Skip to main content

Two questions:

  1. Are we prepared to let that happen?

  2. Who is the only person who can lead an effort to change the score to W out: Democracy, the Winner?

I can answer the first question only for myself, obviously. The answer is No.

In my opinion the only person who can lead all of us to the only victory that matters is Senator Kerry and it is better to make a valiant attempt now rather than deluding ourselves that we are going to get another chance. Because, foul ball, strike 1 was 2000; foul ball, strike 2 was 2002; foul-tip was 2 Nov 2004.

The opponent truly controls the scoreboard, owns the field, and has been showing our Democracy the exit since 9 Dec 2000. We must refuse to leave; we must insist that the third pitch was no different than 1 and 2 -- spitballs.

Thus, Senator Kerry and all of us need to focus on:

The only 'winners' in a franchise of democracy are supposed to be the stakeholders, the citizens, who irrespective of what happened to their candidate, got to swing at legal pitches and didn't have the score changed from 3 to 0, and reported as a mandate.

Senator Kerry cannot truly 'win' no matter what the numbers in OH, or FL, or..., happen to be.

Let's reflect on what would it mean for Senator Kerry to "win" the current "election"?

What exactly would he and our Democracy be winning?

An HR and Senate controlled by Republicans; an intractable Iraq; a close to collapsing debt structure; a fanatical bunch of neocons who'd never let up; a voting system that he'd not be able to reform because of the intransigence he'd face from a Republican controlled Congress; a media that has shown zero interest in finding the truth, in defending the disenfranchised, and on and on.  

He'd get to 2006 and face a disaster that would make Newt's ravage of the Democrats in 1994 look like child's play.

In my opinion, he and Senator Edwards have only one realistic option - declare the current election process invalid, demand a comprehensive audit and commit to one of two outcomes:

  1. Audit shows Bush 'won,' so be it;

  2. Audit shows Senator Kerry and Edwards 'won,' they demand a re-vote using a fair and legitimate system and they abide by the outcome.

I am suggesting that Senator Kerry and Edwards take the type of courageous and selfless action that might just rescue our democracy franchise.

They need to call the spitball for what it was in 2000, and in 2002 and on 2 Nov 2004 -- a systematic attack on our Constitutional rights and our value proposition to all of humanity.

They, and all of us who are dedicated to our Democracy, should not waste another second trying to 'win' something that simply cannot legitimately be 'won'; the other team not only breaks the rules, they control the scoring process, the umpires and the media.  

Senator Kerry and Edwards should lead from a position of selfless service to the franchise.

From that vantage, with that sudden jolt to everyone's attention, they might just convince millions of Americans to shout -- "Halt, prove to us our vote was counted as we intended. And, for all those whom you prevented from voting, let them vote, now."

Rev Jackson got a bit of attention yesterday by saying 'fine with win and lose, but let's count first.'

Just imagine what would happen if Senator Kerry and Edwards said 'we have nothing to win, we have everything to lose if we first do not determine exactly what happened in this election and if we do not insist that those who were disenfranchised are permitted to express their vote before anyone claims to be the Next President of the United States of America.'

And, just imagine the power and credibility they would have if they first said - 'Even if the numbers swing in our favor, the current system is so bankrupt that we will insist on a re-vote, using a fair, legitimate process to ensure that whomever then 'wins' will truly have done so knowing that every eligible voter is confident that they had equivalent access to vote and confidence that their vote was counted exactly as they intended.'

Notes on previous version:

  1. I had first offered a version of the proposal that suggested Senator Kerry and Edwards 'remove themselves from the ballot.' The spirit of why I suggested that move was understood by several who offered comments but most considered it not sufficiently effective or powerful. So, I thought more about how to achieve the goal of sending a selfless, democracy-first message to every citizen and decided they could do that by demanding the audit and, if they had achieved more EC votes than Bush, they would leverage that to achieve a much greater goal - force a re-vote using a system that would be legitimate beyond any reasonable doubt.

  2. I may be very much off the mark here, and for the sake of our Democracy I hope my assessment of the situation is incorrect - on nothing before in my life would I more want to be wrong. But, based on what little I know, if I were Senator Kerry I would see nothing worth 'winning' in the current situation: instead I would seize perhaps the remaining opportunity to save our Democracy.

Thank you.

"Hault, Audit, & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

Originally posted to understandinglife on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 12:35 AM PST.

Poll

Should I find as many ways as possible to send this suggestion to Sen Kerry?

79%23 votes
20%6 votes

| 29 votes | Vote | Results

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  We will all wish they had .... (none)
    ... soon enough if they don't.

    If transparency in elections is an issue that we agree to defer, again, then democracy has been surrendered for the miniscule convenience of avoiding the derision of those who do not respect democracy enough to support transparent elections.

  •  Bad, Bad, Bad (3.75)
    Either we need a revote or we don't. We don't just say well if it looks good for you(in other words if you cheated good enough we didn't catch it) we let you slide. And an audit doesn't cover suppression. I will be grateful if we get an outcome that says Kerry wins. But I won't accept anything short of a full and open revote(with 100% paper trail) as legitmate. This round was phony, phony, phony and should be thrown out just like in the Ukraine.

