Daily Kos

Testosterone is Deadly

by karenc13

Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:19:23 PM PDT

Can You Use 'Empire' and 'Women'in a Single Sentence? (Neither Can I)

[This is from SwamiUptown, whose blog is on Beliefnet.com]

Woke up this morning to see that The New York Post had, once again, made me proud to be an American--on the front page was a helmeted, dirty-faced soldier, butt dangling from his lips, under the headline SMOKIN' and over the caption MARLBORO MEN KICK BUTT IN FALLUJAH.

There, right there, is our big problem.

Not the guy himself--he's a soldier on the front lines, thus exempt from everything but our prayers for his safe return.

The big problem is with the men who sent him to Iraq and the men who praise them for sending him. And on the other side, men who hold power because they have their boots firmly on the throat of their women.

Testosterone. It's deadlier than the A-bomb. More insidious than pollution. Meaner than Dick Cheney.

I've been musing about a new direction for this blog, and I've decided maybe it's time to turn the conversation to a topic more important than whether Blue Staters need to kiss Red State ass.

That topic, it seems to me, is men. Specifically, American men. Look at every issue that allegedly determined this election. Iraq. Abortion. Sexuality. Even "leadership" (as exemplified by the Action Hero in the flight suit). Track them back, and when you get to The Source, you're looking into the face of some obnoxious jerk who gets off on having power over anyone more finally calibrated than he is--starting with women.

In the workplace, it's the brilliant nerd who can do algorithms in his sleep who rises to the top--the day of the hunter-gatherer in the Ford-tough truck is over. Long over. The proof's all around: downsizing, outsourcing, automation. The movie cliche--the classic American hero--is mired in the quicksand of history, and sinking fast.

But he doesn't go down easily, does he? Howls like a kid with a skinned knee. Flails in all directions, knocking down everyone who might be offering him a life-saving hand. And, all the while, refuses to ask directions.

Oh, what can you do with a beast like that? For starters, avoid him--and, man, I do. Whenever possible, I work with women. Are they really superior? I like to think so. (They may not be--for all we know, they're just as violent and aggressive as men have been--but why don't we find some way for them to wield all the power until we have some evidence? Consider it a nation-wide science project.)

Am I the only one who sees our national landscape as some sort of addled junior high school, with cool guys and jocks thrusting out their chins for the benefit of beauty queens they'll dump, two decades later, for fresher flesh? Do you also suspect that adult life is mostly a struggle for better wheels and the window table at the malt shop? And do you also consider the State Championship as just the warm-up for business and politics and war?

Or am I just blinded by that butch hero on the newspaper cover? Is it just that he's so much more of a man than I can ever be?

Oh. I do see one bright spot on the male-female front. Viagra. Cialis. And some other cute-sounding pill. The popularity of these drugs suggests that millions of men recognize that something is turning their swords into plowshares--and they've taken steps to deal with it. Good. A guy who's staring at a four-hour erection is more likely to use that than he is to pick up a club, or a gun, or even a phone.

"Make love, not war." It worked once. Might again.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/145/story_14546_1.html

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Permalink | 57 comments

  •  Gay men have testosterone too (none / 0)

    Does that make them evil as well?

    Just thought I'd ask.

    BTW, I'm a girl and I'm gonna go clean my guns and go to the shooting range.

    Guess I have lots of testosterone too, honey.  Not.


    ... and the little plastic castle
    is a surprise every time...

    by Plutonium Page on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:25:15 PM PDT

  •   That additude is why we lose. (none / 1)

      A little but of Testosterone is exactly what this party needs. You don't win by not fighting, and trust me, I have rolled over a few people in my time. Didn't matter if I was right or wrong, I got my way. And I have no planes on backing down now. I just with my party would have spines as well.

     The lack of Testosterone is what made us choose a wishy-washy lozer to head the ticket. And even if you don't think Kerry was wishy-washy, you can't argue that his handerler and representatives where. And a continued lack of Testosterone will continue the downward spiral of the Democratic party.

    by JoshInWa on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:25:43 PM PDT

    •  Well. (none / 0)

      It's true that we must accept the rules of the game if we want progress, and that means taking no shit from the evildoers on the other side.  So I agree.

