Daily Kos

US failed to secure Iraq explosives

Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:36:37 PM PDT

Josh gives us the gist of the story that will be top of the fold on the Washington Post New York Times Monday morning:
Some 350 tons of high explosives (RDX and HMX), which were under IAEA seal while Saddam was in power, were looted during the early days of the US occupation. Like so much else, it was just left unguarded.

Not only are these super-high-yield explosives probably being used in many, if not most, of the various suicide and car bombings in Iraq, but these particular explosives are ones used in the triggering process for nuclear weapons.

In other words, it's bad stuff.

What also emerges in the Nelson Report is that the Defense Department has been trying to keep this secret for some time. The DOD even went so far as to order the Iraqis not to inform the IAEA that the materials had gone missing. Informing the IAEA, of course, would lead to it becoming public knowledge in the United States.

This is rank incompetence that has directly resulted in the deaths of hundreds of our men and women in uniform, as well as other allied and innocent Iraqis.

And a coverup attempt to top it all off. If Josh is right, the Post is just the first of many papers tackling this explosive issue. (No pun intended.)

Update: The story has been posted online. This one is big, folks.

The Iraqi interim government has warned the United States and international nuclear inspectors that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives - used to demolish buildings, produce missile warheads and detonate nuclear weapons - are missing from one of Iraq's most sensitive former military installations.

The huge facility, called Al Qaqaa, was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no-man's land, still picked over by looters as recently as Saturday. United Nations weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished after the American invasion last year [...]

American weapons experts say their immediate concern is that the explosives could be used in major bombing attacks against American or Iraqi forces: the explosives, mainly HMX and RDX, could be used to produce bombs strong enough to shatter airplanes or tear apart buildings. The bomb that brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988 used less than a pound of the material of the type stolen from Al Qaqaa, and somewhat larger amounts were apparently used in the bombing of a housing complex in November 2003 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and the blasts in a Moscow apartment complex in September 1999 that killed nearly 300 people.

The explosives could also be used to trigger a nuclear weapon, which was why international nuclear inspectors had kept a watch on the material. But the other components of an atom bomb - the design and the radioactive fuel - are more difficult to obtain. "This is a high explosives risk, but not necessarily a proliferation risk," one senior Bush administration official said.

The International Atomic Energy Agency publicly warned about the danger of these explosives before the war, and after the invasion it specifically told United States officials about the need to keep the explosives secured, European diplomats said in interviews last week.

380 tons. Less than one pound was used to bring down Pan Am Flight 103. The terrorists hit the mother lode, all thanks to Bush.
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  •  Freepers react to NYT bombshell (4.00 / 8)

    Just did an extended browse through the messages reacting to the NYT story.

    The Freepers seem unsettled, even scared:

    IS this good or bad for Bush?

    5 posted on 10/24/2004 7:22:48 PM PDT by tdice7

    --

    We need to get on this one fast, people. Start smearing the NYT, smear the reporter, and focus on the WMD angle. This could be bad...reinforces the dem media narrative that we didn't plan the war carefully. We need to silence this, fast! WHERE'S OUR SURPRISE!!??!!??

    14 posted on 10/24/2004 7:26:32 PM PDT by johannes89a

    --

    The only thing that the MSM will take from this is "it disappeared after the invasion." No one will ask the other questions about Saddam having this or what he intended to do with it or if it was safe to just permit Saddam to stay in power possessing it, etc. Nope, this will all be about "Bush guarded the oil ministry but not the explosives."

    SPIT

    19 posted on 10/24/2004 7:27:26 PM PDT by Petronski (On the land in the air on the sea, let's swing out to Victory. --Fats Waller

    --

     Two points are made

     1) not enough troops or planning were provided for nation building
     2) the Administration attempted to hide the loss from the IAEA - apparently for political reasons

     The first point is just beating a dead horse. The second...?
    28 posted on 10/24/2004 7:29:42 PM PDT by liberallarry
    [ Post Reply  | Private Reply  | To 1  | View Replies  | Report Abuse

    --

    nothing new to see here lets move on now
    w2004
    ciao

    36 posted on 10/24/2004 7:30:47 PM PDT by italianquaker (CATHOLIC AND I VOTE)
     [ Post Reply  | Private Reply  | To 1  | View Replies  | Report Abuse ]

    --

    The administration has known this would probably be coming.. I'm sure they have something in the can ready to go.

    I expect this story to be turned on it's head by Monday night.

