Daily Kos

Who's Istook and why does he want your tax forms?

Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 09:43:08 AM PDT

elevated from the diaries by DemFromCT. Class is now in session with Professor Kagro X at the chalkboard. There'll be an open book quiz tomorrow, so pay attention.

That Rep. Ernie Istook (R-OK) was the source of the offensive IRS snooping provisions found yesterday in the omnibus spending bill comes as no surprise to those who remember the infamous "Istook amendment" battles of the mid-1990s.

The "Istook amendment" was at the heart of the post-Contract With America GOP fight to "de-fund the left," an effort to undermine or eliminate liberal advocacy groups and their opposition to the right-wing agenda, by destroying its funding mechanisms.

It ultimately failed, but apparently Istook never gave up on his mission to target and harass liberal advocates, as we learned on the Senate floor last night.

So, what's he after, exactly?

Cloaked in the garb of "fiscal responsibility," the Istook amendment sought to prohibit lobbying by organizations that received federal grants. Such organizations, Istook and his allies reasoned, were fleecing the government by using their federal grant money to lobby for still more grants. Fiscal conservatism demanded, therefore, that those feeding at the public trough be cut off. Of course, it just so happened that most federal grantees involved in lobbying were liberal-leaning activist groups, whereas conservative activists did most of their work through privately funded, tax-exempt organizations such as the Heritage Foundation and their ilk. This gave perfect "budget hawk" cover to what would otherwise be an obviously partisan attack.

Istook's name became attached to these amendments because he was their primary sponsor in the House appropriations committee, but originally a free-standing bill containing the same language was proposed by then-Reps. David McIntosh (R-IN) and Bob Ehrlich (R-MD). Istook joined as a primary cosponsor. Rather than bring the bill to the floor on its own, Istook attached it in committee to the must-pass Labor-HHS appropriations bill. Why? Because as one McIntosh aide said at the time, "This is something we believe will pass the House and may pass the Senate, but would be veto bait as a free-standing bill." ("Conservatives Spur New Lobbying War," Roll Call, July 10, 1995)

Concurrent with the heyday of the Istook amendment were other efforts backed by other Republicans, most notably ex-Rep. Bob Dornan (R-CA) and ex-Sen. Alan Simpson (R-WY), also aimed at eliminating or severely curtailing left-leaning lobbying. Dornan broke with Istook, McIntosh and Ehrlich and instead backed a measure to prohibit federal grants to any tax-exempt organization, targeting in particular the AARP, the AFL-CIO, the NEA and HIV/AIDS activists. Simpson actually conducted his own investigation of the AARP, prying into their finances and activities, ratcheting up pressure that many believe eventually resulted in AARP's capitulation years later on Republican-sponsored Medicare reform.

Few Democrats ever doubted that the Istook amendment was a partisan, targeted effort against liberal advocacy groups, but it there were any reason to doubt that conclusion, it's quickly erased by noting that it limited lobbying only by grantees, rather than by any organization that received federal financial support. The amendment's language, by focusing on grantees, specifically exempted from such regulation the many right-leaning non-profit "think tanks" upon which Congressional Republicans depended for policy initiatives and strategy. Istook supporters claimed there was little need for such regulation, because the right's think tanks were privately funded. But of course, this ignores their tax-exempt status, which amounts to a federal subsidy.

Is it a stretch to equate tax-exemption to a federal subsidy? Not if you ask Istook. In his June 29, 1995 testimony in support of his efforts, he cited several Supreme Court decisions upholding the government's right to regulate the use of federal funds for political advocacy that he hoped would demonstrate the legality of the restrictions he proposed. In fact, Istook quoted one such case, Regan v. Taxation with Representation of Washington, declaring, "Both tax exemptions and tax-deductibility are a form of subsidy that is administered through the tax system. A tax exemption has much the same effect as a cash grant to the organizationof the amount of tax it would have to pay on its income...."

The same effect as a cash grant? Then why no regulation of the Heritage Foundation? The American Enterprise Institute? The then-powerful, Gingrich-associated Progress and Freedom Foundation? National Empowerment Televison? Today's Tom DeLay-associated tax-exempt foundation? The Scaife-funded associations? Hmm.

Now Istook has found an even more targeted and less accountable way to target liberal advocacy groups: one at a time, through their tax records and those of their donors.

This measure apparently won't pass either, but perhaps there's a door opening here. Given the unprecedented access that tax-exempt, right wing think tanks and policy shops now enjoy in the Bush administration, perhaps there is some validity to what Istook himself testified all those years ago. Does the reemergence of the ballooning federal budget deficit demand a closer scrutiny of who American taxpayers are subsidizing and why?

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Permalink | 115 comments

  •  I was hoping you'd write this (none / 0)

    thanks!!

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by DemFromCT on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 09:29:23 AM PDT

    •  After seeing it in short form. . . (none / 0)

      in the comments last night, I was too.  I was also thinking we needed some sort of catalogue in dKosopedia of the procedural manouvers that were being taken, along with their substantive consequences.  These are the sorts of moves people pass over, but it's pretty clear that they often aggregate to a damaging whole.  It would be nice if we could track that.
    •  I have discovered the secret! (4.00 / 17)

      The secret of getting your diaires promoted to the front page is posting it and then immediately leaving the computer to do something else.

      Then, when you come back from your errands or wake up the next morning, everybody's yelling at you to put up a tip jar, and you have to piggyback it on somebody else's post or else it gets buried.

      •  questiuon for professor. . . (4.00 / 2)

        Ok, you have a lot of knowledge about the workings and history of the Hill. . . how can we as a Kos community become better at consolidating our collective knowledge, wisdom and efforst to become a direct pipeline for candidiates and politicians?

        It seems to me that very few of the folks on "our side" ae knowledgeable and up to date on issues the way many of use are.  Ideally, their staffs should be feeding them but they are often swamped, and anyway they can't match the breaths and depth of analysis and intellectual firepower this community can provide at its best.

        So, how can we become better organized to feed these people?  Can we become something like an "open source" Heritage Foundation of the left?  Do we need to break ourselves as diarists up into subgroups of expertise, providing research and up to date talking points and advocacy action alerts?  With the rapid expansion of this community, I think we can leverage our strengths better and become more effective, but I'm wondering what you think about how we might accomplish that.

        Thanks for this post.  It mystifies me to hear the crickets chirping at WaPo and NYT on this Istook issue.  But the RWCM is driven by what we can feed our pols, so I think we need to do that better.

        We are not "compassionate conservatives." We are "fighting liberals." And we'll kick your ass.

        by Pachacutec on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 12:18:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My short answer. (4.00 / 2)

          My short answer is that I think we need to cultivate the relationship between the Daily Kos and the DCCC and DSCC, and through them with the House and Senate Democratic Caucuses.

