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View Diary: Air Force Academy Leadership Digs a Deeper Hole (242 comments)

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  •  This shit needs to end and end now (31+ / 0-)

    ENOUGH!  The Academy has got to get a grip.  You know who is the worst when it comes to feeding this?  It is The Navigators.  They come across as this extremely magically posh Christian organization and they attempt to cultivate the cadets big time.  They were going after officers wives at Fort Carson too and invited me to some "secret tea" at Glen Eyrie.  Our faith is supposed to be what heals us and unites us in life if we need it.  It isn't supposed to be what damages us, excludes us, breaks us apart.  I'm sure it doesn't help having Focus on the Family nextdoor to the Academy but I thought The Navigators were far more seductive, promising special secrets, and magic riches from Jesus.  And they are nothing if not secretive, like the damned clan.

    •  Colorado Springs has become a Christian Mecca (20+ / 0-)

      and it does make things worse, I'm sure.

      I'm with you, this has to stop. And it will only stop when the leadership decides to make it stop. And leadership doesn't mean just those at the Academy... they have bosses too.

      •  Angela, Do you know if there are any Muslims (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pris from LA

        at the AFA or in the USAF in general, and what are their chances for advancement within the organization.  Does anyone even talk to them if they are there, other than trying to get them to convert?

        And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

        by MrJersey on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 09:33:01 AM PDT

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        •  can't speak for now but in the 70s and 80s (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ellid, Pris from LA, mayim

          Sikhs (and I assume also Muslims) and Jews were found in some specialties (mostly medical) in the USAF. At the time, the courtesies extended included waivers for beards, etc.

          Post 11SEP01, quien sabe?

          LBJ & Lady Bird, Sully Sullenberger, Molly Ivins, Barbara Jordan, Ann Richards, Drew Brees: Texas is No Bush League! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 09:54:59 AM PDT

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        •  I know Muslims are actively serving. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MrJersey, Pris from LA, neroden

          Have had for years.

          Not sure about the student population at the Academy though my husband says we definitely have foreign students attending who are Muslim. I would be surprised if we didn't have at least a couple of Muslim American students as well.

          As to promotions - in general, your religion isn't a concern. Nor are your politics. Your job performance is. You can promote without going to church. You can promote if you go to a temple or to a mosque or to the bar every Friday night. As long as your job performance is good, you should survive the system. That said, there are always cases of discrimination in the promotion system. They would mostly occur in actual performance reports since the system itself is designed to have multiple eyes looks at the reports and prevent arbitrary decision from ruling the day.

          Does anyone talk to them?  You know, religion doesn't rule the military world. We all talk to each other all the time. Do some families feel isolated? Yes. Definitely. Is their religion part of the problem? Depends... sometimes yes, sometimes no. Is their politics? Progressive families are sometimes more likely to live off base and find outside community support. But I've known conservative families to do the same thing.

          Honestly, the military support system isn't designed to handle the extreme diversity that exists in our United States. It works only if people are willing to let people live their lives without telling them how they should live their lives.  Some people want religious support. Some want secular support. It's been harder since the wars started - we're stressed, we're tired, we rely on each other way too much.  I think the last thing most of us are worried about is our neighbor's religion.

          I wish I could tell you that no Muslim had experienced a Christian trying to get them to convert, but I know that wouldn't be true. But I wouldn't be surprised if that same Muslim hadn't tried to convert the Christian in return.

    •  That's just plain scary! (7+ / 0-)

      Makes me think of suicide bombers and how they are preached into doing the unthinkable which includes recruitment of wives and children..

      and then they'll be excused as just a few rogue warriers because TOO many take that kind of god-speak to heart.

      "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones."

      by roseeriter on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 07:13:39 AM PDT

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    •  The worst thing about this... (10+ / 0-)

      these assholes do things that make me hate them...then they spout off verses like "We know that we are the elect of God because we love The Body of Christ..." thus closing off Christianity from everyone who doesn't think that "Faithful Christian = Authoritarian Right-Wing Douchebag"

      They are so objectionable and obnoxious in their superiority of spirituality,  that people turn off the religion's message, "I'd rather have NO RELIGION if being religious means associating with these clowns and acting like they do"

      Let us suppose that Christianity IS the true faith, and that Christ will judge all of us on the last day, what sort of judgement will THEY get for rendering the truth of Christ's life and message unpalatable to people who'd rather fry in hell before they'd submit to associating with these loons?

      Something like "Woe unto you Pharisees because you bind up men's (something or others)" comes to mind,  meaning you keep people from coming to Christ because of your smug obnoxiousness....

      Or maybe the one that goes "The Name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you!"

      "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

      by leftykook on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 09:19:02 AM PDT

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