    "The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Chapter 10.

    by Ranger CN on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 12:43:12 AM PST

    •  A third possible result (none)
      would be a determination that the election process was conducted in a manner that could not have captured the will of the active voters on that day. For instance, people came to the polls, but could not vote. / Who won? / Can't say. / Okay, let's do right for once.
    •  We will get neither, if Kerry does not ACT... (none)
      ....and, I think we can get both. If he does.

      He can take the leverage of a 'win' in systemicaly disenfranchised game and declare it unacceptable and demand a re-vote.

      The path I have described has a potential to convert a grossly unfair farce into a valid re-vote. I do not know any other way to make that happen short of massive civil unrest and I would prefer Senator Kerry to attempt leadership of as orderly a process as possible.

      Thank you for your comments; your concerns are mine and I am trying to find a way to create an outcome now that restores legitmacey to our democracy because if we don't do it now, we likely are only going to face a path of violence to get back into the stadium.

      Peace.

  •  get real (3.20)
    bush won by hook or by crook and nothing will change the result.he has 3 million more votes than
    kerry it`s hard to cry stolen election.just deal with another bush presidency and work to win in 08.
    •  Oh yes ... (none)
      ... let's just all roll over and die. Thank you for this salient bit of commentary.

      Puhlease. "Just deal with it"?

      I think I should post a recipe here but I generally don't cook much.  I almost wish I did, now.

      "Life is to be lived, not controlled, and humanity is won by continuing to play in face of certain defeat." Ellison

      by Bexley Lane on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 04:05:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  put it where your mouth is (none)
      and prove my vote got counted and was not changed.
      I voted on the new machine and am very concerned about the legitamacy.
      if you are just tired of the election don't say discouraging words for those working on your behalf, just don't read any thing to do with it. This man is a stong fighter and should be encouraged not chastised. He is not merely trying to get the vote recounted but the whole voting system retooled.
      I find that easy to support.
  •  Time for Kerry to "report for duty"! (4.00)
    It's very simple:  "It's the irregularities, stupid."

    There are so many irregular occurrences (voter suppression, counting errors, unreliable machines, Sproul,.....) that Kerry should demand a prompt and full audit on  anationawide level.   He should challenge BushCo to support this audit.  After all, if the result showed BushCo won fair and square, their mandate for the the next four years is confirmed, so they should be all four this (LOL).   If BushCo rejects the audit demand, the framing is very simple: "What are they hiding?   What are they afraid of?   Why is the US different from the Ukraine."

    A charge of F R * * * is not needed at this point, but what is needed is a demand for an audit of irregularities.  

    C'mon JFK.   It's time you reported for duty!

    •  Precisely, and the 'duty' that I contend.... (4.00)
      ....,he must perform is one that I've given several weeks of constant thought and have decided, possibly incorrectly, that no matter who the Democrats had nominated, they would all be facing exactly the same outcome as Senator Kerry.

      NO ONE who cares about our Democracy and was willing to 'play the current game' could win. The fix was in by 2000; any Democrat, thereafter, was only going to face spit-balls, biased umpires and a complacent, or worse, media.

      That is the way it is. I'm not making it up -- just look at the 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of comments on sites like DU, dKos, atrios, brad blog, .............. !

      The only choice Senator Kerry and each of us have at this moment is to slump and crawl out of the stadium (perhaps continuing to delude our selves that we can 'reform' before 2006 or 2008) or we can charge the mound and bring the farce to a full HALT.

      Senator Kerry has nothing to 'win' no matter what happens in FL or OH or NV -- those situations are all about understanding that all the Republicans have been throwing are spit-balls and all their umpires have Blackwell 'modus operandi.'

      Senator Kerry can lead us to fully uncover the fix, ban the spit-balls and umpires, and hold a valid election. Whomever wins that election will truly have won. The fact that someone 'loses' in a Democracy is ok as long as they know the franchise is healthy and they have a fair shot at another try.

      Thank you.

      "Halt, Audit, & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

  •  link back to other diaries by this auhtor (none)
    some powerfully damning facts can be found in them. My rec is the North Carolina numbers diary. I have a sugestion, take this out of blogworld and into the streets of your town. I have printed up some excerpts and have handed them out in the area of my state capitol building, this seems fruitful so far in gaining awareness of the issue. any one else have an idea on how to push this?
    we already have been emailing to the media, if that is something you would be interested in doing click on my name, i have posted two diaries containing several hundred Us and foriegn media email addresses.
    Thank you Bob for not giving up even when people seek to shut you up
    •  Thank you for the support and I plan a .... (4.00)
      ....full blitz of Senator Kerry, Senator Edwards, Congress and the media starting shortly after 4pm, EST today.

      I've yet to see any reasonable alternative to what I am proposing. Since 9 Dec 2000, we have had no chance of playing a fair game in the current version of the electoral system.

