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"Remain calm. AAAWWWWWWWWWWWWW! " A special message from our very own Minister of Fear, courtesy of animator Mark Fiore. “AAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! We might have to disrupt the democratic process because terrorists want to disrupt the democratic process.”

It's Friday. Karl Rove's favorite day for bad news. Perhaps the video of children at Abu Ghraib will be released around 5 p.m. EDT.

Consider this your early morning Open Thread.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 02:12 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  LOL... (none)
    Perfect.  I don't think the point can be made any better than that.

    There is a heaven, but ill never get there... i keep respawning...

    by Sandals on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 02:37:22 AM PDT

  •  Okay... (none)
    That one is absolutely brilliant.  I haven't liked his stuff very much in the past, but that captures it perfectly.  Bravo!!!
  •  speaking of bad news... (none)
    there's been so much of it lately that Scott McLellan's press briefings have become less and less frequent. That's one way to dodge the awkward questions (e.g. those "accidentally destroyed" military microfilms).

    Good old Helen Thomas was persisting with questions about secret detainees, but as usual Scotty stonewalled:

    MR. McCLELLAN: ...

    Go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry, Helen. Go ahead.

    Q Does the President -- does the United States harbor or hold secret detainees who are not available to the International Red Cross?

    MR. McCLELLAN: Actually, this is an issue that came up earlier in the week and I talked about it at that point. When it comes to the International Committee for the Red Cross, we work very closely with them on detainee issues, and we --

    Q I have a follow-up.

    MR. McCLELLAN: Okay -- we stay in close and regular contact with the Red Cross on all the issues related to detainees. And they do, from time to time, raise issues and we work to address those issues directly --

    Q Why don't you answer the question? Do we have secret detainees and is it possible that they could be subjected to the same treatment as in Baghdad prisons?

    MR. McCLELLAN: We work to address these issues that the Red Cross raises directly with the Red Cross. And any issues that they have, we respond directly to the --

    Q That's not the answer to the question.

    MR. McCLELLAN: -- Red Cross. We meet with them on a regular basis at a variety of levels, and we stay in close and constant contact with them. And I really don't have anything else to add to this issue.

    Q You don't know whether we have secret detainees --

    MR. McCLELLAN: Like I said, Helen, I don't have anything else to add to this issue.


    Remember when BushCo was blaming the Red Cross for not releasing prisoner abuse data, and the IRC said not at all, they were happy to have it released?

    You may say
    I ain't free
    But it don't worry me

    by Paolo on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 02:40:47 AM PDT

    •  Classification & Need to Know (none)
      I think that much of the ongoing investigation of the Plame affair is not centered on the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 which has explicit penalties for outing an agent. Instead, as the Letter from Democrats that asked for an investigation focuses, most of the investigation has to do with violations of Executive Order 12958 which is about classifying information and preserving secrecy.

      While I think Rove does have a security clearance (and has violated 12958), my guess is that McClellan has expressly not been given any clearance so that he can honestly say "I know nothing".

      Thus officially or unofficially McClellan really cannot answer tough questions like whether there exist secret prisons.
      •  Serious Question.... (none)
        I care about this issue and most of the Kos people care about it, but how many of the kool aid drinking FOX watchers out there are going to raise any objection about it?
      •  But that isn't what McLellan (none)
        said, is it?

        You don't really believe he avoids answering questions because he's cognizant of let alone concerned with the rule of law do you?

        What one does get from such exchanges -- clearly -- is that he is avoiding important questions.  And that is stonewalling.  And that is saying to the US populace, "Go fuck yourself."

        Otherwise, he could have answered, "I can't answer that question because I haven't security clearance, therefore would be violating [law] and [EO] were I to do so."

        A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

        by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:11:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Saying "I don't have clearance" (none)
          could be interpreted as a "maybe". The last thing he wants to see in the media (well, besides "yes") is maybe.
          •  Stonewalling (none)

            The problem with this is that, while saying "I don't have clearance" means "maybe", stonewalling means "yes, but I can't tell you about it because we ARE doing the same things to them we did in Abu Ghraib."

            •  I guess (none)
              they think that saying "We're telling the Red Cross, we don't have to tell you." is better than saying "I'm not allowed to tell anyone."

              I don't know. I don't even pretend to come close to understanding what's going on in their heads, I can just see them using that as a reason for the stonewalling.

    •  I LOVE HELEN THOMAS (none)
      a WMD !
      Weapon of the Media Damn shes good

      "If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you suck seed."--Curly Howard

      by JackAshe on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:03:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You Go GIRL !!!!!!!!! (3.80)

      "If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you suck seed."--Curly Howard

      by JackAshe on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:15:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  a true-false test (none)
      and the answer wasn't "false."

      Anyone can do the math.  

      This non-answer is just like the one President Bush gave at the G8 summit in Georgia on June 10, 2004 when asked about torture.  (emphasis is mine)

      Q Mr. President, I wanted to return to the question of torture. What we've learned from these memos this week is that the Department of Justice lawyers and the Pentagon lawyers have essentially worked out a way that U.S. officials can torture detainees without running afoul of the law. So when you say that you want the U.S. to adhere to international and U.S. laws, that's not very comforting. This is a moral question: Is torture ever justified?

      THE PRESIDENT: Look, I'm going to say it one more time. If I -- maybe -- maybe I can be more clear. The instructions went out to our people to adhere to law. That ought to comfort you. We're a nation of law. We adhere to laws. We have laws on the books. You might look at those laws, and that might provide comfort for you. And those were the instructions out of -- from me to the government.

      Again it's a true-false/yes-no question and the answer wasn't False (or No).  That only leaves True (or Yes).  Simple as that.

      •  It's also the fact that calling Bushit (none)
        "President" reinforces the lie that he is, and thus is legitimate.

        Read the Constitution: he is neither.

        The treasonous SC 5 notwithstanding.

        A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

        by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:11:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'm surprised... (none)
        ...he just didn't say: "Take comfort in our strength."
        Which is a pain reliever, I think Tylenol, slogan. The stench of bullshit must permeate the grounds at 1600 Penn. Ave., at least it's good for the soil.

        George W. Bush unelected, false leader. Your days are numbered.

        by MichaelPH on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 09:29:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm taking jackassery from PABAAH at 5am (none)
    They can't even admit they were wrong on ONE small thing...(shameless plug to get you guys to look at my diary (can i plug my diary in an open thread? (how many parenthesis within parenthesis am i allowed to have?)))

    All other news has been cancelled.

    You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

    by mattman on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 03:15:13 AM PDT

    •  More non-news (none)
      at 11.

      Unless you'd rather watch something else, such as actual entertainment untainted by factual stuff like actual news.

      A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

      by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:14:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  so help me god... (none)
        WHy am I seeing helicopter footage of the SUV that is carrying Martha to court on CNN??? Is there nothing better to do?  Don't start the story until you have something more to show than traffic!!!
    •  Damn (none)
      How will I find out what's happening with Whoopi Goldberg?  Should I drink Slim-Fast or not?

      "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

      by BigOkie on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:52:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  UK polling in turmoil (none)

    There has just been two by-elections in the UK, in  two 'safe' Labour seats.

    The turn out at both polls was pitiful, and the Liberal Democrats took one seat with a swing of 21% and failed to take the other seat with a swing of 26% - ironically they were denied victory by an independent anti-war candidate.

    The turnout at the polls was 41% and 38% which explains the massive swing.

    Good, quick, cheap. Choose two.

    by Danack on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 03:18:11 AM PDT

  •  I, Robot opens (none)
    The Robots are taking over.  Only Will Smith can save us.

    No, really.  

    Only Will Smith can save us.  

    That's it.  

    He is the Iraq exit plan.  

    Big manilla folder in the OSP office that says:




    Big picture inside of the Fresh Prince himself.

    •  I, Robot=good (none)
      I just saw the midnight showing of it. Damn the critics, I liked it a lot.
    •  maybe it's good (none)
      on it's own, but Asimov is spinning in his grave ....

      he would NEVER have written a robots-run-amok story ...

      without love, a hearbeat is just a clock marking time

      by Madman in the marketplace on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 04:43:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, I was going to say.... (4.00)
        Read the books.  They're really very good.

        Then go to the Foundation series. Man what I'd do to have a summer ahead of me with all those unread.

        It wouldn't be as good as the summer I read everything I could from Steinbeck and Hemmingway, but still.

        "Just because we were whipped a thousand years ago is no reason to stop trying now." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

        by paradox on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:01:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry, (none)
        But you had to know this wasn't going to be a faithful adaptation of the series.
        If it was, this could be a nice little $20M
        indie work of art.
        But when the studio announced that it was going to be a $150M budgeted flick with Will Smith starring, you just know it's going to be the typical steriod-pumped exercise in big things going BOOM!  

        Still, taking the above into account, it looks good and I intend to see it as well.

        Why, is that Don Rumsfeld? Nah. Can't be. The United States doesn't negotiate with terrorists.

        by Jank2112 on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:27:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If it had been a faithful adaption... (none)
          I would've gone.  But I love Asimov too much.  Oh well.  I still think Caves of Steel is dying to be turned into a movie, and has great cinematic potential.

