules.

    •  what do you mean subsite? (5+ / 0-)

      DKE posted on our frontpage is a subsite? with its own moderators and admins? who are the moderators and who are the admins?

      Some of the issues raised in this diary are issues people have been fighting over here at DK. like ganging up on HRs, factions etc.

      So, i was a bit shocked to say the least that it was being promoted in a diary.

      Looks like this subsite will have different rules from DK, but i never heard of anything here called a subsite. i'd love to learn more.

      Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

      by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Thu May 05, 2011 at 01:39:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  . (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tietack, Zornorph, SaoMagnifico, MichaelNY

      I want to restate this with emphasis:

      Now we're here and we're here to stay. And we want our Conservatives and Republicans to be able to comment and diary here in peace, which clearly wouldn't work under normal DK rules.

      21, Nice Calm Burkean Post-Modern Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood), TX-23 (School), TX-10 (Home); SSP: wmayes

      by wwmiv on Thu May 05, 2011 at 01:42:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's just rude: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tietack, PhilJD
      Maybe it won't go over well, but I guess you'll have to deal with it. I mean, we're over here now.

      PDB has busted her ass long before you showed up here and deserves more respect than some flip answer like you gave.

      It's your victories that give you your confidence but it's your setbacks that give you your character. -Van Jones

      by Oke on Thu May 05, 2011 at 03:32:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  While I wouldn't have been so blunt (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Oke, wwmiv, SaoMagnifico, MichaelNY

        What user wwmiv described is consistent with the mission statement of Daily Kos Elections, linked and quoted in the diary.

        I hope; therefore, I can live.

        by tietack on Thu May 05, 2011 at 03:58:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wasn't meant like a flip answer. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SaoMagnifico, tietack

        It's just that we ARE here now. That's a fact. And we're a community that already exists, with its own rules.
        And those rules allows people to thrive and express themselves that wouldn't be allowed to do that at DK.
        While maybe before the move we could have discussed that, we've already been physically ported over, so now it's too late to do that.

        Also, I didn't show up here today or yesterday, I've been posting on Kos for almost three years now.

    •  Why no, this wouldn't work under normal DK rules: (5+ / 0-)
      And we want our Conservatives and Republicans to be able to comment and diary here in peace
      Why ever would that be?  Might it have something to do with the fact that the GOP today is made up of war-mongering, torture-loving racists... and no one else? The center of the Republican Party in 2011 would have been the center of the John Birch Society 25 years ago. There are two kinds of conservatives today: Teabaggers, and twerps who are afraid of the teabaggers. I suppose the latter are your kind of conservatives. Are The Davids, Brooks and Frum, examples of "reasonable" conservatives in your eyes?

      Let me say this calmly, with as much gentility as I can possibly muster:  "Your" Conservatives and Republicans can kiss my fucking ass.  

      You obviously have Ko$' ear, and I'm no one at all, but I'm certain I'm not alone in predicting this "innovation" will not end well.

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Fri May 06, 2011 at 05:49:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Brooks and Frum discuss policy (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tietack, twohundertseventy, Kretzy

        The Republicans and conservatives in our community discuss horse-race politics. And many of them are very knowledgeable, clear-eyed, and level-headed. We appreciated having them on SSP and we are hopeful that many if not all will find a new home here. And we will defend them against any unwarranted attacks.

        I don't care if someone voted for President Bush or thinks we should bomb North Korea or writes Harry Potter slashfic as long as they keep it to themselves and contribute in a constructive, meaningful way. Anyone who couldn't handle that got banned from SSP. Those conservatives who were active at the time of transition were good and valuable members of our community who conducted themselves respectfully and appropriately. And they will be welcome here.

        Independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native, Swingnut for life, and keeper of the DKE glossary.

        by SaoMagnifico on Fri May 06, 2011 at 05:58:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Agreed. And PhilJD should get out in the real (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tietack

          world a bit. I don't believe that even a huge minority of Republicans consists of war-mongering, torture-loving racists. And if you actually talked to Republicans, especially highly educated ones, instead of spitting them in the face at first sight, you'd know that.

          •  When you resurrect Nelson Rockefeller (6+ / 0-)

            or even Everett Dirksen...

            please let me know.