      NO Democrat would have gotten any closer to a 'win' than Senator Kerry -- because, by all current indications, he likely is the 'winner' and yet we all know what we 'hear and read from the media,' and from most on the internetS -- move on, get over it, sore loser, next time..... . And my response is -- NO, NO, NO.....

      Senator Kerry and Edwards need to call it for what it is. They must force an audit and then force a re-vote that uses a legitimate mechanism that enables equivalent access of every eligible voter to cast a ballot and an independently observed and verified accounting of those ballots.

      Anything less and they really will have lost and they will have lost our franchise and our stature as a trusted partner to any person or group seeking democracy.

      "Halt, Audit, & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

  •  We need to move on (none)
    I have as many doubts about the legitimacy of Bush's win as anyone, and I have major worries about how to protect our future votes.

    But it is dreaming to think that Kerry will get a major revote or recount.  

    Kerry will be far more effective in the Senate fighting legislation bill by bill to try to protect what freedoms we have for the next 2-4 years.

    Kerry lost.  Fairly or unfairly.  No one is going to give us a "redo."

    Any recount efforts or vote investigations must be done by third parties, NOT by Kerry.  It would only look like sour grapes.  The only result would be more ill will toward Democrats right when we need to be preparing for the future.

    I'm as depressed as anyone about the results.  But  we have to move on.  There are battles ahead, and ahead.

    Now: the real fight begins!

    by marjo on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 09:41:44 AM PST

    •  then (4.00)
      lets focus on understandinlife's main objective of over hauling the voting system. If we all are going to vote in the same national election it should be a uniform system that is used
    •  Thank you for your comments... (4.00)
      ...however, as unpleasant as it is for many to admit, the battle is now.

      What I am proposing is not Senator Kerry 'asking for anything.'

      What I am proposing is that Senator Kerry and all who willingly, eagerly are prepared to do battle with him, DO what needs to be done, now.

      Halt the game.

      Send groups of experts into every location connected to the scoreboard and audit exactly what happened, as comprehensively as possible.

      Expose the umpires for what they are.

      Force the 'free press' to serve the Constitution that protects its very existence and stop them from treating our Democracy as some flag-waving, valuless episode of alice in wonderland.

      Then, and only then, make a decision how to proceed.

      If you think Senator Kerry or any other honorable member of Congress has any chance of effecting legislative reform of our electoral system in the next 2 years, I urge you to take a careful look at what was attempted and summarily blocked in the past 4 years. I urge you to reflect on the fact that by 2006 SCOTUS will be so entrenched in the service of a neocon, tyrannical agenda that our current Constitution will be rendered even more meaningless than what was done to it on 9 Dec 2000 by Scalia.

      The next pitch is either a spitball with the score determined no matter what Senator Kerry does, or we all charge the mound and take the ball away from the pitcher and halt the game.

      Peace.

      "Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

      •  agree to disagree on... (none)
        what the immediate emphasis should be.

        Sure, Sen. Kerry isn't going to be able to do much to halt the GOP from hurtling off a cliff and taking this country with it.  I don't disagree with you at all on your anger.

        I just don't think the chances of Kerry leading THIS charge is going to be effective.  I don't think he would do this since he hasn't done it thus far.  I am waiting for the other investigations of fraud and error state-by-state in the hope that something can be PROVEN that can help us next time.

        Yes, I agree, we must fight to protect our vote.  That's what I told my senators and congressman shortly after the election.  I just don't think anyone in this country has the power to turn back this last election and start over again.  I'm trying to be practical and choose battles.  I think expecting Kerry to rescue Nov. 2 from the toilet is not going to happen.  I'm pessimistic or realistic.  either one, you pick.

        Now: the real fight begins!

        by marjo on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 01:03:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Please accept, marjo, that I respect your... (4.00)
          ...opinion and you have stated it clearly.

          I happen to be the type of person who refuses to look beyond or around crisis. I also don't make'um up; what we've got in front of us is a Constitutional crisis even more severe than the one faced on the day that Jefferson Davis arose and announced to the Senate the secession of Mississippi from the Union.

          I'm calling what has been done to our democracy a malignant travesty, first clearly evident in the 2000 National Election. If we don't stop that malignant process, in my opinion, we've defaulted to a fatal outcome for the franchise. It will be exceptionally challenging even if Senator Kerry is willing to call halt and audit, now. If he is not willing to lead a demand for accountability and a refusal to certify anyone as winner until that accounting is complete, I dread the scale of the challenge we will most certainly encounter after inauguration day 2005.

          Our franchise has been hijacked; do we rescue it or hope for it to be returned unharmed?

          I opt for the rescue mission. Unfortunately, I don't have the stature or resources to lead it. If I did, I wouldn't be writing this note to you; I'd have already been doing it [since 7 Nov 2000 <-- that is not a typo].

          Peace.

          "Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

    •  Party before country (4.00)
      10 generations of Americans in my family have fought so that my daughter's vote will count.

      THIS is the only battle that matters.  This is the only thing we have been fighting for for 400 years.

