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View Diary: Gene Robinson destroys Herman Cain (140 comments)

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  •  Ever heard (0+ / 0-)
    Islam, according to many scholars, is also a form of governance and calls for a political system built on several Islamic principles. To some Muslims, you cannot separate the two. The leader is supposed to lead the country and the church, essentially; it's like the King and Pope being the same person.

    Whereas in Christianity, the church has always tried to influence the state (sometimes severely), but the church does not really become the state.

    of a dude named Henry VIII and a little thing called the Church Of England?

    For that matter, wasn't the longtime practice European royalty to place the their second sons in the army and their third sons into high places in the church?

    Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

    by drewfromct on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 09:50:16 AM PDT

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    •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

      But that was not a religious doctrine that required the head of church to also be the head of state.

      That was the head of state who decided he didn't like the church not letting him do what he wanted and thus choosing to make himself the head of the church.

      Furthermore, in the Church of England doctrine today, parliament (the state) has final say over the church in several measures; the church does not have final say over the state.

      In other words, church doctrine is not setting parameters on governance.

      Your analogy really doesn't reflect an understanding of Islam; neither does you sig line.

      We Won't Let Republicans Replace Medicare with GOP Vouchercare!

      by CatM on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:04:29 AM PDT

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      •  I fail to see (0+ / 0-)
        that was not a religious doctrine that required the head of church to also be the head of state.
        how that's relevant. Curches and Kings wield power based on the same motivations: Lust for power in and of itself, and the  trappings, privileges and creature comforts that accompany it.
        Your analogy really doesn't reflect an understanding of Islam; neither does you sig line.
        I'm not here to quibble with you or anyone else over the fine points of religious doctrine. Again, the main point is the nature of power, who wields it, and why.

        As for my sig line, it's a reference to the irony of the Bush administration using secular tax dollars to finance religious organizations during a time when our nation is under attack by an ostensibly religious terrorist organization.

        If you're  really someone who seriously bases their life on laws  allegedly laid down by a mythical all-powerful invisible man who lives in the sky, I guess I can see why you might fail to understand it or see the humor in it.

        Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

        by drewfromct on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:21:50 AM PDT

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        •  Hahaha (0+ / 0-)

          I am an atheist. I probably fail to see the humor in it because I am also an Aspie, and we're quite literal. Hidden "humor" often escapes us.

          I don't think the main point is power and who wields it. I think the main point (for me) is why Herman Cain sounds like he is misunderstanding something told to him about the Islamic faith and its interrelations with government, which is ostensibly not part of Christian doctrine and yet is something i suspect Christians would like to see occur.

          I can see why you would not want to quibble over the finer points of religious doctrine. It appears you don't understand them or this conversation.

          We Won't Let Republicans Replace Medicare with GOP Vouchercare!

          by CatM on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 10:56:48 AM PDT

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          •  I don't care (0+ / 0-)

            to quibble over religious doctrine because it's all based on mythology.  Islamic doctrine is as relevant to me as the finer points of whatever the doctrine was of Thor and the gods of Norse mythology, and if a billion or so of my contemporaries professed a belief in such, my sole concern would be whether or how said belief affected non-believers such as you and I.

            I would actually probably agree with Mr. Cain if I thought he were being sincere. However, it is the so-called "Christian Dominionists" who I think we need to be very concerned about. If anyone wants to impose "Sharia" (i.e. religious) law over non-believers, it's them.

            Al Qeada is a faith-based initiative.

            by drewfromct on Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 12:23:00 PM PDT

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