      But I disagree.  We also need to take a step back and challenge those rules.  Speaking as a straight, muscular guy: karenc13 is absolutely right.  Men as a whole, particularly men steeped in American culture, do not think or feel enough.  They value action over all else, respect violence, and disdain compassion or thoughtfulness.

      This is obviously a sweeping generalization, but sadly it holds far too much water.  And some of this behavior is biological.  Yet that doesn't mean it can't be modified over time, or that society as a whole can discourage the hate and violence men do.  It's not a project we can take on and fix in a short time, but it does us well to be aware of it.

      Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

      by ubikkibu on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:52:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bush is always saying (none / 0)

        I acted

        We will act

        Because we acted

        by karenc13 on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:03:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I somewhat agree. (none / 1)

         But I think the main problem is the people I notice act like " tough " guys politically, are generally pathetic in the rest of their lives. Basicly a version of the story about who not to mess with in a bar. The quiet guy in the corner or the mouthy guy in your face. Generally the guy in the corner is bad-ass and doesn't say anything cus he dont wanna have to mess someones face up again, where the mouthy guy is a pushover and is trying to hide his insecruity with though talk.

         Personally I belive democratic party is more like the quiet guy. But we need to stand up for what we belive. And not based on issues, but on our belife system.

        by JoshInWa on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:21:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  "That additude.... (none / 1)

      and a little but of testosterone..."

      Just do a little editing before you post, and I won't call you a testosterone head.

      by jane 2000 on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:31:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  you know? (none / 0)

    this may be off topic, but I really am hungry for some kind of feminist conversation on DKos.  just because.  i mean, specifically, unapologetically feminist, and in a place where we can all find it.
    thanks for your diary

    by TravnTexas on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:26:31 PM PDT

    •  Confession, this is my husband's blog (none / 1)

      he always says he is a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

      by karenc13 on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:34:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  i understand the need (none / 1)

      probably the most successful diary i had was one that was designed to prompt a discussion about using the word feminism itself.  for once the women dominated the conversation.  it made my heart warm.

      perhaps as the election fades we will find ways to engage topics tangential to politics.  this site is great for hashing out the progressive perspective. more female centered dialogue is important, especially since women naturally gravitate to the Dems and we need to do a better job explaining our values.

      by juls on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:14:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Except Bush won the married women vote n/t (none / 0)

    Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

    by JollyBuddah on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:27:27 PM PDT

  •  Amen (none / 0)

    Random related thought: I was walking around the other night in a "bad area" and my mind wandered.....I wondered how much more relaxed I would feel if there were no men at all in the city that night? Safer, much.

    There is a real Frat Boy mentality within this administration.; Abu Ghraib was just hazing on a grand scale. WWF, Nascar, Jackass, Power Rangers, contact team sports...zoom zoom bang bang...lack of nuance....I am sick of it[/rant].

    by guidess on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:27:41 PM PDT

    •  Amen to your amen (none / 0)

      I once wanted to invent an anti testosterone spray so that when i was around really aggressive people i could spray it in the air as if it were air freshener.  yes, women have testosterone.  no they don't have the power to wage war.  would they if they did?  who knows, but I for one would be willing to give it a whirl and vote women across the ticket.

      by TravnTexas on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:36:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maggie Had the Power - And She Used It (none / 0)

        yes, women have testosterone.  no they don't have the power to wage war.

        See Margaret Thatcher, Britain v. Argentina in the Falkland Islands War, 1982.

        No more Republican rule.

        by HarveyMilk on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:45:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  you are so right (none / 0)

          i was thinking locally and not globally

          by TravnTexas on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:48:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, and (none / 0)

            all those things I mentioned (Nascar, football, etc) have many, many females fans. And of course there are women who lack a conscience. Women sometimes love power enough to sign something that will hurt or even kill thousands innocent people. But it seems that hand-to-hand style of cruelty is still much rarer.

            by guidess on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:54:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Locally (none / 0)

            Female Senate Votes Regarding the Iraq War Resolution

            For:

            Blanche Lincoln (D): Yes
            Dianne Feinstein (D): Yes
            Mary Landrieu (D): Yes
            Susan Collins (R): Yes
            Olympia Snowe (R): Yes
            Jean Carnahan (D): Yes
            Hillary Clinton (D): Yes
            Kay Bailey Hutchison (R): Yes
            Maria Cantwell (D): Yes