          My experience in the House always was that the bulk of the strategic analysis of pending legislation came from the now-defunct Democratic Study Group, and later from the Democratic Caucus. That was the most consistent and direct pipeline of positioning and argument available to staffers, and therefore to their bosses.

          The DSG, if I recall correctly, was actually a progressive organ in the House, founded by like-minded Members as a way to put in the hands of progressive Representatives the very same analysis and arguments we've always wanted to see them get. It was actually kind of a back-channel, meant to bypass the rather conservative Democratic leadership machinery of its time.

          It died when it was defunded by the newly-minted Republican leadership that took over the House in 1995. That and ice delivery, which while a nice service, just didn't seem to have the same impact.

          At any rate, some of those functions were taken over by the House Democratic Caucus, because that was the only source of funding available to Democrats at the time. Of course, that put it in the hands of a decidedly more conservative bunch than the folks who founded and ran the DSG.

          That would be something I'd like to see revived. And I think you just gave me an idea. Hopefully, you'll all beat me to stating it.

          •  Committee Staffs (4.00 / 2)

            In most cases, by the time a Bill hits the floor it's too late.

            Cultivate a staffer or 2 on each Committee of interest.

            Once a bill goes to Conference things get tougher, as only the Conference appointees and their stafsf have access to revisions.

            Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
            Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

            by ben masel on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 01:44:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh, suuuure, if you care about substance! (none / 0)

              This is definitely true, when it comes to making substantive changes to legislation.

              Right now, that's probably not a realistic goal, though. Still, you never give up on it entirely.

              My thinking was more along the lines of strategy for the floor action, and how to play the cards we're dealt for the benefit of the viewing audience.

          •  prompting an idea. . . (none / 1)

            was the whole idea!

            We need to consolidate and focus our collective brainpower to feed our politicians and their staffs.  Intellectual capital is not capital unless it can be packaged and used by others.  We write a lot around here, and some percentage of it is excellent, but a lot is dying on the vine as the diaries fade away, even if they emerge to become recommended.

            We might require a paid editorial staff to float above Kos community, gather and consolidate key points and ideas on different issues, and feed them to Hill staffers and to new entrants to local political arenas nationwide.  

            Perhaps netroots could fund this, and some small award or stipend can be disbursed regulalrly by this editorial review board to any contributors whose work deserves merit or inclusion in their consolidated materials.  Nothing huge, but something to help encourage and recognize solid work.  The idea is not to create a huge community of paid thinkers, but to reward and recognize, in some token way, excellent work, based on per-piece merit - and not based on being a longtime inside player in the party.

            I know Kos has cryptically mentioned some think tank ideas or projects he has in mind, and I don't know if this is the idea you had sparked upon, but this seems like it might be a promising model, in general terms, to me.

            We are not "compassionate conservatives." We are "fighting liberals." And we'll kick your ass.

            by Pachacutec on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 02:23:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Does cspan site have the video of this archived? (none / 0)

      Missed this on saturday & just went to the cspan website to see if they have video from the senate floor archived for viewing.  Couldn't find it.  Seems they have hearings & such archived but not floor debate?  

      Does anyone else know if this sort of stuff can be viewed anywhere?

      And now for something completely different... always look on the bright side of life --Monty Python

      by goldilocks on Mon Nov 22, 2004 at 08:00:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Jeez (none / 0)

    Keep up the good work, every time you post I learn something new.  Not really something, more like a lot of stuff. Its like having my own private historian/teacher.
  •  You've been an invaluable (none / 1)

    fount of analysis, information, and wisdom here lately. I'm very grateful for your contribution. Please stick around!

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 09:33:57 AM PDT

  •  Kagro X for Congress (4.00 / 2)

    Where do I contribute?

    Thrice is he armed who hath his quarrel just. Sherlock Holmes.

    by Carnacki on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 09:39:34 AM PDT

  •  Great Work (none / 0)

    KX.......  This is worthy of the front page, it needs to be discussed in the bigger community.

    Again, thanks.

    Mark

    •  there's apparently agreement for it to come out (none / 0)

      next week, but we'll have to follow that. With such a public battering last night, this time at least , I think it's out.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by DemFromCT on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 09:48:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wouldn't count on it... (none / 0)

        From what I read re: the intelligence reform (I still think that's an oxymoron) I don't know if the house will even come back for session next week. Even if they do, do you trust Delay to take it out, even if they "gave their word" that they would? It would probably lead to a big shit storm, but these guys are getting bolder and bolder.

        Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

        by Toktora on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:01:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  thank God for CSPAN2 (none / 1)

          I believe they're committed, else McCain And Grassley look likr dorks along with Stevens, who gave his word on TV not in the back room.

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by DemFromCT on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:17:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not everyone watched... (none / 1)

            You must remember that only a handful of us actually saw that exchange yesterday. Must people are blissfully ignorant of the fact this even happened. Even if they read something about the bill they didn't hear about how bad this provision is. Sure the senators will lose some face, but they can blame it on the house. And McCain voted against it, he won't lose much face (don't remember about Grassley).

            I'm just trying to say, keep an eye on this. I don't believe it's a dead issue. Be on the lookout for backdoor chicanery (and I thought the republicans were against that kind of "interaction").

            Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

            by Toktora on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:22:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you misunderstand... (none / 1)

              the public doesn't even know about this, but Boxer and Feinsteion do and they have this on tape. So do the political reporters. This is not going to be easy to renege.

              "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

              by DemFromCT on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:26:36 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That is true... (none / 0)

                I hadn't thought about that side of this. I would still watch the issue develop in the house (wonder when they'll take it up and how we find out). My personal oppinion of the house leadership is they will do and say anything to screw their opponents, and this could become another example of this approach to governing.

                Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

                by Toktora on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:32:03 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Also... (4.00 / 3)

                  and I can't say I have any real basis for thinking this is what's behind it: in the Senate, if you vote with the majority on passage of a bill, you're entitled to call it back up for reconsideration, I believe within a certain time frame after passage.

                  Sometimes you'll see a Senator who's opposed to a bill or a particular provision in a bill switch his or her vote in order to be able to do this.

                  The Democrats who voted to pass the bill may very well legitimately support it, for whatever reasons. But they may also be guaranteeing themselves the right to move for reconsideration if the bill comes back and they discover the offensive provisions haven't been removed.

            •  Frist can't afford to piss Grassley off. (none / 0)

              If they lose him to the Bullmoosers, the numbers are there to cut a formal coation deal with the Dems.

              Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
              Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

              by ben masel on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 02:02:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Istook ITR "Amendment" (none / 0)

        Whether or not they take it out doesn't matter; when going about their "business", Republican committee heads will take a peak at Americans' tax returns whenever they're requested to by the NeoCon Fascists.