    41 posted on 10/24/2004 7:31:18 PM PDT by Josh in PA
    [ Post Reply  | Private Reply  | To 29  | View Replies  | Report Abuse ]

    --

     Oh,...well, I guess we now wait and see what the other newspaper, reported today, is writing...I believe it is the Washington Post, front page story by Mowbray...either way...just don't think this is something that can hurt Bush..it happened and now we an entrenched....God I can't wait for this election to get over with...TOO much negatives and not enough gelling together to support our soldiers and fight the bad guys....This is another reason I do not feel this article is going to hurt much....WE ARE TIRED of hit pieces on our President!!!!
    47 posted on 10/24/2004 7:34:00 PM PDT by IndianPrincessOK (Native American pleading for Truth!)
     [ Post Reply  | Private Reply  | To 22  | View Replies  | Report Abuse ]

    --

    Any news organization or "reporter" that breaks an october surprise story this week should be given the egg treatment.

    62 posted on 10/24/2004 7:36:01 PM PDT by samadams2000 ("Did they get you to trade, your heroes for ghosts")
     [ Post Reply  | Private Reply  | To 42  | View Replies  | Report Abuse ]

    •  Pathetic. (3.50 / 4)

      They want to smear the reporter? What a bunch of assholes.

      "But Democrats mustn't give up the fight. What's at stake isn't just the fate of their party, but the fate of America as we know it."-Paul Krugman

      by theprogressivemiddle on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:42:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agree (4.00 / 5)

        They don't even seem to care that this administration's incompetence is getting the soldiers, whom they claim to respect sooo much, killed.  Cheneytards.

        McCain: Less jobs, more war.

        by Unstable Isotope on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:46:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Excellent, excellent point. (none / 0)

          "But Democrats mustn't give up the fight. What's at stake isn't just the fate of their party, but the fate of America as we know it."-Paul Krugman

          by theprogressivemiddle on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:51:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Good point. Who supports the troops? (none / 1)

          Guess THEY don't

          They only support the troops'right to kill Muslims.

          •  Oh, they support the troops... (4.00 / 4)

            albeit from a very great distance.

            The IPCC predicts average global temperatures to rise enough by 2050 to put 20-30% of all species at risk for extinction.

            by Plan9 on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 08:17:30 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Joe Republican (4.00 / 2)

            A Typical Day For A Bush Lover! (from Yahoo boards)

            9:45: Wake up

            10AM: Log onto an internet message board, make fun of soldiers who want to come home, calling them gay from the comfort of the computer in mom's basement.

            10:15AM: Hear news of Bush's latest FVCKUP and immediately decide that it was Kerry's fault!!

            12:30PM: On the way to Dairy Queen for the hourly sundae, pass by the Veterans hospital, and not even give it a passing glance.

            1:28: Steal the change out of the cup of a legless sleeping vet

            2:35: Call in to the local fat and lonely radio conservative's show and give the thumbs up to the president for the phenomenal job of cutting veterans benefits...while the "support our troops" sticker flakes off the back of the old 87 Dodge.

            3:15: Mom brings down lunch. Down it with a milkshake and some oxy.

            5:38: Tune into the Fox News channel for some fair and balanced reporting. Word has it 3 troops died in a roadside bombing in Fallujah, 7 injured. Being a patriotic news station, they aren't
            showing the death and destruction and being all negative like those Commies over at the BBC.

            8:15: Mom calls out for dinner.

            9:30: Reads about soldiers being disciplined for daring to criticize the great great war, and not having enough bullet proof vests to go around, and having their mail censored, and the constant stomach flu, and all other kinds of gay complaints only a liberal queer could make. Logs on to Free Republic to rant about it.

            10:30: Fall asleep dreaming about Ann Coulter

            The Permanent Republican Majority lasted about as long as The Thousand Year Reich

            by lawnorder on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 12:41:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  That is easy (none / 1)

          because it's not their butts in harms way.  Easy for them to puff up their chest and talk tough on a computer half a word away.
        •  The George Bush Suicide Cult (none / 1)

          These guys aren't Republicans, they're Branch Davidians.  This distinction could be very useful us now and after the election.  

          Tom DeLay's GOP: cheating America in a time of war.

          by Tom Frank on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 09:37:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. Smear and silence. (4.00 / 4)

        Obviously, refuting things is outside their skill level

        Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say... (from "Creatures of Light and Darkness", R. Zelazny)

        by SadEagle on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:47:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Under seal (none / 1)


        Petronski doesn 't seem to understand the meaning of under seal, that this was secured so it could only be used for legit purposes.  It wasn't being used by Iraq to harm anyone.

         Not it is being used to kill Americans and Iraqis.

         They really need to just admit that Bush totally screwed up.   This was predicted by State Department planning groups and there were warnings from the military, but they didn't have any plan to prevent looting.  

    •  Thanks for reading (3.66 / 3)

      So we don't have to! :)

      McCain: Less jobs, more war.

      by Unstable Isotope on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:47:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Freeper morons (4.00 / 4)

      Notice that all their comments have nothing to do with the accoutability, responsibility, or outrage at the news. Instead they are focused on:

      1. How do we cover this up?
      2. Smear the messengers!

      If the report had to do with some revelation that Bush murdered Laura and buried her in the Rose Garden, they'd also resort to #1 and #2.
      •  freeping freepers (none / 1)

        Freeping freepers.  

