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View Diary: Obama focuses on spending cuts, closing tax loopholes in weekly address (170 comments)

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  •  what's crazy (9+ / 0-)

    is that deficit spending is how you get out of a deep recession. it's called keynesianism. it works. worrying about the deficit during a struggling recovery is a recipe for 1937 all over again. as many predicted.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 08:16:20 AM PDT

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    •  Did I suggest we cut spending now? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      satrap

      I'm quite sure I didn't. And I'm quite familiar with kenesyian economics, thanks.

      As I said, the address is not a policy statement, first of all.

      But more importantly, there nothing anti-kenesyian abound finding waste and cutting it, even when there's a recession. If you are spending $236/month for Verizon when you could be spending $215/month for the same service, you ought to save yourself $21 bucks a month. Then you can use it to take your kids out for pizza once a month, as a treat.

      If there are areas where we can reduce expenditure without damaging the services provided, we ought to take a look at them. For example, we've saved over 30 billion dollars so far jusy by ferreting out and prosecuting medicare fraud. Thats 30 billion dollars! Would be nice to use it to fund a jobs program or extend unemployment benefits. This is a good example of finding waste.
      And we ought also to raise revenue by taxing those who should be paying more. We can and should do both.

      I think theproblem is that when liberals hear 'cut spending' most immediately think of the GOP definition of such. No EPA. No Medicaid. No planned parenthood. No money for public employees.

      It doesn't have to mean that. And it's time. We stop conceding that talking point. There are sensible ways to reduce spending without hurting people. The GOP's dominance of the discussion hurts everybody because they make it like it's 'cut 2 trillion dollars or we're doomed' and there are sensible ways to make sure we're spending efficiently and optimally and that doesn't have to mean critical services are stripped and/or underfunded. It just doesn't.

      We need to not concede the point.

      •  Sounds Subjective (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laurence Lewis
        "...and that doesn't have to mean critical services are stripped and/or underfunded. "

        Please let me know when that DOESN'T happen as part of the deficit reduction.

        If I was a communist, rich men would fear me...And the opposite applies. The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

        by stewarjt on Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 08:46:07 AM PDT

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      •  the entire framing is wrong (8+ / 0-)

        we shouldn't even be discussing the deficit. we should be discussing further stimulus, and that we can worry about the deficit later. we don't concede anything if we point out that the republicans have no credibility on deficits to begin with.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 08:46:14 AM PDT

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        •  I couldn't agree with you more. (0+ / 0-)

          but it is what it is, isn't it?

          Look, we could barely squeak out 800 billion in 2009. We're not getting a stimulus in 2011.

          So the question is, what to do?

          I think the idea of raising taxes on the wealthy (generating revenue) is a good place to start. It would be as good as a stimulus, or better, dollar for dollar. So there's your stimulus.

          But politically, you and I both know that this deficit talk is the reality. So what's the best way to deal with it politically? IMO the best way is to find waste and eliminate or reduce it. It will cut spending. But not in the way the GOP means when they say cut spending. Politically it's smart and thats all we have right now with regard to answers to the 'deficit talk'. We aren't going to make the talk go away. And we're not going to convince brainwashed Americans that it doesn't matter. Don't get me wrong. but the fact is it's going to be part of the conversation. So dealing effectively with it is politically necessary.

          •  the deficit talk is reality (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            stewarjt, mdmslle, BradyB, psyched, Lucy2009

            just as bush's war on terra was a reality. that doesn't mean we accept it.

            obama was wrong to appoint the catfood commission. that was buying into a gop framing from the start. we have all seen that the cbo says the deficit goes away if we let the tax cuts expire. that's what we should be pushing for. on principle, that should be our line in the sand. we should not accept or excuse a gop framing from democrats. it's wrong on the politics, and even more importantly it's wrong on the policy.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 09:14:11 AM PDT

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          •  A Keynesian (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            psyched

            Would never argue that raising taxes on anyone, even the rich, is a stimulus.

            The Republicans are only partially interested in cutting waste and so on.  What they're really after is Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY IS THAT MIGHT MAKE A DENT IN THE DEFICIT!!!  It's called "The Tax Cut Con."

            If I was a communist, rich men would fear me...And the opposite applies. The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.

            by stewarjt on Sat Jul 02, 2011 at 10:12:49 AM PDT

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            •  i didnt say I was a kenesiyan i'm sure (0+ / 0-)

              you seem to not be reading what I write but reading INTO IT what you want.

              While a progressive tax rate is not a stimulus, in fact, (it ought to be general policy) in the reality of where we stand right NOW it would be.  If we tax the wealthy at the rate they should be taxed this year and next it's about the only revenue we'll see until we can get democrats back into power and effect a real stimulus.  So, until that time, it is, in effect, a stimulus.

              I have not disagreed with you that the GOP is only pretending to be interested in cutting the deficit. I never said they were serious, did I? I believe I termed them deficit hypocrites. I;m very deliberate in my use of language.

              So why are you boldly shouting at at me? I thought I was pretty clear when I said any cuts that are made should be made from waste and not at the expense of the needs of society. Or did you not read any of my comments?  Cutting social security is NOT a cut I would advocate obviously because to cut it fails the "needs of society" test. that doesn't mean that some cuts to other things that are wasteful shouldn't be considered. I'd like to see our defense spending cut significantly. I believe it can be done without sacrificing military readiness. I'd like to see single payer enacted because it's more efficient and cheaper than for-profit health care. AND citizens would get better services. That's a "cut" too.

              Please stop and read my comments and try not to react so reflexively just because the word "cuts" has been associated almost exclusively with the GOP. It doesn't have to be that way. And it shouldn't be.

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