            Against:

            Barbara Boxer (D): No
            Barbara Mikulski (D): No
            Debbie Stabenow (D): No
            Patty Murray (D): No  

            No more Republican rule.

            by HarveyMilk on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:24:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Isn't this the same vote that Kerry said yes on? (none / 0)

              or am I mistaken?
              wasn't this the give GWB a chance to go once more to the UN and he didn't?
              and you know, 13 votes of women does not a war make.  and 13 women in the senate does not a majority make.
              I realize that a handful of women have led their countries into war.  what about the rest of the wars.

              by TravnTexas on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:56:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The War Was/Is Wrong (none / 0)

                And it was wrong to vote for the IWR, no matter what you have for genitals.  It's why I didn't support Kerry in the primaries. It's why it took me a long time to decide to support him after he won the nomination.  

                But, back to the topic.  While there is not a majority of women in the Senate, of the 13 women that are there, 9 of them voted in favor of the IWR.

                No more Republican rule.

                by HarveyMilk on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 05:10:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  i agree with you (none / 0)

                  the war was wrong, illegal, wrong
                  when Bush started talking about the war I was yelling at the television.

                  I can't begin to understand a senator's vote.  I'm not there, I don't have that responsibilty.

                  I realize that some of my response here is just from a hunger to talk about feminism, about its place in the democratic party, and indeed if it has a place.

                  I don't know if women would do better then men.  I don't know that.  when women wield more than 50% of power in all branches of our government, then maybe we'll know.  

                  and then again, maybe not, because in order to have power you have to buy into the power structure.  you have to buy into what makes and keeps power.  in this day, it seems to me that keeping power corrupts those in power and approaching it.  women are just as vulnerable as men to that coruption.
                  dadgumit i wish i could spell  :-)

                  by TravnTexas on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 05:32:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree with you, too (none / 0)

                    To an extent.  It is not an automatic thing that because you are a woman, you cannot possibly be a war-mongering idiot.  

                    Here is the money shot (if you'll pardon the expression) of the whole thread, IMO:

                    because in order to have power you have to buy into the power structure.

                    That's very much true.  And if we ever get to the place of true equality, i.e, a government that is 52% female, maybe that power structure will be kinder and gentler, and our female leaders won't be tempted to out-butch the men.

                    No more Republican rule.

                    by HarveyMilk on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 05:52:15 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  Testosterone is also... (none / 0)

    ...the source of strength, the sex instinct, and by implication, the beginning of life.

    So let's not knock it!

    Finding God in a Dog

    by maxomai on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:33:25 PM PDT

  •  Sexist assumption (none / 0)

    that testosterone is root cause of destruction.  

    Ever since my boys were able to understand my words I've told them that we men have a great capacity to either destroy or create and their job was to choose from the two.  I try to show them the benefits of creation, talk with them about what motivates their need for destruction, and channeling that energy for the betterment of themselves and their community.

    We (men and women) all have both testosterone and estrogen in us, by the way.  

    ;]

    by lapin on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:39:30 PM PDT

    •  The thing is (none / 0)

      mind and spirit can transcend glandular chemistry and attain balance, just as you are describing with what and how you teach your boys. But without a big dose of larnin' and perspective, many an evolved chimp expresses only their baser nature.

      What's even worse is when they are so cramped in personality that they overcompensate for not having a whit of true inner strength by buying big toys and adopting belligerence as a sort of mask against their own sense of impotence. Real men, sure in their identities and self worth, don't act like that. They don't need to.

      A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular. -Adlai Stevenson.

      by barb in albq on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:53:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As a father (none / 1)

      I consider it my highest duty to show my son how men go wrong.  To help him understand why we have bullies, why fathers hit their kids, why young men are angry and reckless, and why Bush likes to kill.

      When I lose my temper, which of course I do sometimes, I apologize.  And I let him know I understand there was a better way to get my point across, and I'll do my best to take that path next time.

      But I don't make it a guilt trip.  Anger, male anger in particular, is natural and even healthy sometimes.  It doesn't pay to beat yourself up about it afterward.  But recognizing that overall this is a problem mostly unique to males allows us to see more clearly what we're doing, and to prefer a peaceful way.

