Rock the Vote versus the RNC

Ed Gillespie is threatening Rock the Vote. (PDF version of full letter.)

The GOP is asking the Rock the Vote group to "cease and desist" its suggestion that the government may bring back a military draft.

"Your "Draft Your Friends" campaign is being conducted with malicious intent and reckless disregard for the truth," Republican National Committee Chairman Ed Gillespie told the nonpartisan group in a letter Wednesday.

Rock the Vote has linked draft concerns to its appeal to register young voters. The group has produced a public service announcement warning of the possibility of a draft, and its Web site tells visitors "You have been drafted" to report to a polling place.

Republicans contend the draft talk is a Democrat-inspired scare tactic to drum up votes against President Bush .

And Rock the Vote has fired back:

Dear Chairman Gillespie,

The letter I received from you yesterday was quite a surprise. It struck us as just the sort of "malicious political deception" that is likely to increase voter cynicism and decrease the youth vote. In fact, it is a textbook case of attempted censorship, very much in line with those that triggered our organization's founding some fifteen years ago.

I am stunned that you would say that the issue of the military draft is an "urban myth"that has been "thoroughly debunked by no less than the President of the United States."

I have some news for you. Just because President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and Secretary Rumsfeld, and for that matter Senator Kerry, say that there is not going to be a draft does not make it so. Just because Congress holds a transparently phony vote against the draft does not mean there isn't going to be one. Anyone who thinks that the youth of America are going to take a politician's word on this topic is living on another planet.

By your logic, there should be no debate about anything that you disagree with. There's a place for that kind of sentiment (and your threats), but its not here in our country.

There are questions that the politicians are running away from. How long can we keep 138,000 U.S. troops or more on the ground in Iraq? What if full-scale civil war erupts there, as the CIA has warned is a realistic possibility? Would the next President be faced with a choice of pulling out of Iraq rather than institute a draft? Would women be drafted? What exactly would the draft-age be?

According to the Pentagon's own internal assessment, there are "inadequate total numbers" of troops to meet U.S. security interests. The current issue of Time magazine reports that, "General John Keane, who retired last year as the Army's No. 2 officer, says the continued success of the all-volunteer military is not guaranteed" Keane has told Congress that adding more than 50,000 troops to the Army would require thinking about a return to the draft."

But you want young people to believe that the draft is just an "urban myth." I was expecting that you were going to present some facts to back up your assertion. But, instead, you have demanded that we stop talking about it.

Poor GOP, its voter supression and censhorship efforts are being exposed. What to do, what to do...

•  SNAP!

  by Preston on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:04:04 PM PDT

•  Speaking of reckless disregard for the truth...

  Something I found in my mailbox today in Missouri:

  

  Paid for by the Missouri Republican State Committee... [phone].

  by dopies on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:05:07 PM PDT

  •  "Grow and strengthen economy"?

    Does anyone see the economy growing and getting stronger?  Republican voters are engaging in massive cognitive dissonance.

    If you are living in a fantasy world, I guess you'll vote for the politicians who live in the fantasy world with you.

    by existenz on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:24:14 PM PDT

•  Shorter:

  Dear Ed,

  Fuck Yourself.

  - Rock the Vote

  
  

  Good for them.

  by cookiesandmilk on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:05:40 PM PDT

  •  TOO RUDE!

    How about:

    Dear Ed,

    Please Fuck Yourself

    - Rock the Vote

    by blogswarm on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:49:20 PM PDT

    •  Your terminology is so '90s...

      It should read:

      Ed--

      Cheney yourself.

      RtV

      P.S. Yes, that does feel good!

      by ogre on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:13:42 PM PDT

  •  Incorrect phraseology

    Dear Mr. Gillespie,

    Go Fuck Yourself.

    by mmuskratt on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:54:35 PM PDT

    •  Read more about 2005 Skills Draft in this post:

      EMAIL ROCK THE VOTE AND TELL THEM YOU SUPPORT THEM AND WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE SKILLS DRAFT MEMO RECOVERED THROUGH THE FOI ACT.

      [e-mail]

      The most important thing to keep in mind is that the Bush Administration could add several billion dollars to the Defense budget and add two active-duty divisions to the military to save the Volunteer Army.  John Kerry is actually proposing just that in his $7 billion plan to add the 2 divisions, and strengthen the military with increased benefits, a doubling of Special Ops and several other programs like his volunteer Civilian Stability Corps (kind of a Peace Corps on steroids).  

      Yet instead Bush is stretching the Army so thin, they are now calling up the retired Individual Ready Reserve--and they have even sent Company B of the Arlington Color Guard to the Mideast, giving them real bullets instead of the blanks they were firing at military funerals.  If they want to preserve the Volunteer Army, as Bush said in the first debate, and not have to reinstate the combat draft, why has the Bush Administration not added the several billion needed to avoid having to call a draft?  Out of the $200 billion allocated for Iraq, not one penny was ever allocated to do this.

