Florida Recount 2004 yes/no?

Glenda Hood has certified the Florida results today(11/14)

According to Florida Election Law we have 10 days for one of our losing candidates to sue for a recount.

(2) Such contestant shall file a complaint, together with the fees prescribed in chapter 28, with the clerk of the circuit court within 10 days after midnight of the date the last county canvassing board empowered to canvass the returns certifies the results of the election being contested.

The Cobb/Badnarik campaigns have expressed a willingness to demand a recount in FL if they recieve the funds. The question facing us NOW is do we want to buy it. I think Kerry has made it clear we have to buy our own recounts.

FL recount impact my opinion

1. Flip FL? Unlikely our vote deficit in FL makes OH look like a dead tie.

2. Find fraud? Maybe the Bush campaign definately has motive, opportunity, and a cover story. Motive and opportunity speak for themselves. Dixiecrats could provide a cover story for padding totals to steal FL outright or pad its total enough to discourage recounts. Data analysis suggests a fraud check in FL might be suffiecient if focused only on the Optiscan counties(assuming FL recount law allows targetted recounts). Is it possible a discovery of fraud here could flip FL to Kerry? Thanks to paper ballots the potential is real. However if your only objective is to flip the election I would suggest FL is a very bad place to spend money.

3. Verify election results? Yes The same data analysis that called into question the dixiecrat counties also indicated the no trail counties weren't tampered with. A recount in FL either over all or of just the Optiscan counties should verify FL results.

Conclusion: I do not feel FL is a good investment if looked at only as a potential to flip the election. However many questions have been raised about the results in FL in particular Optiscan counties. For those interested in verifying our elections a recount would be a good investment.

However unlike the political capital Bush is burning we are very limited and can't spend into the red. If this election has stretched us thin enough FL might be out of reach, regardless of the answers it may hold. If the support is there I am willing to plunk down money to get answers in FL. Either way Glenda Hood is trying to shut us out. If we want in we need to move fast.

Note: Thanks to Cedwyn and NonEmptySubset for posts alerting me to the situation and containing the links I stole.

•  This could be

  ...Bush's Watergate even if it doesn't change the outcome.

  by eyeswideopen on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 10:43:45 PM PDT

•  Pick a few counties

  Unless florida's changed it's recount laws since 2000.

  I'm actually inclined towards the "Dixiecrat' theory on the panhandle Counties, to a point. Don't Dems control the courthouse offices in most of them? I could see hardcore Conservos keeping their registration Dem to vote in primaries for such offices as Sheriff.

  by ben masel on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 10:59:33 PM PDT

  •  statewide recount

    no games.

    winner take all.

    put up the liks of orgs moving for that & i am in.

    i gave to bh/bbv.  will give again.

    i believe the vote was stolen.

    i know that is unacceptable.

    by x on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 01:52:07 AM PDT

•  Still time?

  For some reason I thought the deadline to ask for a recount in FL was last Sunday (the 7th). If it's true that there's 10 more days, I hope somebody (Ralph?) files for one. I had heard that Bev Harris was doing something there, but I never know how much to believe about what her crew says it's up to.

  I doubt that it would change the outcome, but I would like to see everything there gone over with a fine-toothed comb, just so everybody can know once and for all what actually happened there on 11/2. (Of course we probably never will find out what happened in the e-voting counties, but that's another story.)

  by taliesin on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 11:07:36 PM PDT

•  i canvassed in FL

  IMO dixiecrat theory is utter nonesense.
  recount!  even if kerry doesn't win FL [though i think he did] recount will affect bush's so called popular vote. before we blather on and on about why bush won we need to know if he did!

  by Errol on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 11:07:38 PM PDT

•  One more motivation for recount

  Though perhaps you said this in a way I didn't process.
  

  Detecting & getting on the record any other forms of fraud that count be detected from an audit+recount. While our side was protecting voters from the 2000 catalog of cheating, they were using different techniques plus perhaps techniques used last time but not detected.

  
  Getting these exposed reduces the number of tools in their toolkit, forcing them to invent new ones for next time. And perhaps if some get caught this time and perhaps if the consequences are serious enough, it might be a deterrent, perhaps, maybe (hey, they're Republicans, I'm not that hopeful that they can turn from a lifetime of crimes against our country, but maybe).

  by Big Jack Stark on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 11:09:05 PM PDT

  •  agree

    agree
    "Detecting & getting on the record any other forms of fraud that count be detected from an audit+recount."

    This is the big reason IMHO.  Investigate, Document.
    In a few months non of this will exist if its not documented.

    Knowledge is Power.

    by biscobosco on Sun Dec 12, 2004 at 11:25:19 PM PDT

•  Even if Bush won,

  even if it's not Bush's Watergate, this ought to give us pause, to reflect on what NOT pursuing, exposing and fixing e-voting vulnerabilities means to our future.