        Notice: This Comment © ROGNM

        by ROGNM on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:32:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  figures... (4.00 / 6)

    Great catch. Istook is a toad.  He is a primary pusher of the School Prayer amendment.

    And before politics, he was a trial lawyer!  Some 20 years ago, he represented my wife's mother when she had to sue her insurance company.  Doesn't he know those lawsuits lead to higher rates???  Why does he hate business???

    And he can be so sure of the reflexive support of our wingnut voter base that he led the fight to deny civilian DOD employees the same FY05 pay raise as the military, even though his district is chock full of civilian employees of huge Tinker AFB.  Lots of "values voters", you know.

    The Republicans are busy turning government into a giant one-way mirror.  Hell, a magnifying mirror.  We can't see in, but...

    Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. -- Ambrose Bierce

    by OkieByAccident on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 09:49:48 AM PDT

    •  Kooky Ideas (4.00 / 4)

      Congressman Istook is the Chairman of the Transportation and Treasury Appropriations Subcommittee where he came out with the idiotic statement that every dollar spent on Amtrak is a dollar taken from highway construction.  

      Amtrak's "subsidy" comes from general funds and most highway construction is paid from gas taxes from the highway trust fund.

      Amtrak got $1.2 billion so it will continue scraping by this year but is sure to be flushed down the toilet with all those other government programs when the GOP Crash hits.

  •  Great stuff! (none / 0)

    Tip jar! Tip jar!

    I missed the action unfolding real-time on CSPAN yesterday, and this piece is an excellent window into who the people are behind this measure and what their agenda is. Fine job.

  •  answers (none / 0)

    So shorter kagroX:

    Because he's an asshole.

    "The way the loser loses will determine whether the winner wins in November." -- Rahm Emanuel

    by Newsie8200 on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 09:54:16 AM PDT

  •  on the somewhat peripheral topic of tax emeption (4.00 / 9)

    I think it may be time to end all tax exempt status:  Non-Profits, Churches, Think Tanks, the works!  If the NAACP is a partisan body (it is) and the NRA is a partisan body (it is) and the Southern Baptist Convention is a partisan body (it DAMN WELL is!) and they all contribute to poltical campaigns, I think there is a good argument they should lose their tax emept status.

    On a more basic level, with the budget nightmare we are looking at, how do we justify letting some groups out of their tax responsiblity just because they perform "socially responsible" activity in other ways?  The most socially responsible thing any of us can do is help pay off the aproximately $300,000 we each individaully owe on the national debt.  Time to make those deadbeat charities, churches, and state/local government agencies pony up to fill in the hole.

    "Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate" John Locke

    by TheGryphon on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 09:54:50 AM PDT

    •  The true victims of this legislation (none / 1)

      While it is true that there are many, many organizations that use the tax exempt status for their own gain, and often they are organizations that many Americans don't agree with or even know of, there are also nonprofits that protect the rights of our children.  As the Democrats lose more and more of our social issues and protections that have been in place for years, I shudder to think how many organizations who currently operate with tax exempt status would fold when they are often the last resort for those less fortunate than our leaders.  

      I will not die an unlived life. Not in fear, I will live out loud and on the record. Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) 1-800-787-3224 (TTY)

      by caliberal on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:41:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Excuse me? (4.00 / 3)

      The most socially responsible thing any of us can do is help pay off the aproximately $300,000 we each individaully owe on the national debt.

      I'm sorry, but I don't owe that money. Nor do you.

      I suggest that the most "socially responsible" thing we can all do is to get that money back from the ones who stole it.  The corrupt corporations and the wealthy who feed off the commonweal.  High on that list are Enron and Halliburton and their officers and shareholders, but there are, in absolute fact, tens of thousands of people who have stolen from the commonweal and owe big time.

      The one sure dynamic of the coming decades will be the collection of that debt. The process can be orderly and civilised, or chaotic and brutal, but the inbalance WILL be corrected.

      don't always believe what you think...

      by claude on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:14:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (none / 1)

        Let's start parsing through legislation which even congresspeople don't bother to read and line by line, begin highlighting all of the cronyish and special interest "gimme's" that slide through the legislative process.  In addition, let's carefully examine the distribution of funds in the "reconstruction" of Iraq.  Why should I pay one nickel of what "I individual owe" when Halliburton gets away with accidentally losing eight billion dollars.  

        While I believe that we can do more to ensure that those who receive tax-exempt status are not political, it is ridiculous and extreme to argue that no charity should enjoy a tax exemption.  It would also be ineffectual; as genuine charities, which help increase the productiveness of society by increasing the number of economic actors in the marketplace, are not the true cause of this nation's economic woes (the cause is clear enough to not warrant repeating here), taxing those charities would simply enlargen the pool of money to be misappropriated and redistributed to a parasitic aristocracy.  It's bad enough that our tax dollars are flowing to Halliburton; what would it solve to impose a tax liability on the Boys' and Girls' Club to be swallowed by the likes of Halliburton as well?  To reach the correct solution, you need to examine the real problem.

      •  huh? (none / 0)

        The Debt is a little older than Enron and Halliburton.
    •  Per-Capita National Debt (none / 1)

      National or public debt is now limited to $8.2 Trillion. At 280 million people, that's about $30,000 per capita. Still easily payable over 15 years with a small increase in tax rates and some spending discipline. See Public-Debt ceiling raised by Congress

      I like your idea from a fiscal standpoint. But these charities mostly help the poor and disadvantaged. Once the tax-exempt status is removed, they'll receive less assistance. That'll mean the powerless, the helpless and the weak end up paying the bulk of the debt. Raising the money through higher tax rates at higher income levels seems more humane way to cut the debt. Of course, that's what Clinton set the country on the road to -- with his budget surpluses -- before W entered stage right.

      •  my numbers weren't per capita (none / 0)

        they were per worker.  It came out of a thread I saw here yesterday...but cna't track down now.  At the time, I followed the link and it looked kosher...but point taken.

        I think in the long run, taxing charities is still good for us.  this may sound heartless, but anything that makes private charity seem less effective helps us in the long run, sice most private charities are "faith-based" in some way.  We are for PUBLIC charity, on the theroy that it is farier and less judgemental.

        "Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate" John Locke

        by TheGryphon on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:30:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Well.. (none / 0)

      Ron Paul on the National Debt, from the floor of the House on November 18th, 2004:

      The term ``national debt'' really is a misnomer. It is not the Nation's debt. Instead, it is the Federal Government's debt. The American people did not spend the money, but they will have to pay it back.

      "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

      by RBH on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:35:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Charitable giving is idiosyncratic (none / 1)

      Permitting tax deductions for charitable contributions elevates private choices to the level of public choices.  As a result, at the margin we get more homes for cats and less money for education.