            When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

            by PhilJD on Fri May 06, 2011 at 06:28:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I would not have been so blunt (0+ / 0-)

            I think we will demonstrate by our actions, that it is possible -- and helpful -- to have a community where Democrats and Republicans exchange ideas and opinions on politics (not policy).

            I hope; therefore, I can live.

            by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 06:28:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I live in Chicago, very much the real world (7+ / 0-)

            last time I looked. Illinois is as much of a center for "rational" Republicans as there is anymore.

            I used to think Mark Kirk was not so bad. Look at what he's morphed into. And Kirk is a fine example of a "sane," "highly educated" Republican.

            When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

            by PhilJD on Fri May 06, 2011 at 06:33:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Suggestion: listen to the Rs who come here (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PhilJD

              I believe that you will be pleasantly surprised.

              At SSP, encouraged by our moderators, we have always done our best to avoid provoking them into policy discussions. Those same moderators are now also here as leaders at Daily Kos Elections.

              I hope; therefore, I can live.

              by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 06:37:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Will these Rs and Cons be committed to electing... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                musing85, Maikeru Ronin, PhilJD

                or helping to elect more and better Democrats?

                More and Better Democrats

                by SJerseyIndy on Fri May 06, 2011 at 01:37:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No. Please read the DKE mission statement (0+ / 0-)

                  linked above. Our focus is on politics, not policy.

                  I hope; therefore, I can live.

                  by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 01:48:12 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Then what the hell good are they? (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Maikeru Ronin, PhilJD, SJerseyIndy

                    If I were interested in finding out what the Republican Party thinks about politics, I need only turn on my television--where I will find it on display everywhere I turn. Or turn on Nice Polite Republicans and listen to them. Or read a newspaper.

                    I see no need (or useful purpose) to bring them here and give them the ability to go forth and troll the rest of this site. As if we didn't have enough stealth Republican operatives doing that already.

                    Count me out.

                    Oh, and if this is an example of what this "sub-site" is going to be serving up, thanks for serving notice now, so I'll know to ignore it later on.

                    •  Lord (0+ / 0-)

                      You misunderstand completely. They won't be trolling. They aren't stealth operatives. They aren't like the Republicans on TV... Why are you being so negative. Look at this positively... please.

                      21, Nice Calm Burkean Post-Modern Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood), TX-23 (School), TX-10 (Home); SSP: wmayes

                      by wwmiv on Fri May 06, 2011 at 02:19:35 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I believe the misunderstanding is yours (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Maikeru Ronin, PhilJD, SJerseyIndy

                        The diarist explicitly calls for recommending diaries and comments made by Republicans, as a means of getting them trusted user status--status which will not be restricted to this little sub-community. I have no faith in Republicans. None. I have watched them, throughout my entire adult life, undermine this country and what it stands for, in pursuit of wealth and power for them and their friends, at the expense of ordinary average Americans (including, I might add, almost all of their reliable voting base). Why should I view positively enabling them to do to this site what they've done to the country?

                        •  If what you say were true (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          wwmiv

                          then the Swing State Project (SSP) would have long ceased to exist. At SSP, we had many insightful users who just happened to be Rs, and since the discussions were limited to politics, not policy, the interactions worked well.

                          SSP prospered as a progressive part of the blogsphere, and I believe will continue to prosper as Daily Kos Elections.

                          I hope; therefore, I can live.

                          by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 03:00:36 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Clearly you've made up your mind already (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PhilJD

                            As for me, I know a Republican is lying as long as his/her lips are moving. Same goes for fingers clicking away on a keyboard. As well put the fox in charge of the henhouse.

                          •  Then just stay away from our diaries. (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SaoMagnifico, tietack, aggou

                            You're being unreasonable. Our system has been in place for, what, 7 years or so, and it's tested and it works. And they won't be in charge, obviously. They're posting here as commenters, but are moderated by progressive Democrats.

                          •  No fear on that account (0+ / 0-)

                            As I said before, if I want to know what lies Republicans are telling--to themselves or to others--I can always turn on the telly.

                          •  This is what worked with SSP (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SaoMagnifico

                            and Markos hired David Nir, with full knowledge that the Republicans who participate at SSP would be joining us.

