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View Diary: Now open for business: The Daily Kos Photo Cooperative (119 comments)

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  •  If smugmug did something like... (5+ / 0-)

    ...that, they'd be out of business in no time.

    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Sat May 28, 2011 at 09:39:45 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  some courts have found such clauses illusory and (7+ / 0-)

      unenforceable:

      On April 15, 2009, a Texas federal district court held that an arbitration provision in Blockbuster’s online terms of service was “illusory” and unenforceable because Blockbuster had reserved the right to change the terms of service at any time. Harris v. Blockbuster Inc., No. 3:09-cv-217-M (N.D. Tex. April 15, 2009). If followed by other courts, the Harris decision could have significant implications not only for website operators, but also for any company that wishes to retain the right to modify its standard terms for existing customers.

      Link is to memo discussing issue of unilateral change in terms of service and citing several cases from very good law firm.

      Top law firms are concerned enough about this Texas case to  warn clients about this practice of most if not all online sites:

      By maintaining a unilateral right to modify online terms, these sites and service providers may be at risk of their terms being held unenforceable. It is more important than ever that online terms be appropriately and carefully considered before posted.
       

      Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

      by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Sat May 28, 2011 at 10:44:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  SCOTUS is not on our side, however. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cdreid

        Just last month they ruled that EULAs can force customers to file for arbitration individually, instead of in a class-action.

        Read up on AT&T Mobility v. Concepcion at the LA Times.

        I realize that unilaterally changing contracts, and forcing individual arbitration are not the same things, but the intention is the same- disempower customers by any means. And can you really argue that the current SCOTUS would rule any other way, if it helped big business?

        The only thing I see that I can do is to avoid these bullshit clauses whenever possible.

        I'm writing in Lizard People on my next ballot.

        by George Hier on Sat May 28, 2011 at 11:53:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  good lord, if you are so freaked out (4+ / 0-)

          by this statement,  and it is only a statement written by this company, then don't participate in the photo club.

          AND, given that lawyers who practice this area of law have stated that most if not all online sites and services use this statement, you will have to stop using quite a few sites and services online.

          Companies do this all the time. I remember in law school the hypothetical about the restaurant that had a sign over its coat rack that it was not responsible for lost or missing items. As if they could unilaterally change the law at that time.

          Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

          by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Sat May 28, 2011 at 12:01:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe you just dont care (0+ / 0-)

            but people who spend a lot of time and money on photography and who are serious about it do. While most photos arent very valuable some can be valued in the range of 10's of thousands.

            I have a wide port of nature/wildlife. Enough to build several books out of. If i just tossed around copyright foolishly someone could literally resell the images or even publish them in book form etc. People/candid/political photographers are no different.

            Asking people to contribute their art to a group in order to help our cause , then telling the photographers to fuck off and quit whining isnt very intelligent or adult. Im curious as to how youd feel if people told you your work should be free.

            A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

            by cdreid on Sat May 28, 2011 at 02:57:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  what? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              citisven

              should i remain silent when someone raises an issue that he or she is concerned about when some courts have addressed that issue and held against the position that is theorized here?

              I did NOT tell anyone to "fuck off," but i do think the poster left more than sufficient comments to express a concern based on speculation.

              Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

              by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Sat May 28, 2011 at 03:08:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  If your analogy (0+ / 0-)

                is an indication of your legal expertise well...

                A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

                by cdreid on Sat May 28, 2011 at 03:11:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  it's definitely a good discussion to have (4+ / 0-)

                  though no need to get so defensive. What it comes down to from an organizational perspective is that we were bound to use one of the accepted host sites, otherwise we couldn't do this project and the whole discussion would be moot anyway. Since all host sites have similar language as smugmug there's really not much we can do. But it's up to each individual to decide whether these are terms they want to sign off on on. If they're too restrictive, don't sign up, there's not much more we can do about it.

                  •  Im not objecting to the image storeage sites (0+ / 0-)

                    Frankly without $$$$ you dont have a lot of choice and while the storeage sites  do have draconian TOS none of them will ever steal copyright. First theyd be instantly out of business and secondly the courts would slap them down through one means or another.

                    My objection was to this poster who seems to have the intellect of a 12 year old and is supremely annoyed that people who spend thousands of dollars on equipment, tens of thousands of hours with a camera and even take risks (People generally do NOT like strangers photographing them) might just not want anyone and everyone to be able to use their work for nothing and for anything.

                    A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

                    by cdreid on Mon May 30, 2011 at 04:57:53 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  it's unfair (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              citisven, concernedamerican

              The co-op did not ask you to contribute and then tell you to "fuck off and quit whining". I know you did not mean it that way, but that's how it reads.

              Your questions above are legitimate, and will be answered in time.

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