          There's something wild about you child that's so contagious. Let's be outrageous! Let's misbehave! -Dick Cheney to Bush

          by teenagedallasdeaniac on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:10:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ellison and Asimov (none)
            actually worked together on a possible screenplay; it's now available in some bookstores.

            Might be worth a glimpse...

            "If this be treason, make the most of it." -- Patrick Henry

            Prune the Shrub!

            by Cali Scribe on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 02:57:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Harlan Ellison (none)
              is one of my favorite writers ever. One of the reasons Babylon 5 is one of the best science fictions tv shows ever was his consulting.

              "I Have No Mouth & I Must Scream" - sheer genius

              His book on "City On the Edge of Forever", one of the best Star Trek episodes, includes his original screenplay and essays on his battles w/ Roddenberry. Check it out.

              without love, a hearbeat is just a clock marking time

              by Madman in the marketplace on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 04:48:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Awwww: Relevant daily scribble (4.00)
    •  When you tell AQ over and over that (none)
      an attack will disrupt elections and maybe cause them to be cancelled, aren't you telling them exactly what they need to do to cause us the most grief?

      Haven't ShrubCo (or its supporters) gone after anyone pointing out weak spots in security as 'aiding' AQ (if you tell them this plant is vulnerable, you're helping them)?

      "We cannot out-psycho Al Queda" -- Jon Stewart

      by sendtoscott on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:57:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes. Every time I hear these idiots (none)
        go into detail about how terrorists might attack, I have the sneaking suspicion that they are issuing the terrorists an invitation.

        Or at least soliciting their assistance.

        "[A]dhering to the enemy" is the phrase in the Constitution.  And it sure does look like they are giving away "state secrets" or talking too much by giving specifics as substitutes for "non-specific" "threats".

        If they don't realize they are doing that, they are beyond incompetent and stoopid.

        A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

        by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:15:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  *PLEASE* don't throw me in that briar patch (none)
        b'rer bin Ladin! ANYTHING but that!
  •  Hate to do this, but (3.88)
    In light of Tucker Carlson's referring to John Edwards' past work as "Jacuzzi cases," it might be pointed out that James Baker's granddaughter died two years ago when she was caught in a whirlpool drain and drowned.
    •  This is not the end of this (none)
      Not by a long shot.

      I can do a few things--the first of which is to use Tucker's BB balls as part of a shotgun blast at The Left Coaster. Then let the gang holding the fort at Eschaton know.

      It's something--a lot better than nothing.  Part of my soul just snapped reading this.  His television compatriot prostitues may cover for him, but I swear to God the blogs are going to crucify that little shit.

      Hamletta, as always, it is a real joy to see you in the threads, ma'am.  Please have a good day, and know that in 111 days that little war felon is going to get humiliated.  Utterly.

      "Just because we were whipped a thousand years ago is no reason to stop trying now." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

      by paradox on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:08:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Find the fallacy (none)
      Many in the pool and spa industry thought the Peterson jury had missed the point. "The Sta-Rite judgment was absurd," says Bill Kent, president of Horner Equipment, a manufacturer and distributor of pool products based in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. "I think ultimately [individuals] should be responsible for their own activities. And as long as [products] are safe in the normal use pattern, I think, morally and ethically, we can feel good about them. But the court has decided that something bad has happened, so someone has to pay for it."

      Give up? Notice the missing sentence right after "And as long as [products] are safe in the normal use pattern..." He never stated that they are safe in the normal use pattern. He never stated that the injured kids had violated the normal use pattern. He never bothered to define what a normal use pattern is. Instead he waves a red herring around, claiming that the court is trying to make a company pay for what was an act of nature. Of course, nature would have behaved differently if the manufacturers inserted extra screws (as in the Lakey case prosecuted successfully by Edwards) or built in an automatic shutoff device, or designed a pair of inlets rather than one.

      Of course, the talk about responsibility is designed to distract listeners from thinking about the responsibility of the speaker. Where have we seen that before?

      "I look at the world and I see that it's turning... with every mistake we must surely be learning." - George Harrison

      by AlanF on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:16:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  WWJ(Edwards)D? (4.00)
      a verrrrry interesting conversation with a colleague yesterday-he is a conservative (not the neo variety) and a high ranking Natl Guard officer, lifelong Republican.
      over the last year it has been interesting to watch his growing frustration with BushCo turn into disgust. he told me yesterday he wouldn't vote for Bush, wasn't completely sure that he could vote for Kerry, but was warming up to the idea.

      Now, the point: his take on the "Edwards trial lawyer" smear-"I think he was just doing his job, and he did the best job that he could for his clients, and he helped some people who had really been harmed. and the juries awarded the money to those families, not to him. I don't see how you can criticize him for making a lot of money that way, especially when you look at how both Bush and Cheney made their fortunes."


      More sh*t here than one fan can handle!

      by susanp on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:54:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's exactly why I make a point (4.00)
        of talking to people.  Strangers, friends -- doesn't matter.

        If I can cause a stranger to think, that's the intent.  If I can give a friend some summative "slogans" I've distilled, terrific -- it gives them pointed thought-provoking tidbits to pass on to others.  This one's a bit long, but it's for those in the military:

        The Geneva Conventions were written, formost, to protect our troops should they become POWs.  Bush's contempt for the Geneva Conventions is equaled by his contempt for the troops, from whom he removed the Conventions' protections.

        Therefore, one can support Bush, or one can support the troops.  But one cannot support both.

        A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

        by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:21:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  drowning (none)
      is no fun.  when i was 3 my face got sucked onto a drain in a children's pool, and they had to do mouth-to-mouth.  this was 46 years ago.  you would think that in 40+ years the industry could figure out how to keep that from happening.

      maybe that's why i'm a dem while my parents are dyed-in-the-wool repubs.

      •  That Pool & Spa News article (none)
        The article lays out a few ways they could make the drains safer: Better grates, two drains instead of one, vacuum-sensitive automatic shutoff.

        Speaking as a scientist, etc., these all sound like reasonable things to demand of the industry (or at least an individual manufacturer who got sued). I actually don't understand why prior litigation over this matter hasn't forced companies to fix the design flaws--especially since obvious "layers of protection" they could add are already known.

        My thesis advisor does a lot of expert-witnessing on matters of mechanical failure and I sometimes help him out in the lab with tests related to his cases. At least once that I can remember, we were testing a court-mandated redesign of a trigger lock that had been deemed unsafe at a trial (or it may have been part of a settlement--regardless, a judge ordered it and we did the tests).

        Maybe I didn't understand the purpose of our work. (I'm mostly a pair of hands with opinions about science and doing good experiments--I don't deal with the lawyers, the depositions, or the trial.) But if a court can mandate fixes to a trigger lock, why not a pool?

        Any lawyers want to explain this to me?

        Oh, one more thing. Working on these cases, I've seen negligent design and manufacturing practices lead to some unbelievably tragic accidents: maimings, burnings-to-death, crushed children, accidental shootings, ... just horrible stuff. Lawyers like Edwards and the ones who hire my advisor do vital work and deserve much more credit than they get. Because the sad truth is that many corporations have absolutely no interest in making safe products.

        I'm &y and I approved this message.

        by abw on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 03:25:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Our democracy (none)
    is hanging by a thread and most of the citizens don't even know or care, AMAZING!
    Just wait, they will eventually, then it will be too late.
    •  I wish I could read minds (none)
      so I could know how "most" citiens think and feel.

      Share your secret.  Tell us how you do it.

      A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

      by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:21:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I look at (none)
        the asshole in the WH, that tells me all I need to know.
        I hope that clears everything up for you, any more questions feel free to ask.
        KERRY/EDWARDS 2004
  •  i've been up all night working on a brief (4.00)
    and I didn't think my fingers could type any more...but I guess I was wrong.

    I'm having one of those surreal moments when your brain is going slowly and you see yourself doing things and it's like you're watching yourself in slow motion.


    I loathe republicans. And I state this as an across-the-board blanket hate filled diatribe. Sue me!

    I never said it was original.

    "The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's job to interpret law." -George W. Bush

    by DemoCratic on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 04:05:03 AM PDT

  •  Need an early morning rise? (none)
  •  Shameless Early Show whoring (none)
    They had a "news" item about Cheney and the dropout speculation. They lied that the race was a "dead heat" and they did nothing but show fawning video clips of Bush (with a very red nose) over and over and over, as crowds went wild over the two murderers. Then they said that "economic conservatives" would be upset if Cheney were replaced. Yeah, cause we all know how much Bush cares about deficits and small government, right?
    •  Who would be running for Prez (none)
      if Dick "go fuck yourself" Cheney drops out?
    •  Well, it was a dead heat. (none)
      But gotta watch one's tenses.  "Was" is past tense.  So if they said "was," they were correct.

      But, as everyone should know by now, though he who forgets the "was" is condemned to repeat it, it is the "is" that most matters.

      A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

      by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:26:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That Depends (none)
        On what your definition of "is" is.


        Whoopi Goldberg was chastised and fired for making jokes about "Bush". Just wondering if "Clenis" is a joke about "Clinton" and his "Penis" (CL/ENIS) and who dreamed that lovely term? Was it the Republicans? Somebody else? Is there rampant hypocrisy in politics (the last question is rhetorical).

