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Long time readers may remember that for a few weeks last spring I would run a daily dkos demographic poll. It was fun until I finally ran out of questions.

However, the results are no longer accessible (as far as I can tell) and because there are so many new people, they are outdated, so what the heck, I will start again.

Today's poll is on geography. As is standard in all my polls, answer based on your strongest preference or own personal definitions, I apologize in advance that there are only 12 choices which won't always give enough nuance or will require the omission of perfectly good answers, and feel free to give an alternate answer or refine your answer in the comments.

And yes, I realize that this excludes international contributors and I really did want to add an additional category "Northeast"--so if you prefer that one, say so in the comments.

Originally posted to JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:25 AM PST.

Poll

What region of the U.S. do you identify as being from

13%185 votes
1%26 votes
19%278 votes
20%286 votes
12%172 votes
4%67 votes
3%46 votes
1%18 votes
5%80 votes
8%121 votes
5%83 votes
3%45 votes

| 1407 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Recommend (none)
    so this will stick around for a while.
  •  Nice to see you back in business (none)
    [n/t]

    In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

    by a gilas girl on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:32:18 AM PST

  •  those that can, do (none)
    those that can't/won't give lame advice ;-)

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:33:40 AM PST

  •  Hm... (none)
    I'm surprised that everyone on Pacific time doesn't run to their computer to view dkos at 6:30 AM
    /snark

    Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

    by JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:36:36 AM PST

  •  Where do I fit in (none)
     Iwas great Lakes on the other poll but not sure what my options are from this list.  Rochester NY?
    •  Maybe in the elusive 'Northeast'? (none)
      I live in the Adirondack Mtns. Not quite New England, and certainly not Mid-Atlantic (we hear tell of a large body of water to the east, but we can't see it from here.).

      Maybe the ATRGWO (areas that refuse to be glommed with others)?

      "I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war."

      by RonV on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:43:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah . . . (none)
        I was sort of thrown by this too.  I live in the NY Capital region, and while I think NY is technically a mid-Atlantic state, I live much, much closer to Mass. and VT than I do to the areas one usually thinks of as the Mid-Atlantic region.  Ah well . . .

        What in the wide, wide world of sports is going on around here?

        by KJS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:37:43 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I used to live in Troy. (none)
          When I worked for State Ed. in Albany.

          Now I live further north than Boston, Nashua, or Rutland. It doesn't feel 'mid-Atlantic' to me.

          "I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war."

          by RonV on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 10:59:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  er... (none)
      I don't know? Hey, kos, in the interest of making these polls a little less "challenging", could we open up the number of choices to 15?

      Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

      by JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:43:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm CNY, too. (none)
      Technically, that's Mid-Atlantic, if I remember my high school geography correctly.

      This poll uses (necessarily) broad strokes; you can't pin everyone down in that many categories.

      Theory is when we know everything and nothing works. Practice is when everything works and nobody knows why. (Einstein)

      by CodeTalker on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:48:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  How does this sound? (none)
        Pacific (WA, OR, CA, AK, HI)
        Mountain (MT, ID, WY, NV, UT, CO, AZ, NM)
        West North Central (ND, SD, NE, KS, MN, IA, MO)
        West South Central (TX, OK, AR, LA)
        East North Central (WI, IL, MI, IN, OH)
        East South Central (KY, TN, MS, AL)
        South Atlantic (FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, WV, DC, MD, DE)
        Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA)
        New England (ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT)
        •  Get my state... (none)
          the hell outta the South Atlantic Category. Maryland, DC, and Delware all identify MUCH more with the Mid-Atlantic than the South. Also, regrouping the South Atlantic and East South Central into "South" and "Appalachia" is more reasonable. And hell, W. Va doesnt even touch the Atlantic....

          vote dem in '06. cuz a rethug congress REALLY is the opposite of progress

          by jeff06dem on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 04:42:18 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I'm upstate and DON'T identify w/MidAtl (none)
        that was how the question was phrased. "Which region do you identify with".  Although NY State is usually lumped into Mid Atlantic, I don't feel like a mid-Atlantic person, and do not identify with that region.

        If it had just been stated as a categorical choice, which region do you live in based on these definitions, it would have been clearer.

        But I fully agree with all the other New Yorkers who've posted saying I don't identify with any of the broad regions you've listed.

        •  I really don't understand... (none)
          NYS has coastline on the Atlantic Ocean.  It is most definitely not part of New England.  It most certainly is not in the South.  We are the Mid Atlantic.  What is so hard and upsetting about this?

