Daily Kos

Citizens of Ohio. Please Petition for a Recount

by BrooklynBoy

Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:11:16 PM PDT

In Ohio, by law, five citizens per county, only five, have the right to call for a recount.

 Randy Rhodes, on a screed all afternoon on Wednesday, kept arguing that we, the citizens, are now the only check and balance left. To play that out, citizens should fight this election result. Our leaders won't (and as I said, I can understand why), so why can't we?

Why shouldn't we? Its our election, its our democracy.

Email Ohio Dem Chair Dennis White: dennis@ohiodems.org

and ask the Ohio Dems to organize 5 citizens per county to call for a recount. it is their legal right. and their duty to the disenfranchised.

Tags: (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 218 comments

  •  Thank you for posting again... (4.00 / 2)

    .....have recommended...

    by understandinglife on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:09:43 PM PDT

    •  recommended (4.00 / 4)

      i am not counting (sorry) on a change in results.

      but as a citizen, i need to know that this system isn't rigged.

      i need to have faith in the electoral process.

      if i don't i won't vote.  i won't even care.  & i won't live here.

      a democracy w/o the trust of it's citizens is not going to survive.

      for the love of god & to get all these people who believe it was stolen (& those of us who wonder) to relax, COUNT ALL THE VOTES

      kerry & edwards owe us this.  & edwards better finish this if he wants it to not bite him politically later.

      Texas Kaos Take Back Texas

      Bush, What Price Did You Pay?

      by krazypuppy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:18:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed. (4.00 / 9)

        By the way, however, I think people are dramatically overestimating the significance of Kerry's "concession".  "Conceding" the election has no legal significance.  If recounts show he won, then he won... he can "un-concede" without much difficulty.  He made a smart and classy speech, and the door is still open to do whatever recounts and investigations are necessary to ensure the vote counts are, indeed, accurate.

        And quite frankly, it's best if the Democrats in Ohio and Florida do that on their own, without being pushed by Kerry (HINT HINT).  Kerry can take a step back, concede, and assume the election is over.  If it proves, two weeks from now, that Ohio has screwed up and that the certified total really does change the outcome -- which, everyone should realize, is very, very unlikely given these overall numbers -- then Kerry wins, whether he has "graciously conceded" or not.

        Personally, I do think there was quite a bit of fraud, but I don't think it was enough to change the outcome.  Florida is more odd, and I'd like to see recounts there perhaps even more than in Ohio.  Not because I think it would change the outcome, but because we need to have evidence that the system is working.

        There is no possible reason not to recount the votes.  After 2000, it would be a good exercise, either way, in determining whether the problems have been "fixed".

        But in-state Dems need to get off their asses and do it, and not wait for Kerry/Gore/Dean whoever to swoop down and rescue them.  For nationwide political reasons, they can't do that right now.

        by Hunter on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:44:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think, though (none / 1)

          that deal with "spoiled" votes wouldn't be automatic.  Someone has to take some kind of action to get the votes that were "spoiled" and therefore rejected looked at.  That automatic process only has to do with the provisional and absentee ballots.  It doesn't have anything to do with arguments that machines didn't tally the ballots correctly.

          by LowellR on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:24:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, it's not automatic. (none / 0)

            My understanding of Ohio law -- which is limited to what more knowledgable folks have been telling me -- is that it takes five people per county to request a recount, but the scope of the recount -- whether they would run it through the machines again, or hand-recount -- is unclear.  We need someone to clear that legal distinction up.

            But we need some Ohioans to step up and file the challenge, either way.  And so far I'm not hearing anyone has, which is just silly.

            by Hunter on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:38:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Re: Ohio dems (none / 1)

          Why in the hell do you think every statewide office in Ohio is held by a Republican?  

          The Ohio party leadership has been asleep since Verne Riffe left.  

          That's why everyone in the US had better contribute time or money to the Jerry Springer for governor campaign.  Hey, if Arnold can win so can Jerry.  He is actually a very astute politician and I think he can win.  But he needs help from around the country.  

          Forget working on the Senate in O6.  If you want to help this country you had better get a democratic spine in Ohio.

          I hated Bush before it was cool.

          by daveriegel on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:50:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The results will change. (none / 0)

        There are obvious errors in Bush's favor in the vote counts. There are 3600-5000 votes for Bush that are obviously errors (4285 votes for Bush in a precinct where 635 votes were cast, for starters). My diary on this is here.

        Anyone can blog local races. Anyone can raise money.

        by bonobo on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:49:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  WRONG reading of the law (none / 1)

      Candidates for an election have to call for a recount. 5 or more citizens can call for a recount about an ISSUE or QUESTION (think proposition). You want to get a recount. Talk to the Dems or to David Cobb in the Green party, but your emails won't work.

      by 4corners on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:35:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  unfortunately (none / 0)

        David Cobb was a write in - not on the ballot in Ohio, so I;m not sure how much help he would be in this particular instance, although I'm sure he'd be happy to halp as much as possible.

        by green in brooklyn on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:11:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Find an Elector (4.00 / 2)

        You are correct - only a candidate can do initiate a recount and get the undervoted ballots checked for hanging chad.

        But - my read of Ohio law is that the 20 Presidential Electors are in fact themselves the candidates up for election, and therefore THEY personally and individually have legal standing to initiate a recount (needing only a legal and PR team and lots of $$$).

        Start networking and maybe there's one out there who is as frustrated as we are.

        It's probably not appropriate to put their names here; it's really not appropriate for anyone who has real-life contact with any of them to describe that sort of negotiation in this sort of forum.  