      Timeline of activity on Skills and Medical Drafts

      Feb. 11 2003--Top-level meeting between the head of the SSS and Deputy Undersecretary Abell in charge of Personnel and Readiness of the DoD on a new type of draft, the Skills Draft. This is the meeting recorded in the unpublicized Agenda Document, revealed by a Freedom of Information Act request in May 2004, which recommends a Skills Draft and an upgrading of the Medical Draft.  The memo proposes the SSS be able to call up any number of several hundred skills the Pentagon and even the Dept. of Homeland Security might be short of.  Option 3 of the agenda's "Next Steps" outlined moving "promptly" to change the mission of the SSS, to actively plan and prepare for the massive datbase needed to track men and women, "virtually every young American" under 35 and their skills (more details below).  The SSS goes back to the drawing board after this meeting, encouraged enough to do some more planning.
      http://www.blatanttruth.org/selective_service091304.pdf

      Summer 2003--A drive begins to start filling Draft Board vacancies by asking current board members to find new ones. (Salon, "Oiling Up the Draft Machine")
      
      July 25, 2003 - World Net Daily article on plans for the medical draft (HCPDS). System could draft up to 80,000 doctors, nurses and specialists, men and women.
      http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33754

      Fall 2003 - In its July 13th , 2004 article, "Could Your Child Be Drafted?", Family Circle reported that in the Fall of 2003, "Karl Rove polled Republican members of Congress on how they felt about the draft. They said they'd support the President."  Despite Family Circle's circulation of 23 million, this charge was never refuted by the White House. http://www.oregonparentsunited.org/article..._be_drafted.htm

      Fall 2003--DoD announces critical skills shortages in linguists, computer experts and engineers. SSS Director Brodsky orders the designing of the SKILLS DRAFT procedures, the registration card, and the massive database needed to track every young American under the age of 35 AND their skills (the first step in creating a database is to decide what data fields are needed). The two-year process to gear up SKILLS DRAFT starts a  year ago, in Fall 2003, meaning a skills draft could be ready in late 2005 (a new law would have to be passed by the Congress and signed by the President along the lines suggested in "Next Steps" at the end of the Skills Draft Agenda document).

      September, 2003 - Acting SSS Director Brodsky, misleads J. E. McNeil, the head of Center on Conscience & War, a Conscientious Objector support and information group, telling her that in February of 2003 the SSS had to "justify their existence" before a hostile committee and that the Skills Draft "planning" was just a way to keep the Selective Service funded for another year.  In reality, the SSS and DoD were having the Skills Draft meeting in that same month of February and he himself had just started designing the new draft registration cards and procedures, making it his top priority when the Pentagon announced the critical skills shortages. http://www.nisbco.org/UAA/03152004.html

      September 23, 2003 - Draft Board Recruitment ad appears on Defense.Link site. First public ad for Draft Boards in decades. Page scrubbed within a few days of being noticed by some media in early November. Spokesman says there is "no plan" to reinstate draft, that it must be authorized by Congress.  Public concern over new draft begins. "If a military draft becomes necessary," the notice explained, "approximately 2,000 Local and Appeal Boards throughout America would decide which young men, who submit a claim, receive deferments, postponements or exemptions from military service, based on Federal guidelines."
      http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/draft-boards.htm

      November 2003--Draft board ad scrubbed.

      
      Nov. 12, 2003 - "If President Bush is re-elected, it is likely that he will reinstate the draft. The war on terrorism will not end in Iraq, but instead will proceed into countries like Syria and Iran," said Daniel Ellsberg, of Pentagon Papers fame.

      Dec. 2003--Acting SSS Director Brodsky announces the Skills Draft to be the "top priority" of the SSS in the Winter 2003 newsletter The Register, talking of rapid progress to come on the Skills Draft. As with the health care draftees, no medical deferments are allowed in the Skills Draft except for total disability. Startling inside information is revealed: "SSS officials consulted with DoD planners to learn that medical personnel, computer specialists and linguists are difficult to recruit and hard to retain.  There are also fears that lengthy and repetitive activations of Guard and Reserve members will boost Reserve Component attrition rates.  So a principal objective of PIP-2003 is to shift the Agency's focus away from maintaining a high state of readiness to execute a large draft of untrained manpower and toward preparing for a much smaller draft of trained personnel possessing critical skills needed for military service in a national crisis."  This is a direct statement the Selective Service is focused on "preparing" a Skills Draft, that it is not just a planning paper or "food for thought".  In addition, there is the internal Pentagon fear that the Guard and Reserves will not meet re-enlistment rates, despite public statements by DoD spokesmen and Rumsfeld himself that a draft is not needed.
      http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/NovDec2003-Register.pdf (go to P. 6)

