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View Diary: Prosser vs Bradley: Investigations Go Forth (211 comments)

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  •  I'd think everyone should be able to agree (6+ / 0-)

    that whichever justice attacked should resign ASAP.  Hopefully the Dane County investigation will bring the facts to light.

    •  I find it highly unlikely that a woman would (8+ / 0-)

      try to physically attack a man, or in this case, an asshole.

      But I have been wrong before.

      Measure twice, cut three times, repeat as necessary.

      by SpiffPeters on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 04:43:45 PM PDT

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      •  We'll see. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AnnieR, Lujane, DollyMadison, David PA

        It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he was the attacker, but we just don't have much in the way of facts.

        If we've learned anything from the Weiner saga, it's that we should be cautious when we don't have the relevant set of facts.

      •  It happens. (0+ / 0-)

        Some of the flash mobs in Chicago have started with attacks of men by teenage girls.

        •  What? This is a crazy assertion! nt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          3goldens
        •  note: "teen aged girls", not a middle aged woman (3+ / 0-)

          with a law degree and several years serving on the bench.

          HylasBrook @62 - fiesty, fiery, and fierce

          by HylasBrook on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 05:59:14 PM PDT

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          •  Have you seen her history re: Prosser? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bluesteele31

            She has had it in for him for a long time.

            He's a real tool, and he's pissed her off over and over again with his disgusting, disrespectful behavior. Months ago she sent emails to colleagues, saying that she'd had it with him, and she just didn't have any good way to interact with him any more since he was such a jerk.

            Then, in this event, she told him to leave her office, and apparently he didn't do so. She was already fed up with him, and then he enraged her enough by making disrespectful remarks towards another female justice that she demand that he leave her office that she came at him with her fists raised.

            She easily could have changed the interaction from being one that was solely verbal to being one where she was perceived as a physical threat by him. In fact, that's what the evidence shows us from every eyewitness! She approached him after she told him to leave her office.

            Now, the question is did he reach out to hurt her, or did he reach out to defend himself? The evidence from the eyewitnesses tells us that he was defending himself. If he was, he gets to use reasonable and proportional force necessary to repel the perceived threat. Did he do that, or did he overdo it? Well, it sounds like she had no marks. Based upon the eyewitness testimony, she was told when she claimed that she'd been choked that she was exaggerating. They say that there was no pressure, yet she claims that she was held in a chokehold, which, by definition, has significant force and squeezing behind it!

            •  Dolly, I'm not suggesting you're mistaken, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              David PA, HylasBrook

              but you've posted multiple times now that all of the witnesses say there was no choking involved, yet you've provided no link. Could you please do so?

              To all those who whine, "But, look what happened in Wisconsin," I say, "Look what is HAPPENING in Wisconsin!"

              by WisePiper on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 10:50:17 PM PDT

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              •  I have repeatedly provided the links (0+ / 0-)

                But here it is again.

                The conversation grew heated, and Bradley asked Prosser to leave. Bradley was bothered by disparaging remarks Prosser had made about Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson, a source said.

                Bradley felt Prosser "was attacking the chief justice," the source said.

                Before leaving, Prosser "put his hands around her neck in what (Bradley) described as a chokehold," the source said.

                "He did not exert any pressure, but his hands were around her neck," the source said.

                The source said the act "was in no way playful."

                But another source told the Journal Sentinel that Bradley attacked Prosser.

                "She charged him with fists raised," the source said.

                Prosser "put his hands in a defensive posture," the source said. "He blocked her."

                In doing so, the source said, he made contact with Bradley's neck.

                So, even the first source is relaying Bradley's position, and isn't saying that she was actually choked. A chokehold involves force, and squeezing, but there's no evidence except Bradley's own claim that any force was ever applied to her neck.

                I suspect that the front of her throat was hit by his thumbs, and if you've ever accidentally been hit there, you know that you don't have to be hit very hard for it to hurt. But if he was trying to fend off her approach because he perceived her "charge" as an attack, then he might have hurt her.

                Now again, he's a jerk and an asshole, but that doesn't mean that there's any evidence to support Justice's Bradley's assertions. Even that first version could be preceded by her approaching Prosser with raised fists.

                •  Yes, I saw that link. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  David PA, HylasBrook

                  I was asking for link documentation that NONE of the witnesses (four?) believed Prosser was choking her, as you asserted upthread.

                  To all those who whine, "But, look what happened in Wisconsin," I say, "Look what is HAPPENING in Wisconsin!"

                  by WisePiper on Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 12:26:55 AM PDT

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                  •  Read the link (0+ / 0-)

                    There are no witnesses who state that, by their own statements, she was choked.

                    Where did I say what you claim I said?

