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    •  REally? You blame the voters and the non-voters (28+ / 0-)

      but you don't blame those who ALLOW the deliberate dissemination of misinformation 24/7 on public airwaves and in the "NEWS".  You want non-voters to come out and vote and voters to know what the hell they are really voting for?
      ....The we need to first make sure they HAVE the REAL facts about who and what they vote for. Not everyone is into politics, so when they see and hear someone say that "blah blah" is the problem, and it gets repeated, so they believe it and vote that way.... guess what??
      It's our fault for not demanding truth in NEWS and finding a medium for FACTS and nothing but the FACTS!

      Pitbulls, if you train and breed them to kill, become crazed killers. The voters have become crazed voters because WE keep allowing them to be misinformed!!!

      "A lie repeated may be accepted as fact, but the truth repeated becomes self evident." -elonifer skyhawk

      by Fireshadow on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 01:41:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree, but who is (8+ / 0-)

        going tomake sure tat they have those "REAL facts"?

        Our "news" outlets - virtually all of them - are already in the hands of the right wing. The courts - including the SCOTUS - are packed with right-wing corporatist shills.

        Even the Democrats we have in office, with rare execption - from the president to local city council members - are either powerless against overwhelming teabag majorities, or are complicit themselves as they've shifted to the right and become "Republican lite".

        So how will we do this?

        "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

        by blue in NC on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 05:10:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Re: I agree, but who is... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gailwax, blue in NC

          This is something I think about every day - particularly for people who aren't online. How do the grassroots bridge the gap of communication for the truth and navigate through the misinformation, disinformation and outright lies flowing waist-deep out there? Would love to brainstorm with folks on that.

          •  We at Exposing ALEC are working on bringing (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blue in NC, Hector Solon, JVolvo

            their activities - including their corporate masters and legislative lackeys - into the bright light of day.  Held the first Protest in Cincy April 29th and the second is coming up in New Orleans on August 4-5.  Visit Protest Alec and see how you can help promote the Protest next month.

            Another organization has taken up the call and begun protests, demonstrations, videos and Rallies across the country in many large cities.  They are exposing Koch exploitation, prison privatization designed to incarcerate millions and profit off of them and of course ALEC.  This is the Brave New Foundation and Brave New Films.  Through both you can help get the word out to the communities, cities and rural neighborhoods.  Join, participate, donate or march with us as we continue to make others aware of the threat to our democracy.

            If nothing else, spread the word and links to friends, co-workers and others you think will take part or support.  It is up to us, our state and federal governments have all been compromised by this Cabal of corporate elite and bought and paid for legislative members (2,400 state lawmakers are members of ALEC).

            Boehner, Cantor, Walker and Kasich (ALEC Co-Founder) are all ALEC Alumni - so you can see how all of this leads right back to ALEC.  There is no compromising with them as the current debt ceiling crisis demonstrates.

            "Inmates should be reformed - not recycled" http://piecp-violations.com/

            by Bob Sloan on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 10:39:37 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you...these are great (0+ / 0-)

              initiatives and great links, a starting point, as it were.

              Amazingly, I had only heard of ALEC a few months ago. Talk about an organization doing a good job of keeping its nefarious, un-American activities hidden behind a curtain!

              We here in North Carolina have been heavily victimized by ALEC this year. Both houses of our legislature were hijacked by a bunch of crazies, teabaggers who bought their offices with millions from local Koch-clone Art Pope (fondly known among intelligent North Carolinians as "Fart Dope").

              Now I've learned to spot an ALEC-written "form-letter" bill from miles away, and a good portion of the crap that passed our legislature this session was ALEC-written garbage.

              This organization is as big a threat to American democracy as any terrorist, and really should be prosecuted under the RICO act. I've never seen anything like it, and I've followed politics closely - and seen a lot of criminals in action - for over 20 years.