                            Susan Gardner (DK Executive Editor) came over to SSP before the merger, to give us her reassurance that everyone on the DK management team would help us maintain our community. And that community includes blue dogs, indies, and yes, Republicans.

                            So we will maintain our community here, in the same way, at our new home at Daily Kos Elections.

                            I hope; therefore, I can live.

                            by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 06:47:04 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  This saddens me you've have bad (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            drhoosierdem, SaoMagnifico

                            experiences with Republicans in the past. I'm hoping that'll change in the future.

                          •  It's good you haven't. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            Though, one wonders just what you thought of the experience for the eight years prior: it was  a wonderful joyride of happiness and prosperity?

                            Where were you?

                            Tiptoeing through tulips with your pink glasses?

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 04:43:56 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Nevermind. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            I just realized you are one of the ones who supported that eght years of bullshit, MR. Republican.

                            How do I guess that?

                            Because I'm reading your other bullshit comments how Conservatives aren't against taxes.

                            Meanwhile, COn after COn tries to find ways to elimnate the paying of taxes.

                            I see you're gonna be one who probably eats lots of my dough with your bullshit talking points.

                            Hope you're hungry. If not, I could share some with your friiends...

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 05:04:01 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  :/ (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SaoMagnifico

                            I don't have talking points, and neither do you. We each have different beliefs which might sound like talking points to others because as a whole, they fall in like with half of the population.   I really do hope that you see republicans aren't "evil" as a whole, just like democrats arent.   Everyone always has not so good ppl in bot& parties. They're not all packed into one party.

                          •  "Conservatives aren't against taxes"? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            Bumper sticker if I ever seen one.

                            Meanwhile, Con after Con tries to find ways to eliminate taxes.

                            When you join reality, I'll treat your comments as if they are real rather than bumper sticker slogans.

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 05:59:30 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  They (0+ / 0-)

                            Don't try to "eliminate" taxes. They just find a way to cut them because we think they go to high. There is no Republican that I know of who says to "eliminate" taxes completely.  Taxes are how you keep the government running, and both Republicans and Democrats know this.  Republicans just prefer not to have higher taxes because we believe it hurts the middle class.  I know you and most others here feel differently about that, and that's fine.  However. As I've already stated conservatives are pro taxes, in moderation.  

                          •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            So when, for example, the conservative candidate in PA said he wanted to ELIMINATE corporate taxes altogether, he really just meant he wanted to "cut" them?

                            Because I've always known eliminate to mean eliminate.

                            Parse much, Mr. Conservative of bad faith?

                            Too high? Tax rates are at their lowest in decades.

                            How have lower taxes in the form of Bush Tax Cuts helped the middle class?

                            A better question might be: how have they not HURT the middle class?

                            Cons as "pro taxes"? Yes, and up is down. And black is white.

                            And I'm Mary Fucking Poppins.

                            Holy shit, you're full of it.

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 06:23:18 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  . (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            aggou, SaoMagnifico

                            21, Nice Calm Burkean Post-Modern Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood), TX-23 (School), TX-10 (Home); SSP: wmayes

                            by wwmiv on Sat May 07, 2011 at 06:41:34 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I appreciate the sentiment. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            Just for clarity: do you always try to bend over backwards to make friends of those running around lying and hypocritically demanding others not do that which said person is up to doing?

                            Or, do you sometimes find yourself resistant to making friends of them until they provide you a little more respect than lying to you and accusing you of doing what they are up to?

                            I'm more the latter type. You?

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 06:44:36 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  this is getting off topic. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Rustbelt Dem, SaoMagnifico

                            I'll leave you to your thoughts my friend. have a good day. Perhpas we will talk again soon.

                          •  Yes, when the facts face you... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            it's always time to turn tail and run. Typical of a Republican.

                            Summata? Didn't quite appreciate a lefty in control of his facts?

                            Make it a little tougher to complain about high taxes when they're at their lowest point in decades?

                            Trouble finding ANY information of how tax cuts helped the middle class?

                            Lemme guess: too much contrary information showing how the tax cuts led to less revenue and found the middle class targeted for savings?

