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View Diary: A Brief History of the Patriot Act (165 comments)

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  •  So...wake up, why don't you...to the reality (4+ / 0-)

    ...that with right wing majorities (even though they are barely holding on to the power, by the skin of their teeth, by hook and by crook) no progressive motion will be possible.

    And that relentlessly attacking the only feasible, viable means for blocking the right from absolute power will somehow improve that situ.

    "Some people" prefer nightmares, seems to me.

    You don't get sweet dreams, by self-destructing.

    Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

    by Radical def on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 08:21:26 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  R's had 59 senators and a large House majority (29+ / 0-)

      in last Congress?  I'll be damned.  Riddle me this--if those big Meanie Hill Goopers are the problem, then why has the WH not spent >$45bn in mortgage relief funds?

      Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

      by RFK Lives on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 08:44:56 AM PDT

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      •  Given the way many "Democrats" voted the R's (12+ / 0-)

        might as well have had a super majority. Why is it they can get 100% of their 41 to vote as a block and we're lucky to get 52? What the fuck is our party's problem?

        OK, that was rhetorical. The answer: campaign contributions.

        As soon as you have people telling other people how to live/think/behave because "god gave them authority" you effectively get dictators in funny looking hats.

        by ontheleftcoast on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 09:18:07 AM PDT

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        •  You don't know? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Calamity Jean, FrankAletha

          Why do GOP members of congress vote as a block?
          Really?

          The answer is (a) campaign contributions (b) effective marketing from CoC and Club for Growth and so on and (c) the far right ALWAYS VOTES in every single election - off year or not, school board, city council, dogcatcher - they are organized and persistent and, until very recently, pragmatic. They show up and vote for Lieberman and for the Maine Senators and for Kay Bailey in the general election and they always have a right wing candidate ready to run in any primary. The stupid gutless so-called US left doesn't have a majority on any city council in the USA, runs primary challenges only when it will help the GOP win the general, is constantly sulking, self-sabotaging and then wondering why the right wins so often.

          Pathetic doesn't even begin to capture it.

      •  Putative Democratic "Majorities"... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        codobus

        ...rotten with Blue Dogs, still amounted to right wing majority, coming out of '08.

        What is it about that you don't get?

        Relentless intransigent repetition of such a blatantly obvious false meme just demonstrates how absolutely unprincipled, opportunist, subjective and hyperbolic "left" oppositionalism tends to be.

        The correct left line at this time is to bring principled solidarity to the President and the Party, to crush the Republicans (and Blue Dogs).

        THEN we can sort out the "moderates", "liberals" and "progressives", democratically, electorally...especially with simple electoral, campaign finance and media reforms that allow a more viable democracy to emerge.

        As long as right wing majorities prevail, conditions will remain less than optimal, or worse.

        Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

        by Radical def on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 09:18:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We marched in solidarity in '06 and '08 (16+ / 0-)

          After the '08 elections, we had the largest popular vote % for a Dem POTUS in 44 years, the largest Senate majority in 30 years, and an ample House majority as well.   On the rare occasion when we've rallied against a Blue Dog in a primary (e.g. AR-Sen '10), the party "leadership" has decisively intervened and then told us we wasted our $ and our efforts aftewards.

          What is it about that you don't get?

          Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream of things that never were and ask why not?

          by RFK Lives on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 11:02:12 AM PDT

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          •  I don't give up and walk away, in face of setbacks (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            codobus, TLS66

            and uncompleted objectives, I grow more resolute, and determined to redouble efforts.

            We have not seized the power, yet.

            Oh well.  

            The struggle continues.

            What is it about THAT that YOU don't get?

            Don't expect sympathy for a lot of whining about how freakin' hard you tried, and how freakin' goddamn disappointed you are that you didn't get instant gratification.

            I've been at this for over 50 years, and have nothing but contempt for those who would throw up their hands and abandon the struggle so easily, especially at this time, when the prospect, and the need for victory is greater than it has ever been for at least several generations.

            Genuine solidarity demands more than that.

            We are up against the biggest, baddest, richest, most ruthless motherfuckers Evah, and nobody with a brain ever promised (or believed, anyway), that it would be easy.

            Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

            by Radical def on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 11:20:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Right a powerful house majority (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TLS66

            in which even progressive Democrats like David Obey were willing to sacrifice health care reform to attack abortion rights and the Senate majority depended on people like that moron from Indiana.

            You did fucking waste your money in AR - as seen by the loss and then the GOP win.

        •  Thank you, Comrade Radical, (0+ / 0-)

          as always, for instructing us on what the Correct Left Line should be.  How goes your little jihad, btw?