              "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

              by blue in NC on Sat Jul 09, 2011 at 04:48:26 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  systemic; a feedback loop, a pandemic (14+ / 0-)

        the voters are to blame in that the only justification to vote for these extremists is to willfully forget what just happened to the economy two years before they voted, and the entire decade of disaster that came before.
        The media is to blame for doing nothing to remind people of recent history, in fact obscuring it and often, too often, telling deliberate lies.
        The politicians are to blame for a lot of things; pretending that extreme nominations to the judicial system wouldn't lead to greenlighting insane decisions that accelerate the entire process, to focusing on their own survival of the next election (basing their tactics for this on the incredibly insular advice of paid hacks who never, ever see the realities of most of us) and much, much more.
        The influence peddlers are to blame for doing their jobs with the same single minded zeal that banksters displayed in wrecking the economy; crossing every line and drowning their pets in cash while destroying anyone who attempts to slow the destruction.
        Money is most to blame, though. The bigger the money, the more culpable it is in all of the above, from the sweet lies told to the all-too-ignorant and uncritical voters to the ratings (read: advertising dollars) chasing media to the constantly begging for fundraising politicians to the selfishness of the influence peddlers.

        When the cancer has metastasized this far, exactly which organs does the surgeon (who is far more interested in the paycheck than the outcome to the patient) excise?

        Obama's like Bush? No. He's more like Cheney. They both shoot people in the face.

        by kamarvt on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:08:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Recc'd for the realistic breakdown... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mad Season, George3, gailwax

          ...and the sig line...:)

          I used to get very frustrated at my wingnut buddy--I used to tell her, "Come on--your internet goes to all the same sites as mine--why aren't you better informed?"

          She's active duty, and steeps in a very conservative culture all day at work.  She has 2 kids to raise, a country to serve, and she doesn't have the same natural appreciation for politics that we do.  She would probably die if she had to watch CSPAN for 10 minutes.  

          The influence peddlers and the media have been bloody brilliant in figuring out how to tap into that demographic.  

          It's true--after the rapture, we get all their shit. Unfortunately, they all shop at WalMart.

          by techiechick on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 11:49:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  not brilliant, but opportunistic (0+ / 0-)

            Aldous Huxley, George Orwell and Joseph Goebbels laid it all out a long time ago, but the "It Can't Happen Here" mythology has lulled our society at large into a complacency not seen since at least the last days of Rome. The callous application of the tactics and plotlines developed by those men is anything but brilliant. Effective, yes. Soulless, sociopathic, devoid of empathy,  and unimaginably cruel, absolutely. But I will not call evil brilliant in any manifestation; it is too common a thing to ever be brilliant.
            As you may have gathered from the above, I have pretty much given up on our current mechanisms to correct the badly off kilter running of our political and information dissemination systems. The fact that there are no massive protests in the streets is exhibit A. Historically, we made shows of force long before things got this bad (labor movement, civil rights, antiwar 60s). But there is no sign, none, that there will be anything but some impotent mutterings from the "looney left" when a purportedly democratic government (potus +senate) presides over the death of the greatest social achievements in our history; the New Deal and the expansion of rights of the latter half of the last century. I expect neither to outlast this decade.
            The US of A is in a precipitous decline on all fronts, from our physical health to our dreams as a nation (space program, anyone? naaah) to our military preeminence.
            Truthfully, that's not even the worst of our problems. Mother Nature has woken up to the fact that her most precocious children have been behaving very, very badly, and she is in the early stages of maternal discipline.
            THAT, imo, is the problem most dire; and true to form, we are simply refusing to see it.

            Obama's like Bush? No. He's more like Cheney. They both shoot people in the face.

            by kamarvt on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 01:32:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Money is the problem (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kamarvt

          What is the old axiom? Absolute power corrupts absolutely? Money = Power for them because it is the only thing they value, and we are bound by it as well, so they just can't seem to get enough of concentrating the wealth into fewer and fewer hands while trying to break our spirits.