      My God!  This is democracy itself.

      I'm sorry, but I find your "Party before country" attitude appalling.

      "...And bunnies would dance in the streets, and we would find life on Mars." -Peter Singer, Brookings Institution

      by zentiger on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 11:03:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I assure you, as I hope you realize, ..... (none)
        ...I am fighting for your daughter, and for as many and more generations after us, as those before -- and I realize that we will only deliver if we stop the farce, now.

        I will post the letter that I intend to fax to Senator Kerry shortly after 430pm EST today -- you will see exactly what my commitment is to Senator Kerry, you, your daughter, and all our fellow citizens, stated as clearly as I possibly can, in the last sentences of that letter.

        Peace; persistence -- we shall prevail.

        •  Letter to Senator Kerry, on official letterhead... (4.00)
          ....signed & fax'd to both his Capitol Hill Office and his Boston Office:

          Honorable Senator John F. Kerry
          US Senate
          BY FAX: 202.224-8525 & 617.248-3870

          30 November 2004

          Dear Senator Kerry,

          Subject: W 2: Democracy O-ver ?

          I ask you two questions:

          1.    Are we prepared to let that happen?

          2.    Who is the only person who can lead an effort to change the score to W out: Democracy, the Winner?

          I can answer the first question only for myself, obviously. The answer is No.

          In my opinion the only person who can lead all of us to the only victory that matters is you, Senator Kerry. I urge you to realize that fact and the fact that it is better to make a valiant attempt now rather than deluding ourselves that we are going to get another chance. Because, foul ball, strike 1 was 2000; foul ball, strike 2 was 2002; foul-tip was 2 Nov 2004, and we can't wait for the next pitch for several obvious reasons.

          Our opponent truly controls the scoreboard, owns the field, and has been showing our Democracy the exit since 9 Dec 2000. We must refuse to leave; we must insist that the third pitch was no different than 1 and 2 -- spitballs.

          Thus, Senator Kerry we all need to focus.  

          We must assert that the only 'winners' in a franchise of democracy are supposed to be the stakeholders, the citizens, who irrespective of what happened to their candidate, got to swing at legal pitches and didn't have the score changed from 3 to 0, and reported as a mandate.

          Senator Kerry you cannot truly 'win' no matter what the numbers in OH, or FL, or..., happen to be.

          Why do I say that without reservation -- well, let's reflect on what would it mean for you to "win" the current "election"?

          What exactly would you and our Democracy be winning?

          An HR and Senate controlled by Republicans; an intractable Iraq; a close to collapsing debt structure; a fanatical bunch of neocons who'd never let up; a voting system that you would not be able to reform because of the intransigence you would face from a Republican controlled Congress; a media that has shown zero interest in finding the truth, in defending the disenfranchised, and on and on.  

          You and your fellow patriots would arrive at 2006 and face a disaster that would make Newt's ravage of the Democrats in 1994 look like child's play.

          In my opinion, you and Senator Edwards have only one realistic option - declare the current election process invalid, demand a comprehensive audit and commit to one of two outcomes:

          1.    Audit shows Bush 'won,' so be it;

          2.    Audit shows you 'won,' then you demand a re-vote using a fair and legitimate system and you abide by the outcome.

          I am suggesting that you and Edwards take the type of courageous and selfless action that might just rescue our democracy franchise.

          You need to call the spitball for what it was in 2000, and in 2002 and on 2 Nov 2004 -- a systematic attack on our Constitutional rights and our value proposition to all of humanity.

          You, along with all of us who are dedicated to our Democracy, should not waste another second trying to 'win' something that simply cannot legitimately be 'won'; the other team not only breaks the rules, they control the scoring process, the umpires and the media.  

          Senator Kerry you must lead from a position of selfless service to the franchise.

          From that vantage, with that sudden jolt to everyone's attention, you will have earned the moral and patriotic authority required to convince millions of Americans to shout -- "Halt, prove to us our vote was counted as we intended. And, for all those who were prevented from voting, let them vote, now.

          Rev Jackson got a bit of attention yesterday by saying 'fine with win and lose, but let's count first.'

          Just imagine what would happen Senator if you said 'we have nothing to win, we have everything to lose if we first do not determine exactly what happened in this election and if we do not insist that those who were disenfranchised are permitted to express their vote before anyone claims to be the Next President of the United States of America.'

          And, just imagine the power and credibility you would have if you stood before all the Nation, at Independence Hall in Philadelphia and committed pledged yourself to this commitment:

          'Even if the numbers swing in our favor, the current system is so bankrupt that we will insist on a re-vote, using a fair, legitimate process to ensure that whomever then 'wins' will truly have done so knowing that every eligible voter is confident that they had equivalent access to vote and confidence that their vote was counted exactly as they intended.'

          Senator Kerry history is happening and it is a broad, black stroke being painted over our Constitution, our heritage and our credibility -- if you do not lead now, in a way no less dramatic and courageous as the Founders, as Lincoln and as FDR, our franchise is over.