  "If you want to win the election," he finally said, "just control the machines."

  by 2lucky on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 11:11:48 PM PDT

  •  I think the primary focus in FL

    would be an attack on unverfied voting. The only reason I can see not to agressively pursue our attack would be if we are too finacially drained from the campaign to wage a fight here. If that is the case we MUST take our stand no later than '06. I really see future elections as irrelevant until we take a stand and win against these fraud vulnerable machines. IF we haven't already been victims of fraud unless we close this vunlnerability someone WILL exploit it. We must make our stand before '08. Even if we don't have the finances for additional recounts at this time we need to be very aggressive in other ways now to fight this.

    by Ranger CN on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 11:20:55 PM PDT

•  recount maybe

  I spent all day getting out the vote here in Florida. Based on what I saw, I am extremely skeptical of the results.
  I'd love to see a recount, but I don't think it's the best place to focus our money and efforts.

  If there's any chance that we could get some initial results back from NH or OH before the FL deadline is up, then I think it would be good to reconsider it, based on the findings in the other states.

  by bikinikiller on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 11:43:01 PM PDT

  •  I'd be surprised

    I doubt they will even start a recount in OH before the FL window closes. NH I don't know. But I suspect our decision must be made without knowing anything from FL or NH.

    by Ranger CN on Sun Nov 14, 2004 at 11:53:13 PM PDT

    •  Thanks for the reply, ranger

      Ah well. I had a feeling it was too much to hope for.

      In that case, based on the success of the Ohio recount fundraising and depending on the cost of a florida recount, I would definitely hope that badnarik/cobb or nader would look into atleast recounting the most suspicious precints.

      I have to admit, I'm still insanely bitter over 2000. I want to see Florida redeem ourselves! Considering what I saw on Nov 2 and at the early voting booths, I'd say there's a pretty good chance we would.

      by bikinikiller on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 12:18:21 AM PDT

•  FL. Recount.

  Florida has been smelling since 2000, Bush v Gore, and it's stinking now. Our country is going down the Crapper fast. The President's Brother has been the governor of that state for the past 2 elections.('00 bush + 500 votes & appointed pres.)('04 bush +300,000) Something's rotten in Denmark. This year, they said it was to close to call and Bush wins by over 300,000. votes...BULLSHIT, I SAY. Everyday the headlines on Kos become worse and almost hard to believe. If this election is not worth fighting for, what will it take?   Let's make this year go down in the history books and also make sure those machines work...If I was a betting man, I would bet the House and double down that something went on in Florida. If we are gonna bring him down, lets go for it all the way. He showed his worth in the debates. Remember, the Florida Supremes were on our side in 2000 (BvG), they said Keep counting, it was the US Supremes that shut us down. IF there is enough time...I say.....LET"S ROLL!!!

  by Chamonix on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 12:06:21 AM PDT

•  Florida is THE

  most important state to recount.

  I can't emphasize this enough.

  by nephalim on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 12:25:42 AM PDT

  •  asdf

    For what reason is Florida the most important to recount?

    by tlh lib on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 01:04:24 AM PDT

    •  Why?

      Because:
      A - It's had fishy election results since 2000
      B - Has extremely corrupt and inexcusable humans beings such as Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush behind the curtain
      C - Had some of the most striking irregularities (perhaps tied with Pennsylvania and New Hampshire.) But this one we lost, and this one has a LOT of electoral votes at stake - and I do believe such a corrupt election system we can consider it red until something drastic is done.

      by nephalim on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 07:07:05 PM PDT

      •  asdf

        A - IMO goes right in line with B
        B - Glenda Hood is more in it than Harris and no better imo.
        C - From what I've read though, the NH recount is important for precisely this reason.... that it will expose Florida and others who use optical scans.

        The thing is though, it's such a drastic margin that a recount would do little to nothing for this presidential election.  What does make me think this is an important state to recount, more so than Bush-Kerry, is Castor-Martinez.  That result stinks to high heaven imo... especially the way Martinez got a huge dump of votes towards the end of the counting.

        by tlh lib on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 10:16:47 PM PDT

•  cost?

  Anyone know how much it would cost to get a statewide recount in Florida?

  by shipyardian on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 12:51:25 AM PDT

•  Recount in Florida

  I am in for $100. where does it go?

  by lorna18 on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 04:38:41 AM PDT

•  Good point

  Wish this one had a recommend button...

  by spsnomad on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 04:47:15 AM PDT

•  Sorry

  For some reason it didn't show up the first time.

  by spsnomad on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 04:47:53 AM PDT

•  Yes

  (First, hello everyone. This is my first comment on this website.)
  Personally, I'd love to see a Florida recount. I voted in FL so perhaps my opinion is a little biased, but something just seems fishy. I think it could be dangerous to ignore that and just let Florida pass through. If we want to find out what happened, Florida and Ohio seem like the two places that really need to be looked at. Maybe it wouldn't flip the election, but could it maybe flip Castor/Martinez? I don't know. In any case, if your objective is to find evidence of "vote tampering" or whatever they're calling it, Florida just might be the smoking gun. But we'll never know if we don't look.

  by Miss Alabama on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 04:47:23 PM PDT

•  I emailed a link to this to the Green Party.

  by Ranger CN on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 11:08:04 PM PDT