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 06:46:52 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Leave it to RD to show his true colors. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            At least this invasion will show one thing:

                            the upraters like RD will probably be more likely to be friendly toward and want to work with the outright opposition as opposed to wanting to work with those on this side of the asile he might have disagreements with.

                            It's like he's following right in the footsteps of the leader he adores...

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 07:03:06 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Why do you (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SaoMagnifico

                            Like to be mean to everyone? It's ppl like you that don't make politics fin because you only tear others down.  You can have a disagreement with someone, without doing what you do to them. You make more friends and allies by being civil.

                          •  I'm not being mean. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            I'm pointing out the seemingly obvious.

                            People like me make politics not fun?

                            You mean, it's not the conservatives who put gun sights over elected officials before they get shot by the conservative supporters of the one doing the targeting?

                            What's "civil" to you? Trying to lie about being a conservative before being called on it? How is lying civil?

                            Methinks you might take your own advice. You'll make more friends by not lying outright to people and accusing them of doing things you yourself are doing.

                            Take it. Leave it. Choose your own adventure.

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 07:41:40 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  By civil I mean reasonable. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SaoMagnifico

                            Which you aren't. You're attacking anyone the second the disagree with you. If attacking someone means you aren't being mean, then I guess the definition of mean has changed in the 19 years I've been alive.

                          •  I'm being reasonable. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            I don't think it's unreasonable to call people out on their lies and demand honesty.

                            What's unreasonable is lying and playing coy about the truth, as you did

                            It's not about disagreement, it's about you being an outright liar.

                            Heck, whenever we find disgareement, you seem to avoid the fact-based discussion on it in favor of having at me.

                            Like the example in a previous thread. YOu posited there is no drawback (or something to that effect) of a wait time for a woman to gain access to a legal medical procedure.

                            I disagreed, raising the situation wherein death might result from continuing to carry to term and not have the procedure.

                            I queried as to how you would handle it, as a means to discuss the disagreement...

                            and you went missing just like you did when facts about the middle class getting screwed by tax cuts came up...

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 07:51:15 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I didnt run, I just havent seen your (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SaoMagnifico

                            Comment yet. I'll check when I get home and can focus better. Also, I'm not talking about you attacking me. Idc about that, you've been attacking other ppl here like RD etc. You're just coming across more as a bully, than as someone to have a discussion about politics with.

                          •  I think you'll find you can discuss politics with (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            me just fine if you don't include falsehoods or attempts at being deceitful in the discussion. And that's what you tried to do until I called you on it. I'm sorry if you feel that calling you out or calling out the actions of others makes one a bully. But as it relates to RD, you should be aware there is a long-running feud (seemingly ongoing) wherein folks like RD will not uprate (and will go further to HR) people he thinks are not here for the site mission.

                            So, you'll understand my decision to point out his uprating of a user another has already stated will not be helping to achieve the site mission.

                            Folks like RD are now going to have to do some serious soul-searching on all that nonsense, as they now find themselves facing the joining and uprating (to the point of TU status they often go on about) outright members of the opposition to that goal (conservative Republicans like yourself) over a desire to find common ground with those on this side of the aisle they might have past disagreements with.

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 08:10:41 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Ah, I see. (0+ / 0-)

                            Well, I promise I will answer your question when I get home. It's just the mods here like to keep the discussions on topic, which is what ill do.  so ill resume our conversation later on the other thtead, my friend.

                          •  I hope you don't resume this conversation (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SaoMagnifico

                            An issue discussion on taxes, I'm 99.9% certain (I'm not a moderator) is not appropriate for DKE.

                            I hope; therefore, I can live.

                            by tietack on Sat May 07, 2011 at 08:33:02 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  no, the abortion thing from that diary (0+ / 0-)

                            Someone posted.

                          •  You were provoked (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            sberel

                            Nevertheless, this whole subthread goes beyond what we're focused on at DKE, issues, not politics.

                            I hope; therefore, I can live.

                            by tietack on Sat May 07, 2011 at 08:07:28 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Okay. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            Is there a DKE group? I notice this diary wasn't posted to it.

                            It was just posted to the community in general. And, it's really just a diary asking for users to turn Republicans into TUs. So, there that issue to discuss whether it's about policy or not... as it relates to the larger theme of participation here are the site.