        But as many people as possible should be thinking of their networks and should be passing this idea around wherever they can, to see if someone can persuade one of these people to do the significant that they may ever do for their country.

        List of Ohio's electors is here:
        http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/01/loc_elex1melect.html

        by BleacherBum153 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:32:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm replying to you (none / 0)

      because I've seen throughout the day how impassioned you are!

      What about getting Jerry Springer involved?  He's been a big Kerry advocate, and he must know tons of people in Ohio.

      His website is www.jerryspringer.com but it is blocked from view (appartently due to adult content) here at the office so I can't tell if there's an email address on the site.

      Anway, just a thought.

      My Grandparents Rock!

      by rina on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:42:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  YES!! (none / 0)

      The Kossacks have come back to the light!! Fight Team Fight!

      Make Art, Not War

      by The Mockingbird on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:46:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is for your locker room... (none / 0)

      To: GOPGrrl

      Relax, Kerry lost and nothing will change that. Kerry and his supporters would have to turn everything on it's head. They are so demoralized by this election they have no will to do anything right now.
      23 posted on 11/04/2004 5:18:52 PM PST by msjhall
      [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

      This is my first post, so it is a little weird that the content comes from someone else.  I'm an independent who always votes the person over the party and I will have more to say when the diary phase of my registration kicks in.  Until then, fight the fucking power.

      by GIMBLEROCK on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:43:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We do need to all try to convince Markos... (none / 0)

    ....to move this front and center and lead the charge.  Please add your voice to that effort.

    Thank you.

    by understandinglife on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:10:47 PM PDT

    •  We'll all always doubt the results... (none / 0)

      ...otherwise.

      And everytime a new far-right-wing Supreme Court Justice is annointed, it will hurt a little more.

      If we're going to live in a Christian theocracy, let us at least know we did everything in our power to cling to the roots of our democracy.

      by jos on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 07:27:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'll add my voice to this chorus (none / 0)

      Kerry's decision not to challenge the results and drag this thing out could be brilliant.  If it's the citizens of Ohio who do it and we get all those hanging chads counted (Ohio law says 2 or fewer corners intact equals a vote), Kerry may well be the winner and the recount -- i.e., the demand that all the votes be counted according to applicable state law -- can't be "blamed" on him.  

      It will be much harder for the Supremes to step in this time since Ohio State law has a uniform standard for how to count the punch cards, and Rhenquist may not be able to take part in the theft deliberations.

      Barack Obama personifies the American dream

      by Jim in Chicago on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:59:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I have been thinking about this also (none / 0)

    Recommmended

    by pf99 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:15:38 PM PDT

  •  Yes (none / 0)

    with you all the way

    by lanellici on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:16:19 PM PDT

  •  I am... (none / 0)

    100% behind this - COUNT THE FUCKIN VOTES BIATCH!

    by santoriello on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:20:10 PM PDT

  •  Please Recommend (4.00 / 2)

    Know all your enemies. We know who our enemies are. Stop Eminent Domain Abuse. End Corporate Welfare

    by BrooklynBoy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:21:29 PM PDT

  •  count me in on counting it out (none / 0)

    recommended!

    dept8.com

    by tejano on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:22:15 PM PDT

  •  asdf (none / 0)

    If this doesn't get pushed up to the recommended after a time, please repost.

    Team in Training - Racing for a cure to blood cancers

    by Tripleg on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:25:59 PM PDT

  •  Recommended (none / 0)

    I'm not afraid of terrorists anymore. I'm afraid of my government.

    by supergreen on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:33:14 PM PDT

  •  Recommended. (none / 0)

    I need to know, we all need to know.

    by Ennealogic on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:34:15 PM PDT

  •  Just Wondering (none / 0)

    Is there a way citizens can do this without the involvement of the Dem party? Does some petition or motion have to be filed by the party itself to demand a recount?

    by bramish on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:38:38 PM PDT

    •  don't need the party (none / 1)

      you don't need party involvement. I just didn't know how to centralize the recount calls. thought Ohio Dems would be a good start. but it is a citizen's right to call for a recount, don't need party:

      Any group of five or more qualified electors may file with the board of a county a written application for a recount of the votes cast at an election in any precinct in such county upon any question or issue, provided that the members of such group shall state in such application either that they voted "Yes" or in favor of such question or issue and that such question or issue was declared defeated or rejected, or that they voted "No" or against such question or issue and that such question or issue was declared carried or adopted. Such group of electors shall, in such application, designate one of the members of the group as chairman, and shall indicate therein the voting residence of each member of such group. In all such applications the person designated as chairman is the applicant for the purposes of sections 3515.01 to 3515.07 of the Revised Code, and all notices required by section 3515.03 of the Revised Code to be given to an applicant for a recount shall be given to such person.

      In the recount of absentee ballots that are tallied by county instead of by precinct, as provided in section 3509.06 of the Revised Code, the county shall be considered a separate precinct for purposes of recounting such absentee ballots.

      Know all your enemies. We know who our enemies are. Stop Eminent Domain Abuse. End Corporate Welfare

      by BrooklynBoy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:10:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is a presidential candidate (none / 0)

        an "issue" or "question" as referenced too in the statute.  I think not (from the Ohio Revised Code):

           

         § 3501.01. Definitions.

        ---

         (H) "Candidate" means any qualified person certified in accordance with the provisions of the Revised Code for placement on the official ballot of a primary, general, or special election to be held in this state, or any qualified person who claims to be a write-in candidate, or who knowingly assents to being represented as a write-in candidate by another at either a primary, general, or special election to be held in this state.  