          Now then, I certainly understand that you can't see the actual Ocean from your window, but not everyone in New Jersey or Maryland lives on the water and lays out lobster pots for a living you know.  I grew up in Rochester, NY so I know all about Western and Upstate New York and I have lived in NYC for 15 years so I can say with great confidence that those folks north and west of Albany are far less familiar with the coastal region of their state (NYC, Westchester, Long Island) than coastal folk are of the upstate region.

          Like the rest of the country the upstaters view those of us in the city as a different breed of human being I guess.  Anyway - sorry you don't "identify" with 12 million of your fellow New Yorkers, but we DO exist you know.

          •  that's not what I said (none)
            I lived in NYC for ten years and loved it there, this is not an "anti NYC" sentiment.

            The question was what do we identify with. I feel actually more in common with southern Ontario than with New Jersey. That's not dissing new jersey it's just describing identity.

            Also, I'm glad as hell I'm in the same state with New York City, which is what makes this state a livable place (that is, not dominated by republicans).  But it's hard to say that upstate -- at least this far upstate -- has an "identity" that is linked to the concept of "mid atlantic".

            This is about identity, not about who likes or doesn't like who...

            •  Rochesterians love NYC (none)
              although they don't like the big, maladjusted state government that seems to have grown up around it. (I also grew up there; now live in Mass.)

              But it's true that there is closer cultural affinity to Toronto and Chicago than to the Eastern Seaboard.

    •  I hate to be picky (4.00)
      Really, really, I do. But I think "Upper Midwest" or "Great Lakes" should be an additional option. I'm in Wisconsin, which in this poll would put me in the midwest, but so would living in, say Kansas.

      Hey, if California can have two choices, I think the whole middle of the country can have that many. Still, I chose "Midwest".

      "The country we carry in our hearts is waiting" --Bruce Springsteen.

      by bdizz on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:51:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah (none)
        I feel more culturally connected to Buffalo or Erie, than to Cincinnati and Indianapolis.

        Let's stop worrying about who will lead us in 2008 and instead work on who we'll be in 2005.

        by pHunbalanced on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:55:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I do agree (none)
          I read, somewhere, that our speech patterns and pronunciation is similar to that of people in that part of the country as well. I forget why.

          "The country we carry in our hearts is waiting" --Bruce Springsteen.

          by bdizz on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:05:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  migration (none)
            Although I think most people in our town trace their roots either to the lower Mississippi valley if they are black and to Germany, the Balkans & Poland if they are n-h white, and Mexico if they are latino, the main migration pattern during the heyday of westward migration it was New Englanders who came to MI, WI & MN (as well as Chicago) while it was folks from Virginia and the Carolinas who settled the Ohio valley.

            Let's stop worrying about who will lead us in 2008 and instead work on who we'll be in 2005.

            by pHunbalanced on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:11:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Makes sense (none)
              That explains the twangy-sounding (to me) accents you start to hear when you travel just a little southeast of Chicago. Or even south of Chicago, for that matter.

              "The country we carry in our hearts is waiting" --Bruce Springsteen.

              by bdizz on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:32:14 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  I-70 (none)
              It's even more than that.  OH, IN, IL are divided into three cultural zones.  Everything south of I-70, the Old National Road basically identifies as southern.  But there's even a difference between cities like Indianapolis and Columbus, with cities further north near the lakes, (Gary, S. Bend, Chicago, Toledo, Sandusky, Cleveland) that are much more ethnic.
              •  Abouth every other summer for the past 12 years, (none)
                I drive to Pittsburgh and back (from Milwaukee), taking various routes, and I would agree. The northernmost tier of Ohio and Indiana reminds me of Chicago,  Milwaukee & Detroit, while Cincinnati, Columbus & Indianapolis feel much more Protestant and Anglo (with Germans too, but not many Slavic or Meditteranean people). Maybe new immigrants prefer being near water.

                You're right about the non-urban line being I-70. South of there feels more like Kentucky or Tennessee to me than it does the northern parts of IN, IL and OH. Cincinnati, though south of that line, does not feel southern to me though, just 'non-northern'.