          I will be there next to you; I will take as many hits as I can withstand to protect you; I will die at your side and, at 57 years of age and having witnessed as an MD exactly what death is, I assure you, these are not idol or idealistic words. This is a commitment from someone who fully recognizes that we either halt the next pitch or what we call "America" is no longer a democracy franchise.

          Awaiting orders, Senator Kerry.
          xxxxxxxxxxxxx

          "Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

          •  Quixotic Quests Can Be Good Politics (none)
            The one part of your piece I disagree with is that nothing would be won by "winning" the election for Kerry by overturning the results in Ohio.

            True: Electoral desasters in 2006 would appear likely, but they aren't certain. Certain under this scenario is only one thing: control of the executive branch by an individual who is not a confirmed fascist. That may seem little, but in the current situation, it is a heck of a lot.

            Dealing smartly in probabilties is always tricky in politics and "smart" dealers in probablities don't have a good record of succeeding. Splendid example: Mario Cuomo who chose the "safety" of his governorship over a seemingly quixotic run for the presidency in 1992. Just two years after he had to watch Clinton win the White House, he ended up losing Albany to the next quixotic candidate, George Pataki. Once that had happened his mystique evaporated and the previously "likely" seat on the Supreme Court eluded him as well.

            •  I like your analysis and I agree.... (none)
              ...that "control of the executive branch by an individual who is not a confirmed fascist. That may seem little, but in the current situation, it is a heck of a lot."

              I, also, think the strategy I have proposed would land Senator Kerry in that Executive Office with a massive amount of bi-partisan support in a re-vote. But, I also think he and the franchise would both be in a much stronger position, irrespective of who one the re-vote, if they won based on each voter having equivalent access to cast their vote and solid verification that their vote was recorded as they intended it to be.

              While at first, what I propose may appear 'quixotic' I think you may grow to realize how pragmatic and powerful a platform it creates for Senator Kerry to attack the crisis.

              For starters, all attempts to spin it as some 'power grab by a sore loser, blahblabhblah' could be crushed with 'No, an elected official of the US Government attempting to ensure that every citizen knows if and how their vote was counted.'

              Followed by 'And, pay attention: Senator Kerry will only accept the office if he wins a re-vote.'

              Peace and Thank you for your comments.

              •  Question (none)
                As I was away from the net for a week in the wilds of Arkansas, I have a question: has the vote theft issue made it into the center column here, or is there still nothing?
                •  One of markusd's diaries was promoted... (none)
                  ....to center column -- on OH voter disenfranchisement and the Cobb et al efforts.

                  But, the recommended list has had at least one and as many as four "we've got a problem Houston" diaries around the clock.

                  Catching a hijacked democracy when the hijackers have at least a 4 year head-start takes some powerful afterburners.....but we'll succeed.

                  Peace.

                  •  Thanks (none)
                    Success is relative.

                    My Wall Street friends as of now all refuse to accept the possibility of vote fraud. The minimum that needs to be achieved is establishing beyond doubt in the middle-of-the-road consciousness that the presidential election was rigged for the second time in a row.

                    Much more is possible (and needed), but even this minimal result would make our efforts worthwhile.

        •  Thank you, I DO realize... (none)
          Ms. or Mr. understandinglife,

          Thank you for your personal attention, and I want to assure you that I am in total agreement with you, and further, have been (silently) supporting your efforts.

          I have been, as best as I can, following yours, and markusd's diaries, as well as all the other vote problem threads.  I have (silently) embarked on my own media and personal efforts, with data and inspiration you have provided, as well as my own research and efforts.

          So, know that I know that you were already fighting for my daughter, and I applaud you with a tear in my eye.

          I am fighting to keep my hope for your wish of "persistence --" and that "we shall prevail,"

          Because if we don't we will have no peace -- that much is guaranteed.

          Keep up the good fight.

          -Gbk

          "...And bunnies would dance in the streets, and we would find life on Mars." -Peter Singer, Brookings Institution

          by zentiger on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 02:13:59 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you and I assure you.... (none)
            ....that I have continued to focus on the current incomplete national election and, as we learn more and more about how flawed it is, have pushed for remedy rather than letting it stand.

            All the best.

            Peace.

            "Did Bush Know?"

      •  if you're talking to me (none)
        I would never put party before country.

        But I would put fruitful effort before wasted effort.

        I'm all for fighting as all get-out for the next vote to be irreproachable, and that's what I wrote to my congressman and senators shortly after the election.

        I am saying, be practical.  that's all.  No way is Bush going to step down.  No way is there going to be a revote.  No way is Kerry going to put himself out as a target now when he and the rest of the country and media are moving on.

        we ARE on the same side here, right?  I want my son's vote to count.  I take this fascist administration VERY seriously.  I just don't agree that this is the way to use our energy just now.

        if that appalls you, fine.

        Now: the real fight begins!

        by marjo on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 12:57:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I'm sorry, I am talking to you. (none)
          I would never put party before country.

          But I would put fruitful effort before wasted effort.