        Let's Freep the freeping freepers back to freeperville!

        (sorry had a smurfy moment there)

        Viva la Open Source! Download Mozilla Firefox and leave explorer forever!

        by circuithead on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:54:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Beeeeeeeeat the Freeper! (none / 1)

          Does anyone else immediately think of the Firesign Theater skit "Beat the Reaper!" when they hear this?  I've had it stuck in my head all week, and finally had to just play the cd.

          Is what I am doing *right now* leading to happiness?

          by jbdigriz on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 08:15:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i want freep! (none / 0)

              hehehe.  every time i see freepers, or hear the word 'freep', i think of an old bugs bunny cartoon (high diving hare?) with yosemite sam and bugs bunny- the basic plot being that sam is at the circus to see the amazing fearless freep jump off the extra-high dive into a glass of water; freep never shows up; sam attempts to draft bugs into taking the dive, and naturally sam is the eventual diver.
              but the dialogue that always comes to mind: 'where's freep?  i want freep!  feeeeeeearless freep!'  
              yeah, immature, but a fond memory of childhood completely applicable to modern politics.  these people are the collective political embodiment of yosemite sam.
          •  Actually, Blue Oyster Cult (none / 0)

            Dont Fear the Freeper
          •  FT references (none / 0)

            I think of the phrase "Don't take off your shoes. Jobs is on the way" from 'dwarf' every time I go through airport security.

            Freedom does not march. I saw an invasion. I see an occupation. I don't see a war. "Constant war is not a family value." Cindy Sheehan 8/22/05

            by ex republican on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 06:47:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Some insight, though. (none / 1)

        At FR we can see the Republican meme-in-the-making process.

        a. The materials could have disappeared under Saddam.
        b. Iraq was full of explosives anyway.
        c. This proves there were WMD after all.
        d. If the IAEA thought it was dangerous they should have taken it out themselves (!).

        And so forth. Just some talking points to watch out for.

    •  What conceivable smear of a reporter (none / 1)

      could possibly put a dent in the FACT that, once again, BushCo blew it ?

      Let's get some Democracy for America

      by murphy on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 08:06:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Let me get this straight: (4.00 / 3)

      "United Nations weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished after the American invasion last year"

      So in other words, the UN had effectively monitored the explosives.  Then when the war started, everything got so FUBAR that the explosives were lost?  

      •  Yep (4.00 / 2)

        That's pretty much it, except that they've been missing since April 2003 (if I recall TPM's article) and the administration LIED about it to the UN.

        Absolutely amazing, isn't it?

        PS - If I may be bold enough to slightly edit your sig line...

        1. Invade Iraq
        2. ?????
        3. Democracy!
        4. Profit!!!
         (sorry - too much time reading Slashdot)

        "Science is defined by how you ask the question, not the question you ask."

        by themis on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 08:28:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  that's pretty much (none / 1)

        what the article says!  And, that the missing explosives (all 380 tons--wow!) create an almost limitless supply for insurgents to use to blow up US military Humvees and for car bombings and the like.  These explosives are being used against US troops and Iraqi civilians.... Pretty FUBAR.

        But the UN was so, you know ... Old Europe.

      •  "God told me to invade Iraq" (none / 1)

        Some god you have there Bush, you have fucked up everything possible.  Lost weapons, an insurgency on par with the viet cong, Chalabi taking you for an Iranian ride, "control" of like 5% of Iraq, 50 dead iraqi recruits found today, 1100+ soldiers dead, 15,000 innocent civillians dead (thats 5 9/11's!), torture from Saddam's own handbook, the world hates us, terrorists are recruiting at a record rate, etc.

        And they actually said "Cakewalk" and "they would be throwing flowers at us."

      •  Let me get this straight, #2....... (none / 0)

        So.....when Clinton was President, this explosive material was safely secured.

        But under Bush, this material was left unguarded and is now being used to kill American troops.

        Got it.

        *How could 59,054,087 people be so DUMB?*

        by clueless on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 09:44:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  How in the HELL (none / 0)

        Can Bushco EVER reconcile these two statements into a coherent response:
        Before the war, inspectors with the Vienna-based IAEA had kept tabs on the so-called "dual use" explosives because they could have been used to detonate a nuclear weapon.

        AND THIS
        Bush's national security adviser, Condoleeza Rice, was informed of the missing explosives in the past month, the report said.

        What did Condi THINK was happening to the weapons all this time. It is clearly common knowledge that they existed before the war, and Condi is only JUST NOW becoming 'informed' of this information? Our National Security Adviser didnt know all along that something THIS DANGEROUS had occurred SOOO demonstrably?

        It's beyond all reason. Im out of adjectives to describe the level of incompetence that has been reached. Truly, I'll need a thesaurus to go on.