      March 13, 2004--Word of Skills Draft leaks out in a SF Chronicle story--the SSS admits it but tells reporters it's just a "planning contingency." In a misleading statement to allay fears, the SSS also says it would take 2 years to gear up and work the kinks out of a Skills Draft and that there is no funding for it.  In fact, the SSS admits 6 weeks later that it has been actively designing the procedures and the data fields to be used on the Skills and Medical Registration cards since Fall of 2003 when the Pentagon announced shortages in liguists, computer experts and engineers.  And SSS Spokesman Richard Flavahan contradicts spokesman Amon saying: "We want to gear up and make sure we are capable of providing (those types of draftees) since that's the more likely need," Eric Rosenberg, the reporter on the story, finds out about the Feb. 11 meeting agenda document and files a Freedom of Information Act request to get a copy.

      May 1, 2004--Eric Rosenberg's writes an article on the Skills Draft Agenda memo with the memo in hand--but fails to mention several key points: skills conscription would be expanded to fill labor shortages throughout the Dept of Homeland Security, which is 1/3 of the whole government, the Skills Draft can be called without a combat draft, Skills induction will take a mere 90 days of reauthorization, the SSS wanted to "promptly" change the very MISSION of the SSS, and so on. The article does, however, reveal many major points of the sweeping plan. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/171522_draft01.html

      May 2, 2004 - Second Rosenberg article with memo in hand. ""These ideas were only being floated for Department of Defense consideration," Amon said. He described the proposal as "food for thought" for contingency planning." "Nonetheless, <SSS spokesman and Congressional liason> Flahavan said, "the agency has begun designing procedures to conduct a targeted registration and draft of people with computer and language skills, in case military officials and Congress authorize it."  In actuality, however, the SSS was right then designing the cards and data fields needed for the entire Skills Draft and upgrading the Medical Draft based on that design work, they were not just working on a draft for computer and language skills.  http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/20404.php

      Summer, Fall, 2004--Mock Combat Draft Lottery held, and sample medical exam report orders issued to sample addresses with mailing list software. Alternative Service is geared up for first time in 31 years.  Papers to place Conscientious Objectors with employers as Alternative Service Workers are actually drawn up. With the Alternative Service for the first time geared up in the culmination of a 5-year readiness plan, the SSS is brought up to 95% operational capability.  Full Medical Draft capability is set for 2005, and all DRAFT BOARD vacancies are to be filled by Spring 2005, according to column by Ted Rall.  The SSS must report to the Director on March 31, 2005, that the entire system could be operational within 75 days.  This means that all 1,980 local draft board offices would be open by June 15, 2005.  Theoretically, the first draft lottery for Combat for 20 year-olds and older Skills and Medical registrants could then take place. http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004

      Sept 13, 2004--Agenda memo of key Feb 2003 meeting posted on the Web.  The .PDF file reveals the full scope of the Feb.11 agenda and, in the context of the statements by Flavahan and Brodsky, makes clear the SSS was told by the Pentagon a year ago to go ahead with the Skills Draft.  What Option 3a and 3b at the end of the memo indicates for the future of "virtually every young American" can now be read by everyone, so each person can decide for themselves what it may mean to them.

      Sept 20, 2004 - Howard Dean reports in a column entitled: "Hidden Agenda: A National Draft in the Future?" that two draft board members told him that the Selective Service has informed boards that a draft is coming next year: "Selective Service boards have already been notified that 20-year-olds and medical personnel will be called up first."
      http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_13568.shtml

      Sept 27, 2004 - When the Rocky Mtn News noted the Feb. 11 memo itself was circulating on the Internet, SSS Spokesman Amon "said the memo was authentic, but he called it nothing more than a `food for thought kind of thing' that was largely rejected inside the Pentagon."  These were the same exact words he used in early 2004, despite Flavahan's "gear up" statement, and the revelation that the SSS had been "designing procedures" and data fields for the Skills Draft since Fall of 2003. <ROCKY MTN NEWS> http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/elec...3212279,00.html

      October 7, 2004 - Rock The Vote posts Feb. 11 Agenda memo on their Blog!
      http://blog.rockthevote.com

      

      HANG UP THIS FLYER EVERYWHERE!!
      Printable pdf: http: http://somnamblst.tripod.com/draftalert.pdf

      More: http://blatanttruth.org/draft.php
      

      by RegenerationMan on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:36:17 PM PDT

      •  Here is the fixed link for the Sept 27 2004 Rocky

        Mtn. News article of the FOI Hidden Draft Agenda document:
        http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/election/article/0,1299,DRMN_36_3212279,00.html

        by RegenerationMan on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:55:51 PM PDT

•  Ha ha, how times have changed!