          I'm all for fighting as all get-out for the next vote to be irreproachable, and that's what I wrote to my congressman and senators shortly after the election.

          Did you ask them to make sure that this year's vote was irreproachable?  If not, are you certain that this year's vote was irreproachable?  If not, what on Earth can you expect to say, or your congresspeople to say about the "vote" in 2006?

          I am saying, be practical.  that's all.  No way is Bush going to step down.  No way is there going to be a revote.  No way is Kerry going to put himself out as a target now when he and the rest of the country and media are moving on.

          I am being practical.  If the vote this year didn't matter, then nothing else I or any political organization (save the Repulican Party) can do matters at all.  Not one whit. I don't give a good goddamn about a revote or whether or not Kerry wants to be a 'target', or even who the Hell won.  And I care even less about the rest of the country and least of all about the media.  I care about my franchise.  That's all.  That is my right, not a Government- or Party- given priviledge. It is my right goddamnit!

          * If John Kerry doesn't care about the franchise of the American people, even at the risk of political death, then he didn't deserve my vote in the first place, and I can assume that he didn't care about said vote, and that vote might as well not have been counted.  I have never, ever felt as cravenly betrayed by a politician as when I heard JK's concession speech.

          we ARE on the same side here, right?  I want my son's vote to count.  I take this fascist administration VERY seriously.  I just don't agree that this is the way to use our energy just now.

          Good God.  Even Hitler was legitimately elected.  Do you have no issue as to whether your countrymen and women have elected facsism by choice, or had it ripped from their hearts and bloodied hands, and from the innocent futures of our children?

          If we are still a democracy, what better way to spend your energy on your son's behalf than to be sure that you had a part in choosing his future?  Or are you willing to cede his future to the fascists already just because you don't want to rock the boat?

          And finally, whose energy, on whose behalf?  The American People (your son & my daughter, who'll I'll venture to say have no party affiliation) or the Democratic Party, who has failed miserable to oppose the most concerted attack on the very fundamental structures of the United States Constitution itself?

          If your answer is anything at all other than, "The American People", then no, I'm sorry, we are NOT on the same side, and I do not believe that you want your son's vote to count if you do not want to be sure that his parent's vote counted.  "Our" energy is wasted restructuring the Democratic Party; if the votes don't count, the message doesn't matter.

          if that appalls you, fine.

          My dear Sir or Madam, if your energy, or that of dozens on this site with the same attitude, is better spent telling defenders of your franchise to "move on" for the good of the Democratic Party, or any political party, then yes,

          That appalls me.

          "...And bunnies would dance in the streets, and we would find life on Mars." -Peter Singer, Brookings Institution

          by zentiger on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 01:57:40 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  fyi 'zentiger'.... (none)
            ...just thought I'd post these thoughts here and share them with you. All the best to you and your family. The truly hard work begins tomorrow.

            +++++++++++++++++++++++++

            In a few hours, a transition of awareness will occur throughout our Nation and the world.

            Suddenly, an exchange of thoughts, facts, analyses, activism and considerable passion shared among a few of our fellow citizens will become a topic with large-scale public awareness.

            When NBC and MSNBC indicated they would be covering Rep Conyers' "forum" it's obvious that those who watch c-span and pacifica radio are going to be joined by many, many more of their fellow citizens as well as a world-wide audience. I doubt that by tomorrow at 10am EST, CNN and the other broadcast networks will fail to appear at the Rayburn building.

            What they will all learn is that our Nation faces a massive Constitutional crisis and that 'horse isn't going back into the barn.'

            Not since Jefferson Davis gave his good-bye speech to the US Senate has this Nation faced what it will confront tomorrow.

            I hope Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards have been preparing since long before 2 Nov 2004 for what will now unwind.

            I hope many others have been preparing themselves for the roles they will have to contribute to the saving of our franchise of democracy.

            As the editors, W. Leon Smith and Don M. Fisher, of the Lone Star Iconoclast stated as well as it will ever need to be:

            "The time is now to draw a line in the sand -- to give not one inch, one millimeter, one vote toward the cause of skewing this election. This recount, no matter the outcome, conducted properly, is a necessity for democracy to prevail. Without it, America can never trust another election."

            We are at war, a war declared by President Bush, and we have witnessed a major attack on the cornerstone of our Constitutional rights as citizens by members of President Bush's party, perhaps with the knowledge of the President.

            That same Constitution has cold, harsh comment on any effort to undermine our Nation during a war. Mr Bush and his colleagues face serious consequences if we the people act on our responsibilities to that Constitution, draw that line in the sand, and budge not one inch until the systematic disenfranchisement of our fellow citizens is remedied.

            We have but hours before our Nation and the world is brought to full attention to the Constitutional crisis of 2 Nov 2004.

            I'm prepared to do whatever is required to restore and protect our Constitution.

            Peace.