    •  Ugh... (none / 1)

      Laughable, but not unexpected. My favorite, for its succinctness:
      nothing new to see here lets move on now w2004
      No, it sadly isn't anything new. And I, along with the rest of the nation, will take your advice on November 2nd.
    •  here's something to freep (none / 0)

      the article on yahoo news.

      http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20041025/ap_o n_re_mi_ea/nuclear_agency_iraq

      vote!

      There is NO angle to this story other than Bush is fucking incompetent. The best thing we can do is keep this shit on the front page of every newspaper every day until the election.

      Where are your priorities Mr. President?

      Everybody LTE!

    •  CLINTON 'S APPEARANCE WILL ENERGIZE STORY (none / 0)

      Bill Clinton's big appearance later today has been much anticipated by the press.  They have been waiting for months to see him come out.  Today Kerry will get way above average coverage because the big dawg has come out.  As a result this story, which is giant anyway, will be even greater.  It is a haearbreaking demonstration of this Administrations profound incompetence.

      Keep the Faith, Vote, and Never Give Up!

  •  This may be the October Surprise (4.00 / 4)

    ...going the opposite direction..

    I think Kerry needs to hammer this point of incompetence and deception for therest of th time til the election... when he talked about Iraq after the 1st debate.. his #'s went up... when he stopped and went to economy.. his #;s stalled

    All Iraq incompetence.. all the time John.

    •  Dead soliders (none / 1)

      it is not just incompetence
      •  Exactly... Watergate 2 anyone? (none / 1)

        ..and the fact that its a big coverup to hide the incompetence... and shall I say it.. criminal negligence for political reasons.
        •  Impeach! (none / 1)

          This administration should be impeached.  I'll settle for a loss next week, but still.

          McCain: Less jobs, more war.

          by Unstable Isotope on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:47:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You mean, CHIMPEACH!! (none / 1)

            We could do it in the lameduck session bewteen Nov. 3 and Jan. 19!

            Wars not make one great. - Yoda

            by Volvo Liberal on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:50:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Please consider the following... (4.00 / 3)

            1. Kerry must win

            2. Absolutely NO indictments should be brought against Bush or any of the Neocons until after inauguration day

            3. Because we do not want to give the shrub the opportunity to pardon anyone

            4. And, we do not want the shrub to resign before inauguration day because we do not want that mega-war criminal cheney to pardon shrub.

            Therefore, GOTV.
            Elect Kerry.
            Win the Senate for the Dems.
            Kerry is inaugurated.
            Senate is sworn in.
            And, multiple independent prosecutors are assigned the task of bringing shrub, cheney and all those neocon fucks to trial for crimes against humanity.
            •  Graciousness. . . (none / 1)

              . . .is overrated.  If Dems win the WH and the Senate I hope they don't roll over in the name of "civility".  These guys have to be exterminated from the premises.  Dems are always taking the high road to their own detriment.
              •  The 'high road' for all of us.... (4.00 / 3)

                ....is the one we put shrubco on...the one that leads directly to The Hague.

                I do not think saving our Democracy from the brink of disaster is going to leave any of us wishywashy, limp or otherwise impotent in the 'nice guy' fall back.

                No, I think we have all seen hell up close and personal and we are never, ever going to forget or forgive Bush, Cheney, Rummey, Condi, Wolfie, and the rest of the NeoCon filth.

                You can be sure I never will and will hammer this issue until my last breath.

                •  Exactly what I'm hoping for (none / 1)

                  I think that extraditing Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld to the Hague would do A LOT towards recovering America's standing in the world.  Kerry should then have America do what Bush never did for the 180 prisoners he executed while governor of Texas: provide them with the best counsel available for their defense.
            •  I think you can pardon pre-indictment (none / 1)

              I think that you can pardon for any past action even if charges haven't been brought.  The only person you can't pardon is yourself.  So Bush can pardon everyone he pleases (and he will) except Bush himself.  

              -Fred

              Democrats *do* have a plan for Social Security - it's called Social Security. -- Ed Schultz

              by FredFred on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 08:52:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Four Years (none / 0)

            I hope that the American people realize that another four years will mirror the Nixon years. This country will be torn apart again if Chimpy wins. If they win, people will talk. The truth will out.
          •  You know, he could still be impeached. . . (none / 0)

            Even after he's voted out of office Tuesday week, he'll still have 2+ months to keep effing everything up.  I say the earlier he leaves, the better.
      •  Dead soldiers, indeed. (none / 0)

        Check out this article from the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, entitled "RDX & IEDs: The Deadly Duet":
        Of all the weapons that the militants possess, IEDs, coupled with explosives like RDX, pose the greatest danger to human and material security due to the ease with which they can be made, planted and blasted.
        ...
        RDX has a high explosive potential, is light, and is also malleable which allows its transport without suspicion. Though RDX is a military explosive and cannot be procured commercially, the external support to various militant groups in Kashmir makes it easy for them to obtain it. Almost all the militant-related IED incidents in Kashmir have used RDX. The combination of RDX-IED in Kashmir increased during the second half of the 1990s. Reliance on RDX will continue and is certain to become a major strategy for the militants. In fact, militants groups in the North East seem to be shifting to RDX, instead of other explosives.