  •  Does Ron Fournier spin 100% of the time? (none) rinter=1

    This article, which is supposed to be about Hillary, instead becomes about how Kerry "bungled" the release of the speakers' names (at least according to Mikulski's loudmouthed spokesman - I guess we know now that when "Babs" gets an honor, she responds by crapping all over the nominee), and how his black ads hit a "snag" thanks to the CBC.

    Once again the Dems are painted as tearing each other apart while the GOP is unified.

    •  Re: Does Ron Fournier spin 100% of the time? (2.50)
      "Does Ron Fournier spin 100% of the time?"

      Ron Fournier is the single best non-pundit pure political reporter in the country.

      Sorry you don't like what he's reporting.  I've noticed that you have a tendency to blame messengers.

      •  Some of the "messengers" I blame are... (none)
        Jodi Wilgoren, Elisabeth Bullimer, Adam Nagourney, Nedra Pickler...if you get thrills out of these people, then bully for you.

        I haven't seen any articles from this guy that don't have this kind of slant. He dragged in completely extrenous items solely to paint a picture of Kerry being disorganized and hated by his party. Again, if you enjoy that, no wonder you have such a high opinion of this guy.

        •  Oh, BTW Petey, (none)
          I always defended you when people used to attack you on here 24/7. I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of me. I never realized you thought so little of me.
        •  Re: Some of the "messengers" I blame (none)
          "I haven't seen any articles from this guy that don't have this kind of slant. He dragged in completely extrenous items solely to paint a picture of Kerry being disorganized and hated by his party. Again, if you enjoy that, no wonder you have such a high opinion of this guy."

          He's covering his beat of the day, which is about putting the convention together.  I don't think it's his fault that lots of Dems decided to make unproductive news.

          If the Republicans put their convention together in a similarly messy way, I'm 100% he'd write a similar piece.


          Bumiller and Nagourney are also good, although not on Fournier's level.  Pickler is scum.

          •  What's good about Bullimer?? (none)
            Did you read the article she wrote about Bush being "ready and happy on the rodeo" as some sign that he was going to tear down the campaign trail? Or the one where she implied that gays should vote for Bush or they are selfish, one-issuers? Or the one where she said that Bush looked "sad" when he endorsed the FMA, and hey, he has lots of gay friends, so don't be mad at him?

            I'm sorry you have such a dilemma with how I express myself. This is how I've always been. Maybe that makes me a loser, I don't know. I've been called worse.

            •  Re: What's good about Bullimer?? (none)
              "I'm sorry you have such a dilemma with how I express myself."

              not on this thread, James.  on the racial threads this evening.


              Bumiller has the White House gossip beat.  And if you expect her to write articles slamming Bush for various war crimes, well, that's just not her beat.

              She covers her beat well, crafts entertaining stories, and is a good writer.  case closed for me.  there are some things in Washington that don't filter down nicely into partisan sides.

              In cases like this, imagine how you'd want a President of your own party to be covered on that type of beat.

              •  I don't remember the White House beat (none)
                being kind to Clinton. Nor do I remember him/her guilt-tripping people if they didn't approve of Clinton signing DOMA.

                As for the rest, I spoke my opinion in those threads, and tried my best to back up my opinion with facts. And as a result, it was the same old charges of racism, of lies, and of deceit.

                •  Re: I don't remember the White House beat (none)
                  "As for the rest, I spoke my opinion in those threads, and tried my best to back up my opinion with facts. And as a result, it was the same old charges of racism, of lies, and of deceit."

                  In response to the your dissing of Fournier, I said:

                  "Sorry you don't like what he's reporting.  I've noticed that you have a tendency to blame messengers."

                  I'm not sure how any of this involves a charge "of racism, of lies, and of deceit."  Instead I accused you of having the tendency of blaming the messengers who bring bad news.

                  I think those are two very different sets of charges.


                  And I'll make a new charge:  you sure do seem to like to fight, especially today.

                  •  Um, Petey... (2.00)
                    you mentioned the racial threads. That's what I was respondong to, when you said you were upset with my comments in the racial threads.

                    Why are you bringing up comments from this thread when you said you were unhappy about the racial thread?

                    •  Re: Um, Petey... (4.00)
                      "Why are you bringing up comments from this thread when you said you were unhappy about the racial thread? "

                      because after i mentioned that, we began chatting about Bumiller and Fournier.

                      you seem a bit over the top all over the place right now, to be honest.  best of luck with the sleep thang.

                      •  I know what we were talking about, (none)
                        but you said specifically that you were upset with the race thread. So I commented on what you were upset with. Then you said that you weren't talking about that at all???

                        Before you go praising jnagayra to the skies, you may want to read his/her comments, especially about women and his/her's perpetual statements that gays and women are all selfish and that anyone who opposes the FMA hates and dishonors American soldiers. Do you agree with that, Petey? Is that why you gave her/him a 4?

            •  Just once, JamesB3, (1.80)
              I'd like to see a post from you which was about something other than the no-chance FMA, or gay issues.

              Like, you know, stuff outside your self-centered monomanic focus on only your shit, and screw everyone else.

              While at the same time whining that no one gives a shit about your one-note "only my issue matters".

              I've pointed this out before now (as have others), but you conveniently ignore the point -- exactly as you totally ignore others' concerns while whing that they should take on your one-note battle.

              Your political approach not only sucks, it alienates.  And what is the consequence?  You find yourself isolated, sitting in a corner whining and sucking your thumb, becuase "no one cares" because they don't make you and your monotonous one-note song about the inconsequential their central and only concern.

              Grow up and smarten: if you will only tell others "go fuck yourself" when the issue is there's, you practically demand the exact same response to your issue.

              Doubtless you'll again conveniently avoid the issue by ignoring this making of the point.  Go right ahead: it won't make your self-centered myopia any more palatable.

              A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

              by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:35:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I have posted many times about (none)
                issues that don't involve gays, or the FMA.

                I guess that someone who believes all women and feminists are selfish and a drag to the Dem party, and who believes that anyone who is upset about the FMA is somehow hating on dead US soldiers wouldn't understand the nuance.

              •  aoeu (4.00)
                How can I sell the Brooklyn Bridge with you under it?

                I love box turtles
                so much it pains me that I
                cannot marry them

                by TealVeal on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:02:19 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  "Painted"? (none)
      I agree that you're attacking the messenger about this piece.  It was the Democratic Black Caucus, and the NY Democratic Chair and the Demoratic Mikulski' spokesman that made these comments and Mr. Fournier reported it.

      Look, I don't want a leftist version of Fox news, a slanted and apologetic group of leftist reporters covering up for Democrats.  The truth is what I want to see and read.  If we have a few warts, then so what.

      Call it spin, but it looks like balanced reporting to me.

      •  Nope. (none)
        My problem was that they packaged these 2 stories together, even though they had little in common. The whole point was to make Kerry look foolish and unpopular in his party.
        •  Kerry in Common (4.00)
          The story was about Kerry and the disent focused towards him by Democratic operatives over the past 24 hours.  You're wrong James, and it ain't just me telling you that...but I guess you know more then all of us combined.
    •  hmm... (none)
      This article doesn't seem spun to me.  What suggests that to you?

      Desire is half of life; indifference is half of death. -Kahlil Gibran

      by tryptamine on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:00:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Did the marriage amendment demonstrate (none)
      GOP unity? "They" (meaning the media) should talk about the disarray this issue is causing the Republican Party.

      Pop-gun president lying with impunity, soundbyte policies and photo opportunities

      by Dave the Wave on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 09:01:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Election ironies (4.00)
    Afghanistan- people trying to register to vote are killed by terrorists.  The official government only controls one city.  The election must go on!
    Iraq- Car bombings kill tens of people daily.  The government is safe inside only a part of the capital.  The schedule for a democratic Iraq must not be derailed!
    US- There's some increased terrorist chatter.  Better make plans to cancel that election!
  •  South Korean Lawmakers Demand Bush Apology (none)
    A multi-partisan group of 49 lawmakers from South Korea's ruling Uri Party and opposition Grand National, Democratic Labor and Millennium Democratic Parties have asked their country's National Assembly to demand an immediate apology from United States President George Bush.

    Patridiot Watch
    The best blog ever written by Poppy McCool.

    by poppymccool on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 05:13:13 AM PDT

  •  Wafer Watch (none)
    Kerry's Catholicism makes A1 of the WaPo, and, as usual, the secular press gets it all wrong.
  •  This just in (none)
    Attorney General Ashcroft Seeks New Provision To Increase Scope Of Patriot Act

    AP-US Attorney General John Ashcroft today asked Congress to expand the scope of powers granted in the Patriot Act.  As the act stands now, government law enforcement agencies are able to subpoena library and bookstore records to see what type of materials a suspect may be studying.  But Ashcroft believes that this doesn't go far enough.  "Now that everyone has those supermarket discount cards, which effectively track all purchases for an individual, I believe that we should have the right to subpoena grocery records also," stated the Attorney General.  Ashcroft believes that these records can be used, for example, to see if a suspect has purchased any suspicious cuttlery or kitchen utensils which could be used in the hijacking of an airplane.  He also stated that the lack of pork purchases for a suspect could give strong indications of a proclivity to the Muslim faith.  "We need these expanded powers to have a full picture of the suspect," Ashcroft said.  It is not clear if these new provisions will pass Congressional scrutiny.