        ----  

         (M) "Question or issue" means any question or issue certified in accordance with the Revised Code for placement on an official ballot at a general or special election to be held in this state.


        § 3515.01. Persons eligible to apply for recount.

         Any person for whom votes were cast in a primary election for nomination as a candidate for election to an office who was not declared nominated may file with the board of elections of a county a written application for a recount of the votes cast at such primary election in any precinct in such county for all persons for whom votes were cast in such precinct for such nomination.  

         Any person who was a candidate at a general, special, or primary election for election to an office or position who was not declared elected may file with the board of a county a written application for a recount of the votes cast at such election in any precinct in such county for all candidates for election to such office or position.  

         Any group of five or more qualified electors may file with the board of a county a written application for a recount of the votes cast at an election in any precinct in such county upon any question or issue, provided that the members of such group shall state in such application either that they voted "Yes" or in favor of such question or issue and that such question or issue was declared defeated or rejected, or that they voted "No" or against such question or issue and that such question or issue was declared carried or adopted.

        Sorry folks, this may not be the key we need.  Kerry needs to request the recount, not citizens.  Stupid law.

        ;]

        by lapin on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:50:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed, si se puede (none / 0)

      Are there really less than 5 people from each Ohio county who read DailyKos?  Why can't Kossacks just take it upon themselves?

      There must be a way for Ohio Kossacks to share contact information and JUST DO IT (right?)

      Barack Obama personifies the American dream

      by Jim in Chicago on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:24:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Al Sharpton? Jesse Jackson? (none / 0)

      Are you listening?  We need help.

      What about Bob Herbert, who's written extensively about African-American voter disenfranchisement in the New York Times?

      by jos on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:13:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  RECOUNTS! (4.00 / 2)

    The Columbus Dispatch is reporting that the undervote in Ohio is almost 93,000 votes. Along with the 150,000 provisional votes, likely resulting mostly from Republican challenges, this could lead to a reversal of the outcome. Someone in Ohio, Florida, New Mexico, Iowa and Nevada needs to seek full counts and recounts if necessary before the vote is certified. Why did DNC raise millions to contest this and then not get involved!?

    by mlplm on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:39:17 PM PDT

  •  Please, Ohio residents (none / 0)

    Any county with punch cards should have a manual recount of undervotes, regardless of the apparent margin.

    Please request a recount!!

    by Obama08 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:40:11 PM PDT

  •  As I also understand (none / 0)

    It cost $10 per precient. Any Idea of how may precients in OH?

    I suspose it would be possible to set up a fund to donate to this recount

    by pf99 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:41:15 PM PDT

  •  At the very least (4.00 / 5)

    A recount will vividly demonstrate that you can't do a legitimate recount on Diebold machines. The number on the machine is all you get. And then raise a holy stink about it. At the very least we publicize this issue and get it fixed for 2006.

    Creative destruction is our middle name. --Michael Ledeen

    by Utah for Dean on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:51:36 PM PDT

  •  What about SEIU? (none / 0)

    Someone posted a letter from their head on a thread today.  Couldn't they do this, at least in some counties?

    by ScientistMom in NY on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:00:39 PM PDT

  •  I have emailed Mr. White (none / 0)

    Now who is going to email Mr. Rather, Mr. Brokaw, and Mr. Jennings to get this thing some airtime?

    Thanks!

    Hope is, after all, the currency of popular politics, and a coin surprisingly hard to devalue. -- Fred Anderson, Crucible of War

    by ornerydad on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:02:41 PM PDT

  •  RECOMMENDED!! (none / 0)

    Let's do this!

    by irmaly on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:05:34 PM PDT

  •  So, if it is reccomended... (none / 0)

    What happens then?  Are there 5 voters per county in Ohio who will step up to ask for the recount?  Is there legal help available to them?  CAN they do it without the aid or support of the Democratic party?  What if the Dems in Ohio say they don't support it?

    Perhaps Move On or some other entity needs to take this and run with it to mobilize local support...

    I live in Alaska where there is no sense in anything...

    by futisaba on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:12:46 PM PDT

  •  Yes, do it (none / 0)

    We are a hopeful bunch, aren't we? I was so depressed on Tuesday, and yesterday's combined mental/physical exhaustion combined with a late work night had me feeling like I was about ready to collapse.

    But I'm chuckling now. I don't know if it's because I'm back in the denial stage with the rest of you, or there's something in this. Or that I just want to see the Emperor and his people tweaked a bit. And it has to be done, I agree with that.

    True story: I've had heavy-duty aluminum foil on my grocery list for a few days, because we ran out. Great for the old Thanksgiving turkey, you know? I told my husband I was going to the store today and that was on my list, and he made a gesture like he was putting on a hat, which I was about to do myself.

    And I'm pretty sure he doesn't even read dkos.

    by bdizz on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:14:15 PM PDT

  •  FRANKLIN COUNTY (none / 0)

    Even if you avoid all the others, please, for the love of God and/or John Kerry, get together 5 Ohioans from Franklin County and have them make sure that their voices were heard. Do we have people from OSU here? Let's all make sure that you didn't stand in line just to have your votes stolen from you!

    by pb on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:15:58 PM PDT

  •  Summit County Ohio (none / 0)

    Yes, I just emailed Mr. White asking for a recount.

    Indeed I do believe that the voters of Ohio did elect John Kerry.  I do believe that Ken Blackwell has proven himself suspect as the guardian of our vote.

    My amazement of the quick discount of Ohio not belonging to Kerry and no uproar as a result is a story unto itself.