    •  exactly (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Radical def, FrankAletha

      "Some people" prefer nightmares

    •  Self-destructing? (23+ / 0-)

      How is advocating for civil liberties self-destructing, exactly?

      "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

      by Lost Left Coaster on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 09:18:01 AM PDT

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      •  Such advocacy, couched in terms of attack... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        citizen k

        ...against our best prospects for effectively suppressing the right can only do more harm than good.

        It would be legitimate to attack those embedded right wing rogue traitor elements in the various agencies, who are misdirecting such investigative powers against the left, instead of the right.

        And to call for more progressive./moderate plurality in the House and Senate, to redirect that and regulate it.

        But to merely attack the Prez and the Party, in such hyperbolic absolutist terms, as purported enemies of civil rights, is both disingenuous, and a serious counter-revolutionary error, which only lends power to the real enemy.

        And that's giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you are not just some right wing pig sock puppet, posturing and posing as "left".

        Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

        by Radical def on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 09:52:53 AM PDT

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        •  Check my UID (18+ / 0-)

          and get back to me, okay? I'm 16,000 behind you. And my goddamn comment history. If I'm a right-wing sock puppet, I've sure been a sleeper for a long time, eh?

          I'm through having this discussion with you. I don't know why I bothered, as I can see from your comment above that you don't even know the difference between civil liberties and civil rights (which is just basic knowledge), but now you're vaguely accusing me of being some kind of right-wing shill, which is ugly, ugly, ugly. Forget it.

          And just check around you, okay, when you get a chance, and you'll see that the USA PATRIOT ACT is not very popular on Daily Kos, not with the front-pagers or a lot of the diarists, so there must be a lot of us "right wing sock puppet(s)" on here.

          I say good day sir!

          "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

          by Lost Left Coaster on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 10:04:58 AM PDT

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          •  Indeed, a lot, no doubt, heh... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            citizen k

            And uid, or "popularity" on dkos, even on the front page is Such a good indication that you couldn't possibly be a freakin' "sleeper" sock puppet, or in error!  LOL

            But if you prefer, I can just call you a shit for brains idiot and politically incorrect, for comitting serious counter-revolutionary error, and leave the speculation about anonymous personas aside.

            It makes little difference, in effect.  

            But the fact that you would resort to such "arguments", due to abject inability to effectively refute my analysis and position, does not lend credibility to your denials, lol.

            Persistence, adamant recalcitrance, and even avid sincerity do not make you correct.  Even nazis have such "qualities".

            Just saying, I don't know who you are, or where you're coming from.  All I have to go on is your practice, here and now, and what line you bring.

            Irrational contradictions are...contradictory, and thus render your "logic" suspect, especially when you seek to dismiss, deflect and evade with irrelevant persiflage.

            Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

            by Radical def on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 11:51:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You must be a Republican if you attack (5+ / 0-)

            the administration, according to apologists.

            The thought that a Democrat might impose standards on Democrats is completely foreign to them.

            •  That, or (2+ / 0-)

              a politically incorrect rogue sleeper counter-revolutionary.  Or something like that.  Joe Stalin ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HComrade Radical knows.  Because he always knows.  His are the answers, the way, the truth, and the light, not to mention the Correct Left Line (check his twitter feeds for the latest updates, of course).

          •  Congratulations (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lost Left Coaster

            you're now in the fuzzy crosshairs of Radical Def's self-appointed jihad against all infidels who do not hew to the Correct Left Line, which is, btw, whatever Radical says the Correct Left Line is.

            •  I had not encountered this commenter (0+ / 0-)

              before. It's been quite an experience! While I rarely have any conflict on DKos, when I do I almost always am accused of being too far left. I've never been accused of being a "right-wing sock puppet" before. It's especially shocking when this comes in the context of me being too harsh a critic of the Patriot Act of all things.

              Oh, and he/she went full Godwin on me too! Wow. That's another first.

              Anyway, judging by the reaction of you and other people here, I'm not going through a unique experience here. Trippy! It's been amusing, anyway.

              "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

              by Lost Left Coaster on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:09:19 AM PDT

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              •  Yeah, Radical's one (0+ / 0-)

                for the record books.

                Check out this diary, for example.

                Watching Radical's descent into certifiable insanity (as well as growing irrelevancy) has actually become fairly entertaining of late.  Mockery seems the best medicine in general.

                Grab some popcorn, and enjoy :)

    •  Oh please. State Secrets are one area (11+ / 0-)

      where the President has a lot of authority to act independently of Congress.

      Mr. Obama could, for instance, have made a signing statement that would at least slow down the ongoing destruction of the rule of law known as the Patriot Act.

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Mon Jun 06, 2011 at 10:59:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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