                            It wasn't me who asked others t blindly uprate Conservative Republicans to turn them into Trusted Users.

                            That was the diarist, and the diarist rightly received push-back on that proposal.

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 08:14:31 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  My diary also focuses on the DKE Mission Statement (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SaoMagnifico

                            All of the quoted passages are from the DKE Mission Statement. What I quoted to user aggou was straight from what I cited in the body of the diary.

                            It is a mantra that we try to follow, IMO aggou did not. I think the result speaks for itself.

                            It is like our 4th day on the DK site, and your point suggests to me there are more bugs to work out. It is giving me an idea to suggest to the management of DKE.

                            I hope; therefore, I can live.

                            by tietack on Sat May 07, 2011 at 08:21:13 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Based on your last para (0+ / 0-)

                            My username is tietack, and I am the author of the diary here. While I support user aggou's right to be here, I am not aggou.

                            I hope; therefore, I can live.

                            by tietack on Sat May 07, 2011 at 08:22:29 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Gotchya. As the diarist... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            PhilJD, musing85

                            I appreciate your willingness to listen to concerns.

                            I think much of what you're getting pushback on is the fact that this diary all but asks users to just go around reccing and tipping other swingnutters because they're swingnutters.

                            Longtime users will notice, and probably rightly be a bit concerned about, the fact that this can lead to larger number of TUs who probably shouldn't be. Why would conservative republicans not committed to the site mission of electoral victory for more and better Democrats be handed such status? Seems a fair discussion to be had and debated. Especially in light of Markos insisting it should be a little harder to get TU, not easier.

                            I think the point is not the discussion of the mission statement. Many groups have a mission statement. Some even rule out talk of politics altogether.

                            I think the problem here is the stuff about ratings and TU status, and your suggestion that other users have at trying to make TUs of whoever just because they're swingnutters.

                            I mean, should aggou, someone who in my short interaction has already tried to be coy about (if not dishonest about) his being a conservative and has already resorted to calling others ignorant and telling them they're close-minded and the like, be a TU as a result of uprates by way of his being a swingnutter?

                            You seem to be receptive to the concerns in that regard, which is appreciated.

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 08:34:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I do appreciate the concern (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            SaoMagnifico

                            But I think it is unwarranted.

                            At last count, I see approx 70 times as many DK users, when compared to SSP users, based on numbers who have registered on both sites (300,000 DK registrations v. 4500 SSP registrations)

                            I'm guessing maybe 10-20% of SSP users are not Democrats.

                            So the merger of DK and SSP may have increased the number of Rs here by as much as 0.25% (approx max).

                            I think the DK community is stable enough to handle that kind of influx of Rs, who are also regulated on this subsite by the DKE mission statement.

                            I hope; therefore, I can live.

                            by tietack on Sat May 07, 2011 at 08:43:12 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  This discussion is not appropriate for DKE (0+ / 0-)

                            Remember what I cited from the DKE mission statement.

                            The most crucial thing to know about DKE is that our mantra is politics not policy. That is to say, we stay laser-focused on the process and outcome of the electoral horserace, and we avoid debates about policy issues. This isn't to say policy questions never come up, but when they do, it's in the context of how they'll affect what happens on the campaign trail.

                            I see that you were only on SSP for a month. But that is a month longer than user SJerseyIndy.

                            You should know the DKE mantra better. Thus, it is still up to you to set the better example.

                            Cite the mission statement. Turn the other cheek.

                            and do NOT discuss issues, (unless it's in the context of how it affects the chances of a specific candidate)

                            I hope; therefore, I can live.

                            by tietack on Sat May 07, 2011 at 08:04:50 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  one last thing. (0+ / 0-)

                            I never said anything about supporting everything that has happened on the past 8 years. That's a faulty assumption. No one will ever be 100% happy with what a president does, or congress.

                  •  You do realize the mission statement of the site (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    wishingwell, musing85

                    correct?

                    They will be made aware of it as well, correct?

                    More and Better Democrats

                    by SJerseyIndy on Fri May 06, 2011 at 02:59:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Daily Kos Elections (DKE) (0+ / 0-)

                      is part of Daily Kos. And the DKE mission statement (linked above) has been approved by the leaders of DK, as documented in the comments elsewhere on this diary.

