Skip to main content

View Diary: Why Grandma Will Be At The Door, Suitcase In Hand (168 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Except No One Really "rioted" in Madison (17+ / 0-)

    Rioting is what they do in Ireland and Greece or what we did in the 60s.

    To call Madison "rioting" is like calling Sarah Palin "presidential material".  

    That said, if the Republican Budget got passed, we would soon come to more clearly understand what FDR said

    We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. "Necessitous men are not free men." People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

    State of the Union Message to Congress  January 11, 1944  (Second "Bill of Rights" speech)

    We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

    by Into The Woods on Tue May 31, 2011 at 05:42:44 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I did write "but only worse". nt. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Julie Gulden, Into The Woods
      •  I agree with the "only worse". You are right. (0+ / 0-)

        We just have to be careful not to adopt the terminology of the the RW/Republican/Global Thieving Class.

        A "riot" is a powerful thing and in some people's eyes even a justfiable response to certain levels of oppression and abuse.

        I am particularly alert to its incorrect use to describe Madison as I would be to describe Egpyt's Tahrir Square.

        Both were near text-book examples of Nonviolent Action and both went to great effort to avoid both violence and destruction of property (the hallmarks of "riots").  

        By "loosely" using words like that to describe any kind of protest, the legitimacy of non-violent protest is diminished and the legitamacy of the groups that strive for nonviolent action and oppose violent riots is also diminished.

        We must fight against that "loose" useage in part because I believe that the source of such useage (and/or its amplification) is neither accidental nor unintentional.

        The reactions to passage of the Republican Budget (including but not limited to TEOMAWKI) would lead to an even more passionate and widespread response than Madison showed.

        My hope is that it too would follow the path of Nonviolent Actions, not merely because it would be more consistent with our values, but also because it would be far more effective on a bottom-line basis.

        I'd highly recommend the following to you and anyone who is interested in change without violence:

        Albert Einstein Institution   -  dedicated to advancing the study and use of strategic nonviolent action in conflicts throughout the world. It is committed to the defense of freedom, democracy, and the reduction of political violence through the use of nonviolent action.

        We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

        by Into The Woods on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 11:10:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Tahrir was nonviolent because the army agreed (0+ / 0-)

          with the protesters.

          If you look at Egypt now, after Mubarrak has been ousted from power, you'll see that the egyptian military sat back and let the people do the work and that the military is now in charge.

          Now, after Mubarrak is gone, the army no longer agrees with the protesters. The army has acted violently at times to clear the protesters from Tahrir square by force.

          Egypt was not a two-sided event in the manner you seem to have thought.

          As far as the effectiveness of nonviolence...

          I suggest you read this diary. And if you find you cannot, then please at an absolute minimum read this book written by a history professor at Tulane, published by University of North Carolina in 2006.

          If you cannot be bothered to have your current notions of the practical supremacy of nonviolence, then think on the hundred-ish nonviolent years between the end of the civil war and the civil rights movement. A time that was filled with The Klan, with strange fruit hanging from the old hangin tree, with nonviolent blacks being kept in a lowly place. A hundred-ish years from the surrender of the confederacy. By the time of that fiftieth year, blacks knew only that they were citizens by technicality but in reality their equality was not in hand. And they were not going to stand up and be 'uppity', because they were nonviolent while the Klan was very violent.

          Nonviolence only works if it is a choice, and not a mandate. Once a bully knows a punch is never going to provoke a counterpunch, then the bully knows there is no reason to stop bullying.

    •  There is protesting and than there is rioting. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mike08, Matt Z, Into The Woods

      When protesting becomes violent, it is rioting.

      Words are important.

      Progressives will win when we convince a majority that they, too, are Progressive.

      by auapplemac on Wed Jun 01, 2011 at 01:27:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site