      "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation..."--David St. Hubbins

      by Old Left Good Left on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:45:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Rch & yuppies should pay off the national debt (none / 1)

      Someone wrote:
      "The most socially responsible thing any of us can do is help pay off the aproximately $300,000 we each individaully owe on the national debt.  Time to make those deadbeat charities, churches, and state/local government agencies pony up to fill in the hole."

      How about we return to progressive taxation with the ttop rates of 50-60-70% or so, and the rich and the upper income yuppies can pay off the national debt. They are the ones who can afford it!

    •  government has to be tax-exempt (none / 0)

      Only quibble with that excellent comment is that state/local government has to remain tax-exempt.  Otherwise, it's your tax dollars paying that tax bill, too.
  •  While I completely agree with your assessment, (4.00 / 9)

    I would take this one step further. I would also go to say that this provision was included in order to target political opponents. I mean, the right would have had a field day if they could have "acquired" Theresa H. Kerry's tax records and leak them out to the public (and blow it out of proportion on Faux News).

    The same can be said of the AG's in NY and Houston doing investigations that could lead to big political storms for the right. If they can find ANYTHING to use against them it would be to repub's benifit to do so and use it. If that is a campaign doation to Kerry or another Dem. campaign it will be used to show partisainship. If it's a donation to a tax-exempt organization that leans to the left, they can try and show bias.

    In short, I think this provision, while being a way to cut the legs out from under the Dem lobbyists, would also have FAR broader implications, and uses to keep the repubs in power for as long as the eye can see.

    That said, great work...keep it up. I hadn't seen your handle before this week, but it's one of the ones I now seek out for good information.

    Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

    by Toktora on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 09:56:37 AM PDT

    •  Yep (none / 0)

      That was my first reaction to hearing about the current effort -- the left-wing lobbying angle hadn't even occurred to me.

      During my brief tenure in Washington, I met more than enough activists who had been audited by the IRS to have a sense of how this might be used.

    •  The New McCartheyism (4.00 / 2)

      I made this point in response to another post on this provision, but think it needs repeating.  I believe we are headed into another McCarthey era in this country.  The atmosphere of fear that has been created by 1) 9/11 and 2) hype in the recent election has had a serious impact on thinking in this country.  An environment has been created where people are willing to believe there are threats lurking behind every tree.  And we have a propaganda machine -- well-funded, sophisticated, and coordinated -- that is spewing out a steady stream of disinformation in this country.

      Provisions such as this one provide a mechanism to support the new McCartheyism.  While we can argue that possibly some of the tax-exempt organizations should be exposed for what they are, it seems unlikely that a Republican Congress is really going to do that.  

      More likely they will go after everyone who they perceive as being traitors to this country.  And all anybody has to do is listen to Limbaugh or Hannity for a few days to figure out who those traitors are.

      •  Absolutely! (none / 1)

        However, this time it appears to be happening much more quietly. Behind closed doors even. I also think this period will be much more insidious and harder to recover from. Let's hope that all of my predictions for after the election go the way of my predictions about the election: in the toilet!

        Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

        by Toktora on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:56:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I also completely agree with my assessment. (4.00 / 6)

      Surprise! But seriously, you're clearly right about what other goodies -- and they may in fact be the primary goodies here -- Republicans were after with this hidden provision.

      I offered this historical background in order to help answer the questions of "Why Istook?" and "Why appropriations chairmen?"

      This was a wild-eyed scheme to begin with. It represents a willingness to engage in the sort of predatory and thoroughly evil political tactics we thought only existed in the movies. It may have been obvious why Republicans would want to have access to tax records, but it was by no means obvious which Members in particular would have the balls to actually try to slip in a secret provision allowing this, or where they'd even get the idea that it was something that should exist in the real world.

      It's just so incredibly crazy that I thought the reality-based community would be clamoring to know where in hell these people are coming from.

      •  And thank you for that... (none / 0)

        I'm a bit too young to remember the 90's political climate (I wasn't very political in my late teens. It's amazing what a raping from an administration can do to you!) other than the fact that I hated Clinton, but also thought the Gingrich revulsion was a scam by a bunch of nut bags. Glad someone's around to set the record straight.

        Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, only not as much fun.

        by Toktora on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 12:00:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  well, i believe if the language was not (none / 0)

        as carefully crafted as previous istook stuff, then dems should be making this amendment known to every corporation and wealthy bush supporter as well as to individual americans.

        their returns are also capable of being targets. have they thought of what happens if dems return to power? or even if they cross the current administration? this is definitely workable as a nonpartisan issue and dems should use it to highlight what happens when conferences are limited to one party - there is no check or balance and even the supporters of that one party are in for a major screw over.

        We get a lot of advice. We tend to listen when somebody's won something. - Joe Lockhart

        by yankeedoodler on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 01:38:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  awakening the sleeping giant (none / 0)

    We're discussing a similar issue--the untapped political power of the nonprofit sector--over at Liberal Street Fight.

    I post this here only as a matter of offering up another perspective on Kagro's excellent commentary. Honestly. Theoria is the designated LSF diary whore.

    Colorado Independent and Unbossed -- pursuing truth over balance.

    by em dash on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:07:01 AM PDT

  •  How to comment on Istook's Web site (4.00 / 3)

    Istook is yet another nut from Oklahoma. I'm ashamed of my state. He has a form for feedback on his Web site but it's filtered by zip+4 code. I suggest we post our comments anyway. Just go to his Web site:

    here

    and enter 73102 and some random +4 number to get access to his comment form. You'll have to give a name, but I just made one up.

    Let's flood his inbox with comments. Note that you can select "Privacy" from a drop down menu as the subject of your message to Istook. Ironic.

  •  Good catch (none / 1)

    on the hypocrisy of prohibiting lobbying by receivers of grants, as opposed to tax-exempt status.

    But, to take it even further, wouldn't logical consistency demand that he be in favor of prohibiting lobbying from those who receive federal contracts?  I mean, seriously; in the greater scheme of "lobbying for a seat at the trough," aren't federal grants relatively small potatoes?

    •  Absolutely right. (4.00 / 3)

      The essence of the Republican argument was that even if grant funds themselves weren't being used for lobbying (and they weren't, that was already prohibited by federal law), it didn't really matter, since money is fungible. Grant funds would pay for some other activity, and the money which would have paid for that activity could then be used for lobbying. (There are a number of good reasons why this isn't true, either, but that's another story.)

      But contract money is fungible, too. So are the tax savings realized through exemption.

      In seeking to differentiate between grantees and contractors, Republicans argued that contracts are simply a different animal. To prove their point, they frequently displayed a thick book of existing laws, rules and regulations covering procurement and contracting policy -- a favorite trick among "small government Republicans." Of course, the size of the stack of regulations does nothing to address the issue they were supposedly complainig of: the fungibility of contract payments.

