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View Diary: F-16 crash - It had to happen. It will happen again. (99 comments)

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  •  Sorry jorogo... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    craiger, yaque, vets74

    As an Eagle Driver, I love to bang on the Viper as the next guy, but here you are totally wrong.

    just to train for the anticipated air-to-air combat which no F-16 has ever actually been engaged in? That's right - what the F-16 was designed primarily to do has never happened.

    I have seen it.  It may even be on YouTube by now, but it has been used in A/A.

    Now, comparing a combat aircraft to an airliner is just silly.  That is unless you know of any airliner low-level bomb runs at less than 500 feet.  I applaud your effort to advocate for a safer aircraft and hope it would never crash on your or my house, but I think you are a little on the overkill here.  Yes, combat and training for it is a dangerous business, but all risks cannot be taken out of the equation.

    If I wasn't a christian man, I'd be kicking yo ass! ~Daddy Rich

    by Dahankster on Wed Jun 08, 2011 at 09:33:36 PM PDT

    •  I'm asking for the risk (0+ / 0-)

      to be taken to an appropriate area.

      I've compared crash rates, which is material to crashes and the things that get crashed upon. I'm sorry you find that amusing, but I guess that fits with the charm of the military pilot, protecting our sorry civilian asses down here with all of your dangerous business.

      Please cite the a/a.

      "All war is stupid" - JFK

      by jorogo on Wed Jun 08, 2011 at 10:08:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        craiger, yaque

        I don't know where to begin.  A/A is shorthand for air-to-air.  Next, I don't find crashing and people dying amusing at all.  Next, I never said that I was charming, but if you find that I am...great.  Lastly, why do you assume that I do not have some areas where I agree with you?  I do not look down on you.  I do not consider myself a god looking down on mere mortals, but you have attributed that upon me.  I merely point out that it is a dangerous business, and there is a need to train to that.

        You could get the point across by comparing crash rates with other military aircraft, which would be more appropriate, IMHO.  The Viper is still well above average.

        If I wasn't a christian man, I'd be kicking yo ass! ~Daddy Rich

        by Dahankster on Wed Jun 08, 2011 at 10:24:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I get the acronym. (0+ / 0-)

          It's the rate comparison which you derided as "silly"; I didn't claim you found crashes amusing. It gets difficult to hold a conversation when one party to that conversation is having another conversation with their own imagination.

          Comparing military aircraft doesn't address the point of the hazards we're subjected to from civilian activity, as compared to military activity. Again, you're imposing your own personal interests on a very different conversation. Please have that discussion in your own diary about military aircraft comparisons.

          Your contention that there is a need to train, though there's room to differ on that, is another claim that misses the point that I'm trying to discuss here, and that's what need there is to do that training OVER MY HOME, in a populated area.

          Again - need to train at all - different diary. Get to work on that.

          "All war is stupid" - JFK

          by jorogo on Thu Jun 09, 2011 at 07:41:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Still waiting (0+ / 0-)

          on that a/a (that's air-to-air) citation.

          "All war is stupid" - JFK

          by jorogo on Thu Jun 09, 2011 at 08:03:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  How long has the air base been there? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        How long has your and most other developments been there?

        We had similar, though much less critical problems around here in recent years.  Seems a lot of land that used to be farms was developed for housing tracts.  A lot of housing.  A lot of expensive housing.  The trouble was, even though these folks bought houses on former farmland they didn't like the noise and smell coming from their neighbors.  Who were still (turkey) farmers.  They actually tried to get the farms shut down!  Had the judge any sense of humor, he'd have laughed them out of court.  Instead he told them to take a hike, and pay the farmers' attorney fees on the way out.

        The Founding Fathers were a bunch of East Coast liberals

        by ImaJoeBob on Wed Jun 08, 2011 at 11:11:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The airbase predates my arrival, (0+ / 0-)

          if that's what you're asking. But the aircraft used has changed since I started here.

          The previously used aircraft was safer, quieter, and has actually performed it's design function quite well.

          "All war is stupid" - JFK

          by jorogo on Thu Jun 09, 2011 at 07:24:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, THAT's different! (0+ / 0-)

            Why don't you just demand they go back to flying the Curtiss A-3 Falcon?

            Those will be even safer for everybody!

            GIve it up.  You bought a house near a military airbase.  You decided to live next to it, and should have known that the technology changes.  It's your own fault if you don't like it now.  

            You can always move.  Or do you think the Army should be forced to move an entire air wing because you don't like the noise? (give up the "danger" crap - you're completely transparent)

            The Founding Fathers were a bunch of East Coast liberals

            by ImaJoeBob on Thu Jun 09, 2011 at 11:18:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Tell that to the owners of the house, (0+ / 0-)

              of the shards of what was a house where there's now a crater.

              But first, read what they had to say:

              This was more than just an "empty home" was our vacation home where we spent holidays all year round. We have ten acres of woods on the property where we would take walks. Our children built forts out of twigs and every time we go we would check to see if any animals used it for shelter. My husband was headed up there with the kids this weekend....A call from the military would have been nice, nothing yet.
              -Becky Wesolowicz

              "All war is stupid" - JFK

              by jorogo on Fri Jun 10, 2011 at 10:33:13 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And I'll tell em... (0+ / 0-)

                You built it next to a freakin' air base!!!  You CHOSE to have your children "vacation" next to a freakin' air base!!!  You CHOSE to unwrap your Xmas gifts next to a freakin' air base!!!  You CHOSE to put yourselves and your children in an environment of known, increased danger.  Do you think you would have gotten those same ten acres for the same price if they weren't next to a freakin' air base???  If you don't like living next to a freakin' air base, then sell it!

                FIle your insurance claim and shut the hell up.

                The Founding Fathers were a bunch of East Coast liberals

                by ImaJoeBob on Wed Jun 15, 2011 at 06:52:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

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