                    Show me one link that has any witness say that she was choked.

                    •  You wrote upthread: (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      HylasBrook
                      There's only the statement of the justice involved. All the other, non-involved justices who were in the room say that no choking happened. They all say that there was no chokehold, that there was no squeezing, that there was no pressure, and that it only happened after she charged at him with her fists raised.

                      I've reread the link you've posted. Though it's unclear as to whether there are two or three sources, and whether or not these anonymous sources are the actual non-involved justices, there's clearly no basis at this point for you to declare

                      All the other, non-involved justices who were in the room say that no choking happened.

                      Seems to me you're engaging in the same reportorial sloppiness you're accusing others of.

                      To all those who whine, "But, look what happened in Wisconsin," I say, "Look what is HAPPENING in Wisconsin!"

                      by WisePiper on Tue Jun 28, 2011 at 02:50:12 AM PDT

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                      •  Heck, it's not my problem anymore (0+ / 0-)

                        Clearly you can't read and interpret things well.

                        There are no sources for this story that say that she was choked.

                        And guess what? Apparently, even she has admitted that she wasn't choked.

                        According to one witness, Bradley charged toward Prosser, shaking her clenched fist in his face. Another source says they were “literally nose to nose.” Prosser then put his hands up to push her away. As one source pointed out, if a man wants to push a woman who is facing him, he wouldn’t push her in the chest (unless he wants to face an entirely different criminal charge). Consequently, Prosser put his hands on Bradley’s shoulders to push her away, and in doing so, made contact with her neck.

                        At that moment, another justice approached Bradley from behind and pulled her away from Prosser, saying, “Stop it, Ann, this isn’t like you.” Bradley then shouted, “I was choked!” Another justice present replied, “You were not choked.” In a statement following the incident, Bradley maintained Prosser “put his hands around my neck in anger in a chokehold.”

                        On Monday night, Bradley called Capitol Police Chief Charles Tubbs to talk to him about the incident. On the morning of Wednesday, June 15, Tubbs joined the justices in a closed-door meeting, where he discussed “issues relating to workplace violence.”

                        During the meeting, Chief Justice Abrahamson actually reenacted the incident on Chief Tubbs — no doubt an amusing sight, as the diminutive Abrahamson mimicked choking the tall, portly police chief. During her demonstration, Abrahamson emphasized that Prosser had exerted “pressure” on Bradley’s throat.

                        “There was no pressure,” interrupted the justice who had initially broken up the incident between Bradley and Prosser. “That’s only because you broke us apart,” shot back Bradley. This exchange led several meeting attendees to believe Bradley was making up the charge, as they took her rejoinder as an admission that there was no pressure applied to her neck.

                        Imagine that - I was right, you were wrong.

      •  She may have a very corrosive neck! (6+ / 0-)

        Maybe she was planning to grate him to death!

        To protect the Latino "community of interest" in redistricting Orange County, Santa Ana, eastern Garden Grove, and central Anaheim must be in the same legislative districts.

        by Seneca Doane on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 05:13:14 PM PDT

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      •  Actually - (according to true crime shows) - (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Empower Ink, litho, TofG, AnnieR, Lujane

        a common excuse by a man who's strangled his wife or his girlfriend is "she attacked me & I had to defend myself" - this about a woman 1/2 his size.

        HylasBrook @62 - fiesty, fiery, and fierce

        by HylasBrook on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 05:57:49 PM PDT

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      •  You don't think the fairer sex is capable (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DollyMadison

        of rage and violence? Very chivalrous of you.  

        Preemptive war is like committing suicide for fear of death

        by thestructureguy on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 07:49:07 PM PDT

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    •  Yeah, that's what bugs me (19+ / 0-)

      See, if I'm at work and someone starts some shit with me - but doesn't put his or her hands on me - and I fucking choke them or even put my hands on them, I'm disciplined, probably fired.  

      Doesn't matter one iota what the other person was doing if s/he wasn't touching me or threatening me any harm.

      I don't care what happened - you don't physically attack someone who is not attacking you, ever.

      Prosser's of the "she ran into my fist" variety.  If only the stupid bitch would bow down to me, I wouldn't have to choke the living shit out of her.

      Asshole.

      Why is it that a 3% tax increase for the wealthy is considered "socialism" and an 8% wage cut for the middle class is "doing your part"? MartyM

      by delphine on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 04:44:18 PM PDT

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    •  Justice Bradley (10+ / 0-)

      is an elderly woman.  Prosser, on the other hand, is a mean bully with a history of this crap.

      He'll never resign and the Republican Legislature won't force him out.

      There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

      by Puddytat on Mon Jun 27, 2011 at 04:44:46 PM PDT

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