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View Diary: OK-02: Dan Boren to retire; Brad Carson to run (151 comments)

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  •  misread (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    atdnext, James Allen, MichaelNY, gabjoh

    you said Brad Carson, not Brad Henry.   Too many Brad's and I got confused, lol.  Apologies.  At least i caught it my self.

    "My name's Dr. Multimillionaire and I kicked your ass." --Rep. Steve Kagen D-WI to Karl Rove

    by walja on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:01:15 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Brad Carson (8+ / 0-)

      Is also way cooler than Dan Boren.

      Political Director, Daily Kos

      by David Nir on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:02:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  can you fill us in about Brad Carson? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        I recall the name but I could use a refresher on his resume.  He has run for something  in the recent past for the name to be familiar to me, especially from Oklahoma.

        "My name's Dr. Multimillionaire and I kicked your ass." --Rep. Steve Kagen D-WI to Karl Rove

        by walja on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:05:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Since Carson was before my time (0+ / 0-)

        I don't know much about him personally. But according to his wikipedia page (pretty much the only level of research I'm not too lazy to do) he seems just as conservative as Boren so from an ideological point of view it seems like a wash. I would honestly just have Boren there and not have to worry about the seat.

        •  Meh. (5+ / 0-)

          Carson is moderate but not a dick about it a la Boren. He would be an upgrade as far as voting in Congress goes. But without Boren this becomes a lot harder for us. It probably starts off as lean R I think.

          Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9. Was hoosierdem on SSP, but that username was already taken here :(

          by drhoosierdem on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:16:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well (11+ / 0-)

          I don't think your conclusions are accurate. Who knows how he'll decide to campaign this cycle, but as drhoosierdem notes above, Carson was never as obnoxious as Boren. Here's a great example of Carson's non-douchiness. To sum up: When he was attacked for linking to Daily Kos on his campaign website (and being supported by the site - we endorsed him), he told the NRSC to take a hike:

          Carson's campaign dismissed Allen's accusation and defended its use of its "blog" as a source of diverse information.

          "Our Web site, www.bradcarson.com, links to the best scholars, both liberal and conservative," said a campaign spokesman, Brad Luna.

          "Roughly half of the sites we feature . . . are conservative, pro-Bush sites, and the other half are liberal sites that question the administration's policies.

          "But they all have the common thread of trying to promote thoughtful discussion and engagement in our political process," he said.

          The Carson campaign believes in a robust exchange of ideas instead of a presentation of political propaganda, Luna said.

          "Apparently the National Republican Senatorial Committee prefers propaganda," he said.

          Can you ever imagine Dan Boren taking that kind of position?

          Political Director, Daily Kos

          by David Nir on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:21:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I would also encourage you to read (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          atdnext, Odysseus

          Markos's posts on the Senate race from 2004.

          Political Director, Daily Kos

          by David Nir on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:23:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well from what I read in the past ten minutes (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Khun David, Odysseus

            Carson does seem like a nice guy, but still I don't see any ideological difference between him and Boren. If you could guarantee me that Carson would win I guess I would take him over Boren. Unfortunately this seat is so red the only thing that kept it in Democratic hands in 2010 was incumbency advantage and the extremely weak GOP candidate. Now that Boren is retiring both of those advantages are gone (definitely the former, probably the latter) so even with Carson, I don't see how we keep this seat.  

            Also, I got to say, this site has changed. I just read a post By Markos that said  

            This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. One that recognizes that Democrats run from left to right on the ideological spectrum, and yet we're all still in this fight together.

            This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. One that recognizes that Democrats run from left to right on the ideological spectrum, and yet we're all still in this fight together.

            Liberal? Yeah, we're around here and we're proud. But it's not a liberal blog. It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory.

            Howard Dean was considered a centrist, Obama was considered a liberal. And embracing blue dogs. I don't think we would see this kind of post on DK today (for better or worse).

            •  Well (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              James Allen, MichaelNY, Odysseus

              There is a difference, at least according to DW-NOMINATE scores.

              107th: Carson -0.197 (rank 195) - 212 in Dem caucus at start of Congress

              108th: Carson -0.197 (rank 193) - 206 Dems

              109th: Boren -0.151 (rank 200) - 202 Dems

              110th: Boren -0.151 (rank 233) - 233 Dems

              111th: Boren -0.151 (rank 250) - 256 Dems

              Political Director, Daily Kos

              by David Nir on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:03:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Seems like a very modest difference (0+ / 0-)

                While I hope Carson can keep the seat, the DW scores, if I'm reading them correctly:

                Carson was in the bottom 5 percentile in earlier Congresses, where there were more "real" blue dogs.

