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View Diary: Public Education's 'Shock Doctrine Summer' Rolls Out (171 comments)

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  •  Re. financing charters (0+ / 0-)
    What about places where public schools have closed because the school district can't afford to fund one anymore and they want to bus the kids to another community?

    This is the part I don't get.  If your school district is strapped for cash and closing schools, how can they afford to open a charter school?  And doesn't this argument imply that just wanting a school in your own neighborhood is a good enough reason to open a charter, even after the district has had to close such a school for lack of funds?

    If this is considered a reasonable argument for opening a charter, then why does one neighborhood get a school and not another?  If they all get schools, then how on earth is this affordable?

    •  I agree that this part is confusing. (0+ / 0-)

      Charters in CA are funded at 2/3rd ADA. So, when a charter school starts, they use the funding of their projected ADA to make their budget. If they can get kids to sign up for their school, they will have money coming in. And, yes, it means another public school in the district will lose students unless the charter is attracting students that aren't already enrolled in school (private school students, homeschool students, etc.)

      The one example that I have been using is occurring in CA right now. The school district has had to close a local elementary school because they can no longer afford to keep it open. They are going to bus the students to another school. The parents in the neighborhood fought the closing... they want to keep the school open, but no joy. So, a large group of those parents decided that the next best thing would be to start their own charter in the very same building that their kids have been attending school. They can manage it on 2/3rd ADA. Lets face it, this charter school is starting out of a sense of desperation. But these parents feel like they have few choices other than to bus their elementary age children. They like having a local elementary school and I can't say as I blame them. I would have been joined them in their fight.

      •   I don't think I'm confused (0+ / 0-)

        And  I think my questions are pretty logical.

        You have a school district facing budget deficits, and they decide to close a school. The new budget shows the lowered costs of maintaining that school, and they manage to balance the budget.  Then a charter school starts up for that neighborhood.  The charter pulls 2/3 of the revenue for those students out of the budget, leaving the district short on the revenue side even though they've cut costs on the expenditure side.

        So what happens next?  The public school faces further cuts, and the expectation has been set that if each neighborhood doesn't have its own school, those parents are should feel "desperate" about that and demand their own charters?

        I suppose at some point, if the public school is getting 1/3 of the money for all the students no longer attending it, and the charters become numerous enough, the public schools could become quite posh, but I don't exactly see that happening.

        And I'm curious as to how the charters can operate happily on 2/3 the budget previously needed to educate those kids.  Is there a conscious tradeoff that parents are making that they would rather have an under-equipped school in the neighborhood than a fully-equipped school in the district?  Are they busting teachers' unions and cutting salaries and benefits?  How exactly does this happen?

        •  Charters that I'm familiar with... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          angelajean

          typically pay their teachers less with less benefits.  They have less administrative staff than conventional schools and pay less for janitorial and groundskeeping services.  They tend to be much simpler, "back to basics" operation than a conventional public school.  

          This can be for better or for worse of course, but the charter schools I have been involved or familiar with tend to have an energy that I have not seen in most conventional schools that I've entered.  Often its the energy of the founder(s), present on the staff, exuding their educational vision.  Not simply worker-bees following district directives, but folks with real "ownership".

          Cooper Zale Los Angeles http://www.leftyparent.com

          by leftyparent on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 09:50:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm sorry I implied you were confused. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Linda Wood

          It was a poor choice of words.

          And you understand how it works. You don't like the system. I'm not sure I can ever convince you that in some circumstances, charters are the best solution out there.

          I will continue to work towards understanding the entire public school system better and see if I change my mind but I highly doubt I will on this one. I am for any school that gets us back to local communities making decisions and in the few times we've chosen to use public schools, charter schools have been the best option for my family.

          I will continue to argue that all families should be given the options of a great a school in their neighborhood - be it a traditional public school or charter school. I think having that small, local school within walking distance is too much to ask parents to give up... in any community. Better that we make all of those small schools successful than keep pushing more and more neighborhoods to abandon their local schools and move to the mega school down the road.

          Trust me, if a small public school exists and serves it's local community well, I would fight to keep it as well.

          •  If your community can afford it (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            angelajean

            then sure, I'd support a public school within 1 mile of every student's house.  (possibly less in areas where 1 mile isn't walkable due to bad weather.) I'm assuming that these schools can be funded to pay the teachers and other workers there decent wages and benefits, and the school has enough money to be supplied with the things they need to run well.

            I just don't think this is the situation in many communities today, or that school reform is necessarily a priority in such rich communities, since they seem to be doing pretty well for themselves.  But if you happen to live in such a place, and the community agrees t pay for that, I have no problem with it.

            And now we're talking "neighborhood" schools again, rather than charter schools...or whatever we plan to call them if we're not talking charters anymore.  Maybe it would be interesting to discuss a list of what we consider acceptable reasons to demand a new school -  proximity, special educational needs, ....other?  I guess my feeling is that we'd have to prioritize the list, because nobody can really afford everything we'd like to do for education.

            •  A prioritized list sounds like a good idea. (0+ / 0-)

              Have you seen the list of demands from the Save Our School march this July? It's probably a great place to start:

              For the future of our children, we demand:

              Equitable funding for all public school communities

              Equitable funding across all public schools and school systems
              Full public funding of family and community support services
              Full funding for 21st century school and neighborhood libraries
              An end to economically and racially re-segregated schools
              An end to high stakes testing used for the purpose of student, teacher, and school evaluation

              The use of multiple and varied assessments to evaluate students, teachers, and schools
              An end pay per test performance for teachers and administrators
              An end to public school closures based upon test performance
              Teacher, family and community leadership in forming public education policies

              Educator and civic community leadership in drafting new ESEA legislation
              Federal support for local school programs free of punitive and competitive funding
              An end to political and corporate control of curriculum, instruction and assessment decisions for teachers and administrators
              Curriculum developed for and by local school communities

              Support for teacher and student access to a wide-range of instructional programs and technologies
              Well-rounded education that develops every student’s intellectual, creative, and physical potential
              Opportunities for multicultural/multilingual curriculum for all students
              Small class sizes that foster caring, democratic learning communities

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