      •  media's not the problem (6+ / 0-)

        It's the voters who don't pay attention or put in the work to find the info they need that vote for these crooks. It's easier to just buy the shit they're sold on TV. People here at Kos know the MSM is a scam to be ignored and look elsewhere for info. This is the idea of "informed citizenry". It's our responsibility to know what's going on. It's a Citizen's duty.

      •  Read my sigline and this (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wader, Imhotepsings, George3

        One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors – Plato

        One bitter fact is two bit hacks populate the third rate fourth estate who are truly the fifth columnists. So, how did Obama piss you off today ?
        Call the media when they Lie

        by amk for obama on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 09:42:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, that's the shtick of a certain...tribe here. (0+ / 0-)

        The fingers are always pointed out and elsewhere.  Always.

        Note the last sentence in that poster's sig:

        So, how did Obama piss you off today ?

        The blame and ridicule is always on the non-believers.

        The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it." ~ Hillbilly Dem's 78-yo Dad (RIP)

        by JVolvo on Sat Jul 09, 2011 at 09:42:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I blame the 2010 Democratic candidates for (6+ / 0-)

      running shitty campaigns and not attracting votes.

      Having a policy does not mean receiving care. -- Tzimisce

      by Miggles on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 05:55:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yep. Absolutely. n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      amk for obama, Imhotepsings

      All I see is these fake fucks with no fangs tryin' to draw blood from my ice-cold veins. - Jay-Z

      by fou on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 06:40:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We are Murika and we get what we deserve. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Imhotepsings
    •  How about the Democratic politicians like Obama (17+ / 0-)

      ...who refuse to challenge the metastasizing of corporate power? Who, in fact, aid it by making sure to get a health care bill that shovels customers to the corporate pig insurance companies while selling out the public option. Who aid the corporate onslaught by echoing right wing talking points on the budget and the economy. Who aid the corporate onslaught by bailing out the banksters and defending their "contractual rights" to huge bonuses--no such defense of contractual rights for auto workers when their big companies got bailed out--while also attacking public workers and unilaterally freezing their wages.

      I blame those who defend Democratic Party politicians like Obama who sell out the middle class.

      We should all pitch in and buy you a mirror.

    •  umm (6+ / 0-)

      I voted and even helped get dems elected here in NJ, they just fucked us.  So who are you blaming again?

      Bad is never good until worse happens

      by dark daze on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:12:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Can we walk back from the blame the victim meme? (14+ / 0-)

      In Wisconsin, Walker didn't campaign on this stuff.  It was jobs, jobs, jobs.  Oh, and a pony and a unicorn for everyone, if you believed the millions of dollars that outside interest advertising.

      I have relatives who are dreadfully hurt by Walker's program.  They did not vote for Walker.  Children who are losing their health care couldn't vote, period.

      Saying "they get what they deserve" does not help us win our states back.

      RECOUNT. Recall - We did it!! VOTE against the frauds, then VOTE TO TAKE WISCONSIN BACK!!! Rescind. Rebuild. Now with more voting, thanks to republican dirty tricks.

      by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:12:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He ran as a Republican. (7+ / 0-)

        I'm sorry, but if you haven't figured out after eight years of Bush that maybe Republicans are kinda dicks by now, then a Turing Test is in order.

        The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

        by Punditus Maximus on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:40:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have. Not everyone has. (8+ / 0-)

          Now they have buyers remorse.  We can insult their intelligence, tell them it sucks to be you, or we can try to help them and get them on our side.

          RECOUNT. Recall - We did it!! VOTE against the frauds, then VOTE TO TAKE WISCONSIN BACK!!! Rescind. Rebuild. Now with more voting, thanks to republican dirty tricks.

          by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 08:00:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We'll do that, too. (3+ / 0-)

            But we have to understand -- most of these are people who hate us very viscerally and will take any opportunity to defect.

            Anyone who voted Repub after eight years of Bush hates the hell out of a lot of their fellow Americans.  If we want to recruit them, we're going to have to successfully either allay that or convince them that they love their kids more than they hate us.  Which they might, but they also might not.