  Parents: "waaah, stop it, don't be so mean!"

  Kids: "CLEAN YOUR ROOM!"

  by McMasters on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:05:45 PM PDT

  •  Been using this since last year

    When dean's campaign was flying high on youth energy, the phrase occurred to me:

    "Give me the keys, dad. You're drunk."

    It's a nice summary of how I feel about politics. Or there's these great lyrics:

    Don't believe them
    Don't believe them
    Question everything you're told

    Just take a look around you
    At the bitterness and spite
    Why can't we take over and try to put it right

    -- Stiff Little Fingers, Suspect Device

    by Outlandish Josh on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:54:10 PM PDT

•  Admit it -- Rove kicked our ass again

  Kerry crushes Bush 3 times.
  Voter fraud and disenfranchisement exposed on blogs.
  What is the news in all major papers?
  Mary Cheney.

  If Dems don't wake up, they'll be shocked to wake up Nov. 3 having lost.

  by veganpa on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:08:17 PM PDT

  •  uhh...

    I've checked a few newspaper's websites, and it's a minor note in several of them.  But also noted are articles about the debate, about Iraq, about the stockmarket, etc.

    The news today is not helpful to Bush's chances.  

    The patently transparent whining of the Cheneys in no way drowns out the realities of Bush's failed presidency.  

    Rove kicked our a**?

    I don't think so.  If that's the best he can do, he'd better start polishing off his resume.

    by Ernest T Bass on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:15:02 PM PDT

    •  yes, beat. Had nothing, got something

      All three papers (NYT, LAT, WP) had it. Did any have all the voter fraud?

      by veganpa on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:29:10 PM PDT

      •  They'll always get SOMETHING...

        SCLM always looks for "balance."

        by HeavyJ on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:32:28 PM PDT

  •  Ads will help

    The DNC ads from the debate will help.  Contentious political ads usually create some media exposure.  You're right that it is disappointing that there has been so little focus on Bush's debate performance, but I suspect that will change.

    The Mary Cheney thing isn't going anywhere.  It doesn't play into any narrative. (Kerry hates gays?  Come on.)  By tomorrow it'll be gone without a trace.  Heck, even "Rathergate" hardly lasted a week.

    by stillnotking on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:50:01 PM PDT

  •  It's much louder --

    here in the blogosphere than in the main stream.  Blogs on the left and right are screaming about it, but the media seems to think it's a non-starter from what I've watched and listened to.

    Personally, I take a 100% opposite position....  Echoing Digby....

    Do you really think that it's wise strategy on the part of Rove to have the words "Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter" repeated over and over and over again given his obvious and stated intentions and proclivity for the fundie vote?

    I mean -- maybe he's trying to cover Bush's answer on illegal immigrants which seems to be playing very poorly on some freeper sites.

    They did a horrid job appealing to women in the final debate- as opposed to Kerry, and I think Tim Russert had a point that the playoff game likely tilted the debate viewership towards a female majority.  They did virtually nothing to secure any undecideds... almost ceding them entirely to Kerry.

    NOW they try to appeal to "good" Americans?  While at the same time still trying to lock up the base (3 weeks before the election)?

    Doesn't sound to ME like Rove played this one well....  If anything, BC04 is in complete disarray.  I gotta think Bush is thinking to himself "Dammit Karl, I'm about ready to send YOU to Tora Bora to get Bin Laden if you don't start getting it right."

    by zonk on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:54:08 PM PDT

    •  still trying to lock up the base !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      that says it all

      From 90% approval ratings in October of 2001

      toooo

      still trying to lock up the base 3 weeks before the election

      OOOHHHH  YEA

      Rove really kicked ous asses

      Just keep those kicks coming

      by knowthings on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 12:33:46 AM PDT

  •  then

    let's control the spin.  Flood media outlets with letters/emails that discuss Bush's "I'm not concerned with Osama Bin Laden" flip-flop.  Talk about the ultimate flip-flop!!!!

    Let's flood 'em so they have to pay attention.

    [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], 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[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

    by wisdude on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 06:30:40 PM PDT

    •  list

      doesn't work bro

      by Rick22 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 06:52:53 PM PDT

    •  Wow!

