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  •  No, Gooserock (11+ / 0-)

    Perhaps my meaning is not clear. The expression of "disappointment" by these people I feel is patronizing. Disagree with his policies, what he has or has not done. But this tut tut tutting comes off as Father Knows Best.

    I have never heard anyone express "disappointment" in a president before. And like I said, maybe it's me as a AA baby who has heard and seen this act before. I've heard too many high profile liberals embrace this framing. And I'm not sure why.  Particularly when Wallace asked Stewart, I had a physical reaction to it. It was like he was saying "but you are still one of us, right?"

    We are not to goose step (oops!) to Obama, but I do think that there are times that the "disappointment" and "failure" that I see coming from the left is harsher that I remember in the past.

    Never underestimate the ability of the Right to over reach.

    by never forget 2000 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 08:14:41 PM PDT

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    •  asdf (8+ / 0-)
      I have never heard anyone express "disappointment" in a president before.


    •  Really? (6+ / 0-)
      I have never heard anyone express "disappointment" in a president before.

      Well, you obviously weren't aware of the gut wrenching disappointment gay people felt when President Clinton signed off on DOMA. He didn't have to sign it - he could just have let it become law. But that adulterous cad went ahead with a flourish and stabbed some of his strongest supporters in the back. And we were very vocal about our disappointment. Many of us have never forgiven him.

      Just another faggity fag socialist fuckstick homosinner!

      by Ian S on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 08:40:03 PM PDT

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    •  There's something to what you say, (4+ / 0-)

      and some of it involves the judging of the only AA President by the white (for a while yet) majority, but the simple truth is that ideologues will never be satisfied unless and until their agenda is enacted, and woe be unto s/he who gets elected with the ideologues support and doesn't deliver. In short, he'd be getting the same crap if both his parents had been white.
      I'm about an -8.00, -8.00 on all those socio-political orientation scales folks like to flaunt in their sig lines, most of the time I can't figure out why, but a long time ago I learned that everybody else wasn't yet where I am, and learned to settle for the best that I could get - even if that's never quite happened.
      I've learned that my politics are at best only informed by my ideology; ideological purity is for folks who are at heart fundamentally un and anti democratic. They have no doubt that imposing their notions on others is the right thing to do.

      Cornplanter, can you swim? Peter LaFarge

      by DaNang65 on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 08:42:22 PM PDT

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    •  this is interesting (4+ / 0-)
      I have never heard anyone express "disappointment" in a president before.

      I guess you never came to my house during the Clinton years. Or the Reagan years. Or either of the Bush years.

      Out of curiosity, were you old enough and tuned in to politics during the Clinton years? Your comment would make sense if the answer to one of those was "no."

      But really, many people of the stripe you see around here were deeply disappointed in Clinton. And outspoken about it. I was so disgusted I couldn't vote for him a second time (I live in a state where my vote for prez doesn't matter).

      Here I am! I'm up here! Where are you? - the Red-eyed Vireo

      by mightymouse on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 09:33:09 PM PDT

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    •  I think you're right on target. (4+ / 0-)

      I think the Republican Plutocrat Spinmeisters have come up with "disappointment" as an emotional meme-virus, to try to eviscerate "hope" which was Obama's emotional meme-virus in 2008.

      We need a counter-meme, for which I would propose something like "determination" or "resoluteness" or something along those lines.

      It's all about the emotional narratives.  Emotional narratives determine outcomes.  We need to find the right meme for the emotional narrative that will bring victory in 2012.

      Otherwise the next Supreme Court justice will be chosen by Mitt Romney or someone equally loathsome.  

    •  Crap (7+ / 0-)

      I was disappointed with Johnson over the Viet Nam War

      I was disappointed with Nixon over Watergate

      I was disappointed with Gerry Ford for pardoning Nixon

      I was disappointed with Jimmy Carter for losing to Reagan

      I was disappointed with Reagan just for being elected, but maybe it was more that I was disappointed that people had actually elected an actor.  I was horrified at his lack of interest in dealing with AIDS and also at the huge increase in homeless people on the streets of New York during his presidency.

      I was disappointed with the first Bush mostly because I was tired of Reagan

      I was disappointed with Clinton because of the Lewinsky mess

      I was disappointed with the second Bush... he was so much more spectacularly bad than I even thought I would be on election night in 2000

      I don't think it's that unusual to be disappointed in the President - any President.  No one person can perform that job perfectly.  It's the nature of the job that you are going to disappoint a huge number of people with every decision you make.

      Frankly, I think that Mr. Gore, and the momentum he had built for doing something substantial about climate change has been pretty much marginalized by President Obama and I would be extremely surprised to discover that Mr. Gore wasn't disappointed.  