      It's not the chemical per se, it is a nearly universal male attitude that is amplified by our braindead culture, as karenc13 points out.  It is not sexist or chauvinist to point this out.  It's human nature, but it's also not immutable, and a society that elevates peace and community over attitude and violence would be better for all of us.

      Angie and Bill: Colorado's bright future!

      by ubikkibu on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:00:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "a guy who's staring at (none / 0)

    a four hour erection.."

    indecisive?

    meditative?

    narcisisstic?

    thnks for the strange mental image!

    Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

    by Miss Devore on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:45:02 PM PDT

  •  I have to agree with you though (none / 0)

    I am a guy.

    I think most men are safe once they are in their late twenties or so but the young 'uns are fueled for hyper-aggression.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" - Hunter S. Thompson (RIP)

    by redfish on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:54:34 PM PDT

  •  As a white American man (none / 0)

    Let me apologize for the white men who helped elect Bush to office. I don't what these idiots are thinking. Bush is not tough, he's a wimp and a "coward" as even Eminem noted. These white guys who think Bush is John Wayne are kidding themselves.

    But...in defense of men let me say one thing.  John Kerry did BETTER amongst men than Al Gore did.  Kerry lost because WOMEN were more likely to vote for Bush this time. Call them "security moms" if you wish, I call them delusional chicks who don't know the facts.

    Polls showed that while 30% of men believed the hokum about Saddam working with Al Qaeda and possessing WMDs, more than 50% of women believe this trash. It's like they are 1-2 years behind on the times as far as news. My boss (a woman) is one of these idiots who thinks Saddam was a real threat and won't listen to the facts. If women were as smart in this election as they usually are, we'd be talking about President-elect Kerry right now.

    Old Man McCain.com - the best McCain attack blog on the web!

    by existenz on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:55:19 PM PDT

    •  Alot of women (none / 0)

      have been trained carefully to need a big daddy figure. Isn't that what Bush has been acting out, the stereotype he's been playing out? Only I can save you cuz I'm strong and don't need to think like girly men do, I just act! Smoke 'em out! Resolute!

      I think it's kind of ironic that in a time when gender is meaning less and less, sperm counts are going down, there are too many people already on the planet and life has become, for many, a trip between screens and rides in 4WD vehicles that never see a dirt road, these stereotypical he-man and she-woman traits are pushed so hard, and that so many are still vulnerable to them.

      Reminds me of how, when I first moved out West, there were mostly 2-wheel drive pickups and there really were alot of nasty ass dirt roads. The aged cowboys were gentlemen and the cowgals tough but warm. Now we're all full up with Dodge Ram pseudo models, all aggressive and obnoxious and rude. Funny how that happens.

      A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular. -Adlai Stevenson.

      by barb in albq on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:04:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Alot of women (none / 0)

      have been trained carefully to need a big daddy figure. Isn't that what Bush has been acting out, the stereotype he's been playing out? Only I can save you cuz I'm strong and don't need to think like girly men do, I just act! Smoke 'em out! Resolute!

      I think it's kind of ironic that in a time when gender is meaning less and less, sperm counts are going down, there are too many people already on the planet and life has become, for many, a trip between screens and rides in 4WD vehicles that never see a dirt road, these stereotypical he-man and she-woman traits are pushed so hard, and that so many are still vulnerable to them.

      Reminds me of how, when I first moved out West, there were mostly 2-wheel drive pickups and there really were alot of nasty ass dirt roads. The aged cowboys were gentlemen and the cowgals tough but warm. Now we're all full up with Dodge Ram pseudo models, all aggressive and obnoxious and rude. Funny how that happens.

      A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular. -Adlai Stevenson.

      by barb in albq on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:06:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Next time, why don't you... (none / 0)

    ...just replace "men" in your posts such as this with another word - say, NEGROES. See how far the logic takes you.

    Methinks it puts you right in the same slimepit as all other bigots, including sexist males.

    It's well past time that we stop classifying (and dismissing) people on the basis of gender, just as it's time we stop doing it on the basis of race, sexual orientation, etc. etc.