      It was equally absurd for them to dsiplay that stack of regulations in given that their solution to the "problem" was never to reduce regulation of contracts, but rather to increase regulation of grants. In other words, they were looking to make the stack even bigger. And remember, this was years before the Bush administration exploded the small government Republican myth. This was still in the days of the Contract With America.

      The Republican argument also ignored the fact that the final stage of a negotiation of a grant agreement with the federal government is the signing of a contract. That makes the line between grantees, who agree to spend grant monies in the provision of services on the government's behalf, and federal contractors, who agree to provide goods or services to the government in exchange for cash, a very fine one indeed.

      That's a very long way of saying that Istook, the amendment, and its supporters, are way full of it.

      Before the amendment came to the floor during the Labor-HHS appropriations bill debate, ex-Rep. David Skaggs (D-CO) managed to wrangle some partial answers from the Republicans on what the differences were supposed to be between "grantees" and everyone else who got money from the government. Often the answers were basically in the form of, "this doesn't apply to X because we say so," though there was never any language in the amendment that specifically said so.

      Churches were exempted, WIC recipients were deemed to be "beneficiaries" and not "grantees" for whatever reason, and were exempted as well. Farmers receiving farm subsidies were covered, and would have been prohibited from lobbying as a result. Recipients of "sod-buster" payments, however, were deemed to be receiving "entitlements" and not grants. OK. Irrigators getting water from Bureau of Reclamation projects were not affected, nor were mining companies acquiring title to mineral lands, since both were deemed involved in "transactions" and not grants. Clearly, they were just making this stuff up as they went along.

  •  Turkee to Kent Conrad. (4.00 / 4)

    Talkingpointsmemo.com has a post that the Istook amendment was discovered by one of Kent Conrad's staffers. He's up for re-elect in North Dakota in 2006 and is a prime target for the Republicans. He needs all the help you can give him.

    And unlike so-called liberals like Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton, he voted against the bill in its entirety.

    http://www.senate.gov/~conrad/

  •  He was my congressman when I was in OKC... (none / 0)

    ...we tried every two years to throw him out, with no success.  

    Now I'm in Sarasota, and I have Katherine Harris!  What did I do wrong to deserve this?

    Anyway....Istook seems to follow his own agenda even to the detriment of his district.  In addition to what was brough out above, he voted AGAINST a public transportation subsidy for Oklahoma City, but FOR a subsidy for Salt Lake City.  Did I mention that he's Mormon?

    Andy

    The Alton Weekly Inquirer! News roundup with snark returns on September 5th!

    by AAbshier on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:23:13 AM PDT

    •  Consequence of gerrymandering? (4.00 / 3)

      In light of Istook's sally and the rebellion by Hunter and Sensenbrenner over the intel bill, I wonder if this is just the beginning.  Have gerrymandering and the powers of incumbency made a bunch of members think that they are invulnerable?  They can buck their the President and even their leadership on issues and not suffer?  I wonder.  Will the 109th Congress be all but ungovernable, what with the far right feeling their power and wanting a trophy and members going every which way on their pet issues?

      John McCain--he's not who you think he is.

      by Mimikatz on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:43:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Another goodie in the bill (none / 1)

    is that the IRS can use private collection agencies to go after people who owe back taxes. Is there any business left that's not feeding at the federal trough?
    •  American owned Hotels (1.14 / 7)

      although if your last name is Patel, you are entitled to a 10 year tax exemption...

      YYYYAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGG!  And you wonder why every hotel you enter smells like kurry...

      "Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate" John Locke

      by TheGryphon on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:33:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the curry reference was uncalled for (none / 0)

        Would you agree that every Dollar Store smells like hair relaxer?

        Every every flower shop smells like cherry lube?

        How 'bout, those restaurant kitchens. Woo! The scent of those sweaty Mexicans.

        I really expect more from dKos than perpetuating hateful stereotypes. Thanks for reminding me why I stopped coming here.

        Colorado Independent and Unbossed -- pursuing truth over balance.

        by em dash on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:51:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  chill out em-dash (1.37 / 8)

          I work in the hotel business.   Just because its not politically correct doesn't make it less true.  Indians own my industry because they get an unfair tax break.  Because of cultural (cultural, not racial) biases, they tend to put more emphasis on flash than sustance (bigger signs, pretty lobby, less concern with housekeeping and no allotment for scheduled remodeling).  

          This is not because Indians are, pre se, less clean or interested in serving their clients...its because they but different cultural values on appearence vs new linens and matresses than Americans do.  That's why my quip (meant to be snarky) wasn't racist.  I wasn't talking about the color of their skin, but the culture that makes it okay to live in your hotel and cook on a hotplate (illegal in all 50 states) in your office.

          The truth is, if you walk into a hotel that smells like kurry, stay someplace else!

          "Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate" John Locke

          by TheGryphon on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:03:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you remind me... (none / 1)

            of a certain Oklahoman's(?)claim to not being a 'racist' but instead a 'racialist' because your views on blacks are not based on your personal opinions but on the scientific facts of their inferiority.

            try to look objectively at what you just wrote, especially the 'racial vs. cultural' bits, and tell me you don't recognize the bigotry and racism inherent.

            if you don't see it, I'm sorry...

            •  Okay (1.00 / 2)

              I will admit there is an element of anger and frustration in my sentiments above.  I even admit that those are 2 of the 3 main hallmarks of racism.  The THIRD hallmar, however, is totally absent:  irroneously placing blames for your shortcomings on the racial/ethnic group your angry at.  I don't think black men smell funny when they sweat because I secretly want my penis to be as big as theirs.  I don't think chinese people are "inscrutable" because I am secretly sure they are smarter than me.  I KNOW I can run a hotel more effectively in the US than 1st generation immigrants from India who don't understand our culture AT ALL who have nevertheless received an unfair tax advantage that allows them to "front" for big corporations and buy up all the possibly profitable franchises and throught an "old boy" network control the only organs of complaint and redress inside the franchise system.  

              These people really do cook in their offices ... and use curry a lot!  It's not exactly a lie to say that if you smell curry when you enter a hotel, you should stay elsewhere.  Not because the proprietor is Indian (racially I mean) per se, but rather because of what it indicates about their management practices.  And yes, those practices predominate in properties run by 1st genereation Indian immigrants.  The difference is, (and I know the racists say this too) what I am saying is the truth.  And it is based ont on race, but on verifiable cutural factors.

              "Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate" John Locke

              by TheGryphon on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 02:32:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Some details? (none / 0)

                You say:

                I KNOW I can run a hotel more effectively in the US than 1st generation immigrants from India who don't understand our culture AT ALL who have nevertheless received an unfair tax advantage that allows them to "front" for big corporations and buy up all the possibly profitable franchises and throught an "old boy" network control the only organs of complaint and redress inside the franchise system. (Emphasis mine)

                Unfair tax advantage sounds like it'd be unconstitutional. Can you provide details?