        Given the easy availability of explosives and, appreciating the external involvement in providing RDX to militant and criminal groups, and the simple process involved in making an IED, the RDX-IED combination will be the real problem in the coming years; more so than the AK-47s in the hands of the militants.

        There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. --Benjamin Disraeli, cited by Mark Twain

        by sheba on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 08:56:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I agree (none / 1)

      Most polls show Kerry has had a substantial lead on Bush on domestic issues from after the primary.

      It's Iraq that is first and foremost on everyone's minds and what most divides everyone. Iraq is nothing but bad news for Bush and Kerry needs to attack him constantly on his mismanagement of it. The very real costs of which are rising casualties with no end in sight.

    •  Surprise! (none / 1)

      Bush is incompetent and the war was a disaster.
      •  THis wont play well in states with military (none / 1)

        ...how would you feel if you government forgot to secure this.. and then decided not to tell anyone about it after they screwed up?

        Virginia is one of those states wih a military base or 2 isnt it?? Or am I thinking of NC

        Either way.. I think some of your boys might take a long hard look at who they are voting for after this story makes the rounds.

        •  Largest military base in the world (none / 0)

          is in Southeastern Virginia.  It's actually a conglomeration of bases, big ones like the Norfolk Naval Amphib base, and the Oceana Naval Air Station, to smaller ones like Langly Air Force Base and a really really old Fort Monroe.  Tons of big ships are based in Norfolk.

          -Fred

          Democrats *do* have a plan for Social Security - it's called Social Security. -- Ed Schultz

          by FredFred on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 08:53:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  they need to run an ad in areas like norfolk (none / 0)

            ship yards and the like- this will be devasting for bush- they dont even need to target the whole state- i grew up there- they places to go are norfolk, cheaspeake etc- where the military bases are- maybe a few local markets else where too- like i said this could be devasting there- and i got to say THIS PISSES ME OFF- i got a cousin in the military and this is unacceptable- period. these guys have got to go.
          •  Even MORE Military There (none / 0)

            Newport News has Fort Eustis, huge army base. Also there's the US Coast Guard training center in Yorktown. Naval Weapons Station in Yorktown. Newport News Shipbuilding, Norfolk Shipbuilding, and Camp Pendleton State Military Reservation.

            I grew up in Newport News, lots of military and even MORE military support civilians.

            I just hope the light comes on these guys minds in time for most of them to vote John Kerry.

        •  Bases here in NC (none / 0)

          Camp Lejeune--Marines.  Ft. Bragg--Army.  Sign on the lawn down the street from me:  "Support President Bush and Our Troops".  Sorry, can't do both.

          I have always resented that the artist should be relegated by the politician to a place with no voice in political or human affairs. -- Errol Flynn

          by Mlle Orignalmale on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 10:44:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  OCTOBER SURPRISE IT IS (none / 0)

      This and the Flu Shots.  Both Break for Kerry.  Both break my heart because lots of Americans are going to die as a result.

      760,000 pounds of high explosives missing...and just one pound of the stuff was used to bring down Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie.  

      This story has legs, everyone of us has a duty to keep this the main issue for the next week.

      Regarding flu shots - the National Vaccine Act was passed in 1986 basically eliminating liability for vaccine manufacturers.

      Keep the Faith, Vote, and Never Give Up!

  •  I am stunned. (none / 0)

    I can hardly "compute" this it is so outrageous, scary bad really.

    Just how immoral are these people??
    There is no answer, cause there is no word for this kind of betrayal of the troops.

    WAR CRIMES
    IMPEACHABLE

    The families of the dead soldiers will not give this one a pass.

    •  Stunned ain't the half of it . . . (4.00 / 3)

      But the Bush administration would not allow the agency back into the country to verify the status of the stockpile. In May 2004, Iraqi officials say in interviews, they warned L. Paul Bremer III, the American head of the occupation authority, that Al Qaqaa had probably been looted. It is unclear if that warning was passed anywhere. Efforts to reach Mr. Bremer by telephone were unsuccessful. But by that time, the Americans were preoccupied with the transfer of authority to Iraq, and the insurgency was gaining strength. "It's not an excuse," said one senior administration official. "But a lot of things went by the boards."

      Holy Cheese and Rice. A lot of things went by the boards.

      Speechless.