      That's an unbelievable mailing list.  Thanks.

      by 45rpm on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:30:29 PM PDT

      •  well

        I can't claim credit.  Someone else posted it here.  Note that some will bounce back, but I think most work.

        by wisdude on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:34:09 PM PDT

    •  Spam

      ...Is no way to win.
      

      by lilithvf1998 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 08:23:36 PM PDT

  •  Actually,

    As a homo myself, I think that it may actually help--unlike everyone, I thought it was a good point. If you make your out and partnered lesbian daughter an important part of your re-election staff, then you obviously have no problem with homosexuality. So, if your running mate thinks (much like evolution) the jury is out on whether it is a choice, then there are "mixed messages" about homosexuality. I wonder, any of you with knowledge of Southern Baptists, wasn't Bush's answer one that won't "rally the troops"

    by ChicagoDem79 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 09:03:18 PM PDT

•  Hehe

  Time for them to point out that the head of Rock the Vote is a (insert whatever evil thing you want here).

  by Troutnut on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:08:30 PM PDT

•  No draft, but...

    I honestly don't think there will be a draft: people wouldn't stand for it today. But, you have to ask,  how are they going to pull off years of occupation as well as our other commitments without one? How long can the Guard and reserves take this? We are going to be in Iraq 2 years minimum,but more than likely 5 years. Something has to give.

  by Parise on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:09:55 PM PDT

  •  I don't think we need a draft either

    If benefits for soldiers and veterans were raised significantly, more people might be willing to go.  Of course Bush is only interested in cutting benefits and treating soldiers like crap.  So I think the draft is much less likely with Kerry in charge than with Bush.  

    Michael

    by perpetualstudent on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:15:35 PM PDT

    •  Here's the problem

      If we were fighting a war that actually had to do with protecting America, we would have NO trouble signing up enough troops. The President would simply have to ask. But as long as we are fighting a war in Iraq that has no connection to our national security, it will be hard to maintain those troop levels.

      by existenz on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:30:41 PM PDT

      •  I agree completely

        but I also think that we should be treating those who served or are serving better.  

        Michael

        by perpetualstudent on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:35:21 PM PDT

    •  huh?

      "If benefits for soldiers and veterans were raised significantly, more people might be willing to go. "

      What, exactly, would motivate you yourself to go?  If the beenies don't interest you, then you can't expect others to pony up for less?  So what exactly will rev your engine?

      by Phalamir on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:13:27 PM PDT

  •  I'm afraid people would stand for it.

    What have we learned from the last 3 years? People will stand for an unwarranted military invasion so long as their country isn't being invaded. People will stand for a war as long so they don't have to fight it. People will stand for untold civilian casualties so long as it's not civilians like them. People will stand for "disappearances" and government violations of the rule of law so long as those who disappear are suspected terrorists. People will stand for curtailed civil liberties as long as their government tells them "9/11 changed everything."

    by machopicasso on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:27:05 PM PDT

  •  What Kerry has said on this...

    Kerry has said he wants to increase the US military by another 40,000 volunteer soliers to avoid the draft.

    by MaineMerlin on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:27:21 PM PDT

  •  5 years???

    5 years?  Hahahahaha. Remember Korea? There are still U.S. troops there, 50 years after "major combat operations" were over (can't say the war ended since no peace treaty was ever signed).
    

    by elishastephens on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:52:47 PM PDT

    •  Yes, but there are none in Vietnam

      Still think we can't be out in 5 years ???

      alter your perspective, failure has always been an option

      George Bush doesn't want you to know it, but failure has always one of the possible outcomes

      by knowthings on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 01:12:01 AM PDT

      •  unfortunatly....

        there still are soldiers in Vietnam,  their bodies have  yet to be returned home to be buried..

        by dukestriker on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 09:01:20 AM PDT

  •  but would Bush care?

    I honestly don't think there will be a draft: people wouldn't stand for it today.

    I see your point, but this presumes that Bush and his neo-conservative cronies would rationally think through the dire consequences that a draft would produce. Time and again, BushCo has proven that they simply are not rational human beings. Hell, I'll even go as far as to say that they're fucking insane.

    by pine on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 06:34:53 PM PDT

    •  but would Bush care?

      We also thought people wouldn't stand for the dismantling of Social Security (remember it was always the so-called 'third rail' of politics), but Bush & Co. are well on their way to doing just that, and the public is blindly following along because they think they're getting more 'choice.'  

      All they have to do to gain widespread acceptance of a military draft is to make up a happy-sounding name for it, dress it up as a 'jobs and education program,' explain that it's about expanding 'career choice and opportunities' to the great unwashed, and provide the necessary exemptions for the noisy upper middle class and BOOM.

      The 'BOOM' being the sound of more bombs exploding beneath the feet of all the people who have been tricked into believing the lie.

      by SingularExistence on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 07:29:15 AM PDT

  •  A draft wouldn't even work

    I'm not sure how long it takes these days to train a recruit up to full effectiveness, but I'm assuming it's many months or longer.  At the end, the military wouldn't get an effective combat ready force out of it.  (And you would have lots of draftees trying to figure out how to game the system.)

    You would have to be out of your mind to propose this -- so it's a safe bet it's under consideration in the Bush administration.

    by liberaldregs on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:33:34 PM PDT

•  "Reckless disregard for the truth",..

