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View Diary: Oslo Shooter Manifesto: Exterminate The "Liberal Fascists" (104 comments)

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  •  Bad "Quote" That Is Probably A Fake (0+ / 0-)

    Nobody has ever really found that line in Mussonlini's writings, but wingnuts like to use it when they are playing the "everyone else but me is a fascist" game.

    I'm pretty sure you find that quoe used by the LaRouchies so they can draw a Hitler mustache on Obama.

    It is a line all too easily used by Nazi apologists to say if everyone is a Fascist, then don't call me a Fascist,

    It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the cheese. And you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.

    by bernardpliers on Sun Jul 24, 2011 at 10:33:42 AM PDT

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    •  rejection of class conflict in favor of unity (0+ / 0-)

      Corporatism is the rejection of class conflict in favor of the argument that the social classes are basically a division of labor, all of which are necessary for the optimum functioning of society for the benefit of everyone.  Think of it as the theory of competitive advantage applied to individual people: everyone does what they're best at, be it farming, manufacturing, soldiering, engineering, or politics, and that a classless society where everyone was a peasant would simply waste most people's talents and hold all of society back.

      Expecting better is NOT "white privilege"

      by Visceral on Sun Jul 24, 2011 at 10:50:31 AM PDT

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      •  I Am Not Persuaded (0+ / 0-)

        Communism wanted a classless society where workers own the means of production.

        Fascist corporatism promised to protest the class structure, divided the country into citizens and "subjects" who had no rights, created new hereditary racial classes, and  ran on slave labor. Thus, Fascist corporatism was all about class.

        It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the cheese. And you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.

        by bernardpliers on Sun Jul 24, 2011 at 11:04:29 AM PDT

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        •  Mussolini & Hitler walked a tightrope (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kimball Cross, Knarfc

          The Italian and German peoples were mad as hell and would be easy pickings for bona fide Socialists and Communists, but the deeply conservative social and political establishments would never allow this.  Add the personal ambitions of both men, and corporatism was the obvious answer: address (or cover up) the grievances of the working class without displacing the plutocrats by emphasizing the state over the economy.  The fascist state would become the champion of the nation - the people - and would ensure that the economy worked for the benefit of everyone rather than just the owners.  It wouldn't hurt that people would now look to the state for [vicarious] fulfillment.  It also satisfied the nationalists' concerns that Italy and Germany should not fall under the control of Moscow and an ideology that in many quarters was viewed as fundamentally foreign.

          Expecting better is NOT "white privilege"

          by Visceral on Sun Jul 24, 2011 at 11:32:05 AM PDT

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          •  Yes. Hence..."national"..."socialism" (0+ / 0-)

            as opposed to international...communism.

            Socialism is not, per se, a left only doctrine. Merely it's the democratic variety of socialism we are most familiar with, post WWII, with tends to be thought of as left leaning, and often is.

            However, there is a "Christian" socialism, in the form of governments run by Christian Democratic Parties, notably in Italy and West Germany, post WWII, which tends to be more a center right type.

            H'mm. I'm not terribly into this, anymore.

            by Knarfc on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 12:04:06 AM PDT

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            •  By 1933 Socialists Were Being Sent To The Camps (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aliasalias

              First they came for the union members....

              Hitler promised a war on socialism in Mein Kampf (1929).

              Also using your opponents word is classic dialectics ("Clean Skies Initiative").

              It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the cheese. And you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.

              by bernardpliers on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 12:10:04 AM PDT

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              •  socialism for me but not for thee (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bernardpliers

                Think of national socialism as an extension of Bismarck's welfare state, which was created for the purpose of heading off a real socialist revolution.  The state assumed responsibility for the welfare of German workers while allowing the private sector to go on as it had before. Orthodox internationalist socialism was very much a threat to the fundamentally nationalist Nazi project, but at the same time the Nazis had many programs oriented towards improving the lot of the average German, especially before the war started.  I know it sounds confused or cynical, but Lenin would have argued that it was the biggest threat to the realization of Marx's dream: the capitalists buying off the proletariat with everything they asked for while holding onto ownership and thus true power.

                Hitler's biggest rival in the early days was Ernst Rohm, the original leader of the brown-shirted stormtroopers.  Rohm pretty much explicitly advocated the disestablishment of capitalism in favor of an populist anarchy welded together by the organic bonds of the Volk - reminiscent IMO of what Marx envisioned as the final victory of communism.  Rohm and his followers were killed or marginalized because the German military and industrial establishment viewed him as a real threat - his being gay was just a convenient excuse - whereas they saw Hitler as someone who would ultimately protect their position in German society.

                Expecting better is NOT "white privilege"

                by Visceral on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 09:54:20 AM PDT

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                •  You Need To Tweak Your Chronology (0+ / 0-)
                  Orthodox internationalist socialism was very much a threat to the fundamentally nationalist Nazi project, but at the same time the Nazis had many programs oriented towards improving the lot of the average German, especially before the war started.

                  (Not counting the promises they broke)

                  Once the enabling Act passed in March 1933, it basically became illegal to be unemployed. If you got fired, you might do a turn in a forced labor camp.

                  It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the cheese. And you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.

                  by bernardpliers on Mon Jul 25, 2011 at 10:02:42 AM PDT

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