                Let's stop worrying about who will lead us in 2008 and instead work on who we'll be in 2005.

                by pHunbalanced on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:19:51 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's about industrialization (none)
                  The northern half of Oh, IL, IN were industrialized so they took in millions of immigrants from 1880-1920, the populating of the southern third occurred between the expulsion of the indian population and the Civil war, 1820-1860.  As a consequence, the makeup of the immigrants was different.  The truth is that the whole area was heavily anglo-German before the Civil war.  The industrialization of the area near the lakes with the birth of steel and the automobile drew in many, many immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe during the second wave of immigration after the Civil War.  South of the old national road (I-70, roughly) was a resource area, north was production.  Before the Civil war, south of the Old National road had been heavily populated with migrants from Virginia, and Kentucky.  The southern third, of OH, IN, IL all had confederate sympathizers, these areas now vote republican had been dixiecrat, coincidence.....
      •  Oh. My. God. (none)
        Listen to you people...you are such liberals, what with all the dissecting and debate. Learn to just either dictate or follow, like the good citizens of the Right.;-P
      •  Yes, but you're forgetting... (none)
        California is the center of the universe.  <veg>
    •  Rochester NY huh? (none)
      I grew up in Rochester.  The Park Avenue neighborhood.  I've been living in NYC for the past 15 years however.  Anyway, New York State is a Mid-Atlantic state, indeed it is.
  •  Where's Great Lakes? (none)
    Kansas and Wisconsin don't have much more in common as "Midwestern" states than Washington and Utah do as "Western" states
  •  Hmm, I do know that... (none)
    ... there are Kossacks who don't live in the U.S.  Maybe you could change your poll to include an "other" for people who don't live in the U.S.?
    •  I've already explained that (4.00)
      those who are outside the US are out of luck in this particular poll. There are only 12 choices (okay, I remember why I used to tear my hair out over these polls).

      If you can't shoehorn yourself into any of these categories, just use the last one...

      Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

      by JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:50:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe (none)
        we should use this as a trial balloon and use the comments to come up with more descriptive categories or even use groups of states instead.  I also believe there are some general standards used in the market research industry for regions.  Let me look around the office and see if I can find some.
        •  Here is one I was able to find (none)
          admittedly not perfect but good to throw it out there.

          Pacific (WA, OR, CA, AK, HI)
          Mountain (MT, ID, WY, NV, UT, CO, AZ, NM)
          West North Central (ND, SD, NE, KS, MN, IA, MO)
          West South Central (TX, OK, AR, LA)
          East North Central (WI, IL, MI, IN, OH)
          East South Central (KY, TN, MS, AL)
          South Atlantic (FL, GA, SC, NC, VA, WV, DC, MD, DE)
          Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA)
          New England (ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT)

          •  see my comments (none)
            about not wanting to use specific states. I wanted to get a sense of how people associate themselves within reasons which sometimes overlap state boundaries, or sometimes are smaller than state boundaries.

            The point about the great lakes is well taken...

            Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

            by JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:15:42 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Hey! (none)
        Okay, I'm fine with Hawaii and Alaska together, we're the non-contiguous states.  We're used to it. Not thrilled with the South Florida addition because, uh...what's Jeb got to do with it? It was kind of neat to see 27 other people who might actually be awake and online when I was. (You think it's fun to log on and find 382 comments on Cheers and Jeers?)

        But, "just use the last one" if you don't fit anywhere else?

        I don't care if you're from Milwaukee and you don't like the folks in Topeka. Get a bigger shoehorn.

        "I still think politics is about who's getting screwed and who's doing the screwing." -Molly Ivins

        by hono lulu on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:31:53 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Where from art I? (none)
    I chose "south" because that is where I grew up and it's where I'm "from". However, I've lived in New York City and Boston for the past 16 years.
    •  People should answer (none)
      their personal preference. If you've lived in one area for a few months but grew up somewhere else, you can choose either one--depending on which one you feel identification with--or how you define from.

      A little mushy, I'm sure, but a lot less controversial than making everyone answer something like "where is your residence currently located" which would get a number of complaints...

      Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

      by JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:53:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Me too! (none)
      I've lived in the Midwest for almost ten years now, so I was going to chose that option but, it just didn't feel right.  I was born and raised in the South and I feel a much greater affinity for it than I do for the Midwest.  

      I've always felt that, as a region, the South has more pull on its expatriates than other regions of the other country.  I know the experience varies from individual to individual, but I wonder if that really is true on the whole?  I also wonder if your perception on that issue might affect how you feel about amending the constitution to allow naturalized citizens to run for president.  There were some strong feelings on the topic expressed in a thread here the other day. I imagine if you feel a strong pull to your region of birth, it's hard to believe a foreign-born citizen wouldn't feel as strongly, if not more so, about his or her native country.  

