I can hardly keep track of what women are supposed to do these days. Abortion is evil. And yet, "This woman could not comprehend the ramifications of having eight children of the same age at the same time..."

An AOL poll tells us

What do you think of Angela Suleman's reaction to her daughter's choices?
Thumbs up 88%
Thumbs down 12%

Is it fair for people to criticize Nadya Suleman for how many kids she has?
Yes 90%
No 10%

people power granny wrote a diary earlier this evening asking us a few questions - Can humans have too many children? Aren't they like flowers?

As I walked home today from work, as usual I walked by the local abortion clinic.  A car was parked nearby.  Its bumper sticker said something like: "Saying there are too many children is like saying there are too many flowers."

Bumper-sticker lady/man:  A baby isn't a flower.  A flower is here today and gone tomorrow.  A child is here for upwards to 80 years or more.  A child usually reproduces and has more children.  Children grow into adults who consume more than a field of flowers will ever consume.  

She goes on to discuss the ramifications of overpopulation.

We have recently debated whether or not family planning counts as economic stimulus. I would argue that it does. But hey, maybe I'm wrong! Maybe pregnancy prevention is a bad thing for the economy? Check out some of these costs:

Costs for the average delivery of a full-term pregnancy range from $9,000 to $25,000, depending on whether the baby is delivered by Caesarean section or vaginally. Eight times $25,000 is a whopping $200,000.


For an infant stay in a neonatal intensive care unit, costs can add up to "a few thousand a day," she said.

"So we are looking at probably several hundreds of thousands of dollars for the family. If it is $100,000 per baby, for example, then it would be $800,000 for all eight," Swamy said. Link.

But what about this? Octuplets' Mom: Can She Afford to Raise 14 Kids? In other words, how dare she expect others to foot the bill for her desired lifestyle.

"That is pretty draconian, $500,000 is not a lot of money, particularly if there is no bonus," said James F. Reda, founder and managing director of James F. Reda & Associates, a compensation consulting firm. "And you know these companies that are in trouble are not going to pay much of an annual dividend." Link - with a h/t to openthread.

Only the uberwealthy white Wall Street guys are allowed to ask the rest of us to foot the bill for them. Didn't she get the memo? Fucking welfare queen.

I think Grandma gets down to the real issue here:

"It can't go on any longer," she said in a phone interview Friday. "She's got six children and no husband. I was brought up the traditional way. I firmly believe in marriage. But she didn't want to get married."

See, the problem with Nadya is that she didn't want to get married. She had the anti-abortion message down pat and she apparently found a doctor who was willing to take risks - now if only she'd had a husband.

She never expected so many of the implanted embryos would develop into fetuses, but rejected the idea of aborting some of them.

"What do you suggest she should have done?" Suleman told the Los Angeles Times. "She refused to have them killed. That is a very painful thing."

The confirmation that the woman used IVF to conceive the eight-pack is sure to raise an ethical furor.

The medical establishment has guidelines that discourage doctors from implanting too many embryos because multiple births are risky for mother and children. NY Daily News.

Who will help her change the diapers? I mean, a woman with six other children couldn't possible understand what she was getting herself into. There's just no way. She has to be "crazy".

Larry King has some questions - 1. How is she paying for this. 2. Is she married? 3. Why would someone with 6 children want more?

People are upset, you see, because the rumor is that she wanted to have these kids so she could get famous through media, so she could become a millionaire.

Her publicist appears on Larry King to respond to some of these criticisms:

Does the media ask these questions of the Duggar family? They just had their 18th child in December and they are already thinking about going for 19. Articles about this family tend to take a bit of a different tone. Instead of the "obsessed with having kids" stuff we get a lot of "How They Do It" and Big Love. And no one seems to mind the fact that they are making money off of a book about their huge family, or that they have their own TV show. Not a ton of "what were they thinking" stuff here...more respect for their religious views that apparently encourage them to have 20 gazillion children. They have MORE children than Nadya Suleman...but she's violating ethical laws and they are just celebrating God's gifts.

And what about the Gosselin family? Jon & Kate Plus Eight. Kate even has organizational tips for you. She's not only an amazing mom...she has time to work too! Of course, she's married, so I guess that's something to celebrate.

And according to Kate, God had a plan for them:

There was a lot I still did not know in that hospital bed at 26 weeks....and so much more! I did not know that when God chose to give us six babies, sextuplets, that when He assured us that He would provide for us, that He meant it would be the way He has. I am GLAD that I did not know that then! It would have been way too overwhelming for us! This journey has been so tough yet so amazing! God has taught us so many lessons yet has blessed us immeasurably!

"This woman could not comprehend the ramifications of having eight children of the same age at the same time," said Judith Horowitz, a Parkland, Fla.-based psychologist and author who works with couples on fertility issues. "After Pampers stops delivering the free diapers, then what?" Huffpo.

The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week conceived all 14 of her children through in vitro fertilization, is not married and has been obsessed with having children since she was a teenager, her mother said. AOL News

I honestly don't know what to think of this octuplet story. I don't think I have a firm opinion. There's too much I don't know at this point to form a firm or FAIR opinion. What I do know is that I've been observing the media response to this affair and every time I see a story about this woman, every time I see pundits or experts on TV talking about her and her choice - there is always some kind of insult attached. She doesn't know what she's doing. She's crazy. She's obsessed. She wasn't thinking. She's unhinged. She's going to exploit those children for monetary gain. And I can't help but think to myself that I don't remember these same messages when the Duggar's had their 18th child - and I don't remember hearing that "Kate" is crazy or obsessed.

This woman made a choice. It wasn't a choice I agree with, but here I am - pro-choice. I can say this for sure, I would never ever make the same choice she made. I respect her right to make this choice and yet at the same time, I have serious problems with it. Our planet can't sustain this kind of reproduction. What a quandary.

Oh, and while I was googling around for the links found in this diary, check this out: A Texas judge has set the conditions of a woman’s probation to include that she not have children.

Originally posted to Elise on Wed Feb 04, 2009 at 08:32 PM PST.

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