                Isn't the legal system up to the task of handling the issues?

              •  A racist, by any other name ... (none / 1)

                ... would smell as putrid.

                I spend approximately 40 hours a week doing volunteer work to preserve and promote historic businesses along Route 66.

                Because of my interest in the old road, I spend at least 30 nights a year in motels. As any Route 66 roadie will tell you, it is a point of pride to spend as much time as possible in small, vintage, mom-and-pop operations and as little time as possible in predictable, corporate-affiliated, cookie-cutter franchises.

                Just off the top of my head, I can list a dozen motels that are beautifully maintained, clean, comfortable, reasonably priced assets to the Mother Road. Rather than bore you with a list, I will simply refer you to my Web site -- http://www.route66motels.com -- if you want to find out more.

                I have never seen an Indian motel owner sell out his property to a developer so a tangible piece of American history and architecture can be torn down and replaced with another Walgreens ... which is more than I can say for some American-born property owners along this old road.

                I'm sorry, but based on my personal experience -- which I would hope is far more extensive than yours; all the truly conscientious motel owners I know don't have much chance to travel, because they're too busy doing their job -- I don't buy into the "if you smell curry ..." line.

                As CSNY once said, "You who are on the road must have a code that you can live by." Here's mine:

                If you smell xenophobic horseshit, leave in a hurry. And I am smelling it at your place.

                I smell it at every motel with a big ol' "AMERICAN OWNED" sign out front. You might attract a few travelers with your racist, me-first, screw-the-other-guy, my-culture-is-better-than-your-culture attitude, but you surely to hell will never see ME darkening your doorway.

                When I see the "AMERICAN OWNED" sign, I know everything I need to know about the owner. And the main thing I know is that the owner is a racist jerk. I'll sleep in the car and shower at the truck stop up the road tomorrow morning before I'll give MY hard-earned money to a racist jerk, thank you very much.

                I consider Jack Patel at the Desert Hills Motel a hero of the road. Many of Tulsa's historic motels have fallen on hard times; far too many have been torn down or altered beyond recognition.

                Jack bought the Desert Hills, remodeled the rooms, established some rules to ensure that the clientele would consist of law-abiding citizens instead of criminals, joined the Oklahoma Route 66 Association, put up a sign welcoming Route 66 travelers, and -- best of all -- had the motel's vintage neon sign restored this summer.

                Jack came to this country, bought a little piece of its history, and restored it so that you and I and everybody else in the United States could enjoy it. He could have bought that property and sold it off to Walgreens or somebody for a lot more money, but he didn't. He preserved it. And in doing so, he ensured that all of us have another tangible link to our history and our heritage. What more do you want from him?

                If your motel isn't good enough to stand on its own merits, your pedigree isn't going to tip the balance in your favor. Leave the xenophobia to Pat Buchanan. It doesn't become a Kossack at all.

                Emily "Sunday John" Priddy
                Tulsa, OK

                "We are all capable of more than we do." -- Mary Baker Eddy

                by sundayjohn66 on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 07:57:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  And I wonder ... (none / 0)

                  If you're so sure your motel is better than the Indian-born owners' motels, why don't you tell us all the name and location of this fine establishment so we can come and see for ourselves what a superior job you're doing, Mr. Coburn?

                  Emily

                  "We are all capable of more than we do." -- Mary Baker Eddy

                  by sundayjohn66 on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 08:00:38 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  One more thing (none / 0)

                    You're snarking about Indian motel owners because they live on the premises. Are you actually suggesting that an absentee landlord is preferable to an owner who lives on-site and is available 24/7 to deal with emergencies if they arise?

                    Before Econolodge and the rest of the cookie-cutter franchise outfits took over the lodging industry, all motels were built with living quarters, either attached to the motel itself or located in a separate structure on the premises, depending on the architectural style of the motel in question.

                    That way, the owner, whose entire income is tied directly to the success or failure of the business, and who shoulders the entire responsibility for that success or failure, was on hand at all times in case his guests needed him.

                    Anybody who's spent much time on the road understands the advantage of this. If a toilet refuses to flush or a light switch stops working or the thermostat gives out and lets the room temperature rise into the 80s (all of which have happened to me at motels over the years,) it's nice to have the ACTUAL BUSINESS OWNER on hand to deal with the situation immediately.

                    A live-in owner is every motel's birthright. It's part of the industry's heritage. Absentee landlords are a later invention, devised by people who are more concerned with the bottom line than with the quality of their business.

                    I don't think it's a coincidence that in most cases, the friendliest and most conscientious hosts are still to be found at those old motels built in the 1940s or 1950s. Business owners, by and large, tend to take a lot more pride in their work than people who "just work here."

                    Emily

                    "We are all capable of more than we do." -- Mary Baker Eddy

                    by sundayjohn66 on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 08:37:25 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  shouldn't this be a liability for him? (none / 0)

    shouldn't we or someone exploit this attempted amendment and tell the people of Oklahoma City that he wanted to let career politicians snoop though their tax returns?

    Would it work?

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:28:55 AM PDT

    •  Maybe it would work, but... (none / 0)

      The major newspaper and top TV station in OKC are owned by the Gaylord family, serious right-wingers from way back. The family maintains tight editorial control over content of the paper and television station, spiking anything they don't like. The Oklahoman has been called the worst newspaper in America by Columbia Journalism Review. It's a joke. Good luck getting a story like this past the editors.

      Oklahomans might not like what Istook did, but they'll probably never hear about it.

      •  Well (none / 0)

        it'll have to get out somehow.

        Billboards
        Grassroots
        Something

        "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

        by RBH on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 10:53:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  FWIW... (none / 0)

        ...this is my email to the Oklahoman:

        I am unable to access your online edition, since your registration page is apparently broken, so I apologize if you have already covered this story.

        As the Senate was working on the $388 billion omnibus spending bill yesterday, a staffer uncovered an amendment that shouldn't have been in there. The amendment, which would have allowed Congressional leaders access to anyone's private IRS returns with no restrictions whatsoever, originated in the House, which passed the 3000+ page bill without detecting the offending amendment.

        I have heard rumors that the author of this insidious rider, which hearkens to the practices of totalitarian countries such as Communist Russia and Nazi Germany, is none other than Oklahoma Rep. Ernest Istook!

        The Oklahoman owes it to its readers to find out why Rep. Istook believes that Congress needs to do more to abuse its power. Also, we deserve to know why Rep. Istook finds it necessary to be so sneaky about turning America into a police state. If he had any guts at all, he would introduce a bill with this issue at the top.

        I hope you will follow up on this story, and I am looking forward to reading the results.

        Also, please let your webmaster know about the registration problem.

        Thank you.

