Wingnuttery: Selfish blue states?

Update [2004-11-16 20:5:50 by dennisdeveny]: There's actually a good con argument at Samuel Johnson.

A wingnut alum from my college sent me this from the Catalogue For Philanthropy.

He claims that Howard Stern was circulating a hoax list of average IQ's with red states filling the bottom half and blue the top*.

The philanthropy list is the opposite: the generous states are painted red and the selfish ones are blue.

My initial response (assuming the data are accurate) is: that's to be expected.

One difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats feel that benevolent support should come through government while fiscal conservatives would rather have it come through non-government charitable organizations. I would hope that Reps actually give to these organizations as they are apparently voting for their tax dollars to go to foreign wars.

Further, the states are ranked by degree of "having". The poorest states (red) are at the top of the list. Poorer states are going to have a greater need for giving. Wouldn't any analysis like this always have the poorest states at the list's top?

Any additional thoughts are welcome.

*I saw an email with such a list but I couldn't verify its accuracy so I didn't pass it along - but I don't necessarily buy it was a "hoax".

•  Damn Lies and statistics

  The figures on "charitable contributions" are correct - they are based upon claimed IRS charitable deductions.

  But is you pause for a minute to reflect, you will see that those donations by fundie christians to Rev. Jimmy Bob and the "god hates fags" foundation are "charitable" deductions - so it is no surprise that the red states are higher.

  by tiponeill on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 03:47:20 PM PDT

•  My charitable contributionsq

  Are all going to the red states themselves through our lovely federal tax welfare system...no wonder they have more money to give to their fundie churches.

  by Kels on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 03:58:24 PM PDT

  •  Serously

    These folks are nothing more than Selfish.  Not only blue state federal tax dollars find their way toward the red states, but they also want more funds through charities too?  

    I thought these folks were for self dependence/ personal responsiblity.

    Lets all send the report on how Red States are taking Blue State money which can be found here http://www.taxfoundation.org/ff/taxingspendingupdate.html  to Ms. Malkin

    [e-mail]

    by EMKennedyLucio on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 04:23:50 PM PDT

•  The Widow's Mite

  The way the index is apparently calculated, generosity is tax-deductible charitable giving as a fraction of income.  As you noted, income is lower in the red states.  If you look at absolute amounts of charitable contributions, the map would look different.  Last I heard, most rich philanthropists live in blue states:  California, Washington, New York.

  And yes, contributions to churches do count as charitable contributions.  So anybody who tithes is 10% generous.  Union dues, on the other hand, don't count.  

  by yella dawg dem on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 04:02:11 PM PDT

  •  Other reasons...

    I found some more here.

    The upshot is similar to the widow's mite:

    "there's an implicit handicap on wealthier states because they have less room to 'move up'"

    by dennisdeveny on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 04:08:10 PM PDT

•  There is an explanation

  Certain religions emphasize the concept of tithing (i.e. giving a percentage of one's income to the church) more than others, and Southerners are more likely to do this. While this is perhaps "charity", it doesn't necessarily indicate that these folks are more generous and care more for the poor.

  by soultaco on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 04:16:10 PM PDT

  •  But would that account for such a difference?

    I understand that giving is counted differently -- organizations like churches are charitable versus unions which aren't. But on a statewide basis would that make such a large impact?

    Perhaps it's because blue states give more to political causes? Do those get counted?

    by dennisdeveny on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 04:39:15 PM PDT

    •  Certainly it could.

      The Mormons and certain evangelical churches are big proponents of the 10-percent tithe. Some articles on generosity in the red states have noted this, too.

      by soultaco on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 05:04:28 PM PDT

•  tithing in a blue state

  I tithe and don't declare it on my taxes.  My 10% doesn't add up to enough to make it worth more than the standard deduction (or worth my while to itemize, as far as I can tell, anyway.  I can't afford a tax preparer, either).

  by mskate on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 04:53:30 PM PDT

•  lies, damn lies, and statistics

  OK, if you click through to the actual data and look at the "All Returns" tab and sort the "Chartiable Contributions (thousands) column, you'll find...

  (assuming the election results as of 11/16 stand; scroll down for the hard numbers!

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  Rank	State	Charitable Contributions (thousands)
  1	California	$18,366,448
  2	New York	$12,436,008
  3	Texas	$8,333,066
  4	Florida	$7,464,893
  5	Illinois	$6,202,302
  6	New Jersey	$5,083,211
  7	Pennsylvania	$5,069,866
  8	Georgia	$5,025,901
  9	Michigan	$4,649,230
  10	Ohio	$4,551,169
  11	North Carolina	$4,311,715
  12	Maryland	$4,116,078
  13	Virginia	$4,097,753
  14	Massachusetts	$3,345,883
  15	Washington	$2,760,209
  16	Minnesota	$2,697,057
  17	Tennessee	$2,572,904
  18	Indiana	$2,427,814
  19	Colorado	$2,405,550
  20	Missouri	$2,326,377
  21	Arizona	$2,253,139
  22	Alabama	$2,190,609
  23	Connecticut	$2,177,039
  24	Wisconsin	$2,168,776
  25	South Carolina	$2,051,163
  26	Utah	$2,025,736
  27	Oklahoma	$1,612,434
  28	Oregon	$1,596,034
  29	Kentucky	$1,470,536
  30	Louisiana	$1,420,335
  31	Kansas	$1,194,460
  32	Mississippi	$1,080,565
  33	Iowa	$1,064,719
  34	Arkansas	$1,032,965
  35	Nevada	$992,927
  36	Nebraska	$759,636
  37	Idaho	$597,676
  38	New Mexico	$535,699
  39	Hawaii	$491,150
  40	New Hampshire	$462,817
  41	Delaware	$424,940
  42	Rhode Island	$392,683
  43	Maine	$380,972
  44	West Virginia	$353,656
  45	Montana	$325,734
  46	Wyoming	$256,727
  47	Alaska	$241,169
  48	South Dakota	$202,398
  49	Vermont	$188,394
  50	North Dakota	$161,253

  That is a sum total of $70,248,888,000 for the blue states and $21,823,536,000 for the red states.  In fact, those liberal bastions, New York and California alone, give out $30,802,456,000, which is $8,978,920,000 more per year than all of the red states combined.

  Add on top of that the now infamous comparison of Federal tax dollars versus Federal spending in red and blue states and there is no competition for who is more generous!!!

  by fieldsey on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 05:05:49 PM PDT

  •  And if you look at the percent given ...

    I've averaged out the giving percentage by state:

    Red states:
    AGI:$2,753,988,073
    Contributions:$65,340,678
    = 2.37%

    Blue states
    AGI:$3,086,033,297
    Contributions:$70,312,040
    = 2.28%

    So, Red states out gave Blue states by 9/100th of a percent. Those hypocritical, selfish libruls!!!

    I don't know how to post an image, but I'll try: I've ranked the states and made one of them there red/blue charts.
    
    

    by dennisdeveny on Thu Nov 18, 2004 at 09:52:02 AM PDT