    •  had a similar dilemma (none)
      I was born and raised in New England, but have lived in the South long enough to have voted in 2 Presidential campaigns. So, for purposes of contributing information to current data [as opposed to historic data], I checked "South".

      But I'll be moving back north someday...

      •  I did the opposite (none)
        If someone asks me where I'm from, I say New England, not Virginia, where I've lived for the last 15 years.

        Even when I'm far away overseas, I claim to be from New England.  If someone is asking where I live, I'll tell them Virginia.

        This poll doesn't ask where we live.  It's where we're from.

        I think there should be three polls:

        Where do you live?
        Where are you from?
        and then similar to where are you from but less geographical with answers such as
        farming community
        Inner city
        Resort town
        Military bases
        Dark hollow
        Homogenious Suburb
        Bedroom Community
        Survivalist compound
        Kennedy Estate
        Mill town
        Fishing village

    •  I applied for dual-demographic status (none)
      I grew up a Southwesterner and very formed by that gestalt.

      However, I am relieved that I am now a resident of New England. I have strong affiliation with its culture and attitudes.

    •  Exactly (none)
      I live in the Pacific Northwest, but I'll be damned if I ever consider myself as being from here. I'm a Californian through and through.

      I also disagree, JMS, with breaking out Northern and Southern California. They're not actually all that different, despite regional bluster (mostly coming from the North). I love both of them equally and consider both to be "where I'm from" - but chose SoCal because that's my place of birth and raising.

      So you could probably add another poll choice next time around by combining the two Californias - or, by grouping NorCal with the Pacific NW and SoCal with Arizona and Nevada (Colorado basin, maybe?).

      I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day

      by eugene on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:26:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed on the NoCal/SoCal thing (none)
        I guess we people in SoCal don't spend as much time thinking about our northern counterparts as they do about us.  I went to SF in August and everyone we met that lived up there launched into diatribes about LA (like that's the only part of SoCal) without prompting.    

        "...Bush could kiss Osama bin Laden on national television and Karl Rove could spin it into a punch in the face." - Jim Hoover of Huntington Beach

        by fabooj on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 10:42:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Big City/Small City (none)
          That sounds a lot like Boston and New York.  I find that no one in NY talks much about Boston (other than during baseball season).  That's very different than when I lived in Boston, where everyone seemed to have an opinion about NY.
        •  Have you noticed (none)
          that the only people who don't think there's a difference between No & So Cal are from So Cal?  Believe me, there is.

          "Whatever [Bush] wants the answer is No. Now is not the time to fold, now is the time to up the ante." Charles Pierce

          by baba durag on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 01:30:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Obviously (none)
            I'm a No Cal-er.  Born and bred.  So I have views. :)

            "Whatever [Bush] wants the answer is No. Now is not the time to fold, now is the time to up the ante." Charles Pierce

            by baba durag on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 01:32:34 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Oh there is a difference (none)
            The difference is that we down south don't care.  Or rather, we have other things on our minds instead of thinking about NoCal.  We love to visit your city and it's rare to find someone down here who has strong anti-NoCal views. To us, you guys are a tourist attraction.  To you, we are a state of mind, a lifestyle.

            "...Bush could kiss Osama bin Laden on national television and Karl Rove could spin it into a punch in the face." - Jim Hoover of Huntington Beach

            by fabooj on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 02:03:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Actually (none)
              I should say it's rare to find someone in SoCal with strong anti-NoCal views who hasn't lived up there.  Most of my friends lived or are from NoCal and they just hate LA.  I try to get them to move back to NoCal (mainly so I can get more freeway space), but they're staying.  Yet, they just bitch and moan about how much better NoCal is.  I just don't know who they're trying to convince.

              "...Bush could kiss Osama bin Laden on national television and Karl Rove could spin it into a punch in the face." - Jim Hoover of Huntington Beach

              by fabooj on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 02:05:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Actually (none)
              That's not it at all.  

              "Whatever [Bush] wants the answer is No. Now is not the time to fold, now is the time to up the ante." Charles Pierce

              by baba durag on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 02:17:33 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Looks like you do care (none)
              So here's a bit of an explanation.  There's more, but this will give you some idea of where we're coming from (ooh, I made a stupid funny.)