    BTW: Speaking of Women and Empire and War and all: How's about Catherine The Great? Queen Elizabeth? Queen Victoria? Indira Gandhi? The problem isn't gender, it's POWER.

    It's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. - G. Carlin

    by RabidNation on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 03:58:41 PM PDT

  •  Oh, sure... (none / 0)

    Remember Lyndie England?  Many of the American soldiers fighting this war are women.  Women can be just as fierce as men can: Cleopatra had her brother murdered and had a child with Caesar, in an attempt to take over Rome, and when that didn't work, seduced Mark Antony and tried to take the world by force.  Joan of Arc led the French military to victory, fighting harder than any man.  Elizabeth I ordered the British into war with Spain, and crushed the Armada.  More recently, Golda Mier's actions against the Arabs and Indira Gandhi's actions against the Pakistanis ("liberating" Bangladesh), as well as Margaret Thatcher's actions in the Falkland Islands lay to rest the assumption that women will be any less fierce than men.  In fact, a female leader of Indonesia has presided over the genocidal butchery in Aceh!  

    Looking here, my Senator, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, is as tough and pro-war as any other woman.  Hillary Rodham Clinton was one of the biggest high profile war supporters in our party!  

    Testosterone is merely a horomone.  Many women have just as high levels as men do.  In fact, it is necessary for politics, that killer instinct and competitive drive to get ahead.  The women who do get ahead in politics have all those features, and good for them (examples include, Michigan's Jennifer Granholm, Texas' Republican Comptroller and possible gubernatorial candidate Carol Strayhorn, Senator Boxer of California).  But toughness knows no gender boundries, and the notion that women would be any better than men is fallacious at best and mysogynist at worst (buying into the woman as cookie-cutting feel-good mom stereotype, are we?).

    by teenagedallasdeaniac on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:14:38 PM PDT

  •  Testosterone... (none / 0)

    is the most powerful substance in the world and, because of that, it is also the most dangerous.

    "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by jayatRI on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:21:33 PM PDT

  •  fighting biology (none / 0)

    We like to think our species has become civilized in the last few millenia, but at the genetic level we're the same as when we lived in caves.  Humans are unique in that we have the power of critical thinking and can choose our destiny independent of biology.  Still, there are forces within us, of which we are usually unaware, which remain from our ancestors.

    It is probably an instinctive reaction to choose as a leader the guy who can take down a water buffalo with his bare hands.  Men grunt with appreciation at his power; women swoon over his ability as a provider.  Bush himself is a weak and cowardly man, but he is a symbol of strength because he has other people kick a** in his name.

    I think we should resist the urge to think logically that testosterone is the problem, even if that is true.  Like it or not, testosterone is something people look for in a leader.  The Democratic Party needs presidential candidates who can compete on that level, regardless of gender.

    You have the power to change America. Yes. We. Can.

    by CA Pol Junkie on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:24:22 PM PDT

    •  empowerment (none / 0)

      I might add that the psychology of empowerment is powerful.  Bush makes alot of Americans feel empowered by having our country kick around smaller weaker countries.  Being a bully isn't the only way to empower people, though.  The Dean campaign was very open about the psychology behind it's "You have the power!  YOU have the power!" mantra - as a way to turn empowerment into a positive force.

      You have the power to change America. Yes. We. Can.

      by CA Pol Junkie on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:29:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obviously (none / 0)

    you've never seen women in action. They don't deal in outward aggression, no, its much subtler than that, but believe me, the girls I know can run circles around my guy friends when it comes to sheer nastiness.

    If women ran the world, true, there would be not as much violence. But it would be just as nasty.

    by Rhett on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 04:25:47 PM PDT

  •  Uh, I think y'all are missing (none / 0)

    the excellent point being made here.

    Gender is not the issue.  The issue is that this culture worships war, power, toughguy-ness.  IMO, that is why Bush won, far out-shadowing any other issue.

    Think Arnold and his disdain for girlie-men.

    Think 'Bring 'em on!'

    Bush was telling his biographer in 1999 that he wanted to have a war, in order to trade on the blind public support it would win him.  Remember his approval numbers just after Baghdad fell?

    War is the ultimate opium of the masses.

    by sharman on Fri Nov 12, 2004 at 10:04:41 PM PDT

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