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View Diary: On atheist bigotry (61 comments)

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  •  So still no explanation how "the biggest evil" (0+ / 0-)

    gave rise to some of the greatest humanitarians of our times.

    Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

    by Wee Mama on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 12:22:28 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  You speak of religion as if it were the sole cause (0+ / 0-)

      ... of his humanitarian ideals. Again, I think that is simplistic.

      •  You're not even trying to address my question. I (0+ / 0-)

        can propose a variety of possible answers: "Humanitarian ideals were expressed in religious language in his family," "They knew their audiences and used what they thought would work," and so on. But you are not proposing anything except to say that to attribute religious motives to men who have openly spoken about and from their religious convictions is "simplistic." It may be simplistic (I don't think so) but it is more than a dismissive adjective.

        Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

        by Wee Mama on Fri Jul 22, 2011 at 01:33:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He spoke from his convicitons. (0+ / 0-)

          Why do you choose to label them as exclusively religious?

          •  I think it may be a difficulty for atheists to (0+ / 0-)

            enter into the experience of people of such deep faith. You see the expression above ground (the commitment to equality and justice) but the roots are deep and go down to that core experience and faith in God. Someone who does live from that faith (for example, I taught in Harlem two summers as a teenager) knows by personal experience how that feels. For someone who only shares the the outcomes (the commitment to equality and justice) those deep roots are invisible unless you spend time in their personal writings or similar sources.

            I am pointing to them as religious as an empirical test of the claim that religion is the biggest evil. If something is the biggest evil, how does it bear good fruit? Perhaps it is not the biggest evil, nor wholly evil.

            Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

            by Wee Mama on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 04:38:59 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Deep faith (0+ / 0-)

              That may well be the evil being spoken of. After all, it indicates surrender of one's faculties, the readiness to believe and act based on nothing rational.

              Someone with your sort of faith, since you describe yourself as having it, might latch onto positive values and do some good with them. You might just as easily have latched onto negative values (present in the same book) and done some bad with them. And the faith would mean you can't tell the difference. Hateful, discriminatory, murderous fundamentalists being the obvious example. They seem to share your sense of feeling justified through faith.

              That bad choice, to go out of control -- is that the 'biggest evil'? I don't know. But it seems like a bad and unnecessary choice. It's not as if a commitment to equality and justice can only be achieved through faith. Your 'deep roots' are unnecessary. Just plain old deepity. I wonder if believers can comprehend just how bad this choice looks to a skeptic.

              I'm finding a lot of things funny lately. But I don't think they are. -- Ripley

              by tytalus on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 09:05:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  No, that would be a test of the claim that ... (0+ / 0-)

              ... people with religious affiliations are univerally evil.

              I think it may be a difficulty for atheists to enter into the experience of people of such deep faith.

              The fact that you think that it's easy to do such a thing makes me think that you're just projecting your feelings onto other people.
            •  The most annoying part of being an atheist... (0+ / 0-)

              ...is being told on a daily basis what we can't do or experience.

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