            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

            by Punditus Maximus on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 08:34:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Respectfully agree & disagree. (5+ / 0-)

              I'll agree with you there's a lot of hatred from perhaps the 15-30% of people on the far right.  

              But I've had conversations with a number of people who have voted republican over the past few months of our Wisconsin Recall Mania.  

              These are people who view themselves as honest conservatives, who believe in things like personal freedom and local control.  Not hate-filled.  They believe in good, open, and transparent government. They are offended at the republican power grab they are seeing.   They have been shocked at the vitriol - yes, hate - spilling out of the voters on the hard-core right.

              They have stunned me with their willingness to talk about voting Democratic in the upcoming recall elections.  And so I think we have a real opening here, so long as we are able to be civil and engage them.

              RECOUNT. Recall - We did it!! VOTE against the frauds, then VOTE TO TAKE WISCONSIN BACK!!! Rescind. Rebuild. Now with more voting, thanks to republican dirty tricks.

              by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 08:46:36 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Be civil! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                IndyGlenn

                But understand that they're lying first to themselves and then to you.  The only reason to vote Republican is hate, and the folks who run Republican campaigns know this.  Like the government-union-affiliated Teabaggers who were astonished to learn that the Teabagger government and union hate applied to them -- they think they're exceptions, is all.

                The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                by Punditus Maximus on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 09:26:33 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  No need to throw it in their faces constantly (0+ / 0-)

            But, yes: partially insulting their intelligence at this website is probably warranted, to some respect.

            Cultural alignment that leads to ignorance is great to break open after obvious examples such as Walker's overreaching, but the Republicans have been sending most localities into the ditch for decades . . . and now suddenly their portion of the electorate notices that it's not all terrific in Republicanville.

            That portion of their electorate should garner some blame for keeping their heads in the sand.

            "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

            by wader on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 09:53:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  If they bought his schtick of 'jobs, jobs, jobs', (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wader, Imhotepsings, BleacherBum153

        they got what they deserved. Voting is a power which they misused to their own disadvantage. What's wrong in pointing that out ?

        One bitter fact is two bit hacks populate the third rate fourth estate who are truly the fifth columnists. So, how did Obama piss you off today ?
        Call the media when they Lie

        by amk for obama on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 09:31:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I believe in redemption. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          3goldens, stormicats, AnnieJo

          When voters say "I'm sorry I sat out the last election" or "I'm sorry I voted republican", we need to welcome and encourage them.

          Saying "I told you so" doesn't bring them to our side.  It doesn't help build a coalition to win.

          And for me, right now, it's about winning.

          RECOUNT. Recall - We did it!! VOTE against the frauds, then VOTE TO TAKE WISCONSIN BACK!!! Rescind. Rebuild. Now with more voting, thanks to republican dirty tricks.

          by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 10:45:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Buyer's remorse (0+ / 0-)

        I know a lot of intelligent liberals who voted for Snyder here in Michigan, and like tons of others in states that elected these wingnuts, they are experiencing profound buyer's remorse. I think that the comment below is true, that they ran as candidates in a party that has dissolved into lying and revising history because they can't win on the issues and people should have been able to see through that. However, I think that the voting public's desire to have hope for positive change, the fact we live in a pervasive culture of fear (disseminated by the ultra right-wing of course, though that connection seems to not be made often enough in the voting booth) and the misplaced idea that these GOPers have a baseline of human decency had a lot to do with it as well. Although, I really don't understand how well-read folks, informed folks couldn't see that Snyder or Walker or Kasich were just out there lying for votes - but that doesn't mean I penalize them, each case is individual. Frankly, I think they got played. The GOP played them and appealed to the common decency of the voters, a quality that they, themselves, completely lack. And just so no one was left out, they preyed on the fears of the public and lied about producing jobs to get the votes. It's just that they've so clearly done this over and over again. Why did people not see that?! - Ugh. Anyway, moving forward it's important to take the lessons we can from the past and leave the rest because I personally don't want to spend time with blame when we should be stepping forward. Good discussion Kos-sters :)

    •  Yes (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jm214, esquimaux, blueoasis, 3goldens, ohmyheck

      Blaming the victims helps.