      You hear about crazy, but it's rarer than you think. -Jon Stewart 1/10/2011

      by lcork on Sat Jun 25, 2011 at 10:10:54 PM PDT

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      •  Mr. Gore is not the climate change God (4+ / 0-)

        he put a film out , one that yes, raised awareness, but also made him lots and lots of money. I am disappointed in Mr. Gore for expressing dissappointment in this President for not doing enough for climate change. It is not like he was just sitting around the White House shooting hoops and not trying to make this a better world.
        I am also growing tired of the press labeling Afghanistan "Obama's war". I am a bit disappointed that our President doesn't use the bully pulpit to get out there and state the facts, to tell people what they need to be told. We all know the country is sick of war, and it is draining our treasury, but when this President was sworn into office the Afghanistan war was already entering it's  8th year, and the mission was failing, we were not succeeding and we had not caught or killed Bin Laden. While running he promised to committ more troops to Afghanistan so we could succeed, and he also promised to go after Bin Laden. When he committed the extra "surge" troops, he also promised to start bringing them home this July, and besides killing Bin Laden that is what he is doing.
        I am not in the least disappointed with this President, I think he has been the best President in my lifetime, (I will be 66 in December). That doesn't mean I don't have some issues with some of his policies, but I do understand that promising to do it all, and actually delivering with an opposition party who was not interested in moving the country forward, but rather interested in making this President fail is not an easy task. Having said that, he still accomplished much of what he promised, and faced the opposition with a tolerence that I have never seen before. . I will be voting for Barack Obama in 2012, and if they change the Constitution and he gets to run for a third term I would vote for him in 2016 too. When the majority of those in Congress get off the payrolls of large corporations, then we will have real climate change until then they will block every opportunity to effect that kind of change. The problem is not with this President, but with the Congress, nad that is who Mr. Gore should have targeted with his disappointment. Buth then again, Mr. Gore spent lots of time in Congress, and some of those under corporate control are his "good friends". Perhaps he should express his disappointment with them as well.

        •  My point was about (0+ / 0-)

          how disappointing Presidents can be and have been.  All of them.

          It's not a dog-whistle to say so about this President because it's not something that is unique to this President.  

          Apparently you're disappointed with the President yourself... except that you make a distinction between being "a bit disappointed" and being "not in the least disappointed"  I'm not sure how to interpret that, but if it works for you that's really a wonderful thing, I'm sure.  It certainly gives you the flexibility to argue both sides of the argument whenever you like, even in the same comment, although not in the same paragraph I notice.

          Personally, I think the President is doing the best he can, which is all anyone can really do.  Sometimes getting stuff done involves disappointing a certain percentage of the population.  That's true for all of us, not just the POTUS.  So to me, it's a little more weird when people claim not to be disappointed from time to time, or about anything at all.  I find myself wondering if they have been paying attention, because even your soul-mate is not going to be un-disappointing 100% of the time, and President Obama ran for POTUS, not Soul-Mate-In-Chief.

          I voted for the guy I thought would do the best job, not the guy I believed would do a perfect job.  Am I disappointed from time to time at the way he does his job, and the things he chooses to focus his time on?  Hell yeah.  Am I surprised by that?  Hell no.  It's pretty much what I expect, even from someone I voted for.  

          As for being the best President in my lifetime, we'll see.  He's not done with his term in office and I'm not dead yet.  There are a lot of interesting people for 2016, and I would be most interested in seeing what would come of a presidency of any number of great Democrats like

          Kirsten Gilibrand
          Cory Booker
          Van Jones
          Sheldon Whitehouse
          Russ Feingold
          Sherrod Brown
          Brian Schweitzer
          Andrew Cuomo

          among others.

          I think we have an incredible field of potential candidates, so there is no reason to fantasize over changing the term limitations for the President.  I would be more concerned with taking back the House and beefing up the number of Democrats in the Senate so that President Obama can govern in his second term like a guy who doesn't have to worry about being re-elected.  

          That's the beauty of term limits, assuming you don't have the kind of obstructionism from the legislative branch.  When you no longer have re-election hanging over your head, you can shoot for the moon.  I think that the people who are all worried about being disappointed, or worried that other people are expressing their disappointment in the President would be better served spending their time thinking about what they can do to help elect more and better Democrats to the House & Senate, so that President Obama can do more of what he went to Washington to do.

          You hear about crazy, but it's rarer than you think. -Jon Stewart 1/10/2011

          by lcork on Sun Jun 26, 2011 at 09:54:53 AM PDT

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          •  My disappointment is not in this President, but (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            never forget 2000, lcork

            the fact that when he gets criticism about this war, the war the media has now labeled "Obama's war", has lasted 10 years, I am disappointed that he doesn't come back and say, "yes, it has lasted 10 years but almost 8 of those years was before I was President, and I am trying to end it now, but doing it right." That is exactly what I would say, but I do understand I am not a diplomat or a Political Candidate, so he has to weigh his words carefully. Not real disappointment at all, just a poor use of words on my part.