                      I hope; therefore, I can live.

                      by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 03:02:00 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I get the DKE mission statement. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Maikeru Ronin, musing85

                        It's about politics, not policy.

                        It's about how those politics can affect the horse races.

                        Races we want to win.

                        That, electoral victory, along with reform, being the over-arching mission of the site spelled out in the FAQ.

                        How do you foresee Republicans and Conservatives expected to arrive here helping us win those races (i.e. achieve the site mission of electoral victory) while not participating in a contrary way?

                        More and Better Democrats

                        by SJerseyIndy on Fri May 06, 2011 at 03:05:42 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You may have missed one bit (0+ / 0-)
                          we aren't cheerleaders: If the news is bad for us or good for the other side, we won't hesitate to report on it, and we'll give clear-eyed analysis no matter what.

                          Both Ds and Rs on SSP frequently found news, good and bad, for both sides. We brainstormed, and deliberated on the potential effects.

                          Personally, I see SSP (now DKE) as the logical successor to the Campaigns and Elections magazine.

                          I hope; therefore, I can live.

                          by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 03:09:39 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  No. You still don't understand. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          SaoMagnifico

                          The broader mission of DailyKos may be to elect progressives, but the mission of DailyKos Elections is simply to discuss to politics. David and the group will solicit funds through ActBlue occasionally, but the conservatives probably aren't going to donate. That's their prerogative.

                          We only talk about the politics here. Politics does not mean policy. Politics means horse race. DKE isn't about the mission of electing progressives, DKE is about having clear eyed discussion of whether of not those progressives will win. Its a useful counterpart. Conservatives can have that clear eyed discussion just as well as the community here can.

                          As my example I will use the 2010 election. Practically noone here (DK) believed that the Republicans would take the house. The Republicans on SSP, on the other hand, did. Who ended up being right? Sadly, they did.

                          21, Nice Calm Burkean Post-Modern Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood), TX-23 (School), TX-10 (Home); SSP: wmayes

                          by wwmiv on Fri May 06, 2011 at 03:10:38 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  The broader mission is to elect Democrats... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Maikeru Ronin, musing85

                            more and better Democrats, specifically, but not necessarily in that order.

                            You'll note that it was the Progressives around here who warned of the GOP taking the House time and again. Only to be ignored and accused of such stupidity as helping the other side.

                            In fact, the generally accepted narrative here was that we'd hold the Senate and lose the House.

                            We were right.

                            I'll be understanding of how you might've missed all that, seeing as to how you've joined just a couple months ago.

                            But those of us here for far longer know what you claim is simply not true.

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Fri May 06, 2011 at 03:27:58 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually I've been here since 2008 (3+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            wwmiv, SaoMagnifico, drhoosierdem

                            and there was no generally accepted narrative that we'd lose the House until MAYBE the last few weeks before the election.
                            The mainstream prediction was that we'd lose about 20-25 seats in the House and maybe 2-3 in the Senate. I also remember reading a diary that predicted a Democratic pickup of 7 seats in the Senate and got like 40 tips.

                          •  Amen (0+ / 0-)

                            Just because I didn't have an account does not mean I didn't read the content.

                            21, Nice Calm Burkean Post-Modern Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood), TX-23 (School), TX-10 (Home); SSP: wmayes

                            by wwmiv on Fri May 06, 2011 at 03:44:10 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's just , I guess, that you missed the content.. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            I speak of for favoring content that supports your overly-general and not quite true characterization?

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 04:57:29 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Then it seems you didn't quite pay close enough... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            musing85

                            attention to the Front Page posts by Bowers wherein he regularly stated how the House would likely go to Republicans, regularly citing the numbers being run by former Kossack pablano (who most now know as Nate Silver).

                            Like the diaries how he explained Dems could actually "win" in 2010 by not losing the House. The idea being that losing the House was a foregone conclusion, so if Dems could keep it no matter the large number of seats lost, that'd be a "win".

                            But maybe those posts, and the many diaries piggybacking off of them, were just missed by those in favor of focusing on diaries written by the minoirty who refused to accept reality.

                            No surprise those diaries got many recs.

                            There is a healthy contingent of blind partisans here.

                            Luckily, there is a large contingent who isn't to keep them honest.