      You own obvious contempt for the people in this country - which is echoed by others here who seek to defend Obama from any and all criticism - is part of the problem and a big part at that.

      You and your fellow Obama defenders are enabling the fascists.

      Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

      by democracy inaction on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:19:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  lmao. They shot themselves in the foot (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Imhotepsings

        and 'obamots' are somehow enabling the fascists. What a fucking idiot you are.

        One bitter fact is two bit hacks populate the third rate fourth estate who are truly the fifth columnists. So, how did Obama piss you off today ?
        Call the media when they Lie

        by amk for obama on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 09:39:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Right back atcha (0+ / 0-)
          What a fucking idiot you are.

          Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

          by democracy inaction on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 05:59:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Oh (0+ / 0-)

          And if anyone wants to slap a donut on amk's comment for a flagrant violation of the rules, please be my guest as I am prohibited from doing so as amk's comment is a response to mine.  He certainly deserves it, as he usually does.

          How about you, Imhotepsings?  I think you hit the wrong button.  The "Hide" button is the one on the right, not the left.  Because, you know, I can't believe you'd deliberately recommend a comment with personal insults and profanity aimed at another user, which is also clearly against site rules, so I am assuming you meant to hide and only accidentally hit recommend.  Right?

          Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

          by democracy inaction on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 06:15:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm half tempted (0+ / 0-)

          to vote against Obama in 2012 just for the purpose of cancelling out your vote, which is an indication of just how much contempt that I have for you and your fellow Obama-defending fascists.  Part of me even hopes Obama loses despite how bad things will be for me and everyone else in this country just because I know that things will be that bad for you too.  And that seeing Obama lose would absolutely crush you and your merry band of apologists.  That schadenfreude is precisely what will get me through the hard times if Obama does lose.

          Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

          by democracy inaction on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 06:30:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, so now I am able to glean more insight (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Kiamichi, MKSinSA

            into your response below.

            You may be somewhat unstable with regards to actual policy discussions possibly prone to extreme actions - as if any disagreements are highly personal, extreme emotional attacks against all of society as you define such.  You are the firewall protecting all that is good.

            "Someone on the Internet is wrong!" and you may as well do something rather irrational in response - because, that's intended to prove . . . well, who the heck knows.  That you're capable of acting out like a child?

            Apparently, you've grouped me into one of the two polarized camps in your limited worldview - good choice, there.

            "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

            by wader on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 06:49:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You're calling ME (0+ / 0-)

              unstable and extremely emotional?  Did you even read your own unstable and extremely emotional comment?

              Talk about self-unaware.

              Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

              by democracy inaction on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:08:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Er, I'm feeling rather calm, actually (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Kiamichi, MKSinSA

                I just can't take you seriously at the moment - you can't even respond with content, just odd, hyperventilating bluster.

                Sure, it's true that even responding to extremists by calling them out for what they do makes the responder seem extreme in a moderate worldview, but that's issues we have with Republicans and I've used to such false comparisons.

                "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

                by wader on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:11:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I am responding appropriately (0+ / 0-)

                  to someone that blames the voters, it is such an effective form of activism (see: 2010 election results).  The proper way to respond to something that ridiculous is ridicule.

                  I fart in your general direction.

                  Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

                  by democracy inaction on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:31:41 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Immaturity is meant to impress me? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Kiamichi, MKSinSA

                    Of course the voters are partly to blame.  I said "partly" and justified it in two comments within this diary.  The democratic process is a chain of factors towards leaders becoming elected, not just a selection of royalty.

                    Have you ever been a conservative and/or Republican, and know what it feels like to go along with that crowd?  Then, how it feels to realize later on what you had done, felt and said while in that thrall?