    George W. Bush - The first President to speak English as a second language

    by wry twinger on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 05:28:37 AM PDT

    •  Is this real? (none)
      Honestly, it's hard to tell anymore.
      •  That's the point (none)
        when it comes to the point where you can't tell sarcasm from the reality of our current administration, all is not well in Bushland.

        (By the way I did make it up, but, no, it wouldn't surpise me if he came out with something along those lines.  And if he does, then I get credit for scooping it.)

        George W. Bush - The first President to speak English as a second language

        by wry twinger on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:26:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You left out the possible (none)
          downside, and the political consequences and fallout for the "fair and balanced" relationship between the US and Israel: pork is not kosher for Jews.

          Wouldn't it cause an uproar if Johnny "Crisco Calico" Asscrafty accidently profiled, arrested, and tortured a Jew?

          A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

          by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:45:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Joke's on Ashcroft (none)
      I only pay cash at small, locally owned grocery stores.  I can only imagine the al Qaida guys don't have much in their checking accounts any way.
  •  Nice (none)
    And Fiore puts one in the bleacher seats, yet again.
  •  officially sanctioned memory hole (3.50)
    have y'all heard about the exchange on the floor of the House yesterday? Seems Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla, spoke some truth and the folks on the other side of the aisle freaked out and decided to, once again, alter history to fix things.

    "I come from Florida, where you and others participated in what I call the United States coup d'etat. We need to make sure it doesn't happen again," Brown said. "Over and over again after the election when you stole the election, you came back here and said, 'Get over it.' No, we're not going to get over it. And we want verification from the world."

    At that point, Buyer demanded that Brown's words be "taken down," or removed the debate's permanent record.

    The House's presiding officer, Rep. Mac Thornberry, R-Texas, ruled that Brown's words violated a House rule.

    "Members should not accuse other members of committing a crime such as, quote, stealing, end quote, an election," Thornberry said.

    When Brown objected to his ruling, the Republican-run House voted 219-187 along party lines to strike her words.

    •  Even Words Can Be Hidden (none)
      I hope the cable news networks show this tape over and over today since the words will never be part of the official record.  Do the Republicans think this means we will not remember what was done in 2000 or what was said yesterday?  Isn't it a crime when all of the votes are not counted?
      •  It's certainly a crime (none)
        when the SC violates separation of powers not limited to its stopping of the court-ordered legal vote-counting -- in order to appoint its choice of candidate.

        The crime: treason.

        Any list of crimes by the Bushit War Crimes Family must begin, at latest, with that treason.

        A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

        by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:49:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  excuse me... (none)
        excuse me...but you're forgetting today is all martha all day.  big media must stay on message.

        you'll be lucky if it gets play on the sunday shows.

      •  You Mean The CNN Media Whores? (none)
        You obviously just don't GET that the Crime of the Century was committed not by the Supreme Court of the United States it was committed Martha Stewart, who stupidly forgot to cozy up to George Bush like Kenny Boy Lay.

        So she can just go whistle for the pardon Lay is gonna get.

        The theft of the election?  The billions lost to in Enron? BFD!

        WTF is that compared to Martha's crime spree.

        So nothing on CNN. It's all Martha all the time on CNN.

        Get with the goddamn program here.

        You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

        by mattman on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:56:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  More BREAKING NEWS! (2.75)
          Wolf Blitzer has just announced on CNN that Martha Stewart wore BASIC BLACK to her sentencing.......

          Damn, that man is always where the REAL news is!

          You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

          by mattman on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 09:06:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Wow (none)
      Is this new?

      You can delete words that people don't like in the House. Icing on the cake.

      I only thought Jedi's could expunge data from the Archives?

      •  Probably not, as concerns (none)
        process: one can read speeches in the official record which weren't actually delivered in the House.

        The power to commit nearly any crime, in Congress, by an elected representative or senator, is established in the Constitution.  

        In other words, one can call a fellow member anything -- regardless how libelous -- and not be prosecuted for it.

        On the other hand, McCarthy was officially censured for his words and actions.

        A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

        by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:52:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Striking Comments From the Record (none)
        is not uncommon. For instance, when a Canadian MP tells another Canadian MP to "Go Fuck Yourself" (a la Cheney), the official record (known as Hansard) reads "Hear, Hear!" or "Oh, Oh!".

        All slanderous, libelous, and epithetical phrases are typically removed from the public record. Better to watch it live on C-Span (yawn).

        What was the media catch-phrase/euphemism for Nixon's swearing on tape? Anyone remember?

        And speaking of euphemisms, why do we now talk about "ethnic cleansing" as opposed to "genocide?" Is there a difference in the two or is the media just watering down the horrors of the world for our benefit?

      •  Jefferson's Manual (none)
        Mandatory reading (skimming, at least) for the serious C-SPAN geek: Jefferson's Manual.

        The Manual is also here at the GPO (in inconvenient section-by-section PDFs), along with the 108th Congress's rules and some other things.

        The part about "taking down" remarks is discussed in Jefferson's Manual, Sec. 17. It's among the more interesting sections.

        I'm &y and I approved this message.

        by abw on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 03:52:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  new gag rule (none)
      the other part of this is not just censoring a black ccongresswoman's words, but the new rule itself, which doesn't prevent monitoring to make sure the elections meet international democratic standards, it keeps anyone from even talking about it.

      not sure if "federal official" includes congresscritters, but i sure wish i were a "federal official" right now instead of some underemployed shmuck.  even if i were some lowly clerk in a local HUD office.  i could very publically ask the UN to monitor the florida election and watch the sparks fly as they prosecuted me under this measure.  it would be worth it.  

      we're rolling back the republican crime wave

      by zeke L on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 09:53:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As a matter of personal discipline and principle (none)
    I have refused to cave into the Bush Administration's cabal of the fear mongerer.  As far as I can see, the nature of democracy is to be insecure.  The freedom to determine one's own future is the freedom to fail.  We always have been insecure; you would think insecurity would be a platform plank of the Republican Party that eschews safety nets.  Let's be free and insecure.

    An incredibly funny link that I have sent to all my friends.

    •  I refuse to cave in also; (4.00)
      which doesn't mean I don't also feel, at the same time, that constant underlying sense of dread aroused by the Bushit War Crimes Family.

      Dread about our country and our collective future.

      Dread about whether there will be an election, or if instead some excuse will be invoked or fraud perpetrated in order to cancel, circumvent, or subvert it.

      I refuse to worry, though all the materials with which to do so are on my backmind.

      A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

      by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:54:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Life in Iraq - Picture worth a 1,000 words (none)
    Check out this picture at the New York Times.

    Even better, check out the picture that is on the front page of their hard copy - it's the same one, but the pic is much clearer.

    Ok, it's bad enough that this cop seems all to happy to be kicking his countrymen inan effort to what?  Make the line more orderly?  Can't really tell, but it seems pretty useless to me.

    Now, take a second, closer look.  In particular, examine his right hand.  Scary stuff...

  •  Hmmm.. (none)
    "AHH!! They're coming!  OMG!  OMG!  They're coming!!  AHH!!! .. but in a non-specific manner."

    Hahahaha that guy is a classic.  Try looking back through some of his older strips.

    I thought this one was great:

    And here's one for the FMA haters:

    (The hiss in the background, which was also used for DooM's Imp, is a classic.)

  •  Etymology (none)

    You know, call me crazy, but I think it's more of an AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH or even an AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHH, but not so much AAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

    It's definitely not a YEEEEEEEAAAAAARRRGH.  No doubt about that.

    "Hey Lois, look! The two symbols of the Republican party. An elephant and a big fat white guy who's threatened by change." - Peter Griffin, Family Guy

    by Sinfonian on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 05:49:20 AM PDT

    •  I was about to make the same point. (none)
      Yes. "Aawww" is the noise people make when they see babies. The Minister-of-Fear yawp is an "augh!"  AAAAAAAAAUUUUUUGGGHHHH!
    •  Whatever happend to Family Guy? (none)
      I loved that show.  Thought it was funnier and more biting than the Simpsons.  Did it get cancelled?

      George W. Bush - The first President to speak English as a second language

      by wry twinger on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:30:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  they're bringing FG back (none)
        but it was cancelled

        "We cannot out-psycho Al Queda" -- Jon Stewart

        by sendtoscott on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:01:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Family Guy (none)
        They are bringing it and another animated Seth Macfarlane(sp?) show back to Fox next year.  The other show is called American Father or American Dad or something like that and it's supposed to be more political than Family Guy.

        FG does show daily on the Cartoon Network, it used to be on right after the daily show, which was perfect, but now it's on at the same time.  DAMN YOU TELEVISION EXECUTIVES!!!


        "The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering it's prisons" -Fyodor Dostoevsky

        by bawbie on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 09:18:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Family Guy (none)
        Family Guy indeed is on Cartoon Network, Sunday-Thursday at 11:00 pm and 2:00 am Eastern.  It's also on TBS Tuesday nights at 8:30 pm Eastern.

