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View Diary: A 2009 Foreboding fulfilled: Obama "is plotting politically feasible ways to reduce Social Security" (41 comments)

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  •  I certainly oppose Obama's politics (2+ / 0-)
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    TomP, hideinplainsight

    but what do you mean by voting him out of office? Do you mean voting for Bachman or Romney or any of the other sleaze bags that are running in the Republican primaries? Not that I don't think there is a scenario that could somehow makes sense I just wonder what it is from your POV.

    •  Right now I's say writing someone like Bernie (5+ / 0-)

      Sanders or note punching the top of the ballot are a far better alternative then reelecting the incumbent.

      Would the democratic congress have voted to
      extend the expiring Bush tax in 2010 if a republican President fwas leading the charge like President Obama did?  Would we have congressional democrats entertaining the though of voting for cuts to social security or medicare if a republican was at the helm.

      The Republicans are in the drivers seat with this guy in office.

      •  So then you believe by giving the Republicans (3+ / 0-)
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        TomP, wader, second gen

        the White House you could reform the Democratic Party into reflecting more progressives views? That's a logical scenario and certainly worth thinking about. On the other hand, the American people don't like progressive politics, as far as I can tell.

        •  Says who? (5+ / 0-)

          In poll after poll after poll (e.g. single payer, ending the wars, etc.) the American people are progressive. The center/right country concept is a figment of the corporate media imagination.

          •  I don't agree (0+ / 0-)

            Everyone loves Santa Claus but when push comes to shove Americans would push their own children down the toilet to keep their narcissitice fantasy lives going. I have no trust at all of polls--people answer based on some notions they have of what is right and good. But when they are in real life they don't act that way--I learned this on the street from some great hoodlums who knew how to read people. It's lovely to be good but most Americans like being bad and like being wasteful and pretend they aren't to avoid cognitive dissonance.

            If what you say is true then why do people seldom vote for progressive candidates except in the enclaves of the left? Progressives make up about 15% of the population and this has been historically consistent over some time.

            There are two big differences between today's political situation and the past: 1) the left has dropped out of hard-nosed politics; and 2) as a result the right felt permission to go into sheer lunacy and a weird destructive form of authoritarian anarchism. In the past there were statesmen on all sides, right, left and center--these figures are largely absent today. The reason for that is the growing madness in the body-politic.

            •  Fair enough (2+ / 0-)
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              banger, rick

              But, I believe that the reason why people seldom vote for progressive candidates is because most people who would (i.e. poor people) simply do not vote and have checked out of the political process altogether because they do not feel represented by either party.

              •  Good point (0+ / 0-)

                There was a time, and I knew some of the organizers, when not just the poor but welfare recipients were organizing (in the late sixties). Now, nothing, no organizing, very little union activity--what happened? I believe it to be the growth of the culture of naricissism which is a complex subject that I've seen unfold before my eyes, tragically.

                •  That may be true (2+ / 0-)
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                  Bluefin, banger

                  But it is also by the constant and relentless anti-union agenda of both parties, as well as the propaganda of the corporate media which pits people against people in order to divide and conquer them. This is why people feel atomized, disconnected and with nothing but religion and guns to turn to. We need a new progressive grassroots organizing force. We need our own Tahrir Square: october2011.org.

                  •  I understand what you are saying (1+ / 0-)
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                    politicjock

                    But, the system feeds people lies they want to hear.

                    It's one of those chicken and egg things. Did the relentless focus on anti-unionism since Roosevelt by the Chambers of Commerce and the Wall Street Agency (CIA) "cause" people to move away from unions or was it the failure of the union movement to nurture community, class-struggle, and cohesion in favor of "every man a king" mentality?

                    It has been the American denial of collectivism that has destroyed the left--by collectivism I don't mean stupid sheep doing as they're told but the recognition (now with solid scientific evidence) that people are happiest when they affiliate, cooperate and work, to some extent, selflessly.

                    I agree about the organizing a grassroots movement but my sense of people on the left is that they don't want to do that. I've been pushing that for years and my sense, on the blogosphere and elsewhere, is that they'd rather complain than change their lives in a radical way. Any movement in progressive politics would demand a radical alteration in the way we live. I know no more than a handful of people willing to do that and it is towards those people that I'm moving.

                    •  Well (0+ / 0-)

                      While I don't have data at hand, it would be easy to do a comparative study: do workers from countries which promote collective bargaining and general popular solidarity fare better than those in the US? I would guess the answer to be yes. Look at Europe, for example. When governments support the rights of workers, people fare better and are better equipped at pushing back should wealthy people try to take back their rights and benefits (see Greece, for example).

                      On the other hand, people have fought tooth and nails for their rights in this country as well (e.g. the civil rights movement), so it can be done again. But you are right, many people will have to give up their privileged life in order to create change. I hope it will happen sooner than later, since there is no question in my mind that we will soon see riots and the likes if nothing changes at the political/economic level. The task is to channel the discontent before it erupts in violent and unproductive ways.

        •  He may become toxic enough to invite a primary (2+ / 0-)
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          Bluefin, politicjock

          challenge.

          How many millions of voters can you be publicly willing to throw under the bus and still be electable? Cat food anyone?

          by hideinplainsight on Tue Jul 12, 2011 at 08:09:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't think so... (2+ / 0-)
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            hideinplainsight, northsylvania

            Most Democratic leaning voters, including me, believe that Obama is slowing the rapid descent into neo-feudalism and buying time for us to make preparations. I think he's doing the best he can under the current circumstances when the oligarchs control almost everything in this country--neo-feudalism will be the central fact of our lives in the next two decades--better prepare. People aren't ready for fighting in the streets just yet and a Republican take-over may very well bring just that, but I could be wrong and hope I'm wrong.

            Just a few months ago I thought a primary was a good idea but I've changed my mind. I think the right has become so lunatic that I want to hold it off for a little while still to have time to re-organize my life. Without an organized and radical left there is no hope of any reform of any kind and I don't see the left or the progressive movement as capable of any concerted political action.

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