    So? what is that story? Ohioans need to know.

    by ClearHead on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:26:33 PM PDT

    •  Get 4 of your brethren (none / 0)

      get 4 of your summit county brethren and do this, from the Ohio recount law:

      Any group of five or more qualified electors may file with the board of a county a written application for a recount of the votes cast at an election in any precinct in such county upon any question or issue...

      go to your county election board.

      Know all your enemies. We know who our enemies are. Stop Eminent Domain Abuse. End Corporate Welfare

      by BrooklynBoy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:39:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hand deliver your request (none / 1)

      They'll claim they never got the email.  Take in teh request n writing and make them stamp it with the date and time you delivered the request.

      by irmaly on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:51:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hand deliver (none / 0)

        • Get it signed as accepted by someone even if it is a hand made form
        • Carbon copy the local media and national media after the fact with the receipt

        by parulb on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 06:06:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Do it right (none / 0)

        Write up the request, have it notarized, take it, with copies, to the clerk's office, have the original AND YOUR COPY time stamped.  Further, on the request include a photocopy of your Driver's License and your Voter's Registration Card, with matching addresses.  Leave no doubts.  If you have 4 other friends, MAKE SURE THEY'RE IN THE SAME PRECINCT, not just the same county.  Leave nothing to chance, you're dealing with evil people.

        If you refuse to vote for OUR PARTY'S nominee in November, the blood of a thousand back-alley abortions will be on your hands.

        by dhonig on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:09:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  E-mail to Dennis White sample (none / 1)

    Important diary.  Here is what I just sent to Dennis White:

    Hi Dennis,

    For the sake of the health of our democracy, I ask you to try to organize enough people throughout Ohio counties to demand a recount of the votes there.  Whether or not it will change the outcome does not matter.  I am hearing a disturbing number of reports of uncounted ballots and unjustified challenges.  Ohio was one of the states with the highest incidences of voter suppression prior to November 2.  Put all this together with the stark difference between the final results and the exit polls, and I am deeply troubled.  This is eroding my confidence in our democracy even more than it already is, and I think I speak for thousands when I say that.  

    The 2000 election caused a lot of damage to people's faith in the electoral process, and hence to our democracy.  Please do not let it happen again this year.  People deserve to have their vote counted.  Everyone does.

    Thank you.

    Democracy depends on informed activism.

    by Juan Pablo on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:27:08 PM PDT

  •  RECOUNT!!!!!!!!!! (none / 0)

    Do it!  Please, Please, please Ohio Kossaks, please just count them to give us the piece of mind.

    by lilorphant on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:32:13 PM PDT

  •  ohio recount (4.00 / 8)

    I live in Cuyahoga Co. I will find 4 others and do this.I will email Dennis White now

    by Brocktoon on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:33:28 PM PDT

    •  Thank you so much (none / 0)

      I just posted below about not seeing anyone from Ohio here.  Thanks for standing up, regardless of the outcome.

      ;]

      by lapin on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:39:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  cuyahoga co (none / 1)

      i'm in cuyahoga co
      what do we do?

      Often, when I am reading a good book, I stop and thank my teacher. That is, I used to, until she got an unlisted number. --Student, Age 15

      by unemployedschoolcounselor on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:55:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  hey, a precinct in Cuyahoga County seems to have (none / 0)

      had a 7.1 percent turnout -- it's "Cleveland 6C", found by Kos poster bonobo.

      you can find the "unofficial" but detailed returns document for Cuyahoga county posted here:

      http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/boe/results/history/2004/110204_GE_Canvass.TXT

      Search for "Cleveland 6C" You'll see it has 662 registered voters, but only 47 of them cast a vote on Tuesday, making for a 7.1 percent turnout.

      45 of these voters cast votes for Kerry; only 1 voted for Bush.

      As a local, you may be able to find out more easily if there is any legitimate reason for this low turnout. I would think this preternaturally low turnout would be the talk of the county poll workers if it really was true. Thanks!

      by jennifer poole on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 07:56:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's especially odd... (none / 0)

        ...considering that in some places, people were waiting in line for hours to cast a vote, and Cuyahoga is an urban county.  It's hard to imagine why the turnout would be somuch lower at one precinct than so many others.  It could be that the other voters were challenged and had to cast provisional ballots.

        by NonemptySubset on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 10:05:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  done (none / 1)

    Recommended, and emailed to everyone who might just be pissed enough to help out as well.

    I think the most important point isn't necessarily the recount itself, but that when they try to do so they finally realize the machines can't produce a record and we finally get some MAJOR national attention on this.

    Good work, good research, I had no idea.
    thanks again, Kos community.  You've managed to make me feel better and energize me for a protracted fight.  I'd hoped I wouldn't have to keep up with all this, but alas... such is this world.  

    "Revolutionary change does not come as one cataclysmic moment...but as an endless succession of surprises, moving zigzag toward a more decent society."

    by saint on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:33:30 PM PDT

  •  I see nothing from Ohioans here (none / 0)

    Where are you?  If my state was in the same position, you're goddamned right I would ask for the recount.  Where are you Ohio?

    ;]

    by lapin on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:38:03 PM PDT

  •  Imagine if there is no recount (none / 0)

    And we discover years from now that Kerry would have won.  How horrible would that be?

    I'll root for the Indians, I'll root for the Bengals, heck, I'll root for the Blue Jackets if that helps.

    Please ask for the recount.

