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View Diary: UPDATE- Dingbat Senator Wants Gaza Flotilla Attacked by US Special Forces (618 comments)

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  •  I've made it clear to you (and by implication)... (8+ / 0-)

    ...in my comment here that the "Hezbollah nukes" is, in my view, laid to rest. I have made it clear that I will view negatively any future get-out-of-America sentiment directed toward you.

    You did not use the word "all," but that was the clear context.

    My "issue" here is that when someone makes an accusation of anti-Arab bigotry, or anti-semitism, or being supporters of the killing of civilians (or of torture, ethnic cleansing, terrorism, etc.), they should back it up with clear-cut examples.

    Call that "nonsense" if you like, but that is what is required; otherwise such accusations stink whoever levels them.

    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 10:02:46 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  no (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fire bad tree pretty

      It was not "the clear context". That is YOUR misreading. But thanks for acknowledging that it was you who used the word "all" and not me.

      Further in that same comment I wrote:

      Have you thought about why it is that Israel's supporters can voice support for violence (Cast Lead) openly even as Israel is ethnic cleansing Palestinians from their homes, and has a racist right wing government in power?

      In my view, the "clear cut context" here is to call into question the uneven way that support for militarism and violence is treated. The comment does not accuse all of Israel's supporters of doing anything. It really isn't my problem that you are predisposed to reading what I write through a biased Team Shalom lens, now is it?

      Now I can dig through thousands of comments on an unusable search engine to prove what we all already know: Cast Lead was widely defended on this website as necessary by supporters of Israel. That's not a revelation. And it's not a revelation that as an Arab, I view Cast Lead as a campaign of violence meant to punish Arab civilians by destroying their livelihoods. In fact, I've been making this argument, that Cast Lead was defended on this website by Israel's supporters, since Cast Lead itself. Because it was.

      Yes, I'm calling what you're doing here nonsense.
      Good night.

    •  I would ask the same be extended to Corwin (6+ / 0-)

      who has also provided an apology.

      The issue of his remark should be "laid to rest" as well.

      "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

      by JNEREBEL on Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 10:28:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      litho, Fire bad tree pretty, poco

      warning, Meteor Blades. For the benefit of all:

      Warning from Admin at 2011-07-03 01:46:20

      Unless you back up with SPECIFIC and CLEARCUT evidence - that is, links - any future claims in your comments that Team Shalom as a group or individuals in it have SUPPORTED the killing of civilians, I will lift your posting privileges.  As prevalent as you say it was, this linkage should not be hard to accomplish.

      I never made the claim that Team Shalom as a group or individuals have supported the killing of civilians. Where did I say that? Re-read my comment and please read it carefully. I said supporters of Israel. So you need to seriously check your bias. Why was I warned for something I didn't say, eh?

      You want evidence that supporters of Israel rationalized and defended Cast Lead, a war which destroyed Gaza's infrastructure and killed more than 1400 civilians?
      Here you go:

      Corwin Weber arguing that the use of white phosphorus is a-ok (and a bonus, down that thread he uses the racist term "pallywood"). Of course that sort of thing is acceptable here, eh MB?

      And here is charliehall "strongly supporting Cast Lead".

      And here is Mets102 rationalizing Cast Lead.

      A lovely comment from RussellNewYork

      And mikemoud huckmadenijad saying "But I'm not going to blame Israel when civilians get killed"

      Full support for Cast Lead as "getting the job done" by unfounded

      The banned Ambrose saying he's a staunch supporter of Israel's violence in Gaza

      More support for violence from RussellNewYork

      Now if you were a serious moderator you'd apologize for your distortion of what I wrote. And you'd recognize that those who rationalize violence and war by default lend their support to the murder of civilians. As an anti-war activist, one would think you might get that? Or is it only violence that is pro-Israel that you excuse and defend?

      Yeah, whatever MB.

      •  Based on those links (3+ / 0-)

        Meteor Blades clearly and unequivocally owes you an apology.

        Your comment was a fully accurate description of the reaction of "Israel's supporters, even here" to Operation Cast Lead, and more generally to Israel's use of lethal force against civilians.

        I'm shocked that MB even gave you the warning.  What universe is he living in to not understand what the issues are in the I/P debate?

        Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
        ¡Boycott Arizona!

        by litho on Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 06:36:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Agreed (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          litho, sortalikenathan, blueness, poco

          One would think that something so commonly known would not need to be referenced but apparently it does. I've also responded with a comment where I provided substantiation for quite a few regulars who support the seige of Gaza as well as support for Cast Lead. What is really interesting though is why the users who support Israeli violence should be so offended when their support is pointed out to them. Don't people remember their positions or the comments they make?

          •  The point of referencing is... (6+ / 0-)

            ...that one of the issues in the I/P diaries a constant litany of I-never-said-that-you-did-so-I-did-not. Asking for examples proving someone did or did not say what is being claimed is not nonsense, as it has been characterized. It is what is done all the time across the board.

            There is also a constant barrage of dog-whistles (including the actual use of the word "dog" in reference to Arabs). Typically, the response to such dog-whistles is to laugh them off or call them metaphors or say the complainers are willfully misinterpreting when these are directed at the side one disagrees with and having a holy conniption when they are directed at oneself or those one agrees with or identifies with.

            If those two aspects of discussion here — they are not the only ones, to be sure — could be brought under control, it might (I am not a pollyanna) lower the level of toxicity.

            Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

            by Meteor Blades on Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 10:40:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I distorted nothing... (1+ / 0-)

        ...I said you made accusations against users here without backing them up.

        Here is your comment that sparked my comments (and ultimately my warning) to you:

        ...since Israel's supporters, even here, fully support the IDF's violence against Arab civilians ...

        What does "even here" refer to? Who ARE Israel's supporters here?

        I asked you twice to back up what you said with links. You publicly refused and said there was no need. That is what generated the warning.

        Now you have produced the links that I asked for in the first place. Which, had you done so in the first place, or after my two requests that you do so, not generated a warning.

        The proviso about making accusations without backing them up applies to everyone, not just you and not just one side.

        Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Sun Jul 03, 2011 at 10:17:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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