  MY SWEET ASS!!!

  Gillespie's enjoyed the creature comforts of 3&3/4 years with a timid White House press corps; he's not used to people reflecting critically on the present situation and rationally assessing what might come next. And I'm sure the fact that Gillespie's above the draft age has nothing to do with it, either.

  by machopicasso on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:10:22 PM PDT

•  I think Gillespie made a Faustian deal...

  He traded his chin for the RNC Chairman position.

  by sbrook1564 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:10:33 PM PDT

  •  I did a spit take with that one. . .

    by Monstertron on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 06:54:57 PM PDT

•  I read Gillespie's bleating on Atrios

  But that reply deep sixes the bastard.

  by HeavyJ on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:11:40 PM PDT

•  Chairman Mao Gillespie of the Taliban

  And Ed Gillespie,  you want a crying towel?   You sound like a Girlie Man.  You sound Unfit to Command.  You sound Weak.  You sound like you don't have what it takes to defend this country.

  Your whinning and handwringing only projects "Weakness," and this country can't afford  your mixed message to the "thugs, killers, and evil doers" in Afghanistan.

  You're only helping the Terrorists, after all - "they hate us for our freedoms."

  by Al Rodgers on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:12:07 PM PDT

•  Live by the whisper campaign,

  die by the whisper campaign.  

  George Bush was able to defeat Ann Richards because of a whisper campaign that was launched alleging all sorts of crap.  That was the start of his political career.  Isn't it ironic that he could end his career by an uncoordinated whisper campaign based on truth?  Although the draft fears are fact-based,I admit there is a lot of speculation out there about such other things as:  Did Bush wear an earpiece?  Did Bush have a stroke?  Is he suffering from pre-senile dementia?  

  Take that Rove and crawl back into the hole you came from.

  Michael

  by perpetualstudent on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:12:35 PM PDT

•  as the parent of 3 draft age children

  Ed Gillspie can go take a flying f*ck at a rolling donut.

  by moe99 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:12:45 PM PDT

•  The draft thing has legs

  I think that and F911 are going to have a huge impact on this election. I'm not part of the youth vote, but anecdotal evidence from places far, far away from Seattle and Madison are hinting that it may be sizable this year.

  Of course, the only poll that counts is in November.

  by Zach in Phoenix on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:12:50 PM PDT

  •  I am part of the youth vote.

    And the youth voters I know are pissed.

    by Max2k on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:29:30 PM PDT

•  ...moron.

  "Your "Draft Your Friends" campaign is being conducted with malicious intent and reckless disregard for the truth,"
  
  Republicans contend the draft talk is a Democrat-inspired scare tactic to drum up votes against President Bush .
  
  
  And this is different to  the mailer the GOP sent out in West Virginia???  (The one saying Kerry was going to ban the bible)

  Sounds like Rat Boy Eddy G. needs just shut up. (stating the obvious)

  by cosmos on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:13:32 PM PDT

  •  amoral, not a moron

    You're thinking as an ethical person, one for whom standards equally to all.  Folks like Gillespie aren't like that.

    by jqb on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:18:15 PM PDT

  •  Yes, it's different.

    No conceivable rational extrapolation of Democratic policy leads to bible-banning.  However, it's entirely reasonable to extrapolate the Bush Administration's belligerent militarism to increased troop requirements, and thus to a draft.

    by magney on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:28:51 PM PDT

    •  Why ban The Bible?

      Nobody reads it anyway.

      by ben masel on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 05:50:32 PM PDT

•  AZ Republic

  Go tell The Arizona Republic who you're going to vote for. Left side.

  by Mad AZ Monk on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:13:32 PM PDT

•  Disbanding the RNC

  If the RNC continues to break the law as it has with its vote registration suppersion and violate the rights of other organizations could it be disbanded?  Is that even possiable?  Could the government close their offices and seize their funds.  Just a thought.

  by Cthulhugus on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:16:58 PM PDT

•  What to do? What else!

  Let's have a terra alert!

  But wait--what if we staged a terraist attack, and nobody came?

  by iconoclastic cat on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:18:06 PM PDT

•  the sec of def "heatedly denied.."

  is the term Gillespie uses as evidence that there will be no draft.  As I recall, Clinton heatedly denied having sex with Monica, and was impeached for it.  Will we be impeaching Rummy if they institute a draft?

  by fabacube on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:20:26 PM PDT

•  Daaaaaaaamn!

  by MaineMerlin on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:25:28 PM PDT

  •  These beats...

    they're so FRESH!

    by Max2k on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:30:51 PM PDT

•  Rock the Vote rocks!

  That was a great letter. Nice to see that chump Gillespie get bitch-slapped by somebody who knows the facts and won't buy his spin.