        Last I heard, there are new episodes in production for premiere (network/channel TBD) in January 2005.

        Finally, the DVD sets of Seasons 1 & 2 and Season 3 are available at a store near you or, of course, online.  Needless to say, I have both and enjoy them immensely!

        "Hey Lois, look! The two symbols of the Republican party. An elephant and a big fat white guy who's threatened by change." - Peter Griffin, Family Guy

        by Sinfonian on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 04:36:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  or is it... (none)
      a bit more of an "AAAAAHHHH" at the back of the throat.

      Sorry for the cheap monty python reference, it is a friday morning after all.

      "Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic (judicial) ceremony"

      by bakin4mymomma on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:31:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Better, but... (none)
        SPREADERS: No, no, no. Hold your head like this, then go "Waaah." Try it again.

        [Hits Man again]

        MAN: uuuwwhh!!

        SPREADERS: Better, better, but "Waah, Waah!" Put your hand there.

        MAN: No.

        SPREADERS: Now..

        [Hits him again]

        MAN: Waaaaah!!!

        SPREADERS: Good, Good! That's it.

        MAN: Stop hitting me!!

        SPREADERS: What?

        MAN: Stop hitting me!!

        SPREADERS: Stop hitting you?

        MAN: Yes!

        SPREADERS: Why did you come in here then?

        MAN: I wanted to complain.

        SPREADERS: Oh no, that's next door. It's being-hit-on-the-head lessons in here.

        MAN: What a stupid concept.

    •  you are correct (none)
      "AWWWWWWWW" is completely wrong in this context. You need some G's and H's in there. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that can ruin a whole post for me. AAARGHH!
  •  michael moore and canadian election law? (3.50)
    Sorry, I cant get this computer to link or format, so bear with thiis But, a good conservative wingnut in Canada has had this brilliant idea of charging Michael Moore for meddling in Canadian election.

    This URL

    Highlights include:

    "Michael Moore came to our country, stuck his nose in our election, and broke the law," said Nejatian. "So I just want Elections Canada to charge him for breaking country's law."


    "The question is, is he allowed to influence voters? I think if he is influencing voters, it's because he is of interest to the media, he expresses his opinion, that's legitimate in a democracy," said Grey. "

    But a pinko commie mayor (haha) to the rescue:

    "One Canadian mayor has come to Moore's defence.

    Mike Bradley, the mayor of Sarnia, Ont., says he'll make Moore an honorary Canadian citizen to try to shield him from any charges. "

    This is all in relation to him urging Canadians not to vote in GOP-in-disguise Conservative party in the June federal elections.

    A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, its because its proven - Jean Chretien

    by Thank God I live in Canada on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:15:14 AM PDT

  •  Slime Fast... (none)
    From a WaPo article today lamenting the fact that Republicans are being swamped by Democratic 527s.

    "ACT and the Media Fund receive support from the Joint Victory Campaign Committee, which yesterday reported raising $1 million from New York philanthropist Lewis B. Cullman; $505,000 from AgVar Chemicals President Agnes Varis; and $250,000 from Slim-Fast Foods Co. President S. Daniel Abraham".

    So, $250,000 and firing Whoopie Goldberg.  S. Daniel Abraham, on his knees and sucking hard.

    •  Paranoia (3.25)
      "From a WaPo article today lamenting the fact that Republicans are being swamped by Democratic 527s."

      I read that article.  The article was not lamenting that fact.

      There are some sub-mentals here who will invent press bias in stories without a touch of bias.  They put on tin-foil hats when a bad polling report comes down so they can question the ideological ethics of the pollster.

      They want no news which is not obviously partisan in their direction.  They are impervious to actually balanced factual stories in the press.

      They do our side no favors.  And they make me embarrassed to be on the same side as them.

    •  The point of this (none)
      is that Slime Fast stated that the reason they dumped Whoopi was because of an outpouring of anger by their customers.  I think that this information could cause one to question this.  I think that the offended party was Mr. Abraham, not Slime Fast customers.
      •  Mr Abraham no longer owns SlimFast ... (none)
        ... and he geva a quarter million dollars to a progressive 527 ... and I ahve no idea what point you are trying to make.
        •  Glad you asked. (none)
          Not sure about you, but as far as I'm concerned, the Joint Victory Campaign Committee is NOT a progressive 527.

          The fake outrage that was generated by the Republican slime machine over the fundraiser that Ms Goldberg participated in was portrayed as a backlash by consumers.  The high profile demand that John Kerry disown the people involved in this fundraiser was just part of the campaign.  Firing Whoopi Goldberg was another part of it.

          Slime Fast claimed that they were responding to outrage expressed by their customers.  I suggest that this is bullshit.  That the corporate culture at Slime Fast is right wing and supports Bush.  That Ms Goldberg was fired not because of a customer backlash but rather because she expressed political opinions that are opposed by the corporate culture at Slime Fast.  I think whether or not Mr, Abraham still owns Slime Fast may be interesting but not particularly relevant.

          •  If JVC ain't progressive, what is? (none)
            From disinfopedia:
            The Joint Victory Campaign 2004, "a combined fundraising committee," is one of five Democrat 527 committees engaged in supporting a Democratic candidate in U.S. presidential election, 2004. [1] "Democratic groups have created an operation that combines close coordination with a division of labor designed to avoid duplication of effort and maximize resources." The other four allied groups are Media Fund, "the principal vehicle for pro-Democratic television commercials by the coalition"; America Coming Together, "which is responsible for get-out-the-vote efforts"; America Votes, "the umbrella organization that will stitch together the activities of various progressive organizations"; and the Thunder Road Group, which "will concentrate on research and rapid response."
            Are you prating for a trollrating?
          •  The proper Kerry response (none)
            "While I may not have used some of the language presented at the recent fundraiser, I am very pleased to be living in a country where people are free to express their opinions in the manner of their choosing."

            Much better than the Repubs "Should you or any member of your team be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your activities." (Pretty sure I screwed up that quote, but no one's showing Mission:Impossible right now. Come on, cable, someone's gotta pick up that puppy...)

            "If this be treason, make the most of it." -- Patrick Henry

            Prune the Shrub!

            by Cali Scribe on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 03:20:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  fallwell tax exempt status challenged (none)
    maybe we will see some fallout of Bush's wooing of churches.
    NYTimes article

    "Yesterday, the Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, argued in a letter to the I.R.S. that one of Mr. Falwell's religious organizations, Jerry Falwell Ministries, had disseminated the message in violation of tax rules, which restrict tax-exempt religious groups and charitable organizations from engaging in politics."

    "Everybody's organized but the people." - Common Cause founder John Gardner

    by juls on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:43:12 AM PDT

  •  House Votes to Block Aid for Saudi Arabia (none)
    The House voted 217-191 to remove $25,000 in the $19.4 billion 2005 foreign aid bill earmarked for Saudi Arabia.

    Link here

    $25,000. Does the bite sound as tough as bark?

    •  Huh? For what does Saudi Arabian (none)
      gov't of, by, and for billionaires need foreign aid?

      $25,000?  Such a pitrtance.  Must be for the poor.

      It was blocked by Republican'ts, right?  Then it was for the poor.

      A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

      by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:06:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  $25,000? (none)
      Exactly why are we giving Saudi's any money is beyond me. What for they even need the money, Saudi Arabia has world's largest oil reserves.

      That money could be better spent somewhere else, like Sudan, Ethiopia or other places, where poverty is rampant, causing more terrorism.

      Israel is another endless money hole. We give them billions and they still won't even try to make peace with the palestinians. Exactly what for are we paying them off?

      I say cut them off until they learn how to behave.

      Great cartoons by that SF Gate guy. I especially liked that "Gay Agenda" piece, it was right on the spot.

      Republicans best friend is ignorance.

      by Jonesyboy on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:32:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  they're so rich... (none)
      they don't do any of their own manual labor. They bring in aliens to do it. No, wait a minute, that's us.
    •  Why Does Saudi Arabia Need Our Money? (none)
      Saudi Arabia has gotten billions from the U. S. for oil.  Why should we send them $19.4 billion more?  Can they spend it on madrassa schools?  Can they spend it on repressing women?
  •  To Lainie re: Beowulf (none)
    Apologies for the gender confusion ma'am.

    The translation of Beowulf is by Dr. David Breeden

    He writes:

    The following [translation of Beowulf] is not a line-by-line translation of the original poem. Rather, I have attempted to recreate the poem as a contemporary poet would write it, a practice assumed in the oral tradition.

    Paradoxically, however, this translation is "truer" to the original than many scholarly works. For one thing, by using free verse I have not been forced into adding words or changing meaning for the sake of formal meter or rhyme. In addition, free verse has allowed me in many cases to recreate the rhythms of the original

    Here, Grendel = Bush. Hrothgar = Democracy (ignore the calling to the Devil part :-):

    Poets sang sad songs
    throughout the world,
    how Grendel tormented Hrothgar;
    how no warrior,
    no matter how brave,
    could kill Grendel.
    How Grendel wasn't
    about to stop,
    or pay damages.
    Grendel kept ambushing from his lair,
    the moors which lay in perpetual darkness.

    Then, the cruelest of all injuries,
    he moved into the hall--
    stayed there every night
    (though God would never allow
    such an evil thing
    to actually touch the throne).