  •  Leading... (none / 0)

    Leading tomorrow's NYTimes, too......Big? I think so...
  •  Bombshell (4.00 / 3)

    In May, an internal I.A.E.A. memorandum warned that terrorists might be helping "themselves to the greatest explosives bonanza in history."
    •  man (none / 1)

      How many Americans are going to die because of the DOD coverup? Can Bush be fucking up this war even more?  Let them have their theocracy and pull out. Im sick of the corruption, the dead soldiers, the dead civillians, and this war of lies.

      No minor discount on oil or protecting Tel Aviv is worth this.

      Whatever. Both sides are going to spin this to their advantage, while 380 TONS of expolsives which are about 2x more powerful than dynamite are all over that country and making its way to just about anywhere.

      Time to string up Wolfowitz, Feith, Rummy, Bush, Cheney, Powell, etc.

      •  Now I understand (none / 0)

        It's no wonder BushCo have prevented US membership in the International Criminal Court at The Hague.  Bush in the dock - there's a nice image.

        "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

        by fishhead on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 09:02:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Please... (2.50 / 2)

        A few points.
        First, as more people die and as more facts come out, I am afraid that we will find that Bush & Co. are already guilty of far worse that we will ever want to know.
        Second, the problems with the "discount on oil" are actually good for the U.S. The world is running out of oil, and high prices now just give us more time to retool than business as usual would have done. We need to get off of oil ASAP and let China pay the high prices as it develops. Kerry understands this.
        Third, NOTHING about this war protects Tel Aviv. The whole Iraq operation begins and ends with a fundamental misunderstanding of the Middle East. Anyone that thinks that policies that make millions of Arabs hate us is going to somehow help Israel is as out of touch with objective reality as the administration is.
        •  As out of touch with objective reality as GW (none / 1)

          Yep.

          Perle, Wolfowitz were described exactly like that.

          The Permanent Republican Majority lasted about as long as The Thousand Year Reich

          by lawnorder on Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 12:53:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Dont lie to yourself (none / 1)

          I quote PNAC, you know the crown jewel of the Neocon movemovent:
          In particular, we want to commend you for your strong stance in support of the Israeli government as it engages in the present campaign to fight terrorism. As a liberal democracy under repeated attack by murderers who target civilians, Israel now needs and deserves steadfast support. This support, moreover, is essential to Israel's continued survival as a free and democratic nation, for only the United States has the power and influence to provide meaningful assistance to our besieged ally. And with the memory of the terrorist attack of September 11 still seared in our minds and hearts, we Americans ought to be especially eager to show our solidarity in word and deed with a fellow victim of terrorist violence.

          No one should doubt that the United States and Israel share a common enemy. We are both targets of what you have correctly called an "Axis of Evil." Israel is targeted in part because it is our friend, and in part because it is an island of liberal, democratic principles -- American principles -- in a sea of tyranny, intolerance, and hatred. As Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld has pointed out, Iran, Iraq, and Syria are all engaged in "inspiring and financing a culture of political murder and suicide bombing" against Israel, just as they have aided campaigns of terrorism against the United States over the past two decades. You have declared war on international terrorism, Mr. President. Israel is fighting the same war.

          The major Jewish lobbies supported the war in Iraq.  

          Hey look another PNAC letter about I/P.

          Whoops!

          Im sick of the right and left co-opting this war. Its not about WMD or freedom.  The left (at least some of it) cheerleader for this war because it would protect israel. And both parties, including you, are naive enough to think that illegal aggression would equal lower oil prices. Amazing. Dont they teach seconday and hidden costs in school anymore? If you want war in the mideast and PNAC like policies please vote Bush as Kerry wants CAFE standards up by 50% in a decade and will take us off foreign oil.  Bush is your man, Kerry isnt. Also, Kerry has a conscience and might not be so nice in the UN and may not give 15 million dollars a day to Israel to they can continue their apartheid wall and killings not to mention their massive nuclear program.  

          I know youre not supposed to talk about Israel, Zionist exremism, how fundamentalism fuels settlements, Israel's secret WMD program, etc in America. But I've never been big on self-censorship. Hopefully the fall of Bush means a Palestianian state and peace in the mideast, regardless of your greedy need to have 10 cents off the price of gas in 50 years.

          Keep that head in the sand! Its been working so far. We've lost all three branches of government!

          •  Were you sober... (none / 0)

            ...when you read my post? How the HELL do you extrapolate support for the war to lower oil prices from "we need get off oil ASAP"?
            As to Israel, the insane blatherings of the PNAC have nothing to do with the fact that the war in Iraq has nothing to make Israel more secure. My whole point was that the neocon insanity makes the situation there far worse, not better. But your post clearly indicates that, to you, the neocon support of Israel removes the country's right to exist. Guilt by association. Very nice.
            You clearly have no comprehension of what it is to live under the constant threat of terror for your entire life. Go and live there for a few years and see then if you are so eager to judge.
            Oh, and due to your grievous lack of attention and poor comprehension of the English language,  you have misplaced a troll rating, which I hereby return to you.
      •  i'm not sure Tel Aviv is that protected (none / 0)

        with that stuff out there. oh silly me, i forgot, bushco is expectantly LOOKING FORWARD TO the apocalypse
  •  TV ad (4.00 / 4)

    Kerry in front of 5 train box cars.