                While Boren ranks somewhat lower, there are fewer blue dogs left in those more recent Congresses.

                "I hope; therefore, I can live."
                For SSP users, see my Tips for Swingnuts diary

                by tietack on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:55:18 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  No (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  James Allen, lordpet8, MichaelNY, Odysseus

                  There were a lot more Blue Dogs in Boren's congresses than Carson's, simply because there were a lot more Dems. Guys like Childers, Bright, etc. were elected when Boren was in office. There was pretty little changeover in the ranks of the most conservative Dems between 2000 and 2008, except to increase them.

                  The only congress with fewer Blue Dogs is this one, the 112th.

                  Political Director, Daily Kos

                  by David Nir on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:53:34 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Your first sentence is right, but... (9+ / 0-)

              ...what we should expect and demand from Democrats representing such conservative districts is simply not to knee-cap our own party rhetorically.  If you're going to do that, you shouldn't be a Democrat at all, just switch parties.  Otherwise, vote as conservatively as you have to in order to win, but make nice personally and rhetorically with everyone on your left.

              Reagan's 11th commandment about Republicans not speaking ill of each other was and is very correct, and is something too many Democrats don't respect in our own intraparty relations.

              43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

              by DCCyclone on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:05:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  This is exactly right (7+ / 0-)

                Boren never achieved Lieberman's prominence, but he was very much like Lieberman at heart. I'm willing to take the chance on an upgrade to Carson for that reason alone, even if Carson's voting record only winds up being minimally different from Boren's, as long as we get the kind of Carson we knew back in 2004. And anyhow, it's not like we have a choice here - assuming this report is correct, Boren's gone, end of story.

                Political Director, Daily Kos

                by David Nir on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:12:10 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Lieberman is an example this isn't ideological (5+ / 0-)

                  Lieberman isn't and never was a Blue Dog, he's quite liberal on most issues.  As it goes, he cares most about foreign policy and Israel, and he's pretty far to the right on those subjects, and that's what he chooses to crow about on national TV.  But he doesn't just say where he stands, he bashes his own party.  It's unusual for someone as overall liberal as Lieberman to do that, but that he does it illustrates that it's not about how conservative or moderate or liberal a Member is, it's how they talk about their own political family.

                  43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

                  by DCCyclone on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:36:18 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  The only other thing I expect from deep red (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                drobertson, gabjoh, MichaelNY, Matt Z

                state Dems is that they work to make the state & local parties stronger.

                "Intolerance is something which belongs to the religions we have rejected." - J.J. Rousseau -6.38, -4.15

                by James Allen on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:17:02 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Let me be clear (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY, andyroo312, Matt Z, Odysseus

                I'm not saying Carson isn't a nice guy (he seems to be), and I'm not saying Boren isn't an asshole sometimes (he is). But, unless I see polling that tells me otherwise, I believe Boren was the only person who could hold that seat. I would rather Boren there then a very right wing Republican so on the whole this looks like a net loss for Democrats.

              •  Boren was pretty good in that regard. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                He showed respect to leadership, and while he didn't support anything in the Dem agenda, he didn't go out of his way to make an asshat of himself on national TV.  He was a generally quiet dissenter, and didn't seek much attention outside his own district.

                I could live with a Boren.  He wasn't like a lot of other blue dogs who made a living being on TV bashing everything Democratic.

                GODSPEED TO THE WISCONSIN FOURTEEN!

                by LordMike on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:41:14 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Disagree (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Odysseus

                  He consistently bought into right-wing frames and as far as I know, he's never done anything to help rebuild the state party's fledgling infrastructure (definitely not a team player). He voted with us when the wind blew in our direction (I don't think he defected on any of Pelosi's "100 hours" bills) but you'll have to look long and hard to find a courageous vote from this guy.

                  The only nice thing I can say about Boren's record actually pertains to health care. Unlike the Jason Altmires of Congress who waffled and equivocated for months before ultimately voting no, Boren came out early and decisively against the bill. We knew where he stood and since he went without the games that other blue dogs played, his conservative constituents didn't have to  punish him for anything.

                  "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" I'm a Ralph Yarborough Democrat -8.25, -7.54

                  by dem4evr on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:21:11 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  That's exactly it. Couldn't have said it better. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DCCyclone
      •  The endorsement of endorsements! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Allen
        Brad Carson is also way cooler than Dan Boren.

        I wonder if the NRCC will soon make a statement on this. ;-)

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