  If only these "pundits" on TV fired back at these spinmeisters with the same righteous indignation.

  by existenz on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:25:45 PM PDT

•  Like Deficits

  FACT: WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH TROOPS TO MEET OUR OBLIGATIONS.

  Saying there won't be a draft is like saying there won't be a tax increase.  You pay one way or the other.  You pay through taxes or you pay through lower standard of living because of the accumulated debt.

  We WILL pay now with more troops through a draft or we WILL pay later with reduced security because every other country knows we do not have enough troops.

  by davej on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:25:51 PM PDT

•  Questions

  So, does this "cease and desist" letter have any legal force, or does it just simulate a letter that would? Or does it suggest that one with legal force is on the way?

  by AlanF on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:38:09 PM PDT

•  This is intimidation

  Who owns MTV? When is their FCC license up for renewal? Or whatever, you get my drift.

  by HargroveDW on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:38:16 PM PDT

  •  Viacom owns MTV

    and Sumner Redstone is a Bush-backer.

    by mini mum on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 05:31:47 AM PDT

    •  Sumner Redstone

      But if he tells Rock the Vote to shut-up, he knows he'll lose a ton of audience. Think of the boycott that would arise if he did that, not to mention adding more fuel to the fire of the Sinclair thing . . .

      But that's okay. Just keep giving us more and more reasons to take back our airwaves.

      by MillieNeon on Sat Oct 16, 2004 at 12:48:11 PM PDT

•  If Gillespie tries to shut Rock The Vote up

  he's going to have to shut Tim Ryan (D-Ohio) up too.

  I rise in opposition of this bill, but I would like to clarify something. We are not trying to scare kids. This President's foreign policy is what is scaring the kids of this country. And people have said today, why are people believing this? Why are people believing this big Internet hoax?

     It is the same people who told us that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11; the same people who told us Saddam Hussein had something to do with weapons of mass destruction; the same people who told us we would be able to use the oil for reconstruction money; the same people who told us we would be greeted as liberators, not occupiers; the same people, the same President who told us the Taliban is gone; the same President who told us that Poland is our ally 2 days before they pull out; the same President who tells us Iraq is going just great; the same President who tells us the economy is going just great; the same people who told us the tax cuts were going to create millions of jobs; the same people who told us that the Medicare program only cost $400 billion when it really cost $540 billion.

     So please forgive us for not believing what you are saying. Please forgive the students of this country for not believing what you are saying. Not one thing, not one thing about this war that has been told to the American people or that has been told to these college students has been true. Not one thing. Bremer says we need more troops. The Pentagon says we need more troops, and this President cannot get them from the international community. There is only one option left. Let us be honest with the American people.

  Someone knows where the video of this is, no doubt.

  This issue is NOT going away. Kids are scared, and the Republicans caused it. They can deal with it.

  by Our Man In Redmond on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:39:49 PM PDT

  •  They're not scared enough.

    "Kids are scared, and the Republicans caused it."

    Kids aren't scared enough. I was watching Hardball the other night on location at a college campus and the screen was filled with rabid Bush/Cheney supporters.

    I just sat there snickering to myself, thinking "I SO can't wait until you are drafted, you stupid ignoramouses (ignorami???)" Of course, the wealthy ones will probably be able to dodge the bullet with the help of their pandering Congressional Representatives.

    by SingularExistence on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 07:33:56 AM PDT

•  I'm placing bets

  Although I love the Boss and would wager he could whip Gillespie in a brawl, I have to admit that I wish Metallica were involved somehow.  Not only would Hetfield's response be far shorter (two words, guess which ones), but he would be a far better and more aggressive person to deliver an anti-authority message.

  by bonddad on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:42:40 PM PDT

  •  Why Metallica favors the draft

    It gets kids away from their broadband connections. </snark>

    by ben masel on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 06:13:24 PM PDT

•  Sort of joking

  
  Draft old people, esp. old people who favored the war.  

  (Gee, could this be Bush's plan for saving social security?)

  by avoter on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:42:50 PM PDT

•  This is an amazing answer.

  Hey - My first reply!

  I would love to see this published in a full page ad in a major newspaper.

  by nestor on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 04:59:41 PM PDT

•  Tell Ed Gillespie

  that you take it all back when he and his children ENLIST and VOLUNTEER to go to Iraq!

  by jhewett on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 06:12:48 PM PDT

•  Hi -new here...