    Then has the amount of explosive used in Oklahoma City in front.

    Emphasizes that these are explosives, not WMDs, and were sealed and secure.

    The script will write itself.

  •  Did Kos mean to say WaPo or NYT? (none / 0)

    I don't see anything on WaPo yet, and all the hype (Drudge, etc.) was re the NYT story that is now up (and which doesn't play the cover-up angle nearly as hard as I expected based on Josh Marshall's stories today).
  •  Shorter Freepers: (none / 0)

    See?  This proves Saddam was bad!

    I can hear Rush now....

    Everyone has a plan 'til they get punched in the mouth. -Mike Tyson

    by jmgotham on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:42:03 PM PDT

  •  I agree this is big because (4.00 / 2)

    It's not some scandal based on fluff.  This stuff really matters.  We are suffering the results of this failure to safeguard the explosives as we speak in Iraq where our troops and Iraqis are being bombed with it!!

    All serious journalists owe it to the American public to cover this story extensively so we can be sure it never happens again and that we take steps to correct the situation (i.e. kick Bush out of office)

  •  Game, Set and Match... (none / 1)

    ...Kerry.  This is the election, ladies and gents.

    "There is nothing false about hope." -- Barack Obama

    by DC Pol Sci on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 07:43:17 PM PDT

      •  It truly is Kerry's to lose (4.00 / 2)

        No way Kerry should lose this election now with the news being so bad from Iraq, with the economy stagnant, high oil prices, Bush continuing to lie and not admitting mistakes, etc, etc.

        This is a checkmate situation folks.

        •  I want to believe but I am scared to believe (none / 0)

          Will the corporate media cave? Or will they be so personally outraged that they will actually run and run and run with this?

          The Bushies have so much to lose, way more than an election ego bruise. What won't they do now?

          •  We can't be scared (4.00 / 2)

            It's time for our party to face the beast with courage and be willing to duke it out to the last minute on election day and beyond.  We will not be denied.
          •  On CNN (none / 0)

            I just saw the missing 380 TONS Explosive story on CNN.... HMMM.. how will they spin it?

            "Politics isn't an academic exercise. The results matter. Just ask all those dead Iraqis and US soldiers." ~ Kos

            by khloemi on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 09:16:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You just watched it. How DID they spin it????? (none / 0)

              *How could 59,054,087 people be so DUMB?*

              by clueless on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 10:00:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  CN-Spin (none / 1)

                Last night they only had a small mention, I think. This morning they led American Morning with a report that did a good job explaining how deadly this stuff is, but glossed over the administration's incompetence in not guarding it, and which completely ignored the cover-up.

                Let Eason Jordan, CNN managing editor, know that's not good enough. eason.jordan@turner.com.

                Also, send him the article that Talking Points Memo quoted, because it highlights those angles much better than the NYT article.

        •  Too much focus on the horse race (none / 0)


            Stories like this should be what is repeated and Bush should be questioned about it.

           But ABC ran parts of a really soft interview Charlie Gibson did with Bush that will be on Good Morning America Monday.  Most of what they showed was things like are you worried?  Will it come down to OH, FL, and PA?  

           Stuff that won' matter in just over a week and isn't useful to undecided voters.

            David Letterman did a tougher interview with Bush in 2000.

  •  The nail in the coffin ... (none / 1)

    This probably seals the election for us, just as Abu Ghraib killed the $100 million or so negative advertising Rove mounted in late March and early April.  The sheer incompetence of the Bush administration defies imagination.  To say this takes the cake is an understatement.  Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld should burn in hell for this, as for many other things.  Hundreds of our dead young people out there because of their tactical (let's not begin to talk of strategic) incompetence.  If this doesn't push respectable Republicans over to us for this one election, nothing will.
    •  Rumsfeld should have been fired (3.25 / 4)

      long ago, long ago.

      If Bush seriously cared about our country he would have asked for his resignation before this election at the very least to give us a glimmer of an indication that he acknowledges mistakes.

      He talked in a debate about making mistakes in some of his appointments, right?? What the fu-k would he call his choice of Rumsfeld???

      •  Well (none / 0)

        That only applies to his subjects who don't lick his boots.
      •  AS an AMERICAN (4.00 / 2)

        I am concerned - so let me get this straight - we knew ammo dumps were raided and we covered it up? This is so beyond this election - this is about our troops, the security of the Iraqis, the possibility of a islamist Jihad against America.

        Don't you remember when we were respected? Honestly - it's freaking scary.