                    I have and will mention the experience here at times when it seems appropriate - there's an enforced, cultural bubble around the voters that's based on mutually agreed upon ignorance and elitism, stemming mostly from subscription to shared biases.

                    I've said it many times before, in various ways: conservatives will only realize the damage of their voting habits after their leadership hits them squarely between the eyes multiple times, then turns their back and shows it never mattered to them at all.  By the time many of these voters allow themselves to wake into reality, it'll be far too late for doing much good.  Until then, they'll sustain the cognitive dissonance for as long as it takes to remain in the good graces of their likewise fear-driven peers.

                    I got out - others can, too.  Until then, I feel sorry for them and the other people upon whom their votes are indirectly inflicting pain.

                    Tell me about your background experience in this realm, perhaps.  Maybe you can win some respect back.

                    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

                    by wader on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:42:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  It's better to keep one's mouth shut and be (0+ / 0-)

            thought as an idiot than to open it and confirm the suspicion.

            One bitter fact is two bit hacks populate the third rate fourth estate who are truly the fifth columnists. So, how did Obama piss you off today ?
            Call the media when they Lie

            by amk for obama on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 08:07:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I admittedly cannot follow your cliquish logic (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Imhotepsings

        here.

        The victims are partly the enablers of these problems - you can't remove the electorate from equations of who gets voted in and should take responsibility for easily telegraphed results, in many of these cases.  Walker is only being more obvious in his actions, compared to the softer PR used by prior Republicans in power - but, intended results are the same.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 09:56:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Heh (0+ / 0-)
          I admittedly cannot follow your cliquish logic here.
          You, Wader?  You?!  Color me shocked, shocked I say!

          Gambling in the casino....ARGH!!!!

          Come on, you act like I didn't already know that about you.  If you had any credibility at all, I'd be hurt.

          Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

          by democracy inaction on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 06:05:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Insults (and, more cliquish behavior) aside (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Kiamichi

            a reply to the content would be appreciated.

            As for your attitude, not sure what I've done to deserve this odd level of personal attack, but that's apparently your issue and not mine.

            "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

            by wader on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 06:36:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Somehow (0+ / 0-)

              I doubt that you would appreciate my reply to your content.  They don't make words that express my contempt strongly enough for you or anyone that thinks it's OK to blame the voters for not voting for a bad candidate and/or a bad campaign.

              I don't blame voters for choosing "neither" when faced with the choice of the lesser of two evils and neither should you nor anyone else.  Your focus should be on seeing to it that the voters don't face that choice.  That when they get to the voting booth they have a real choice.  That's what "better democrats" is all about.

              For you and for anyone else that thinks those damn stupid voters are responsible for the Democrats' electoral woes, keep using that approach.  Keep insulting the people that we all need to vote for Dems, that will really make them want to do what you want them to.  After all, it worked so well in 2010, didn't it?

              Arrrr, the laws of science be a harsh mistress. -Bender B. Rodriguez

              by democracy inaction on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:24:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  My focus is on voter education as much as (0+ / 0-)

                anything else - no, it's actually more on the side of helping other voters see the light of potentially bad choices.  The rest on supporting good campaigns more directly and sending in opinions/making calls to the offices of representatives about issues that crop up.

                Such as voting for Republicans and expecting that they won't merely pull taxes into a concentrated pot for wealthy compatriots, leaving crumbs for the majority of USA citizens - including those who voted them into office.

                Of course we must partly blame voters, to act as if they have no say in the matter is silly.  Some are ignorant, many are willfully ignorant.  I know this by experience, from being that way myself - how about you?

                Still, taking that one point I was supporting above and polarizing it as if that happens to be the most important aspect in my political areas of interest is a HUGE leap, though.

                "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

                by wader on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 07:58:59 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  It does not help that the present administration (6+ / 0-)

      absolutely refuses to enforce the Rule of Law when it comes to the rich and powerful.  They enable the criminality to continue . . .

      I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

      by bobdevo on Fri Jul 08, 2011 at 08:23:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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