    The Republicans were right about one thing - The media is irresponsible.

    by nightsweat on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:38:46 PM PDT

  •  also... (none / 0)

    send comments to tim ryan.  i'm sure you all saw his  commentary on the draft, but just in case:

    http://movies.internetvetsfortruth.org/misc/timryan-excuseme.mov

    Congress - 1-800-839-5276

    "Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise." Thomas Paine, Common Sense

    by Cedwyn on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:38:51 PM PDT

  •  I called my (none / 1)

    Ohio friends

    "As long as space abides, so too shall I abide, relieving the suffering of sentient beings." Santideva

    by Percheronwoman on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:42:03 PM PDT

  •  Recommended Diary (none / 0)

    Recommended Diary is off the front page. what gives?

    Know all your enemies. We know who our enemies are. Stop Eminent Domain Abuse. End Corporate Welfare

    by BrooklynBoy on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:42:31 PM PDT

  •  If everyone in a particular county signed (none / 0)

    the petition, you'd have part of the recount right there. If Ohio was anything like Broward County where I'm from, I know there are motivated voters there. I'm lighting a candle for you all.

    by misscee on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:48:43 PM PDT

  •  hmmm.... (none / 0)

    as outsiders, i wonder if our efforts should be spent contacting ohio media instead.  especially college stations, indies, etc.  

    i do think our input could be valuable with tim ryan, though - at least tell him it's happening and to support it as much as he can.

    "Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise." Thomas Paine, Common Sense

    by Cedwyn on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:56:42 PM PDT

  •  Can you prove that this election was NOT rigged? (4.00 / 3)

    Shouldn't that be the goal of an election?

    The Carter people won't touch our elections, because we don't meet the three basic criteria:

    1. Equal Access to the press
    2. An internal independent election committee.
    3. A transparent vote count.

    We simply don't cut it according to modern standards of democracy.

    If we can't EXPORT democracy, isn't it time to IMPORT some?

    You can't get away with the crunch, 'cuz the crunch always gives you away

    by dnamj on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:13:39 PM PDT

  •  spread this (4.00 / 2)

    dontcha love it when other countries have better reporting on whats going on in our own country then we do

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00072.htm

    by drummer555 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:15:18 PM PDT

  •  Put this on the front page, Markos (none / 0)

    This seems relevant and timely.
    Enough philosophy and introspection.
    This is real action that could be done
    today. It's time for the citizens to take back our democracy.
    Ohio's not over yet.
    Their winger Sec of State should be dealt with once more.
    RECOMMENDED

    by demfromnc on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:19:31 PM PDT

  •  Can we sue for a record? (none / 0)

    I mean a record of the votes cast?  Isn't there supposed to be a record?

    by lilorphant on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:25:11 PM PDT

  •  good idea (none / 0)

    I think this is a good idea, not because I think there is much chance of a different outcome, but because we need to make the nation face the fact that paperless machines do not allow for a true recount.  For that reason we need to press for recounts anywhere Diebold was used.

    It would be good (understatement) to have Diebold deemed unconstitutional before the next election.  And, that is exactly what Diebold machines are: UNCONSTITUTIONAL.  

    These evil machines, created by a Bush friend, are expressly designed to defraud the voter, and that my friends, is a violation of our constitutional rights to vote, and have our votes counted.

    "I don't want to name names, but they know themselves." Koffi Annan

    by Sue in NH on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:31:14 PM PDT

  •  I live in Toledo, Lucas County (none / 0)

    We had fill in the bubble ballots
    (think scan-tron tests)
    I don't trust Blackwell or Bushco, but come on there is no way that we make up >100000 votes.
    I'll sign a petition to have a recount but it won't matter. Lucas County democrats are a bunch of political hacks. Yes we got the entire dem ticket a win, but they would be out of their league if they started to talk about a recount.
    And if they recount, any evidence of us winning the state would be suppressed. Even if the recount came back as Bush lost,which is highly unlikely, they would not leave office. Then we literally have a civil war.  

    by nater1979 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:38:34 PM PDT

  •  Ohio Voter Suppression Blog (none / 0)

    So? I keep looking around the web for the outrage...are we still reeling from having the eyes of the world on us?

    Ohio Voter Suppression Blog"

    by ClearHead on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:41:28 PM PDT

  •  recount (none / 0)

    We worked really hard in Franklin County with volunteers from all over the country.  I will e-mail Denny White.  Do you think a letter is better?  Or both?

    Senator Teresa Fedor helped ensure that not too many of the Diebold machines came into Ohio.  

    Keep this thread upfront if possible.  What else should we do in Ohio?

    And I think only the parts south of Columbus should be in Jesusland. The people north of columbus who remain loyal to shrub can move south.  Dems. did well in Franklin County.

    by tobysmom on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:45:31 PM PDT

  •  "I did not vote for Bush" petitions? (none / 0)

    Canvas a couple of small precincts for voters to sign a petition stating that they didn't vote for Bush, and compare the petition count with the precinct tally and see what's mathematically possible. This would also catch those GOP voters who abstained from voting from Bush, but might have had their vote cast anyway by the machine itself.

    by newsouth on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:47:34 PM PDT

  •  Look at this (none / 1)

    Thursday, November 04, 2004

    Democrats won more on Election Day than two seats on the Franklin County Board of Commissioners.

    They also won control of 13 county departments, 1,500 county jobs and the power to shape boards and commissions that oversee everything from children's foster-care programs to the Columbus Clippers.

    But as Mary Jo Kilroy and Paula Brooks basked yesterday in their election wins and prepared for their party's first county majority in 20 years, they said they're in no hurry to clean house.

    http://www.dispatch.com/election/election-local.php?story=dispatch/2004/11/04/20041104-C1-04.html

    Do you think all these democrats got elected in Ohio and didn't elect Kerry?  This is evidence. They fucked with the presidential count and didn't bother with the little offices.