        That they would cover this up for Political purposes is purplexing beyond belief.

        •  what infuriates me is (4.00 / 2)

          That when stories like this break, George W. Bush doesn't even hold a press conference or put out a statement to apologize or re-assert that he will fix the problem or anything.  He just keeps acting like nothing's wrong.

          argh

        •  We've always known (none / 0)

          ammo dumps and weapons caches were looted since day one. There was even discussion about it in the Congress. The only reason Al Qaqaa stands out now is because it was under international "seal" (monitoring) because of its potential use in making nuclear bombs. But I don't know that we can push the angle that the Rs hid the fact that weapons and ammo stores were looted, since it was pretty much common knowledge while it was happening. The chickens incompetence) have just come home to roost (in the nick of time).

          "There's no housing bubble..." - Fed Chief Ben Bernanke, 10/27/2005

          by chuco35 on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 09:30:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But it's 350 T-O-N-S (none / 1)

            That quantity is just shocking to me.
            •  To put this quantity in perspective...... (none / 0)

              the article says 350 tons, which @ 2,000 pounds/ton is = to 700,000 pounds. Now flight 103 (Lockerbie, Scotland) was blown up with 1 pound.

              This means we could have up to 700,000 Lockerbies!!!!!

              Are there even that many commercial jet airplanes in the whole goddam world?

              This is enough explosives to make 9/11 look like a 4th of July firecracker.

              *How could 59,054,087 people be so DUMB?*

              by clueless on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 10:07:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  or >700,000 IEDs (none / 0)

                that's enough to use 3 on each of the coalition soldiers.
                And a 1lb IED is substantial.. at 1.5x the strength per lb. of TNT, they could probably squeeze a million out of the haul. This ia W.s version of a million points of light.
        •  the weapons teams were understaffed (none / 1)

          From the reporting at the time, the teams in the 3rd ID sent to find the supposed chemical and biological weapons caches were moved quickly from site to site, testing anything suspicious then heading to the next facility.

          Some of the stuff they tested was 'just' high explosive. But because it wasn't the magical WMD, it didn't matter. (Just as the crap at the nuclear facility was abandoned too.)

      •  Kerry Must Drive this ball WAY out of the park (4.00 / 3)

        We have got to make this the final story thread of this election.  

        Kerry should give the Big Speech. He should stand shoulder to shoulder with a number of his military supporters: McPeak, Hoar, Shalikshavili (sp.), Cleland, and say that Bush has really fallen asleep at the switch.  

        "My fellow Americans, it is with great sadness that I stand before you to speak on the news that almost 400 tons of Saddam Hussein's high explosives in Iraq have gone missing on George W. Bush's watch, and that President Bush and his administration have literally No Idea where these dangerous weapons are or in whose possession they currently reside. This President has failed to protect our troops, who are being attacked every single day by what our military calls improvised explosive devices, or IEDs. These devices are not industrially manufactured, but rather they are guerrilla-style bombs packed with explosive material.  Today we learned that almost 400 tons of explosives were stolen--brazenly stolen from under our noses--from a well-known site that the UN Inspectors warned us about. Unfortunately, this president did not heed those warnings.  Sadly, this President failed to take steps to secure these weapons. George Bush let WOLVES sneak in and steal the weapons he should have been guarding.

        Our servicemen and women are paying the price of the President's failure.  Clearly, in this time of danger, it is time for a new President who will protect America and our troops.

        And so we will have a new President. But under our constitution, George W. Bush will remain our President until January 20th of next year.  And that is too long a time for our troops to wait for real protection.  That is why this morning I have gathered with some of our most respected military leaders to call for Secretary Rumsfeld and the misguided architects of his failed policies to step aside. At this point we need the strongest leaders possible to assume command of our military, and there a number of fine men who fit the bill. My friend John McCain is one of them.  There are others. I would be glad to meet with the President privately and discuss who could fill this role for the safety of our troops. This is beyond politics and I am not willing to consider political party in recommending such an appointment.  I call on the President to take bold action NOW to make this change, and he will have my full support. The safety of our troops must be our guiding goal at this time of uncertainty..."

        "Calmer than you are."

        by Sheffield on Sun Oct 24, 2004 at 09:27:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I trust his killer instinct (4.00 / 2)

          I really think Kerry has a good sense of when to pounce and go in for the kill.  That's why he has the reputation of being a good closer.  This will be a beautiful week to watch him in action.
        •  h (none / 0)

          I hope this doesn't become political - even though it will - this is serious shit - like 60 countries harbor Al qaida, they have bombs for eternity - it could have cause the madrid bombings, it could have spurned the palestinian restinance, it could cause bombings at our own embassies.

          This is too much

          •  It's like they raided (none / 0)

            the Fort Knox of ammunition dumps

            It all comes back to bad intelligence and poor/non-existant planning.

            Looks like Rumsfeld just sa