AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

Gephardt himself didn't have anything to do with this, but aide Joyce Aboussie threatened to undermine Missouri state workers' collective bargaining rights if AFSCME and SEIU campaign for Dean in Missouri.

Obviously there's going to be tension when different unions stump for different candidates, particularly on a candidates' home turf. But it appears that Aboussie crossed way over the line with what essentially amounts to blackmail -- and a pretty ugly form of it, too.

In a letter to Gephardt, D-Mo., Andrew Stern and Gerald McEntee accused Joyce Aboussie of promising to seek the reversal of an executive order that granted [Missouri state] employees collective bargaining rights. The union officials urged Gephardt to fire the St. Louis-based Aboussie from the campaign and issue a written retraction of her threats.

In their letter, Stern and McEntee said Aboussie warned them that if they worked for Dean in Missouri, she would prod at least 22 state legislators to write Republican leaders calling for repeal of the collective bargaining order. Republican state legislative leaders have tried and failed to challenge Holden's order in the courts and in the legislature.

Unfortunately, Gephardt refused to comment beyond saying that he supports collective bargaining. I hope he disavows such sentiments and listens to Gov. Holden, a supporter of Gephardt, who said, "It is my hope that all my friends who believe in the rights of workers can resolve their differences."

•  Dumb Question

  I don't know much about running a campaign, but isn't this a fundamentally stupid thing to do (as well as being morally reprehensible)?

  by a gilas girl on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 10:14:08 PM PDT

  •  Re: Dumb Question

    It's wrong on every level. I'd like to get Trappers take on this, but don't want to bother him with an E-mail about it.

    by Mike S on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 10:18:20 PM PDT

  •  Re: Dumb Question

    I agree... the fact that this is coming out of the campaign of a candidate with such a long and loyal history with Labor just adds another level of absurdity to it.  Threatening unions with loyalty or death is reprehensible for any campaign.

    by ChicagoDem on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 10:19:59 PM PDT

    •  Leftie for Gephardt???

      I've been on the record for Gephardt for a couple weeks here.

      This rises to the level of a "make or break" for me....and I'm looking to Gep for answers, and soon.

      My hunch is that he has a classic "loyalty" / "need to fire" dilemma...intertwined with a "how could something this stupid happen without the boss knowing about it?" / "do I pretend I didn't know about it?" subplot.

      Bottom line for me:  This rises to the level...and then some.  And it dovetails with some scuttlebutt I had heard about Gep not being happy with losing any labor endorsement. (which just scares me, because that's a stupid attitude)...So...

      If he removes Aboussie from his campaign, posthaste.  And if he clearly states that no candidate owns labor and unions should be free to endorse who they CHOOSE.
      And if he can clearly condemn the Aboussie move..and establish that it was not his doing. (and how you do this plausibly is tough)...

      he MIGHT prove he has the morals and the cojones to stick it out and keep folks like me on board.

      Bottom Line: There's no reason to support Dick Gephardt if the story is true as told and Dick endorsed the ultimatum.  It's that simple.

      by kid oakland on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 11:21:00 PM PDT

      •  Re: Leftie for Gephardt???

        My hunch is that he has a classic "loyalty" / "need to fire" dilemma...intertwined with a "how could something this stupid happen without the boss knowing about it?" / "do I pretend I didn't know about it?" subplot.

        Please refer to my posting in the latest Cattle Call on this.

        by Felix Deutsch on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 11:52:39 PM PDT

      •  Re: Leftie for Gephardt???

        This woman has been with Gephardt for 20 years that I know of.  Be kinda hard for him to fire her, but he should publically censure her.

        by bbuster on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 12:15:22 AM PDT

        •  Re: Leftie for Gephardt???

          IMHO, if Gep does not cut ties with the woman, and openingly disavow the act (and sound believable) ... the St Louis local press piece is pretty much a full set of nails, he is further discredited.  For many of us this was a questionable run in any case.
          Now?...

          by Marisacat on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 12:36:44 AM PDT

•  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

  Kos,

  I am not certain I even care but will post this once:

  I suspect "Vthouse" is Humanik the depressed enraged loser of court cases in VT.

  This is his third handle.  JD was earlier and there is a mid day one as well.

  I really suggest banning this one. If possible, which is always a ?

  I'll also bother to mention I am slowly swearing off diaries.  I don't want to be too surprised the day I take a glance to the right column and notice it is entirely opportunistic drain clogging by paid operatives or unhinged partisans.
  It is heading that way in a speed boat on an inland waterway.

  But, what. ever.

  by Marisacat on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 10:29:01 PM PDT

  •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

    That last spate of postings looked like the work of a bot. It's not trolling, it's even worse: crapflooding, another malicious behavior that's been around for a while.

    If you study a website and learn how it accepts input, it's trivial to write a script that submits content automatically.

    by Outlandish Josh on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 10:38:21 PM PDT

    •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

      If Markos were to ask him not to post here under any name anymore, and he did, would whoever owns the isp's that he uses be able to shut him down? He said in the past he owns some sort of mail server, so I don't know what the rules are.

      by Mike S on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 10:48:43 PM PDT

      •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

        If Markos were to ask him not to post here under any name anymore, and he did, would whoever owns the isp's that he uses be able to shut him down?

