Skip to main content

View Diary: Anti-Capitalist Meet-Up: Is A Non-Exploitive Economy Based on Worker-Own Cooperatives Possible (150 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Partial quote from the Capitalist manifesto. (4+ / 0-)

    I cheated slightly, but I still think it is relevant.

    •  Never cheat (8+ / 0-)

      on a quote.  It undermines your credibility.  I say this as a friend.

      I raised the question because Marx is commonly represented as having a very simplistic approach to historical change, in the form of a feudalism/capitalism/socialism dialectic.  This may fit his vocabulary, but it doesn't get to his understanding of how things change, which is not a neat process at all.

      •  Actually, I'm not sure where I got it from this (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NY brit expat, TPau, MKSinSA, shantysue

        time.  It is such a common quote and concept.  If you google it you will see that it has numerous references from Foucalt, the german Ideology, etc.  I didn't reference it because this is a diary, not an academic treatise.  

        I agree that many marxists can be very reductionist in their anaylsis of the Modes of Production.  But I find Marx's paradigm of the dialectical process works very well and this was what I was trying to suggest with this quote.  Also, as an activist who has spent time both in academia and on the street arguing the merits of both the anarchist and marxist perspectives, I like to use aspects of many radical strands.

        BTW I don't have an answer to the question raised. and  I think both views have value and play off each other.So  Please don't get hung up on the quote.  Read the article and then you can blast away with real differences. That is why I posted the diary -- so that we could discuss and add or perspectives to finding a solution.

        •  Read it (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NY brit expat, Justina, MKSinSA, Geminijen

          loved it, it's a great piece.  The reason I harp on the quote is that I think Marx's description of historical change is often misrepresented as a totalizing dialectic, as if feudalism existed, antitheses sprang up (or were present from the start) and then boom! everything changed.  In fact, it didn't happen like that, and Marx never said it did, though he certainly provided a sketch of history that followed those broad outlines.  I am someone who thinks that dialectic gets overemphasized in discussions about Marx and, more importantly where to go from here.  It's a form of logic by which we understand things.  It helps us from getting mentally stuck in one place, and imagining only one solution.  Dialectic was multi-directional and dimensional, so to speak: things did not move in one direction, and were neither purely material or ideal.

          Why is this on-point?  Because if you want to solve the problem of capitalism as a total system, coops are woefully, WOEFULLY (shouting!) inadequate.  Fortunately for us, we don't have to and indeed cannot solve the whole problem of capitalism at this moment.  We are looking for actually existing forms and relationships that change property from an individual to a social, indeed, for me, communal form, in which people actualize themselves through their social relationships.  Coops in that sense are entirely adequate and at the moment entirely necessary.

          •  Here's the context of the quote from Marx (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NY brit expat, Geminijen
            It will be the workers, with their courage, resolution and self-sacrifice, who will be chiefly responsible for achieving victory. The petty bourgeoisie will hesitate as long as possible and remain fearful, irresolute and inactive; but when victory is certain it will claim it for itself and will call upon the workers to behave in an orderly fashion, and it will exclude the proletariat from the fruits of victory. ... the rule of the bourgeois democrats, from the very first, will carry within it the seeds of its own destruction, and its subsequent displacement by the proletariat will be made considerably easier..

            Marx, Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League (1850)

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site