    Hrothgar was broken;
    council after council proposed
    what to do against the attacks.
    They even went to heathen temples,
    worshipped idols, and called
    to the Devil for help.
    The Danes forgot God.
    (Woe be to those who go
    to the fire's embrace,
    even in great distress--
    There is no consolation there.)

    No counselor, no warrior
    could destroy the evil.
    They wept and seethed.

    Cheers, Hrothgar.

    •  Thank you , sir ;-) (none)
      Hmm. Yes, I'm familiar with Breeden.

      The following [translation of Beowulf] is not a line-by-line translation of the original poem. Rather, I have attempted to recreate the poem as a contemporary poet would write it, a practice assumed in the oral tradition.

      Paradoxically, however, this translation is "truer" to the original than many scholarly works. For one thing, by using free verse I have not been forced into adding words or changing meaning for the sake of formal meter or rhyme. In addition, free verse has allowed me in many cases to recreate the rhythms of the original

      I have to admit that I don't like his approach. While it may be very useful for promulgating the text to a modern audience, I strongly disagree with his assertion that his free-verse translation is 'truer' to the original. I think it leaves behind so much- how then to communicate the rhythm of the alliteration? Or the poetic flow of a kenning? Or of the internal 'trail markers' that were there as mnemonic aids for the scop? If a contemporary poet was attempting to recreate something in an oral tradition, it would certainly not be in free verse! Formal meter and rhyme worked for a reason!

      I may be biased. I took a year of Old English, and when we did Beowulf, it was in OE. We used translations basically to clarify our understanding of the text (being as we were all non-native speakers), not as our primary view. I do recognize that not everyone has a year of declension under their belt- but I also think that the poem really cannot be fully understood in a language other than OE.

      Or I may be completely full of it. I haven't had caffeine yet. :-P

      "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." -Karl Marx

      by Lainie on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:20:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I Agree with You (none)
        I read it in the original OE and you can't beat that for sound and rhythm. Cover versions are never as good as the original (except perhaps The Strangler's version of "96 Tears" or any cover of Dylan (sacrilege!)).

        But I figured that most dKosians would not be able to read OE, so chose a convenient translation of the original:
        "Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
        Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
        All mimsy were the borogoves,
        And the mome raths outgrabe."

        Oops. :-)

        •  Close, but no cigar! (none)
          Lewis Carrol does owe a great deal to OE poetry, yes?

          When we were doing Beowulf, our beloved (but draconian) Professor required us to memorize the first 13 lines of the poem, and recite them, with appropriate inflection, etc, for the class.

          This was by far the hardest part of the class for me. I have a really hard time memorizing things, and I was... 34? 35? Something like that. Not a 22 year-old. It took me all term to memorize it. And- you'll laugh at this- I took a dry-erase marker, and wrote the passage on the tile on the back wall of the shower, where I could stand and recite it for at least that few moments, while I was washing my hair, etc. My friends thought it was very funny. My kids learned it! And one time when I'd invited a guy (who I had just begun dating) over for dinner, he went to use the bathroom, and came out looking very confused, and he clearly had a hard time figuring out how to ask me what the hell was that on the shower wall?

          Last day of class, I did my recitation, and the Prof told me later that he thought mine was one of the best, that the voicing and inflection showed a real understanding of the meaning, that it wasn't just a rote, parrotted recitation. :-) And I got an A for the class. :-D)

          (And I can still remember most of those 13 lines!)

          "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." -Karl Marx

          by Lainie on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:03:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Had to memorize the beginning (none)
            of the Aeneid when I was in high school--I was 15 at the time so my brain handled it well, and I can still remember it.

            Arma virumque cano, Troiae qui primus ab oris...

            Sacred cows make the best hamburger. --Mark Twain

            by froggywomp on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 10:52:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Covers of Dylan (none)
          If you "get" that bobby d. is a great blues singer, it all becomes clear why his voice isn't sandpapered into pop smooth.

          Frank Sinatra praised bobby d.'s singing.

          I recommend the remaster of "Freewheelin'" for gorgeous lyrices -- and singing.  There is huge beauty in bobby d.'s singing.

          Another -- and the best version of the many I've heard of the song: "Deliah," on "World Gone Wrong".  His subtlety is brilliant: throughout the song, the protagonist is describing the crime, what the judge said*, and rationalizing.  But in the last coda when he's repeating the line a second or third time, there's a very slight break in the protagonist's voice -- as if reality is finally getting through to him.

          The song is about a murder -- crime of passion -- and based upon an actual case from turn of the 20th century.  The protagonist, Curly, is the murderer.

          *"Curly said to the judge,
           'What might be my fine?'
           Judge said, 'Poor boy,
           "You get ninety-nine".

          There is huge beauty in bobby d.'s "ugly" voice, once one realizes what he's "doing".  Simply: he doesn't sandpaper off the rough edges; and that is perfectly suited to what he is doing, the sorts of songs he is singing.

          A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

          by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:06:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Exceptions to the rule (4.00)
          I kindly submit that Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower" easily surpasses Dylan's original. And, of course, William Shatner's "Mr. Tambourine Man" is better than the Byrds' and Dylan's versions combined.

          I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it, and reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it.

          by Hard Left on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:31:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Stranglers and Mome Raths (none)
          The Stranglers also did an AWESOME cover of Strange Little Girl (clip #10 on here).

          And the Mome Raths were right cool on Alice in Wonderland! (couldnt find a pic on the internet: SIGH)

      •  Have to ask: (none)
        What do you think of Heaney's translation?  I'm partial to it myself.

        I only took a quarter of OE, alas; I wish I could have had a year.  I would have been pretty "fluent" in it by then.  A quarter wasn't enough to do Beowulf justice, so the only memorization I've had to do is the beginning of the General Prologue to the Canterybury Tales, as no doubt others here have done.

        Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth. - Albert Einstein

        by Leslie in CA on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 01:08:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Heaney? Uh- (none)
          He is a poet- and a very good one. I have read some of his original work, and appreciate it.

          But he is not a scholar. And while his work is an interesting, even lyrical poem, it is not a true translation, and too often I found myself muttering under my breath "That's not what it says!"

          So I suppose YMMV- it is an enjoyable read. But it isn't Beowulf.

          As to CT- I didn't have to memorize (though bits stuck in my head anyway) but I took quite a bit (undergrad and grad) and somewhere here is a pile of papers... my favorite was the one in which I compared the Miller to Ralph Kramden. My classmates didn't get it (being too young to know of the Honeymooners), but my Prof loved it...

          My undergrad degree was in Medieval Studies, so I took a little of everything. Yeah, I had a year of OE, and lots of Chaucer and Shakespeare, but I also had two terms of Italian Lit (Dante and Boccaccio), a mix of lit classes covering ME stuff , French (including fabliaux) some German (Parzifal!), a term of Scandanavian sagas (Egil, Njal, Gisli, etc- I really like Egil! He's a nasty piece of work, but funny!)... etc. And lots of history, art history, religious history...

          Mind you, it's basically a degree in Early Unemployment, but I loved the program and wouldn't trade it for the world. I'm just a very well educated unemployed person!

          "History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce." -Karl Marx

          by Lainie on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 02:09:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Egil Skallagrimson (none)
            Definitely one of my faves.  If there's no mention of parting gifts you're in big big trouble with Egil...something about eyeballs and vomit, as I recall.

            I don't belong to any organized political party, I'm a Democrat--Will Rogers

            by Dancing Larry on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 06:06:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Saddam is back (3.66)
    Link here

    Iyad Allawi, the new Prime Minister of Iraq, pulled a pistol and executed as many as six suspected insurgents at a Baghdad police station, just days before Washington handed control of the country to his interim government, according to two people who allege they witnessed the killings.

    See my previous diary entry here

    •  Not surprising -- (none)
      Allawi was a hit-man for Saddam, assassinating dissenters in the Ba'athist party, allegedly thoroughout Yurrup.

      A CIA officer who worked with him said that the one "virtue" Allawi has is that he's a thug.

      A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

      by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:11:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  snort. (none)
    Pierce has a really funny piece up at Prospect about Cornyn and marrying box turtles.

    turns out he never actually said the dreaded phrase. here's the money quote:

    Anyway, in the prepared text of a speech he planned to deliver to the Heritage Foundation, Cornyn explained:

    "It does not affect your daily life very much if your neighbor marries a box turtle. But that does not mean that it's right. ... Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife."

    Later, a spokesperson for Cornyn explained that Cornyn had not read the passage in his actual address. In other words, at the last minute, on an issue of mighty national import, Senator John Cornyn choked. Pure cowardice. Naked -- you should pardon the expression -- political expedience wins out again over principled leadership. Where is the outrage?

    (OK, it's in Atlantic City, waiting by the slot machines for Bill Bennett to finish up, but you get the point.)

    anyway, go read the rest. someday we will be able to laugh about this shit.

    More sh*t here than one fan can handle!

    by susanp on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 07:34:54 AM PDT

    •  I love turtles. (4.00)
      But I'd never consider marrying one, regardless how much she wanted me to.

      And regardless for how long she chased me.