                            As part of that contingent, I will be ceding no ground to your friends from across the aisle. And they will earn donuts from me just like friends of mine here do when crossing lines laid out for the community.

                            And I won't be blindly uprating them to earn them status they could later abuse.

                            More and Better Democrats

                            by SJerseyIndy on Sat May 07, 2011 at 04:55:55 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The mission of DKE is a bit different (0+ / 0-)

                            from the mission of Daily Kos as a whole. That is why DKE is known as a "subsite".

                            For more information, I suggest that you contact the head of DKE, David Nir, who is also the recently hired Daily Kos Political Director. IIRC, he's compared it to "let 100 flowers bloom"

                            I hope; therefore, I can live.

                            by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 03:56:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm not talking that much about politicians. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tietack

              Republican politicians are pandering to tea partiers to get money. But there are lots of individual Republican voters that are good people.

            •  Well (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PhilJD

              as grounded in the "real world" as Cubs fans and/or Ozzie Guillen can be, at any rate. (1)

              I think the pressures of national party politics can twist a politician into conforming with the national line.  Look at the conversions that Gephardt and Kucinich did in regard to abortion when they were trying to make the jump from the House of Representatives to the White House.

              (1) I do wish that the 1984 World Series would have been Tigers/Cubs, just for the villain factor in beating them.

              5/1/11: See what happens when you put adults in charge?

              by Rustbelt Dem on Sat May 07, 2011 at 07:25:15 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Just for the record... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Rustbelt Dem, musing85

                On the one hand, I am for my sins a life-long Cub fan, but...

                not anymore. Not as long as the Sharon Angell-loving Mr. Ricketts owns the team. Even my friends think I'm bullshitting, because I really was a big Cub fan, but I don't even know who's on the team now, other than the holdovers like Soriano and Zambrano. I'm done.

                And the fact that politicians change their core beliefs to pander for votes is just a long way of saying: Politicians suck.

                When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

                by PhilJD on Sat May 07, 2011 at 09:53:24 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh, I hear you (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  PhilJD

                  try having the best childhood memories brought to you courtesy of Tom Monaghan.  But then again, the Tribune isn't exactly known for Progressive politics either.  

                  To be honest, I grew up idolizing Ozzie Smith, and for the longest time Jason Isringhausen seemed to be a mainstay of my roto lineup.  Which is why 2006 really hurt.

                  5/1/11: See what happens when you put adults in charge?

                  by Rustbelt Dem on Sat May 07, 2011 at 11:13:15 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Real world normal Republicans all seem (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PhilJD

            to call themselves Independents these days. At least all the many that I know. Perhaps it is different in Germany?

            Btw,I am not terribly impressed by the lack of civility in your comment.

            "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

            by tardis10 on Fri May 06, 2011 at 11:09:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  ... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aggou

              His comment wasn't uncivil.

              21, Nice Calm Burkean Post-Modern Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood), TX-23 (School), TX-10 (Home); SSP: wmayes

              by wwmiv on Fri May 06, 2011 at 11:10:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Really? Personalizing,spitting reference (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PhilJD

                admonition to get out more? It seems we have very different standards as to what civil discourse is. My take on that comment is that I would not say it aloud to someone I just met at a party,so I would not write it here.

                Certainly,ymmv.

                "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

                by tardis10 on Fri May 06, 2011 at 11:24:34 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  In Germany we don't have Independents. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SaoMagnifico

              Actually, the US is the only place that I know that does Party Registration.
              US Republicans would find a place in the right wing of the CDU though. As for a couple of real world normal Republicans that I like, what about NY-23 candidate Scozzafava, or the Montana Lieutenant Governor John Bohlinger?

              •  Dede Scozzafava,as you may know, (0+ / 0-)

                is vilified constantly by the GOP. Her endorsements of Bill Owens and other Democrats and her current position as part of the Cuomo admin. means that she isn't a GOPer to most of that party. I know nothing about Bohlinger. What little I do know about the CDU makes me doubt that many GOPers would be happy there. I'll ask some of my (newly) Independent family members what they think of the CDU platform. (CDU 2009 platform here: http://www.forexpros.com/...) Can't see them embracing much of it. Having lived many years on each side of the Atlantic,I think many basic societal/political assumptions are so far apart as to make trying to place each other along party lines near impossible.  