            •  Bravo (0+ / 0-)

              I love how you got the "I'm not disappointed, I am disappointed" worked into a single sentence.  You're still a little weak on the accepting that is really how you feel, but just embrace it.  You'll feel much better, I promise.

              Life is full of people who don't quite live up to our expectations - starting with our parents and ourselves and including pretty much everyone we ever know or admire.  Nobody escapes either being disappointed or being disappointing, no matter how good they are and no matter how hard they try.  All we can do as human beings is understand and accept that and not get stuck in astonished outrage and feelings of betrayal when it inevitably happens. Because the reality is, if we didn't still admire and believe in them, we wouldn't be disappointed, we'd be done with them.

              The only way the POTUS would always handle things the way you think they should be handled would be for you to be the POTUS, and even then, you would disappoint yourself by not being able to do all you feel you should be able to do.  Imagine what hopes and dreams President Obama had for his time in office, versus the reality he has to work with.  They're very different, I'm sure.  Just as all of our lives tend to be.

              Rather than thinking about the huge debt of disappointment he's racked up with everyone who voted for him, I think it would be more constructive for those who wish he had accomplished more or differently to work on giving him better tools to work with - namely a majority in the House of Representatives and a super majority in the Senate.  Given an undivided government and a second term in office, I think we would see a lot more of what he talked about in his campaign.  Even then, don't expect that there won't be some disappointment.  The President, like all of us, is a human being not a super-hero.

              You hear about crazy, but it's rarer than you think. -Jon Stewart 1/10/2011

              by lcork on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 06:41:16 AM PDT

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              •  I think maybe disappointment is the wrong word (0+ / 0-)

                here. I think it is a bit condescending to be disappointed in people. It is like you are saying, these are my expectations, and you didn't meet them. As if your expectations are all important. The more I think about it, I think frustration is a better word. I am at times frustrated that the President doesn't just tell folks, this is not his war, he didn't start it and it was going on for almost 8 years when he took office, because the last President badly managed it. Rather than fight the terrorists in Afghanistan/Pakistan, he (Bush) decided to use our resources to invade Iraq and turn that country upside down, he gave up on bringing Bin Laden to justice, and Obama didn't.
                I hate that we are still in Afghanistan too, but it is not as easy to get out as it was to get in. We are dealing with so many variables over there, a corrupt government, a Nuclear Pakistan, and an unsettled nuclear Pakistan at that. I really beleive this President cares about removing our troops safely, he is not a heartless S.O.B. like Bush and Cheney who pretended to care, but looked at them as expendable. These wars drained our treasury, and Bush hid the expense of them. I just don't understand why the President is being so kind to the Bush administration, nor do I understand why anyone would have wanted to be President right after they left this country in such a mess. President Obama stepped up to the plate, I think he welcomed the challange, after the 2008 election the mood of the people was they wanted bi-partisan solutions to our problems. I think he beleived he could work on these solutions an bring our country together, that didn't happen, because from the day he was sworn in the opposition lead by Rush Limbaugh wanted him to fail, because they were afraid if he succeeded it would be years before the Republicans could grab back the White house. I am not one who thinks race played a primary role in this opposition, but some on the right used that too as a tool to defeat this President and his agenda. The whole situation makes me sick to my stomach. I beleive with all my heart that Barack Obama is a good man, a caring man, one who if given the opportunity will really make positive changes, the problem I see is that the system is too corrupt for a decent person to make changes. Just look at health care reform, who could be against insuring that all Americans had affordable health care? Who takes pleasure in knowing people who can not afford health care will die and die a miserable death, but there is a segement of the population that thinks TFB, I got mine so the hell with you if you can not get the same.. That is pathetic and makes me very sad to know people hate so much. Today, I am on Medicare, but while the HCR debate was  going on, I wasn't. I was in that age group that health insurance was through the roof, paying over $600. per month for health coverage, and also paying a co-pay. Finally we could no longer afford it, it is not as if I was a slacker and didn't contribute to the system, I did for many years, but the system let me down in order to allow insurance companies to make huge profits. Now that I have Medicare, I simply can not understand why everyone doesn't have it. I hardly use it, but the peace of mind it offers to know I have it if I need it is comforting. Everyone should have the same. I think with all the opposition this President got us the best deal he could, and there are people today that have health care that would not have had it if nothing at all was done. And for that he is being persecuted, not only by the right, but also by the left. That is just not right. No other President was able to accomplish even that, with the exception of Johnson and Medicare. So I will remain frustrated, not disappointed.

    •  well (0+ / 0-)

      so, now expressing disappointment is racist because it is too tut-tutting, and going the other direction and vehemently decrying Obama's bad policies is also racist.  So, what's left?

      What we find here is in fact a totally different dog-whistle that suggests than any criticism from white people must be racists, because, well, they are white.  There is a dog whistle in action here, but it isn't the one yyou are talking about.

      -7.79, -7.75 Gosh!

      by Mindful Nature on Sun Jun 26, 2011 at 09:08:45 AM PDT

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