            •  Letter of 9 Dec 2004: sent to .... (none)
              Senators Feingold, Feinstein, Nelson, Murray, Cantwell, Byrd, Kennedy, Boxer and others and to Congressman Conyers and Congresswoman Pelosi:

              The Honorable Russ Feingold
              United States Senate
              Washington, DC 20515
              BY FAX 202.224.1280 (3 pages)

              9 December 2004

              Dear Senator Feingold,

              I am very proud of Congressman Conyers leadership as evidenced yesterday. He proved, once again yesterday, that he is among the few who have the courage to attempt to defend our franchise of democracy from an insidious, persistent and, if we don't stop the process now, successful undermining of the most critical aspect of our Constitution -- we the people determine the more perfect union by our ability to be our government, by our vote as to who that government is.

              I urge you to stand with Congressman Conyers and call a halt to the current election process. It is not valid. No one has won anything. The people are about to lose everything -- because of those who were systematically suppressed in casting their ballot, and, even more harmfully, by the reality that at least 30 % of those who voted have no way of knowing if their vote was counted as they intended.

              I have included a letter I sent to Senator Kerry yesterday by Fax and I plead with you to go to Senator Kerry and urge him to recognize that we cannot wait; that tomorrow dawns on a totalitarian "USA," if today we do not stop those who threaten our American franchise of Democracy.

              I have asked Senator Kerry, as I am asking you and Congressman Conyers and all your colleagues -- halt this invalid process and prove to the world that we have recognized a serious deficiency in our American franchise of democracy, we are going to repair it, and then we the people will know, whether we agree with the outcome of an election, we know that the process was fair and able to be validated beyond any reasonable doubt.

              Together, we shall prevail.

              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

              Honorable Senator John F. Kerry
              US Senate
              BY FAX: 202.224-8525 & 617.248-3870

              8 December 2004

              Dear Senator Kerry,

              I am enclosing a message I sent to a few close allies in our effort to prevent the American franchise of Democracy from being destroyed; the fate it now faces if you do not act.

              Senator Kerry, as a continuation of the analogy in my correspondence to you of 30 November 2004, the bull-pen is not where you belong. It has been quite appropriate for you to have been in that bull-pen, warming up for the past 5 weeks, but we are in the bottom of ninth inning, the bases are loaded and if you don't come into the game and out the next batter, it's over.

              I waited to send this to you until the historic Conyers' "forum" completed:

              ________________
              In a few hours, a transition of awareness will occur throughout our Nation and the world.

              Suddenly, an exchange of thoughts, facts, analysis, activism and considerable passion shared among a few of our fellow citizens will become a topic with large-scale public awareness.

              When NBC and MSNBC indicated they would be covering Rep Conyers' "forum" it's obvious that those who watch c-span and pacifica radio are going to be joined by many, many more of their fellow citizens as well as a world-wide audience. I doubt that by tomorrow at 10am EST, CNN and the other broadcast networks will fail to appear at the Rayburn building.

              What they will all learn is that our Nation faces a massive Constitutional crisis and that 'horse isn't going back into the barn.'

              Not since Jefferson Davis gave his good-bye speech to the US Senate has this Nation faced what it will confront tomorrow.

              I hope Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards have been preparing since long before 2 Nov 2004 for what will now unwind.

              I hope many others have been preparing themselves for the roles they will have to contribute to the saving of our franchise of democracy.

              As the editors, W. Leon Smith and Don M. Fisher, of the Lone Star Iconoclast stated as well as it will ever need to be:

              "The time is now to draw a line in the sand -- to give not one inch, one millimeter, one vote toward the cause of skewing this election. This recount, no matter the outcome, conducted properly, is a necessity for democracy to prevail. Without it, America can never trust another election."

              We are at war, a war declared by President Bush, and we have witnessed a major attack on the cornerstone of our Constitutional rights as citizens by members of President Bush's party, perhaps with the knowledge of the President.

              That same Constitution has cold, harsh comment on any effort to undermine our Nation during a war. Mr Bush and his colleagues face serious consequences if we the people act on our responsibilities to that Constitution draw that line in the sand, and budge not one inch until the systematic disenfranchisement of our fellow citizens is remedied.

              We have but hours before our Nation and the world is brought to full attention to the Constitutional crisis of 2 Nov 2004.
              I'm prepared to do whatever is required to restore and protect our Constitution.

              Peace.
              _
              ____________

              Senator Kerry we need you to lead all of us as we fight to save our Democracy. If you don't we may still succeed but the task will be all the much harder. But, the battle is now, not sometime in the future.

              In your service,

              xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

  •  this is essential (4.00)
    Before any talk about candidates, framing of issues, fundraising, etc. there MUST be a guarantee of universally fair and accountable elections.  Remember Stalin's quote about who counts the vote.  We are not going to motivate the base, reach out to others, or do anything but tilt at windmills, until people are assured that they will be able to vote without harassment, and that their vote will be counted. Otherwise people will just dispair and drop out of the political process altogether. You're not going to motivate people to get involved if they feel the election is already rigged against them.  What the rethugs have succeeded in doing is instilling a mindset of learned helplessness on our side.  Accepting this "election" and it's results as presented by the rethug party will just make that permanent.  
  •  This is (none)
    a great idea. Do you think it might get more of a response if a lot of us signed it.  More like a petition maybe.  Just a thought.
  •  tried to get this out last year (4.00)
    everyone worried about the candidates..not the voting itself

    I am not a web designer..but i did want to create a page with some info. so i did the domain thing, created a page, then ran out of time to do much else. I was trying to get volunteers for fl precincts to do foot traffic counts using handheld counters to compare to precinct totals. Of course, the early voting #s  made it difficult, since they didn't include per precinct totals. So the numbers would never have matched up anyway.

    the Ukraine appears to be a truer democracy than
    what we have left in our own country. Our checks and balances are virtually gone.