        They would be able to, but they wouldn't normally do it. For good reasons, I might add.

        Mailservers don't come into play here.

        by Felix Deutsch on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 11:57:10 PM PDT

      •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

        Not real easy to do.

        If he/she were on a static IP, it would be easy to block. My guess the offender is on a dynamic (changing) ip address and blocking him/her would mean blocking a whole range of IPs, potentially keeping legit uses off the site.

        There are also measures one can take in response to a crapflood, like limiting the number of comments a user can post to one every three minutes. I think scoop makes this possible.

        by Outlandish Josh on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 03:01:19 AM PDT

  •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

    It may be that idiot as well, but he has been here as a number of Bill's with a few other names as well. It's what happens when you put internet access in a school for troubled children.

    by Mike S on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 10:43:42 PM PDT

    •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

      Hey!  Not all of us Bill's are bad...

      by mccbill on Wed Dec 03, 2003 at 11:57:22 PM PDT

•  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

  The public calling out of this by Stern and McEntee is kinda funny....

  The whole "you send one of ours to the hospital, we send one of yours to the mourge" idea.  

  That said, if it's true it's best it came out.  This is something that threatens unions on a non-political sphere, and if Stern and McEntee are right, then Gephardt stands a chance of alienating the unions that he already has... Unless this is an effort to stab SEIU and AFSCME in the back or something by the Gephardt labor people.

  by Sauceman on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 01:20:12 AM PDT

•  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

  I'm not certain it's true.  If it is, she should get the ax, because threatening collective bargaining rights is fundamentally wrong.  But the whole thing reminds me -- just a little -- of the bogus "Gephardt gay-bashing" smear that the Dean campaign tried to pull a couple of months ago.  Remember that?  People were demanding that heads roll in the Gephardt campaigtn -- that is, until it became evident that every third party witness supported the Gephardt account, making it clear that the Dean campaign had made up the entire "scandal."

  by Trapper John on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 12:46:51 PM PDT

  •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

    One thing on the gay bashing thing.  I never got the impression that the "campaign" made up the scandal.  I got the impression that maybe the "campaign" got a bad report from its guy who inflated what happened.  They should have checked facts first which is where they really screwed up.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but that was the most logical explanation I saw.  And I do think it was a bogus charge in the end.

    by seamus on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 07:02:02 PM PDT

  •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

    I certainly don't remember any third-party witnesses supporting the account of the Gephardt campaign re the 'faggot' remark, i.e. that it nbever happened.

    What remained undisputed, however, was that the Dean staffer was kicked out by force for nothing.

    by Felix Deutsch on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 07:25:03 PM PDT

    •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

      See, that's just not true.  He wasn't kicked out by force.

      by Trapper John on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 07:45:29 PM PDT

    •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

      There was a report that came out the next day that basically said the Dean staffer was being disruptive and the Gep folks asked him to either stop disrupting or leave and he refused to do so.  The scuffle grew out of that.  

      I don't know if the comment was verified or not, it may well have been, but it was clearly not the case that the Dean campaign staffer was harrassed "for nothing".

      by a gilas girl on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 08:36:20 PM PDT

      •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

        The report said that it (accepting a phone call during a speech, and actually trying to nondesruptive about) was "described as disruptive" by the Gephardt team.

        So I guess the Gebhardt people showed some nerves.

        By writing "nothing", I was trying to say that the harassment was absolutely uncalled for.

        And it is simply not true that it somehow emerged that the Dean campaign (or the staffer) must have made it up.

        By this article, it seems that the Dean staffer left when he was asked to during the phone incident (to complete his call outside), but when he returned to the press conference he was removed by force.

        This I call an overreaction, and Outlandish Josh (dKos member) knows the staffer and believes him.

        That's good enough for me. Your mileage may vary.

        by Felix Deutsch on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 10:21:55 PM PDT

        •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

          I read a report from a reporter who was there (but I don't have a link) that suggested the guy had been disruptive throughout the event.

          In any event it wasn't "nothing", but then, bad cell phone etiquette is one of the things that I think people should be put in the stockades for.  

          Its not that I don't trust the people at dKos, but I do think a dean supporter who knows the dean staffer is probably more likely to accept the dean staffer's version than he or she might be to entertain the possibility that the guy was being disruptive.  So, its all still a matter of evaluating sources.

          So, you've said he wasn't called a "faggot" and I said he wasn't asked to leave for "nothing".  No matter what, the actual event was a very different one than the original report and uproar suggested, which I think was Trapper John's point.  

          This labor thing sounds much more serious, but it is also true that I have little to no faith in first or second day reports on anything these days.  Perhaps Trapper John is right, although this seems too serious to be completely contrived.    

          by a gilas girl on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 10:48:37 PM PDT

    •  Re: AP: Gephardt Aide Threatens Unions

      This was well documented in accounts after - you can easily google it.  Trippi came out in a blaze of demands of firing this person and that person for what amounted to an incident started by a Dean campaign staffer.

      Ah forget it, I am going to the Soviet Union for Holiday and must get up early tomorrow for my flight to the Soviet Union as I hear that the Soviet Union is nice this time of year, see you all when I get back from the Soviet Union.

      by jg on Thu Dec 04, 2003 at 09:57:42 PM PDT