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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Morning Digest: 5/23 (343 comments)

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  •  Not brilliant at all. (16+ / 0-)

    It's the worst kind of dumbassery, actually. Trying to pretend that you didn't say what you clearly just said? In the internet age no less? This is a pretty bad gaffe and the more is talked about it the stupider Brown and his staff look.

    23, Solid Liberal Democrat, DKE Gay Caucus Majority Whip, IN-02 (home), IN-03 (birth), SC-03 (early childhood), IN-09 (college); Swingnut

    by HoosierD42 on Mon May 23, 2011 at 06:56:56 AM PDT

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    •  Yup, this hurts, but he's playing it smart now... (7+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TofG, itskevin, Bharat, dc1000, wwmiv, jncca, drobertson

      ...by voting "no."  Damage having been done, his route to mitigation is a "no" vote.

      This is not the same as Dean Heller's situation because Heller actually cast a "yes" vote in the House.  Brown hasn't voted yet, and having flip-flopped verbally is not the same, and not nearly as damaging, as flip-flopping on actual votes.

      So Brown still helps himself by voting "no."

      That said, there's still fodder here to use against him.  It's just not as effective anymore.

      43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

      by DCCyclone on Mon May 23, 2011 at 07:07:50 AM PDT

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    •  Take the example of the other MA Senator, John (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ArkDem14

      Kerry, who said in the 2004 campaign:

      "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it."

      Brown just made the same mistake.

      •  Nah (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        itskevin, Bharat, DCCyclone, dc1000, sulthernao

        Kerry actually voted for cloture. Brown just said he would.

        •  Yep, there's a big difference (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tietack, dc1000, sulthernao

          I still think Brown is vulnerable and in fact, I'd still bet on the Dems to win this. But, Brown is being very smart by voting no on Ryan. He's going to be much harder to beat now, especially since the Ryan plan is looking like the number one thing Dems will beat Republicans over the head with in 2012.

          As far as "flip-flopping", I'll go even further than DCCyclone above. I'll say his vote against Ryan totally mitigates his saying he would vote for it. There's a lot of wishful thinking going on here about his statement. This is the first thing that's actually made me worry a little bit about our chances against Brown. It's a smart play to vote against Ryan.

          •  A good ad (5+ / 0-)

            would make light of the fact that he supported the bill in question, and only when it became too much of an albatross, he denied it. His first instinct was to vote for it. That has too mean something.

            19, Chairman DKE Gay Caucus, male, Dem, (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09) Tammy Baldwin for Senate!

            by ndrwmls10 on Mon May 23, 2011 at 12:03:34 PM PDT

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            •  I wish, but Brown can say that he listened to (0+ / 0-)

              his constituents on the issue, before finally voting against the Ryan plan.

              "I hope; therefore, I can live."
              For SSP users, see my Tips for Swingnuts diary

              by tietack on Mon May 23, 2011 at 12:07:10 PM PDT

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              •  Yes, but there is still the (0+ / 0-)

                argument that he was going to vote for the bill in the first place and that it took his constituency to say no was a bad thing. It could show how out of touch he is.

                19, Chairman DKE Gay Caucus, male, Dem, (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09) Tammy Baldwin for Senate!

                by ndrwmls10 on Mon May 23, 2011 at 12:09:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  But how can you really make that argument (0+ / 0-)

                  He says he meant to say "on" not "for." He voted against the bill. How can anyone pretend to read his mind? And like tietack says, he "listened" to his constituents - what any good Senator would do. It's not like Kerry, where he did actually vote.

                  I'm not saying you're wrong that he changed his mind about voting for it. I just don't think this is as effective attack as you (and David, for that matter), think it is.

                  •  It's obvious (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    ndrwmls10, KingofSpades

                    he was intending to vote FOR the Ryan proposal. He wouldn't have let that hang out there for a full week, plus, without correcting the record.

                    But you're right that he mitigates the damage by voting against the plan now, and making a pretty good statement in opposition - politically speaking. But there's no question this is an unforced error on his part, and will affect the way some voters see him, if only slightly.

                    I think the big question among some voters who had been favorable to him could become: Can I trust him? What will he do when he doesn't have to answer to voters again for another 6 years?

                    •  An unforced minor error, IMHO (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      itskevin, Inoljt

                      Don't get me wrong: there are plenty of reasons I think Brown is vulnerable, and I think he's more conservative than many realize - you're right that he probably did intend to vote for the Ryan plan before he realized the backlash against it. But this vote proves he's got some political savvy, and that at this point he's more focused on the general election than a tea party challenge.

                  •  You dont need to read his mind (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    itskevin, KingofSpades

                    He said he supported the plan and then denied it.  Turn the question into, is Brown only going to listen to us every time he's up for re-election or can we can count on him to do the right thing every time?

                    This is also really easy to turn against Brown in a very effective campaign ad and voters aren't going to think that deeply into the whole thing.  Particularly since it'll have happened a year and a half ago; how the hell will they remember exactly how that all transpired.  What they'll see is the attack ad showing him saying he's vote for it and then look like a politician in a negative connotation as he back-pedals as fast as possible.  Then the voter will think, oh yeah I remember that, I guess it was kind of douchey and makes me wonder how he'll vote on other issues if he can barely get this easy one right.

                    Not rocket science, just political science.

                    •  You and I will have to disagree on this one (0+ / 0-)

                      He didn't vote for it, and then against it. He will only have voted against it. That's what will count. He'll be able to counteract any criticism by pointing to his vote.

                      I agree, it's not rocket science, just political science, but in this case to Brown's favor. Or, let me put it another way, can you cite an example where a politician said something, but voted another way, and what the politcian said was used against them to prove they are a flip-flop? Don't say Kerry, because he voted two different ways.

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