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View Diary: Credit Where Credit Is Due: Some People Need Reminding (20 comments)

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  •  A few links (0+ / 0-)

    There's this account in the WSJ about how the debt ceiling was considered but was ruled out because of the politics of getting it by the House Republicans during the lame duck.

    There's this handy tick-tock from TPM about when the Senate candidates in 2010 got leadership to cave on the Bush tax cuts before the election.

    And then there's this Felix Salmon blog, riffing on Ezra Klein's fault-finding on the White House for not raising the debt ceiling in 2010, and basically laying it at Harry Reid's feet.

    •  Thanks for the links (0+ / 0-)

      however, the diarist claimed that "after the tax cut compromise...As part of the legislation to pursue during the December Lame Duck session, the President suggested that a vote be undertaken then and there to raise and extend the debt ceiling."  The links you posted don't say anything about raising the debt ceiling during the lame duck after the tax cut deal, they only talk about how including a debt ceiling raise in the tax cut compromise was discussed but rejected.

      In any case, while Reid recommended punting on the debt ceiling until Republicans took over the House, the President was not obligated to take that advice and was clearly wrong to do so.  

      "I used to try to get things done by saying `please'. That didn't work and now I'm a dynamiter. I dynamite `em out of my path." - Huey Long

      by puakev on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 04:58:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Think you're hung up on the word 'after' (0+ / 0-)

        The coverage from the WSJ discussed what I thought was pretty widely disseminated after the election: some big compromise attached to the Bush tax cuts might involve a debt ceiling vote with secondary goals of freeing up the rest of the month to tackle other things on the agenda. That's what the diarist is discussing, and that's what Dem leaders in the Senate ultimately advised against. That might look unwise in the current light, but I've struggled to understand how people in hindsight, including Ezra Klein, can say it was an open-and-shut case.

        As a counterfactual, what if Obama had refused Reid's plea and insisted on a debt ceiling vote that tied the tax negotiations up for another two weeks and derailed Don't Ask Don't Tell or the START Treaty? Would that be an acceptable price? What if derailing the Lame Duck negotiations only hardened the Republican line, and we got nothing in return? We could potentially still be in the same fix, but with less stimulus in December 2010 and possibly the loss of DADT. I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but I don't think others definitively ruling on the matter do either.

      •  Perhaps I might be in the minority here... (0+ / 0-)

        But quite frankly, I think that lame duck congresses, and especially lame ducks in between a chamber flip, ought to just keep the essential lights on.

        I can understand, appreciate, and even come close to agreeing that such an idea ought to expect a firm foundation of presupposing the next crew capable of at least keeping the essential lights on - and the Tea-fueled GOP is suspect at best.

        However, TV schmaltz though it may be - I always liked that West Wing episode where a defeated Democrat refuses to vote against the wishes of his constituents on a bill that he had previously supported (and per the story, probably cost him reelection).

        For good or ill, I think that's what the nation should be.  

        That's not nihilism, that's not even just deserts - I just think it's the right thing to do.

        I will argue loudly when necessary, volunteer and donate to elect different people who will change course, and make compromises on who those people will be, but at the end of the day, I just don't think it was appropriate for the Democrats to do much in a lame duck.

        This all should have been done before the 2010 election, and FWIW, I think that would been the right political move as well.

        Full Disclosure: I am an unpaid shill for every paranoid delusion that lurks under your bed - but more than willing to cash any checks sent my way

        by zonk on Wed Jul 27, 2011 at 06:39:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  POTUS doesn't legislate, If Reid wasn't doing a (0+ / 0-)

        Debt limit vote, it wouldn't happen.

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