      Not so much because it's wrong, but because it can be predicted with confidence that she wouldn't be tall enough.  It's one thing for a wedding dress train to drag on the ground.  But when the veil does so one is well beyond good taste to the point of shattering decorum.

      A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

      by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:15:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  New poll-Doesnt look too good if Nader runs (none)
    Minnesota Key In Presidential Battle

    Jul 15, 2004 4:51 pm US/Central
    WASHINGTON (AP) The presidential race is a tossup in the key battleground states of Wisconsin and Minnesota, while Sen. John Kerry holds a slight lead over President Bush in Iowa, according to a University of Minnesota poll of the Upper Midwest.

    The poll, commissioned by school's Hubert H. Humphrey Institute, found that a well-known third-party candidate and a not-so-well-known one could help tip the balance in the three key battleground states.

    In Wisconsin, for example, the poll found that Bush led Kerry by 20 percentage points among independent voters. But when Ralph Nader and Libertarian candidate Michael Badnarik are in the race, that lead falls to 15 percentage points.

    In Minnesota, Kerry has a six-point lead over Bush among independents, but that lead vanishes when the third-party candidates are factored in.

    "The reason that's important is these are the people who are up for grabs, these are the swing voters," said Larry Jacobs, director of the Humphrey Institute's 2004 Election Project, which commissioned the poll.

    The only spread of all voters that was larger than the poll's sampling error of plus or minus 4 percentage points was a two-man race in Iowa, where Kerry led Bush 50.4 percent to 45.7 percent.

    The other two states were within the margin of error: In Minnesota, Kerry led Bush 49 percent to 45.8 percent in a two-man race; and in Wisconsin, Bush led 48.4 percent to 45.9 percent in a two-man race.

    Jacobs said he was surprised that Kerry didn't get more of a bounce from his July 4 weekend campaign swing through the three states. And he said Kerry is not getting all of the anti-incumbent votes, the way challengers usually do.

    "The discontented voters, who are in the mood to punish the incumbent, are thinking about casting votes for Nader and Badnarik," Jacobs said.

    Bush, meanwhile, could be hurt by Badnarik, if the Libertarian candidate gets more name recognition, Jacobs said.

    "If he were to get press coverage the way Nader does, he could really be a problem for the president the way Nader is for Kerry," Jacobs said.

    In a four-man race, Nader got 4.6 percent in Minnesota, 4 percent in Wisconsin, and 2.7 percent in Iowa; while Badnarik got 1 percent in Minnesota, 1.5 percent in Wisconsin and 1.1 percent in Iowa.

    John Coleman, a political science professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, said it was no surprise the race was so tight.

    "I would have been surprised if it had been leaning one way or the other," he said. "The margin between Bush and Kerry looks like it will be so close that frankly Nader wouldn't have to do all that much to have a a significant impact."

    The telephone poll surveyed 589 registered voters in Minnesota, 575 in Wisconsin, and 614 in Iowa between June 21 and July 12. It was commissioned by the University of Minnesota and conducted by the Center for Survey Research and Analysis at the University of Connecticut.

    •  I am worried (none)
      I live in western Minnesota and this very close race is a very big concern.  That we can be close in Tennessee  AND Minnesota is up-is-down scenario.

      Kerry will have to do more to make this a race.  And Nader will be on the ballot unless he drops out.

      If Bush takes Minnesota AND Wisconsin, what 2 other states can make that up.  

      I know Kerry is leading, kinda, in national polls but this midwest polls are worrying.

  •  interview with a (none)
    kid who was planning on being a suicide bomber at the BBC.  It's really interesting.  Read it if you get the chance.  

    One of the reasons that this kid chose to volunteer to be a "martyr" is that he didn't like his school, and he didn't want to go to school any more.  

    Anyway, it's worthwhile.  

  •  For JamesB3 (none)
    Yukon is fourth Canadian region to approve gay marriage

    The Yukon on Wednesday became the fourth Canadian district to legalize same-sex marriage when a judge changed the territory's common-law definition of marriage to mean the voluntary union for life of two people to the exclusion of all others. In a decision delivered to a packed Yukon supreme court hearing, Justice Peter McIntyre emulated courts in Quebec, Ontario, and British Columbia. Previously, Yukon common law had limited marriage to a union between a man and a woman. "The [old] common law definition of marriage is unconstitutional," said McIntyre. The federal attorney general had asked the Yukon court to delay its decision until the supreme sourt of Canada hears arguments on same-sex marriage in October. McIntyre, however, said "a legally unacceptable result would be perpetuated in the Yukon" if he delayed the decision.

    While one-note complaining may be irritating to some, I believe that the rights of minorities are the ones that most need protection from the majority. And minorities complain because there are few in positions of power that are looking out for their interests. More power to them (literally).

    •  The key to our system of laws, (2.00)
      Hrothgar, is that though it is based upon majority rule, there are built-in protections for minorities.  The First Amendment is an example: it doesn't protect majority or popular speech, because such speech needs no protection.  It protects unpopular speech.

      Now, I'll give some of my irreplacable time to addressing the larger and underlying issue/s:

      Minorities who want the assist of the majority had better not insult and alienate the majority.  To do so is dumb politics and downright stupid.  I am not "irritated" -- your ad homina noted -- by that dumbnitude.  I am insulted and offended when I'm told, by word or deed, that my issues don't matter, but I still must support the minority issue at hand.

      I mentioned GLAD, in MA.  GLAD is a group of lawyers who pursue ONLY gay-lesbian-bisexual interests.  That wouldn't be a problem if they didn't also demand everyone else support their efforts.  Dumb politics.

      Minorites get things accomplished by two means: (1) coalitions; working together with other minorities to get done that which the coalition, and each minority, wants to achieve, or (2) having substantial funds by means of which to fund a legal battle without having to "bother" with coalition-building.

      GLAD is in the second category.  Yet it still demands everyone not of their minority support their efforts.

      You are aware, of course, that homosexuals are not the only minority -- correct?

      And aware that homosexuals are not the only minority which is "oppressed" -- correct?

      Are you, then, not aware that there are minorities, other than homosexuals, who cannot afford lawyers, even as a group, therefore cannot advance their issue in so much as the media, let alone mount a legal campaign?  

      What is GLAD doing for other minorities, so that it would have grounds to at least expect return for that favor?  NOTHING.  It expects that "return" nonetheless.

      And that is exactly the problem with JamesB3's attitude: Gimme, gimme, gimme, and fuck you.

      I've been politically active since, at latest, 1965 (while still in high school).  I learned long ago not to alienate potential allies.  JamesB3 refuses to learn that fundamental rule of politics.  So does GLAD.

      And before you or JamesB3 invent some other attack upon my character instead of upon my actual views: there are other minorities who make the same stupid dumb politics mistake.  

      And who, also, refuse to correct the mistake by instead attacking and alienating the very people they demand be allies and active supporters.  

      It's an attitude that brings to mind a Republican't named Bushit, who first insulted and alienated our decades-long allies, and told them they weren't going to get anything out of the Iraq war, and then demanded that they kick in cash for the cost of the war.

      I no longer silently tolerate the entitled and leeching attitude which demands support for one's cause while simultaneously refusing to reciprocate.  

      Nor do I any more provide the demanded support, as it is my experience that doing so not only does not result in reciprocal support but rather increases the leeching.

      If you choose to attack me, or to distort and mistrepresent my views, and even to put words into my mouth that never came out of it, as does the liar JamesB3, I'll be happy to burn your toes all the way to your scalp.

      That same warning is shoved into the face of the ignoramous JamesB3 who refuses to learn because it's "easier" to instead lie about a person who presents legitimate criticisms of bad attitudes in such as women, "feminists," and "gay activists" who couldn't give two shits about anyone outside themselves.  (And I know exceptions to all three, so my criticism isn't blanket.)

      I hope I need not repeat myself in future, or be put into the position of frying toes-to-scalp.  We'll see if JamesB3 finally learns instead of thucking his thumb and lying against critics who have the "gall" to actually speak freely and critically of that needing criticism.

      To JamesB3 directly: everyone here is watching: they know what I've said and say, and they see you lie about it.  (And my views are not the first you've deliberately misrepresented.  Despite your self-view, you are neither slick nor clever at argumentation.)  Accept the consequences of that fact as earned by yourself.

      A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

      by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:54:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  GLAAD (none)
        I don't think that Glad has anything to do with what you're talking about.  
      •  I'm honestly confused (none)
        what makes you think (and what evidence do you have) that JamesB3 doesn't care about other issues?  What makes you think that he has a "Gimme, gimme, gimme, and fuck you" attitude?  Do all single issue advocacy groups (GLAAD, NAACP, SLIC, the Anti-Defamation League) are similarly ego-centric to be focused on the issue that their charters call them to be focused on?  Why do you say that he doesn't "give two shits about anyone outside [himself]"?
        •  He/She/It says that because of fear. (none)
          He/She/It hates itself. This thing went around telling people that if they worried about the FMA, then they were attacking dead US soldiers. This thing went around telling everyone that it hated gays and women because of some "selfish" lawyers in MA.

          How do you get away with such foolishness?

          You act indignant. Every single fucking word out of your mouth is some kind of rage, because people actually dare to have issues that you did not tattoo into their foreheads.