    This is THE story of the so called election. Fraud. Should be front page kos material.

    Who controls the past, controls the future. Who controls the present, controls the past. George Orwell

    by moon in the house of moe on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:48:31 PM PDT

  •  my letter (4.00 / 2)

    here's my email to chairman dennis white. i was a week-long volunteer in franklin county.

    Chairman White,

    I am a Kerry Traveler who has just returned home after 8 long days of volunteering in the Franklin County campaign office for Kerry-Edwards. I am writing to pass along one election day experience and ask you to make sure that ALL votes are counted in Ohio and that examples of voter disenfranchisement are fully investigated.

    On Election Day, I was a campaign "runner" assigned to 3 precincts in Columbus. These were located near the state campaign headquarters on West Broad Street. Two of the precincts (Columbus 9 and 10...though I cannot remember their letters) shared the same polling place: Worley Terrace. The other precinct voted at the Family Center on Midland. The Worley Terrace precincts seemed to be predominantly white. Their lines averaged 15 minutes to vote. The Midland St. precinct, meanwhile, was predominantly African-American and averaged 1.5 to 2 hours to vote. I personally witnessed several voters walk away from voting here because of the long lines. In addition, during phonebanking, I had a number of voters say they tried several times to vote but the lines were too long.

    I ask you to explore why lines were so long on Election Day and how many people were disenfranchised as a result. Did more Democratic-leaning precincts have fewer voting booths per potential voter than others? Even if not, how can we tolerate situations where people are forced to wait up to TEN hours in line to vote? This is unacceptable.

    I know others are emailing you to support requests for a full recount of Ohio ballots, including provisional and spoiled ballots. In addition to those, I ask you to add these examples of disenfranchisement due to inadequate voting booths to your list. I ask you this on behalf of the hundreds if not thousands of volunteers who came to Ohio from out-of-state on their own time and money to try and help make a difference.

    Sincerely,
    (name withheld)

    by rugbyrooki on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 03:49:20 PM PDT

  •  Libertarian People (none / 0)

    Do they have standing to ask for a recount? Badnarik was actually on the ballot.

    by cronian on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:04:24 PM PDT

  •  Did you see this by GregPalast that Kerry won? (none / 0)

    http://www.mydd.com/story/2004/11/4/15276/3159

    Fact check Obama spins on Hillary http://facts.hillaryhub.com/

    by timber on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:05:33 PM PDT

  •  Also contact (none / 0)

    Montgomery county democrats

    Daytondems@yahoo.com

    One of the better party organizations in the state

    I hated Bush before it was cool.

    by daveriegel on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:09:12 PM PDT

  •  This is Great but it has to be done soon!!!!!! (none / 0)

    You can bet these bastards will try to rush the certification of the votes... It needs to be done now!!!!!!!!!

    To give real service you must add something which cannot be bought or measured with money, and that is sincerity and integrity. -Douglas Adams

    by jigsaw68 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:12:17 PM PDT

  •  Not my post, from MMYD (none / 1)

    There's 155,337 provisional ballots in Ohio, UNCOUNTED (additional 2.8% of the total).  93% of provisional ballots were valid in 2002 (91% in 2000) and 90% of the valid votes were for Gore in 2000.

    There's also 92,672 ballots that were cast on which no vote for president was registered (additional 1.8% of the total), according to the Ohio Sec of State website statistics.  A small portion may be no-votes, but given that Ohio is 70% punch card, most are likely under- or over-votes.  As we learned last time, those are mostly Dem votes.

    There's also an estimated 10,000 overseas absentee ballots that need to be counted.  Overseas absentee ballots can arrive up to 10 days after election day if they were postmarked on or before election day.  Most of these ballots are US military personell, so they will favor Bush.

    In two weeks, we'll have a new total in Ohio, and the margin will be down to around 20,000.  Kerry would need over 95% of the provisionals to be valid, and then he would need to win over 95% of them to net enough votes to flip the current reported margin to a Kerry victory, even before counting overseas absentee ballots.  And that still would not be enough to overcome the probable additional votes for Bush from the overseas absentee ballots.

    As for the under-/over-/no- "spoiled" votes, that really would be re-litigating Florida again. Ohio has a two-corner rule, which if applied uniformly might avoid SCOTUS' "equal protection" argument from Bush v. Gore.  I've seen estimates that Kerry might net 10,000 - 20,000 votes from it, but that would assume 60% or more of the spoiled ballots are valid under the two-corner rule AND favor Kerry.  Unlikely.

    Last Note: Ohio DOES have a mandatory recount procedure which is automatic if the election is within a quarter of a percent, in this case 13,705 votes.  It might be triggered, but Kerry would also have the right to ask that the recount not be done.  If the margin shrinks that far, we'll see lots of pressure on him from the SCLM and GOP to "be gracious" and "not put the country through this"...

    by DeanorBust on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:14:07 PM PDT

    •  If the people demand it!!!! (none / 0)

      I would be out of the hands of Kerry...am I right?

      To give real service you must add something which cannot be bought or measured with money, and that is sincerity and integrity. -Douglas Adams

      by jigsaw68 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:28:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This needs to be on the front page!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (none / 0)

    Recomend...recomend....recomend!!!!!!!!!!!!

    To give real service you must add something which cannot be bought or measured with money, and that is sincerity and integrity. -Douglas Adams

    by jigsaw68 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:15:09 PM PDT

  •  while you're at it... (none / 0)

    Can we call for a recount of Pennsylvania's votes too?  Something fishy was going on.

    by devtrash on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:50:07 PM PDT

  •  Our heart and sunshine (none / 0)

    Please, please excellent Ohioans, whose state is the "heart of it all"...
    Please, please excellent Floridians, baskers of sunshine and drinkers of oj...
    Help us bring our country back!  Help us bring our hard-fought democracy back!  If we don't take a stand, we are merely shrinking denizens of a gop gulag.

    Nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus... (Now is the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot...)

    by a2jean on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:51:09 PM PDT

  •  recommend. recommend. recommennd... (none / 0)

    why in the world did he concede? His whole campaign was run on how we can't trust this administration.  Every one knew that Blackwell and Diebold were on the Bush team.  The Lawyers were already on the ground and we sent them home.  

    Are people there people sifting through these documents right now in counties other than Franklin?  Who needs to be contacted in Ohio (or Florida) to prevent the counts from being certified before they are reviewed?

    If we don't make this happen fast we will have noone to blame but ourselves for the next four years of hell.  His 'mandate' is made of smoke. Let's blow it away and restore faith in the people.

    by forgetmenaut on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:51:51 PM PDT

  •  This is just not about Kerry (none / 0)

    and for this I am glad he has just conceded and can let us get on with it.  If he wins, he must agree to serve us.  he can't decide this.  The voters decide.  I think this is a long shot, but it is definitely not about what Kerry decides.

    "As long as space abides, so too shall I abide, relieving the suffering of sentient beings." Santideva

    by Percheronwoman on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:52:24 PM PDT

    •  You are so right! (none / 0)

      I want Kerry to be my president!  He may have conceded, but I won't -- not ever, ever!

      We all deserve the best democracy in the world.  Let's make it so!

      Nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus... (Now is the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot...)

      by a2jean on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:55:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why the hell not? (none / 0)

    let's start taking names and kicking some ass around here.

    by daisy democrat on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:54:02 PM PDT

  •  Free Republic Blog (none / 0)

    is quaking a bit. Go read their post.  One person asks "did we really win?"  Check em out!  Even they suspect they didn't win.

    "As long as space abides, so too shall I abide, relieving the suffering of sentient beings." Santideva

    by Percheronwoman on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:00:40 PM PDT

  •  find out why 200000 more (none / 0)

    voted for president than for senate, it seems odd to me that people waited in line for 10 hrs and failed to vote for both pres and sen.  number is from election returns found on ny times site.

    I'm gonna buy a gun and start a war, if you could tell me something worth fighting for.-----Coldplay

    by CO4Kerry2004 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:01:47 PM PDT

    •  Double confirmation (none / 0)

      From the Secretary of State's page:

      5481804 voted for President
      5288216 voted for Senate

      That is a deficit of nearly 2 million people.

      I still think that it is plausible.  Almost that same 2 million didn't vote for Issue 1.

      Team in Training - Racing for a cure to blood cancers

      by Tripleg on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:33:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's spread all over the state (none / 0)

      Those votes don't come from one county. Here is an example of the county that had the highest percentage (not highest count) for bush: Holmes
      Bush8,299 Voinovich8,812
      Kerry2,622 Fingerhut1,886
      Other55
      Total10,976 10,698

      by Sanity on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:57:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  little publicity for Senate race (none / 0)

      That almost 200,000 people make up less than 4%. Since the Senate race didn't attract much publicity, I expect a lot of people got to the polls knowing little about Voinovich and less about Fingerhut, and therefore decided to abstain on that one. 4% doesn't seem like a lot for a race that was never close and never trumpeted.

      by MGK on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 01:31:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  who's going to pay for this? (none / 0)

    can kos set up a fund at this web site for donations?

    Often, when I am reading a good book, I stop and thank my teacher. That is, I used to, until she got an unlisted number. --Student, Age 15

    by unemployedschoolcounselor on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:03:52 PM PDT

  •  I see no harm (none / 0)

    In asking for a recount from five citizens, independent of the Kerry campaign. Don't we all really want to know anyway?

    That said, I think a few lawyers need to be involved in this who specialize in election law - just an FYI.

    At first I thought this was a silly little diary grasping at straws. After reading this post, I have come around.

    FYI from Gallup:

    While Republicans are almost universally pleased with the outcome of the election, about three-quarters of Democrats are upset, including almost half who are "very" upset.

    by chicagoprogressive on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:08:43 PM PDT

  •  OSU election law site (none / 0)

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/

    FYI...

    Nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus... (Now is the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot...)

    by a2jean on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:13:11 PM PDT

  •  Does anyone have contact info? (none / 0)

    We need to contact any/all alternative publications in Ohio. Those of us not living in Ohio need something to do.

    College Newspapers?
    Weekly entertainment rags?
    Left-leaning newspapers?

    We should also have a list of Ohio counties, and be able check off which ones are being contested by Kossacks.

    We might also want to contact some of the investigative reporters that worked the Broward county recounts after the fact.  

    "I don't feel like Satan, but I am to them" - Neil Young

    by bcb on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:14:39 PM PDT

  •  Bless you Keith Oberman (none / 1)

    He is now reporting the 'too close to call' states, the exit polls and the uncounted votes

    "I'm not going to be your monkey", Jon Stewart

    by gabie on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:18:59 PM PDT

  •  Toledo Blade (none / 0)

    ...endorsed Kerry and has a very good journalistic reputation.

    http://www.toledoblade.com/

    As a non-Ohioan, I'm probably not the best person to contact them.

    Nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus... (Now is the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot...)

    by a2jean on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:22:22 PM PDT

  •  College Newspapers (none / 0)

    Link to all Ohio News orgs and college newspapers here

    "I don't feel like Satan, but I am to them" - Neil Young

    by bcb on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:24:49 PM PDT

  •  I'm so PO'd (none / 1)

    at Kerry for conceeding.