      •  wrong....sigh..... (none / 1)

        Ed Gaylord has been dead for almost two years.  The Gaylords do not own any television station in Oklahoma City.

        The editorial page of the paper is still conservative, which unfortunately, reflects the city and the state, but for the first time in the paper's history, The Oklahoman has a separate editor and publisher, and neither is a member of the Gaylord family.  

        The editorial page no longer influences news coverage, and the editorial page is running letters to the editor reflecting liberal viewpoints.

        The Oklahoman does have a business relationship with the local CBS affiliate KWTV, by which they share a webpage(newok.com) and news gathering resources, but the Oklahoman, in no way, influences the opinion of KWTV, which is owned by the Griffin family, who also owns the Tulsa CBS affiliate KOTV.

        It certainly would not hurt to write LTE's to the Oklahoman, chances are that some will be printed, especially if they receive several. It would be important to observe their guidelines for LTE's regarding length, etc., to increase the chance that your letter would be published.

        Oh, and I should add that that while the CJR article was mostly accurate when it was published, it no longer applies to the paper as there have been numerous changes made since then.

        •  Sigh all you want... (none / 1)

          Ed Gaylord is dead, but his daughter Christy Everest isn't. And I'm sure you're right that she has NO say over the content of the paper... Owners never influence the editorial or news content of their publications. Sheesh.

          And by the way, Ed Kelley, the editor, isn't exactly Ben Bradlee.  I know reporters at The Oklahoman who have had stories spiked recently because they offended the Gaylord family. Anything controversial (not iseologically in line with the Gaylord legacy) gets sent upstairs for review never to be seen again. Staffers, at least those who care about good journalism, remain demoralized and cowed by the paper's right wing editorial slant. Most of the reporters serve as stenographers with amnesia. Printing a couple of letters from "liberals" doesn't change that. And pretending to separate the paper from the Gaylord family doesn't change that, either. Can you say PR gimmick? The Manchester Union has nothing on The Oklahoman.

          So go ahead and kid yourself into thinking The Oklahoman is transformed. Anyone who knows anything about the newspaper business knows that E.L. Gaylord's death didn't change much.

          The real point is that they're unlikely to cover Istook's political assault on personal privacy.

          •  Ummm... (none / 0)


            I'm most likely better informed than you are, like on a daily basis.  I'm also aware of the fellow liberals in my state that are so accustomed to hating the Oklahoman, that they're reluctant to acknowledge the improvements.  I also know that many critics of the Oklahoman don't even see it on a regular basis

            I know of reporters that left under ELG, that came back after his death.  I also can't think of any stories that would be "out there" that would reflect negatively on the Gaylord family.
            Not anything that they would be obligated to report, anyway.

            There is no reason any reporter should should feel "cowed" by the editorial page's conservative slant, since the editorial page and the news side are not connected.  
            They have run articles and editorials critical of republicans, most notably, criticism of Tom Coburn and his bizarre, extreme statements.  Unfortunately, they ultimately endorsed him, but they did do their job, informing the public.

            I also know that they refused to endorse Istook during his 2002 election, when he had a very credible democratic candidate, and as far as I know, they didn't endorse him this time.

            They have written editorials criticizing attacks on privacy, so it certainly would not hurt for people to write letters.

            I know they post progressive letters on a regular basis.

            No, they are no perfect, they are still a conservative paper, but I do know that MUCH HAS CHANGED and that the CJR article no longer applies.

            The sad fact is that we live in the reddest of the red states, and as much as I would like it,
            it wouldn't exactly be prudent for them to switch to a liberal slant.

            •  Better informed? (none / 0)

              Perhaps, if you work at The Oklahoman. But then again if you work there you'd have a vested interest in assuring people (as you have on many left-leaning bulletin boards and blogs) that the paper has somehow changed dramatically.

              As a longtime reporter and editor, I find your assertion that the editorial and news side "are not connected" amusing. Journalists like to think that, but who signs their checks? Who approves their assignments? Who edits their work?

              I worked for Gannett papers, and you had better believe that the editorial positions of the paper(s) and the coverage done by the news side were very much connected. There are people in the newsroom who enforce those connections. They are called executive editors and their allegiance in the modern, corporate newsroom tends to be to their corporate masters and not to any enlightened idea of what journalism should be. Maybe they are conflicted about it, but job security and often bonuses win out in those internal arguments. From what I am told, the editors at The Oklahoman are very much interested in what the Gaylord family would and would not like to see in the news columns of their family paper.

              If you can't think of any stories that were spiked by the Gaylord family, then maybe you're not more informed than I am. I know of several recently. I'll just say that I have a pretty close connection to the Gaylords and have many acquaintances in that newsroom. Maybe we're talking to different people from the newsroom. I'm sure the old guard and the editors have convinced themselves that with E.L. Gaylord gone, things are very different. I can tell you that younger staffers who I talk to beg to differ.

              •  yeah right.... (none / 0)

                You're closely affiliated with the Gaylords and the paper and you thought they owned an OKC television station?  Thats interesting.

                I've been in a position to observe the ups and downs at this paper for over 15 years.  If you want to continue to argue that the grass is red, go ahead, but you're wrong.  There have been major changes and there is a difference in attitude between the younger Gaylords and their
                late father, which is not uncommon in family businesses, something else I have experience with.  The changes started when EK II took a more active role with the paper and appointed Ed Tiner as editor.  The elder Gaylord later fired Tiner, but improvements continued under EK II and then under Christy.

                I never said they were becoming the NY Times, but if you look at improvement as a matter of degrees, they have improved significantly.

                Name some "spiked" stories.  Has anyone else covered them?

  •  What about the *churches*? (none / 0)

    What about churches and church-related groups like the Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, Reed empires?

    How does this affect them?

    I have no problem with revoking the tax exemptions for churches and church-related activities. Let them pay taxes for their political organising and "voter guides" just like the rest of us that contribute to non-tax-exempt PAC's do.

  •  It really is as bad as you think. (4.00 / 6)

    In June 2001 my family took the obligatory pilgrimage to DC with my children. Since I had worked for a US Rep. (now retired) years ago I knew that the Reps. have tickets to tourist spots around DC that make lines move faster and give guided tours. They are available to all constituents so I contacted Istook's office to arrange for our trip.

    One of the "perks" of our contact with Istook's office was a guided tour by a Istookl staffer of the Capitol building. The guy who gave us our tour identified himself as a legislative assistant, he bragged endlessly about his power and influence on the hill and that we were indeed fortunate that he decided to meet constituents that day; he had only presented a tour one other time, according to him. At first we thought he was just blowing stuff out his ass, but later realized he was probably truthful since he is exactly the same kind of idiot as his boss.

