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View Diary: Is Medicare 'Grand Bargain' still on the table? (174 comments)

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  •  this isn't "odd" at all - the deliberate (10+ / 0-)

    move by president obama to keep OUT of this debate.

    had he jumped into this fray as you suggest he should, then the issue would be about him.  had he jumped into this issue - it would have become about him.

    by allowing those on the ground to keep stating the obvious, those who might be swayed by bigotry are not distracted from the fact that republicans want them dead, too.

    smart move, imho.

    if you don't see this, then how about a nice game of poker!  8^)

    MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

    by edrie on Wed May 25, 2011 at 06:18:20 PM PDT

    •  Hmm. Stayed of the health care reform debate. (9+ / 0-)

      Stayed of the union busting in WI.  Staying out of pretty much anything that might be seen as the slightest bit progressive.  That's really comforting to see that in a leader ... or a supposed leader.

      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

      by accumbens on Wed May 25, 2011 at 06:41:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right. SEEMS to stay out. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        edrie, zizi, wishingwell, samddobermann

        Because he knows if he stands up and makes it his issue, the shrieking hate monkeys will get up and gibber. So he lets people take care of it themselves, all while seeming like he's the reasonable person in the room: it gets more people  interested in democracy, and it makes wishy-washy "centrists" prefer the calm guy, even if he's, gasp, black, over the shrieking hate monkeys.

      •  if i remember correctly, the health care (4+ / 0-)

        bill passed.

        AND, if i also remember correctly, the groundswell of anger over the republicans railroading through anti union bills (which the president could NOT have prevented, in case you weren't aware) is leading to many independents AND moderate republicans examining the direction that the current republican are headed and the screw the public policies they are pushing through legislatures.

        when the opposition party is self-destructing, racing in and pointing fingers is only a distraction that will allow that opposition party time to try to put out their own flames.

        really - haven't you ever engaged in serious political activity before?

        and, as for your "supposed leader" crack, i would assume you have - just not on the same side as i am on.

        MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

        by edrie on Wed May 25, 2011 at 06:55:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you mean the sucker's side, then not this time (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wbgonne
          same side as i am on

          I fell for the bait and switch in 2008.  Not again.

          The Obama loyalists have more excuses for him than a true progressive/liberal should need.  If he was as great as you seem to think, there would be a lot fewer excuses for his behavior.  Indeed, there'd be no reason for excuses.

          And, if by passing a health care bill you mean the biggest gift to private insurers imaginable, then I agree.

          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

          by accumbens on Wed May 25, 2011 at 08:36:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  thought so. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            samddobermann

            what third party candidate are you supporting?

            MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

            by edrie on Wed May 25, 2011 at 09:50:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Probably not any and doubtful I'll vote for Obama. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              wbgonne

              He's gotten a bit more liberaly (a liberal version of truthiness) now that he's started his re-e-lec-tion campaign (in fact, at about the same time), setting us up for another bait and switch.  So not this time.  First time in more than 40 years I won't be voting for President.  (All previously for Democrats.)  

              The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

              by accumbens on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:09:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So you are saying (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                edrie, samddobermann

                Romney or Palin or Pawlenty or Gingrich would be preferable?  I understand wanting to hold our leaders' feet to the fire, but in an election you are choosing A vs. B (almost never A vs. B vs. C).  It matters who you get.

                •  I'm saying when given a choice between (0+ / 0-)

                  crazy conservatives and a corporatist conservative in semi-liberal sheep's clothing, I'll abstain.  If the rest of the country is stupid enough to pick a crazy conservative, then they get what they deserve and so be it.  I've had it with the lesser of evil choice.  I also think it might have to get worse before people come to their senses.

                  The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

                  by accumbens on Thu May 26, 2011 at 05:30:27 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  and this is why the house of representatives (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                samddobermann

                is now controlled by the republicans.

                how is that working out for your principles?

                think about the consequences of your actions.

                MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

                by edrie on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:10:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The House turned because Obama and the Dems (0+ / 0-)

                  didn't stand up to the Republicans.  They conceded their leadership so people went with the de facto majority.

                  The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

                  by accumbens on Thu May 26, 2011 at 05:32:23 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  sorry, you don't get a free pass on this (0+ / 0-)

                    whopper.

                    the house "turned" because people (such as yourself) did not turn out to vote because of not being able to grasp the long term effects of their actions, or, inactions, in this case.

                    NOW how do you like the way the political winds are blowing?

                    are you any closer to your "progressive" goals? (if, indeed, you really ARE a progressive, as you claim).

                    sacrificing the elderly, women, lgbts, the young, the poor, the environment, and more - why?

                    because [insert whine here] "obama didn't listen to MEEEEEE!!!"

                    [note:

                    THIS is why i believe this site is under invasion from republicans!  any person (i am refraining from using the word "fool" here, btw) who refuses to vote for the party that would best represent his/her TOTAL ideology - or, at the very least, PREVENT the candidate who is most ideologically opposed to their values from gaining office is either self-delusional, suffering from megliomania, incredibly naive, incredibly stupid OR a member of the opposition party trying to keep people from voting their own self-interests]

                    MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

                    by edrie on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:02:12 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I love how Obama loyalists always get personal (0+ / 0-)

                      in response to criticisms of their hero.  Seems a bit defensive to me, but what do I know?  I'm just a Republican plant paid to make trouble.

                      The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

                      by accumbens on Thu May 26, 2011 at 09:20:36 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  this has nothing to do with obama. (0+ / 0-)

                        that is a false argument - and makes me think even more that you are not a democrat.

                        this has to do with keeping rabid republican right wingers who want to destroy every progressive piece of legislation since 1914  from being put in a position to do just that.

                        since when did ensuring the election of republicans become the responsibility of one man who is president?

                        riddle me that, (leaving off the pejorative name... because i won't be sucked into a false argument by someone who is out to elect republicans!)

                        MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

                        by edrie on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:28:58 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I've already confessed to being a paid Repub plant (0+ / 0-)

                          What more can I do?  as for

                          since when did ensuring the election of republicans become the responsibility of one man who is president?

                          it's naive to think that people don't take their negative feelings of the President on their Congress critters.

                          Also, if the pollsters can repeatedly make assumptions about a Congressional/Senatorial race based on the proportion of votes the winning president got in the last election, it seems equally reasonable to expect that a negative opinion of the President would influence legislative elections.

                          Glad to know your impulse to get personal is still intact.

                          The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

                          by accumbens on Sat May 28, 2011 at 02:53:11 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

      •  He did NOT stay out of the health (0+ / 0-)

        care debate. In fact a lot of it showed on camera! There was a documentary on PBS — I think it was called The President's Photographer, that showed a lot of the behind the scenes work.

        Don't you remember he had a long talk with Dennis Kucinich right before the house vote?  There were a lot more. He got the house guy to drop his draconian anti abortion bill though he couldn't get Nelson's out.

        He was right not to inject himself in Wisconsin; they would have made it an Obama  hate fest and he and all that damn security would have gotten in the way. They would have attributed the crowds to him.

        You and your buddies sure are cocksure about Obama.

        I'm asking you to believe. Not in my ability to bring about real change in Washington ... I'm asking you to believe in yours. Barack Obama

        by samddobermann on Thu May 26, 2011 at 04:47:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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