    It just sticks in my craw..after the 2000 debacle he just f'in rolled over after promising to fight for every vote.

    ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!

    Forget the Dem leadership...we need to start a petition in every single state to demand a paper trail for all voting machines.

    I'm pretty sure that California is covered by 2006. Does anyone know of a good site that is promoting this idea?

    GWB will pry my 22 and 19 year old sons from my cold dead fingers.

    by Momagainstthedraft on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:29:57 PM PDT

  •  Ohio Info (none / 0)

    Map with Ohio county names:

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/maps/ohio_map.html

    List (with links to profiles) here:

    http://www.census.gov/datamap/www/39txt.html

    Nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus... (Now is the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot...)

    by a2jean on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:34:09 PM PDT

  •  Get your t-shirts! (none / 0)

    by psykomeyeko on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:42:35 PM PDT

  •  NY Times article - must read for this diary (none / 0)

    Particularly relevant paragraphs at the end of it:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/politics/campaign/04ohio.html

    by hughdidit on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:42:36 PM PDT

  •  My letter... (none / 0)

    If anybody has anybody else i can write to please let me know...

    dennis@ohiodems.org

    Dennis,

    We are writing to you as recently we found out that in Ohio, if only 5 people from each county ask for a recount, the law of the state says a recount must be processed.

    We understand and empathies with Senator Kerry's position. We were very happy considering how polarized the current administration (and to a certain extent the Democratic parties own strategies) have made the country that Senator Kerry conceded when he did. However we are hearing reports, as we did with Florida four years ago, that's voter disenfranchisement took place in Ohio. The United States will continue to be polarized unless the people, the people who fought so hard for you this year (and will continue to) feel everything was done fairly. Dennis this is how conspiracy theories are propagated. Today we are still seeing reports of the techniques used in Florida in 2000.

    We find it strange that we had people waiting for 10 hours to vote, mainly in minority areas. We find it odd that some voting places only had one touch screen in operation, and that this was mainly in Black areas. You know that small details will leak out and the current media indifference will only last until a slow news day. We urge you to organize only 5 voters in each county to ask for a recount, so we can put this to bed.

    We see no harm in this for the unity of the country. We see no harm in this for the democratic party. We see only good, we see this as something that can stop years and years of speculation as we still see after Florida 2000. Incase you haven't noticed the fact senator Kerry conceded when he did sadly has not worked in unifying the country, and we do not believe President Bush has what it takes to bring the country back together. We can only do this by ensuring everybody that everything was fair, there are many reason to think it was unfair. A recount will do much to take away the doubt for many.

    We need to know Dennis. Senator Kerry ran on the position many of us felt, that President Bush has lied to us. That's was a campaign strategy for Kerry, if you also believe this (as you said you did) you owe this to us, you owe this to America.

    As always you have our support.

    Yours,

    by back2basics on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:46:25 PM PDT

  •  My letter (none / 0)

    If there is anybody else i can write to please let me know.

    Dennis,

    We are writing to you as recently we found out that in Ohio, if only 5 people from each county ask for a recount, the law of the state says a recount must be processed.

    We understand and empathies with Senator Kerry's position. We were very happy considering how polarized the current administration (and to a certain extent the Democratic parties own strategies) have made the country that Senator Kerry conceded when he did. However we are hearing reports, as we did with Florida four years ago, that's voter disenfranchisement took place in Ohio. The United States will continue to be polarized unless the people, the people who fought so hard for you this year (and will continue to) feel everything was done fairly. Dennis this is how conspiracy theories are propagated. Today we are still seeing reports of the techniques used in Florida in 2000.

    We find it strange that we had people waiting for 10 hours to vote, mainly in minority areas. We find it odd that some voting places only had one touch screen in operation, and that this was mainly in Black areas. You know that small details will leak out and the current media indifference will only last until a slow news day. We urge you to organize only 5 voters in each county to ask for a recount, so we can put this to bed.

    We see no harm in this for the unity of the country. We see no harm in this for the democratic party. We see only good, we see this as something that can stop years and years of speculation as we still see after Florida 2000. Incase you haven't noticed the fact senator Kerry conceded when he did sadly has not worked in unifying the country, and we do not believe President Bush has what it takes to bring the country back together. We can only do this by ensuring everybody that everything was fair, there are many reason to think it was unfair. A recount will do much to take away the doubt for many.

    We need to know Dennis. Senator Kerry ran on the position many of us felt, that President Bush has lied to us. That's was a campaign strategy for Kerry, if you also believe this (as you said you did) you owe this to us, you owe this to America.

    As always you have our support.

    Yours,

    by back2basics on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:48:44 PM PDT

    •  No, that's not right (none / 0)

      The five voter thing is starting to get legs and it is not  correct!  Only on referendums - issues or questions, where you vote Yes or No - can 5 voters get together and request a recount.

      When the election is for a candidate for public office, only a candidate may petition for recount.

      However, as I've pointed out elsewhere, there are a number of candidates involved here:  there were multiple candidates on Ohio's ballot for president; and each of them had a slate of 20 electors.  Find one of those electors, and you've got a legal person to file a challenge.

      by BleacherBum153 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 05:58:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Even one of Kerry's electors? (none / 0)

        by silverbax on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 06:05:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Electors (none / 0)

          Yes, if you can network around and find one.  Spent some time in the law library today; the electors are considered "candidates" for the "office" of presidential elector.  So yes, if you can find one who is sufficiently motivated, they can act indepen