    There was one other family on our tour who was obviously Native American. There name was something like Mankiller and they knew the history behind every Indian chief depicted in stone in the rotunda. Despite this our moron guide spewed some of the most despicable racist crap regarding the white man's conquest that I'd ever heard. The Native American family left without a word before the tour was half-finished.

    My husband marveled at the uncharacteristic restraint I showed the Istook staffer, the reasons I didn't let loose on him was I didn't want to embarrass the kids and get kicked out of the building. Also, despite the fact that the guy was an idiot we were touring areas off limits to the general public. Afterwards our family had lunch where I explained to the children that nothing they just heard about American history is true, and that there are lots of morons representing us in Oklahoma.

    "Rupert Murdoch Loves Hillary Clinton"--CBS News headline.

    by Thistime on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:07:03 AM PDT

  •  Mankiller??? (none / 1)

    There name was something like Mankiller...

    That would be interesting if it really was Mankiller, since Wilma Mankiller was chief of the cherokees for several years...

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=Wilma+Mankiller

    •  My computer or Kos is out of wack. (none / 0)

      But I'm sure your comment is in reply to my post below. The other family wasn't influential; they were ordinary Okies like us.  I grabbed the name Mankiller from the air since it is clearly Native American, and their name was just as clearly Native American.

      "Rupert Murdoch Loves Hillary Clinton"--CBS News headline.

      by Thistime on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 01:14:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Istook and OK-5 (none / 0)

    I lived in this district for a while.  In 2002 we ran a pretty strong opponent, and the Daily Jokelahoman actually witheld its customary endorsement of wingers, choosing instead not to endorse.

    Anyway, Istook used to talk a lot about balancing the budget.  But if you look at his voting record in the 107th and 108th Congresses, you'll see that he's just a pawn torn between two masters, the "drown it in the bathtub" Repugs and the "don't tax but still spend" Repugs.

    Oh please God send someone to run against this winger.

    -6.88, -6.72. The truth will set you free. But first it will piss you off.

    by Lucky Ducky on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 11:57:29 AM PDT

    •  I'd only be a semi-carpetbagger... (none / 0)

      ...I have lived in Florida since 2000, but lived in the Oklahoma City area for 12 years, from 1988-2000, mostly in Istook's district.  

      Then again, I don't have the means, name recognition, etc., to run a credible campaign of any sort--I can't even run for the state lege here in Florida--but one can dream.  If nothing else, we could at least make this goofball defend his seat and his votes, that would be something.  

      Andy

      The Alton Weekly Inquirer! News roundup with snark returns on September 5th!

      by AAbshier on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 01:55:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If it weren't a Rethug-controlled Congress... (none / 1)

    I'd say go for it.  But the Rethug control of even the direction of the spin of the earth makes me think we should not support this as a practical matter b/c the Rethugs will crush all investigations of AEI, Cato, etc.

    On the other side, if the Rethugs were honest, I'd be fine with investigating agencies and think tanks.  Why not?  I figure the liberal agencies are virtually powerless and the right-wing think tanks are very powerful and probably swimming in dirty money.  But that would never happen - the Rethugs are just too corrupt.

    I don't want my personal records out there for any reason whatsoever.

    And we're supposed to believe that the Rethugs all of a sudden want to be fiscally conservative?  C'mon...

  •  Question re: Abortion rights (none / 0)

    I know this is off-topic, but I really don't see any other forum talking about the Senate hearings yesterday, so I thought I'd post my question here.

    I had a crappy view of what was going on at the hearing via C-span's online feed, but I did note that there was a provision regarding federal funding to doctors who even give advice regarding abortion... Yes?

    And then Boxer, I believe, wanted a concession to vote on the provision in April, or something like that?

    My question is, what does that mean?  What was the purpose of getting that concession rather than battling it out on the floor like they did the income tax issue?

    Thanks to any who can shed some light.

    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -- Hamlet Act 1, Scene 5

    by LawStudent on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 12:11:54 PM PDT

    •  There is a huge thread (none / 1)

      about the senate hearings in this diary.  There are almost 1000 comments as of now, so it could take forever to wade through.  But I imagine if you do a Ctl+F for "Boxer" or "abortion" or "Weldon" (the name of the ammendment) or "April" you should be able to find some relevant info.

      Also, here's an article about the abortion ammendment [NY Times - login required - sorry].

      And I'll take a shot at answering your Q's myself.  As best as I can tell, once the tax ammendment was discovered, it was obvious the Repubs couldn't vote to pass it without getting reamed in the court of public opinion.  They knew that if the Dems shut down the government because of objection to that portion of the bill, the public could be on the Dem's side.  So it was worth making an agreement with the Dems to pass it now, but they had to give up something for the Dems to allow it.

      The Dems, on the other hand, knew they didn't have the votes to throw out the abortion ammendment and they wouldn't have the public's support if the government was shut down by them objecting to that part of the bill.  So there was no way to prevent the provision from going through.  They knew they could get some kind of concession from the Repubs because of the tax provision, though, and that concession was the April vote.

      You pretty much knew all that, I think.  So, why the April vote?  Recently, there's been discussion on this board that the Republicans are very good at telling their constituents that they're all about values, but then not really doing anything about it.  The theory is, I think, that they can appeal to both pro-choice and anti-choice voters as long as they don't have to cast votes angering either half.  So my guess is that this is an attempt to make the Repubs put their money where half of their mouths are.  Then next election cycle, hopefully their votes can be used against them.  (Especially those that voted "yeah" here and "nay" in April.  Can anybody say "flip-flop?")

      "68% of Republicans don't believe in evolution. On the other hand, only 5% of monkeys believe in Republicans." ---Stephen Colbert

      by spiggz on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 01:00:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks (none / 0)

        So, I take it the April vote will be on just the abortion amendment and nothing else, so no one would be able to spin their yea or nay vote.

        That makes sense.

        Thanks again!

        There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -- Hamlet Act 1, Scene 5

        by LawStudent on Sun Nov 21, 2004 at 01:28:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Right (none / 0)

          Removing the abortion thing was all Boxer's doing (or at least she is the public face for it).  She's the pro-choice gal in the senate-pro-choice is her main issue.  Works great in California.

          The IRS thing just pissed everybody off (including some Republicans such as McCain).

          The deal was amazingly detailed-Boxer got a yes/no vote in the full senate on the abortion thing with not less than two hours debate on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, during daytime hours.  The Senatea passed the bill, but it would be held until the House removes the IRS thing.  Exactly what happens if the House doesn't remove the IRS thing is unclear, but it sounds like the leadership in both parties was going to cram it down the membership's throats to make sure it got removed.

  •  Did all those high-minded, outraged (none / 0)

    Senators shown on C-span last night already know who slipped in that nasty little provision? Such posturing!

    "A full investigation!" "We'll get to the bottom of this!"

    Who found out it was Istook?

    Thank you for your excellent research and a great teaching diary.