  And very new to getting involved in politics (shame on me)
  I have been lurking around Dem blogs so I didn't feel so alone as I live in ultra conservative Southeast Alabama. Color me jealous of the people who have a chance to see their state go Blue Nov. 2 :o)

  I did want to share a new voter fraud story from  nearby Bay County, Florida- not as big as some of the other stories out there, and no specific party has been named- but being so close to home (we get their NBC affiliate here) it did alarm me that first time voters-specifically college aged kids- were being targeted.
  There is a link where voters from the area can go check on their registration in the article.

  http://www.wjhg.com/home/headlines/1102101.html

  by smokem2271 on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 06:27:37 PM PDT

  •  Welcome

    Welcome to the community.  And don't worry, we're going to get this country to go with Blue Crew (Go Kerry!) this year.

    by Calee4nia on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 06:56:09 PM PDT

  •  Hey there.

    Welcome!

    Just one thing--we were all new to being politically involved at some point.  No shame at all!  :<D

    by AuntiePeachy on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:41:56 PM PDT

•  Typical

  The Republicans always want us to shut up when we say something that is counter to their agenda.  The reality is that:

  • Bush will never say that we need the draft until he is re-elected
    
  • Bush lies about everything else, so why believe him now?
    
  • You know PNAC has plans for Syria, or Iran, and that means tons more troops.  Tons.  

  I'm tired of being told I'm not a patriot because I disagree with the Republicans.  My alliegence is to the Constitution, not the RNC party platform.  The Rock the Vote movement is more patriotic than a lot of those flag waving right-wingers who are doing their level best to eliminate the Constitution.

  Ed can go Cheney himself.
  

  by Calee4nia on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 06:52:45 PM PDT

•  Local Draft Boards

  Remember about a year ago when, for a few days, the Selective Service website had applications up about serving on your local draft board ? Then a few days later they vanished off the website...

  Well, I filled one out. And then they sent me a huge bunch of paperwork to fill out. So I did.

  A co-worker/freeper who listens to Ann Coulter was talking about how the whole draft thing was a Democrat plot. I told him about how I applied for the draft board a year ago. He accused me of lying. I showed him the paperwork. He said it looked like something Dan Rather would make.

  I reminded him that I have served my country, and he has not. He waddled off to his office because Rush was about to come on...

  It is so obvious that a draft was forthcoming. But the Kerry campaign, in a move trademarked by Rove, called Bush on it.

  And now that one single item, the Draft, may well be what drives Bush out of office...

  by exNavalOfficer on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:11:21 PM PDT

  •  It's amazing...

    ...how deep in denial folks can be!  As if you have nothing better to do with your time but plan an elaborate ruse to do ... what?  Win an argument with him?

    Self-obsessed AND in denial.  Wow.

    by AuntiePeachy on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:59:33 PM PDT

•  What RTV didn't say

  Mr. Greene, responding to Gillespie for Rock The Vote, was quite felicitous in saying "just because [politicians] say there is not going to be a draft doesn't make it so." If not so polite, he may just have well have written, "We can't trust or believe you because you lied us into a war. If you'll lie to kill and have our troops killed, what prevents you from lying to get young people in uniform?" Of course, they're being lied to, and not only because of the specific instance of Iraq and its troop demands to which Greene refers. Anybody who thinks Iraq is the end of the Bush Administration's foreign adventurism is a fool. Iran has ample oil reserves and DOES have potential nuclear capabilities. Syria, while not possessing oil or WMDs - although, of course, neither did Iraq and you see where that lead - is a concern to Israel, which makes it a likely BushCo target. With the ability of Bush and his cronies to shield their children in safe Guard units should the draft be reinstituted - certainly Bush understands that little trick - there is no deterrent to a draft, especially in a lame-duck second term.

  Rock The Vote, keep the drumbeat going.

  by MoCrash on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:25:43 PM PDT

  •  Good post.

    I just want to respectfully say that Jehmu Greene is a woman--a woman who's not taking Ed's crap.

    Good for her.  Good for Rock the Vote.
    

    by AuntiePeachy on Thu Oct 14, 2004 at 07:51:28 PM PDT

    •  Oops

      My bad.

      My compliments to her nonetheless for sticking by her guns.

      by MoCrash on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 04:29:09 AM PDT

      •  No worries :<D

        by AuntiePeachy on Fri Oct 15, 2004 at 05:28:29 AM PDT

•  Selective Service Lottery

  Just looking at the page will make your blood run cold.

  http://www.sss.gov/fslottery.htm

  by easong on Sat Oct 16, 2004 at 10:13:53 AM PDT

•  Draft

  If you want to be convincing, call for abolishing draft registration.  It would take longer to set up the training camps than to induct people, so continuing registration is simply a waste of money.

  by phillies on Sat Oct 16, 2004 at 12:41:23 PM PDT

•  As George would say.....he, he, he, he, he

  This issue has legs. One draft trumps 2 "outraged parents" of a gay daughter anyday.

  by sandbar on Sat Oct 16, 2004 at 02:16:00 PM PDT