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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Morning Digest: 6/2 (315 comments)

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  •  Yes I can say for certain (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    No I can't say what "the environment" will be in 2012, but I can say with 100% certainty that supporting abolishing Medicare, which is exactly what the Ryan plan would do, is suicide in Florida.  It's damaging everywhere else, but much worse in Florida.

    43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

    by DCCyclone on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 12:37:51 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Well, Ryan says it doesnt. (0+ / 0-)

      So we will see whose side stands the test of time on this issue, and who turns out to be more believable to the public as a whole.

      DKE! “Music speaks what cannot be expressed, soothes the mind and gives it rest, heals the heart and makes it whole, flows from heaven to the soul.” anonymous

      by aggou on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 01:11:02 PM PDT

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      •  Public opinion is settled, as is the truth (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KingofSpades, MichaelNY

        I realize you have a hard time even with basic facts such as Obama's birthplace, so I don't expect much from you.

        But for anyone else's benefit, it's settled truth that Ryan's plan abolishes Medicare.

        And public opinion is equally settled, on the side of truth.  Public opinion is not in play, you lost the argument on this, it's over.

        The only hope of your side now is to stop talking about it.  But your pols seem too stupid to do that, they think they have a "messaging" problem.

        43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

        by DCCyclone on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 01:15:33 PM PDT

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        •  ... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TofG, SaoMagnifico, nimh

          Your first point was settled long ago, so how about we leave it be?

          Let's keep it on electoral implications instead of bringing up areas that don't deal with electoral implications.

          Thanks.

          DKE! “Music speaks what cannot be expressed, soothes the mind and gives it rest, heals the heart and makes it whole, flows from heaven to the soul.” anonymous

          by aggou on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 01:43:33 PM PDT

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          •  My first point is something you chose to raise (0+ / 0-)

            You thought it appropriate in the first place to come to SSP and promote a racist conspiracy theory about the President, so no I'm not sorry for reminding that's the sort of thing you've brought to the table here.  It provides appropriate context about you.

            43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

            by DCCyclone on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 05:09:12 PM PDT

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            •  User aggou was new to SSP (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SaoMagnifico, MichaelNY

              when he made his mistake back on the old Website. He's young. If I remember right, he apologized for his mistake.

              He's choosing to immerse himself in understanding us. In that respect, he's showing a willingness to learn. We as Democrats should welcome it. In fact, I believe we should celebrate it.

              I choose to give aggou the benefit of the doubt. To that end, I think it's best to not bring up his past mistakes -- unless he makes a similar "mistake" again.

              "I hope; therefore, I can live."
              For SSP users, see my Tips for Swingnuts diary

              by tietack on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 05:33:12 PM PDT

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              •  I did make a mistake in one area and (5+ / 0-)

                I was sincere in that area. The area he's referring too was different. I'm learning to watch what I say also, and I don't plan to do anything like that again, which I've previously stated, and ill state it again.

                DKE! “Music speaks what cannot be expressed, soothes the mind and gives it rest, heals the heart and makes it whole, flows from heaven to the soul.” anonymous

                by aggou on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 05:44:31 PM PDT

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            •  That is completely false. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SaoMagnifico

              How about we stay on electoral implications like I asked, which is also all this thread is supposed to be about anyway. If you continue this issue I won't comment cause its detailing this threads purpose.  Thanks again.

              DKE! “Music speaks what cannot be expressed, soothes the mind and gives it rest, heals the heart and makes it whole, flows from heaven to the soul.” anonymous

              by aggou on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 05:41:11 PM PDT

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        •  This is why the Dems (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DCCyclone, itskevin, MichaelNY

          need to not allow any cuts to Medicare in the debt/budget compromise.  If we help them cut Medicare, then our attacks on the Ryan plan will seem weak if not hypocritical.

          •  Yup, and that's exactly the GOP's strategy (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            itskevin, SaoMagnifico, jncca, MichaelNY

            The GOP wants to hold the debt ceiling, and the entire economy including every American's job as a result, hostage to try to extract Democratic concessions on Medicare that will give the GOP cover in 2012.

            You're absolutely right that this is why we have to not blink on the debt ceiling talks.  It's critical to call the GOP's bluff.  Boehner has revealed plenty enough that at the 11th hour, he'll cave.  He did on the FY 2011 C.R., he's made it clear the debt ceiling must be raised in the endgame of this debate, and now he admits it has to be done well before the August deadline.

            We'll certainly end up making concessions liberals won't like.  I didn't like the C.R. concessions, and I'm sure I won't like the debt ceiling concessions.  But there must be no concessions on Medicare in particular or on preserving a robust safety net more broadly.  That safety net, going directly to the livelihoods of all Americans, is our most potent 2012 campaign issue.

            43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

            by DCCyclone on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 06:48:48 PM PDT

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            •  President Obama really needs to give a speech... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tietack

              To outline exactly what the consequences of default would be, chasten Congress publicly for not acting, and say something like, "The other party wants to pass a plan that will take Medicare away from our seniors and replace it with a voucher system, take away funding for Pell grants and other forms of student aid, and cut food stamps and nutrition programs for millions of struggling families. Yet they have refused, time and time again, to even discuss raising the marginal tax rate on people earning more than $500,000 a year. Make no mistake - we need to reduce our deficit and get our house in order. But I refuse to allow Republicans to take from our seniors, our students, and our lower-income families while defending tax breaks for the wealthy and tax loopholes for corporations. We need to get serious about reducing our deficit, and that means talking about ways in which we can increase our revenue in order to continue providing the vital services that are helping millions of Americans through this economic recovery."

              That would draw a line in the sand, and I think that would resonate.

              Independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native, Swingnut for life, and keeper of the DKE glossary.

              by SaoMagnifico on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 08:29:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Speech as political strategy: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                SaoMagnifico

                "The Republicans want you to choose to  either change Medicare to let Grandma go poor, or make it impossible to get a loan to buy a new house, or to cede control of our finances to outside forces who may not be friendly to us

                so they can make it possible to continue to give tax breaks to the Exxons and Enrons of America"

                "Obviously, sacrifices must be made in this time of need, but they must be shared by all Americans"

                Obviously, some substitutes are needed for details, but it's important to keep it simple. But the right speech can be mined for sound clips throughout the '12 cycle by every D congressional candidate.

                "I hope; therefore, I can live."
                For SSP users, see my Tips for Swingnuts diary

                by tietack on Thu Jun 02, 2011 at 10:38:43 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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