    I keep thinking
    four more years of sneers

    the reality
    Bush/Cheney 2004: Because destroying the country
    is an 8 year job.

    republican hypocracy has condemned God and Jesus to be as Dead as our Democracy

    by demnomore on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 12:36:44 PM PST

  •  To 'opinionated, 'dmac,' & 'demnomore'... (none)
    ....please look up-thread and you will see the letter I have fax'd to Senator Kerry's DC & Boston offices.

    I wanted it delivered to his offices before I responded to your comments.

    I think the contents of the letter are the very best response I can offer to each of you as well as the commitment in the last two sentences.

    'dmac' if you wish to post on a website or make any use of the letter, you are free to do so with only one restriction, do not alter it; post it as is. I have zero pride of authorship so you can post it "from an American citizen."

    You can also cut and paste various sentences and paragraphs and use freely. It's just that if anyone wants to post the letter in it's entirety, I would prefer it not be edited in any way.

    I will inform everyone on dKos if I receive a response. Hopefully, the response will be that Senator Kerry soon steps to the front and demands a halt to the farce and launches an audit and a reformation of our electoral process before anyone attempts to declare themself the representative of our franchise.

    Thank you & Peace.

    "Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

    •  I wish (none)
      it could happen, and if someone lays out concrete steps for me, I can determine what I can put into the effort.  However, Kerry's time was Nov. 3.  He had promised a full count and should have insisted then and there.  This proposition would have been a nifty proclamation to start the ball rolling - it would actually be "activism", which the now 60-year old and insanely wealthy John should remember.  My fear is that he's rolled over to keep the system moving, shuttling us toward God knows what, and I'm anxious.  He's insulated, and I'm anxious.  Plus, even some (many?) Dems would balk at this, and no Reds would ever accept a "do-over," which is what they'd call it.  And, of course, I can see Rush's cheeks flap as he intones "the ultimate flip-flop."  Tell me how to get the Mo going, and I'll do it.  Starting with e-mailing the letter.

      "Whatever it is, I'm against it." -- Groucho

      by moltar on Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 03:49:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  First, I suggest you read... (none)
        ....the just-released NY Times editorial:

        http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/30/opinion/30tue1.html?hp

        In six paragraphs, they described a sea-change, an unprecedented series of events and consequences in a fledgling democracy.

        The people did it. The people demanded a re-vote. The people, enabled by Exit Polls and expert observers, made it stick -- "no way dude could those ballot tallies be correct - we are doing this whole thing over."

        Putin's interference; all the pronouncements of Yanukovich and his supporters [folk who are just as venomnous as our 'reds']; threats of splitting the country; partial re-vote; .....; all of it did not withstand the will of the liberal opposition who had the courage to call 'halt' and clearly have the stamina to not quit until democracy prevails.

        So, I specifically suggest you spread the letter far and wide. Call Senator Kerry and Senator Edwards offices and ask that they step to the front of the line and lead. Contact your Federal and State Congressional representatives, by sending them letter and cover letter and ask each of them to contact Senator Kerry and request he lead. Contact everyone in the media [papers, tv, radio, blogs, filmmakers, actors, musicians, producers, etc.] whom you hae any regard -- contact them.

        And, like I've stated, if I had the stature or the resources to lead the drive, myself, I would do it. I am not afraid of the consequences of taking these actions. I am terrified of the consequences if we don't.

        Thank you.

  •  When Smart is Stupid (4.00)
    The chances of 'success' are irrelevant here.

    It is true that the same glum, by-now all too familiar, media-generated mind-control cloud has settled over the US again and popular support for an election challenge may never materialize. We nonetheless owe it to ourselves not to be "smart".
    We cannot sit back and count on the system to self-correct. This collective attitude of ours is precisely what brought about the current predicament to begin with.  
    We are part of the system and it is our civic duty to demand what is self-evidently right. If Kerry doesn't openly challenge the election, then that will be his failure, not ours. If we don't push him to challenge it however, then that is our failure and ours alone .

    Writing off the election and starting to strategize for 2006, may avoid heart-break right now and may look "smart" right now, but it will look like a tragically lost opportunity in 2006
     --- just like submissively accepting the 2000 results looks like a tragically lost opportunity today.

  •  W 2 (none)
    I agree completely with pretty much the entire piece.

    FWIW I can't think of anything that would give me more desire to return to the States, and quickly, than, "Revolution in the streets."

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site