                Your larger point here seems to be are self-identified Republicans capable of being good people? Of course,individuals are individuals. Always. Yet the reality is that today,the GOP has been over run with elements that no society or political party should tolerate. Can more mainstream GOPers purge their party of the racists & homophobes that are so prominent? I don't know. Sadly surprising to me, they are not trying to do so.  

                 

                "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

                by tardis10 on Fri May 06, 2011 at 01:50:09 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The Rs who came to SSP showed courage (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  wwmiv, SaoMagnifico, aggou

                  and I personally believe the Rs who choose to come to DKE will need more courage.. I want to honor their courage by helping them feel welcome here at DKE, under the reasonable limits defined by David N (and also see James L's note elsewhere in the responses to this diary).

                  While I don't know the opinions of all Rs who were members in good standing of SSP, one common theme that struck me was their intense hatred of RedState.com.

                  I hope; therefore, I can live.

                  by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 02:00:03 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I've always enjoyed (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    tietack, SaoMagnifico, Kretzy

                    SSP, and believe it or not, I like Kos. I don't always agree with everything posted, but that's life, and what else am I supposed to expect when I'm a Conservative haha.

                    I just wish that I'd get a chance to make a comment, at least once without being called a troll. That's why I enjoy DKE. Thank you for having a code and you stick to it. Makes reading much more enjoyable to all!

                    Conservative, NC-06 (SC-04 college) "Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged." Ronald Reagan

                    by aggou on Fri May 06, 2011 at 05:41:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  I was specifically talking of the right-wing of (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SaoMagnifico

                  the CDU. I personally even somewhat sympathize with the left-wing of the CDU, even though I mostly vote SPD or Green, but in the right-wing there are many Palin and Beck fans.

                  And yeah, that's my larger point. I believe that the GOPers and Conservatives who posted on SSP and will hopefully post here are decent people, and very, very knowledgeable on horse-race politics.

                  That's why I'm offended when someone comes in and shouts that every single GOPer is a racist asshole that he wouldn't piss on if they were on fire.

                  Thus my comment of "go out in the real world"- if the commenter was interacting more with Republicans he would find out that a lot of them are decent people and can make for good friends that you can have interesting policy and politics conversations with.

                   

              •  How about (0+ / 0-)

                the Republican's position compared to the CSU?

                5/1/11: See what happens when you put adults in charge?

                by Rustbelt Dem on Sat May 07, 2011 at 07:28:02 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The CSU is just the Bavarian affiliate of the CDU. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Rustbelt Dem

                  Kind of like DFL in Minnesota. They're more conservative than most CDU state organisations, and yeah, I could see most of them voting GOP if you gave them position papers of both parties and a bit of context of how things work in the US.

      •  We discuss politics, not policy (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SaoMagnifico

        We learn from each other. Even the most partisan among us from SSP have learned to respect many of our R posters for their understanding of politics. To quote the mission statement:

        The most crucial thing to know about DKE is that our mantra is politics not policy. That is to say, we stay laser-focused on the process and outcome of the electoral horserace, and we avoid debates about policy issues. This isn't to say policy questions never come up, but when they do, it's in the context of how they'll affect what happens on the campaign trail.

        The Republicans who have come here with us almost never discuss their policy preferences, and they do not indicate their R candidate preferences, unless asked. (And to minimize friction, asking is discouraged.)

        To quote further, we are --not-- cheerleaders.

        We also try hard to separate out our personal preferences from our analysis.

        We recognize this is different from perhaps all of the rest of DK

        We understand that this approach may be different than what you're used to, but the great thing about Daily Kos is that if you are interested in debating policy questions on the merits, there are many, many venues for doing so without ever leaving the site. We just ask that if you see a DK Elections diary, you join us in sticking to a discussion of the politics, not policy.

        Finally, the Rs who join us here are our friends. They have made a leap of faith as well in coming here. We are trying to justify their faith by defending their rights here.

        (In addition, if I understand them correctly, it just so happens that they share a common hatred of Red State.)

        I hope; therefore, I can live.

        by tietack on Fri May 06, 2011 at 06:21:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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