          This thing knows that among some of his troll pals, or some of his alternate screennames, I'm an easy target. So he/she/it can take the usual shots at me and gets 4s from the usual gutless cowards. It doesn't have to have a purpose, or a brain. It doesn't have to actually ever discuss ANY topic of value, because honestly, it hasn't said one damn worthwhile thing the whole time it's stunk up this board.

          This scum feels terrible because no matter how many times it says that I'm "making up" my claims, it knows I'm not. It knows that it viciously attacked all women, and all gays, for no apparent reason other than envy because some lawyers in Massachusetts could actually get things done, and could presumably even properly use a keyboard. This thing knows that it pimped out the corpses of US soldiers in order to play morality police, and it looked like a shameful, sick, perverse piece of slime as it repeatedly violated men and women who were far braver than it will ever be. Those same "feminists" and those same selfish "gays" who gave their lives while this thing sat on it's scrawny, self-satisfied ass and sucked up oxygen for no good reason.

          If you hear any baas, it's not sheep. It's just jngagara or whatever the name is this week. And the more that I tell the truth about this creature's statements, the louder and more despearte the bleating becomes.

          •  I should also point out to the scumsucker that (4.00)
            GLAD has been around for 26 years. Do you think that an organization with little money, which "cares only about helping one minority", would be around for 26 years if it was anywhere near as hideous and horrible and selfish as jnangangreen claims. Hell no. While jngangreen was sitting around berating those selfish "feminists" in the 70's and 80's and 90's, what was GLAD doing? Helping people with AIDS. Helping needy children find good, loving homes. Isn't that so selfish of them? Why, how dare they! Isn't it so HORRIBLE for GLAD to work for gays and gay rights, when blacks (Urban League, NAACP, a slew of black church organizations), Hispanics (La Raza, various immigration groups), etc. have absolutely no one to help them? Why, only those evil, selfish gays and women care about themselves, right? So are these groups just an evil plot by feminists and homos to discredit other minorities? Why haven't these minorities been destroyed by the majority, since they are "selfish" and don't know their place?

            While do-nothings like jnangreen helped put Reagan and Pappy Bush into office, groups like Naitonal Gay & Lesbian Task Force were fighting for reproductive choice, for keeping affirmative action alive, for opposing war and poverty. To think...they have Gay AND Lesbian in their title...and they STILL help people who aren't gay and lesbian. Who the fuck do they think they are? Didn't they get janga's little memo that only non-homosexuals and men deserve merit badges?

            Like I said before, I think that GLAD probably fired this person from it's offices. Maybe he/she was stealing paper clips or sniffing glue, or making copies of it's backside on the Xerox machine. There's a whole lot of hatred for an organization which has, unlike you ganja, has done nothing but help people.


          •  that's my impression (none)

            you just confused the shit out of me, though, because I read the reply, and I thought it was jnagahoriy replying.  

            he/she/it-- his name is james!

            then you said "This thing went around telling everyone that it hated gays and women because of some "selfish" lawyers in MA." and I was like-- but that's what you're doing, not James!

            then I wised up and read the author, and it all made sense.  

            arggh, these early mornings (!).  

            Anyway, james, I don't think I say this enough, but thanks for all you do here.  yayy for you.  

            did all of that make sense?  good, I'm sure it did.  I'm usually quite understandable.  

      •  Here's Yer Ad Hominem Attack (none)
        You are a certifiable dickhead. I did not attack you personally, but you are welcome to feel that way since your views are repugnant. So if the shoe fits, stick it up your ass.

        Your logic asserts that no one should publicly question the status quo to avoid pissing people (the majority) off. By that logic, Martin Luther King should have just shut up and let the blacks be discriminated against. Is that what you would have preferred (and that's reduction ad absurdum, by the way). Unless you actually believe that, which I don't doubt (straw man).

        •  I may have over-reacted (none)
          But your post was particularly arrogant, condescending and sarcastic. That just gets my dander up.

          Sorry for the schoolboy response. Shouldn't let emotion get in the way of honest debate (at least on my part).

  •  Witness: Alawi Assassinated Six Before Taking Powe (none)
    The Sydney Morning Herald is reporting that eyewitnesses are repoting that Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Alawi assassinated six handcuffed and blindfolded insurgents just before accepting power from the United States.

    Alawi denies it, but the Australian paper appears pretty sure.

    Patridiot Watch
    The best blog ever written by Poppy McCool.

    by poppymccool on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 08:01:18 AM PDT

  •  conflict of interest (none)
    I haven't seen any real discussion in the news of the inherent conflict of interest in giving an appointee (Tom Ridge) the power to postpone the presidential election which, if it proceeded, could result in a loss by the person who appointed him.

    A transfer of power from Congress to a presidential appointee would eliminate an important check and balance.  

    Governments have been overthrown by tricks like this.

    •  There is also the stipulation (none)
      in the Constitution setting the date of the swearing in.  Not that "Rev." Soaries and the other Republican'ts care about the Constitution when not to their advantage.

      A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its shoes on. -- Mark Twain

      by jnagarya on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 09:02:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  some constitutional questions (none)
      I believe - correct me if I'm wrong - that the Constitution leaves the election process up to each state.  For example some states allow there electoral votes to be split while others have a "winner-take-all" rule.  

      It may take a constitutional amendment to actually allow the postponement of elections.

      I won't even start down the path though...We had elections during the war of 1812, Civil War, WWI, WWII.  Two of those wars took place on US soil.  If we could do it then with horse and buggy technology we can do it today.

  •   As Chuck D said yesterday on Air America (none)
    Why can't we have a Election Week, a whole week where people can vote as thier time permits. There is already almost three months in between election day and the swearing in so spreading out the day into a week can't hurt. As we found out in 2000 the US can wait for the results.


    •  In 1980 (none)
      I worked at a company that actually declared Presidential Election Day a paid holiday. Now that's an idea I could get behind.

      Plus, aren't employers required to give time off for people to vote? Of course, with absentee ballots being easier to get, that's more or less academic. (Note to self: remember to re-register self and spouse after moving!)

      "If this be treason, make the most of it." -- Patrick Henry

      Prune the Shrub!

      by Cali Scribe on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 03:30:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sympathy and support for Iraqis may fade (none)
    but racial profiling of them and others of Arab descent is here to stay. I was just sent this Women's Wall Street article about one woman's experience in which she was apparently terrified by the presence and actions of a group of Middle Eastern men on a flight.
    The article quotes Ann Coulter's web site, and regardless of the rest of her article and experience, that really eats into the credibility of the author's story. I would say the same if she quoted Rush Limbaugh.
    I was sent this by a formerly progressive woman who married a right-winger, and it's stuff like this that makes me concerned. The message of this article is that you can't both have freedom and fight the freedom-haters at the same time. Sounds familiar...
  •  Bush Repeatedly Loses Nuclear Weapons Secrets (none)
    The most compelling reason most people gave for attacking Iraq was that Saddam Hussein was trying to reconstitute his nuclear weapons programs, and could subsequently pass such WMD on to his terrorist buddies.

    Now we learn that the Bush administration has repeatedly lost computer disks with nuclear weapons secrets from the Los Alamos research laboratory during his tenure.

    Patridiot Watch
    The best blog ever written by Poppy McCool.

    by poppymccool on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 02:11:27 PM PDT

  •  Hard to Remain Calm About This News! (4.00)
    This is information I received about an hour ago from a good friend of mine:

    "One of my former employers, Alliant Tech Systems, has during the post-Cold War Era been playing "Pac-Man" with most of the "defense" operations of big corporations that no longer wanted to remain in the business.  They now own all the ammunition production capability for the military, including nearly all the propellant production capability in the U.S.  They were recently asked to bid on (mostly) small arms ammunition contracts for the U.S. Military.  Alliant refused because Federal Law limits the profit on ammunition to 7 percent.  The executives of the company - most of them former flag officers - felt the effort to gear up production was a poor use of the company's assets, given the small profit, and they would not be able to justify it to stockholders."

    My friend goes on to say "I wanted to puke when I heard this, and of course the 'other shoe' is that the current administration won't make the refusal public, probably not wanting to make corporate greed (their most sacred cow) a public issue.  F*K them ALL!!!"

    I think everyone here knows my attitude is we shouldn't have been in Iraq to begin with, but letting *corporate greed be the deciding factor in supplying our troops - the sons of people on this board! - with the ammunition they need to defend themselves... and that this is done by flag officers - Generals and Admirals!! - is a GODDAMNED CRIME!!!!!  And yes, it makes me want to SCREAM!

    This is Write Your Congresscritter stuff. This is something we need to make VERY DAMN PUBLIC!  These Republican scum can't be bothered to take care of the troops they sent in harm's way because they won't make enough money on it!!!!


    And just in case you'd like to tell these fucking "patriots" what you think of them directly, here's the Alliant Tech Systems website:

    William Goldman was right when he said the three rules of Hollywierd are "1) Nobody, 2) knows, 3) anything." Works in the real world, too.

    by HollywierdLiberal on Fri Jul 16, 2004 at 03:33:53 PM PDT

  •  Scathing Commentary (none)
    by an ex ONI Officer and career military man, Wayne Madsen published in Scoop NZ:

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