              The animosity you sense from the Northerners stems from the water issues that have been going on for a very long time.  We're also a bit tired of being marginalized by the larger population of the LA area.  Kind of a tyranny of the majority thing.  Now, I recognize the needs of LA, and we're all citizens of CA and want to help.  But the truth is So Cal is a desert, and the populace needs to take responsibility for their desire to live there, and to be more self sufficient.

              One of the largest air pollution problems in the nation is a direct result of LA's "nobody but us matters" approach to their water needs.  When Mullholand ripped off the farmers of the Owens Valley for their water rights, the end result was the complete drying up of Owens Lake.  The bottom of the lake is a dry white powdery soil rich in arsenic.  That soil is carried up thousands of feet into the air by winds blowing through the mountain range, and is carried downwind as far as Texas. Everybody downwind now breathes arsenic everyday because LA wouldn't live within its' means.

              And it doesn't end there.  We battle this every year, and it's made us little tired and cranky about So Cal.

              "Whatever [Bush] wants the answer is No. Now is not the time to fold, now is the time to up the ante." Charles Pierce

              by baba durag on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 02:43:41 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I swear I don't (none)
                ;)  

                I honestly find the entire conversation dull.  Look, I'm from Kansas City, MO and when I was in SF, a guy from Kansas City, KS who lived up there wanted to get into a mega us vs. them thing.  I'm not about it.    

                The issue is that you're looking at it with a more political viewpoint than are your average resident.   Which I can totally appreciate.  But I can honestly say, I've never once heard one northerner criticize LA over politics.  It's always generalizations on behaviour or attitude.  

                "...Bush could kiss Osama bin Laden on national television and Karl Rove could spin it into a punch in the face." - Jim Hoover of Huntington Beach

                by fabooj on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 03:19:57 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Agreed (none)
                  And the attitude is well exemplified in the water situation.  If you question Northerners about the rivalry, you will end up talking about water.

                  You're right.  'Nuff said.  Boring unless you're involved somehow.

                  "Whatever [Bush] wants the answer is No. Now is not the time to fold, now is the time to up the ante." Charles Pierce

                  by baba durag on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 03:35:12 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  not just water (none)
                    the kings-lakers rivalry is pretty serious business up here as well. that and all the lousy governors the southland keeps sending us. shwartzeneggar, davis, wilson, deukmeijian, reagan. ouch.
  •  You Could at Least Include the (none)
    continents, including "Non-US North America."
  •  Californian (none)
    I identify as Californian, not Northern or Southern but distinctly both as I grow up outside of LA and then went to Cal and think of that as home as much as any other place in the world.

    BTW you could have got the international crowd with a single non-US...  I guess they'll put other.

    The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either.-Benjamin Franklin

    by Luam on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:56:57 AM PST

    •  Interesting (none)
      That is exactly how I consider myself. I grew up in the OC but went to Berkeley and now have a hybrid North/South identity, even though I live now outside of CA.

      I am also convinced that the north/south divide in CA is vastly overstated. The truer divide is coastal/inland.

      I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day

      by eugene on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:27:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  North/south divide (none)
        is there, but you're right... the cultural difference between, say, SF and LA is less massive in my mind than the cultural difference between SF and, say, Modesto. But I dunno... I do still feel culture shock whenever I go down south for a weekend.

        Of course, I also live in a place I consider the coastal/inland border town... Sacramento... much of the stuff to my West is extremely, extremely different from everything to my East, North, or South. It's kind of a weird place that way. So maybe I'm just more used to going back and forth between inland central valley & foothill folk and bay area hipsters. Dunno.

  •  Your earliest demographics polls... (none)
    ...appear to be here, and you can find the rest by hitting "Previous Page."

    (Old diaries and comments are archived, so they only show up if you do a search and check the "Search Archive" box.)

    In a funny sort of way, I suppose I could pick "New England" in your poll. I've never lived in the States, but I was brought up Unitarian.

  •  Nobody from upstate New York (none)
    thinks of themselves as "Mid-Atlantic". But we definitely aren't New ENglanders; those New Englanders are so full of themselves. Technically my home turf, the Catskills, is part of the Appalachian chain, but if I check that people will think I'm a Southerner.
    wringing hands

    The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.

    by SensibleShoes on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:02:40 AM PST

    •  I never knew I was from the midwest (none)
      until I moved to the fingerlakes and people started asking me what the midwest was like, since I was a native. I had no clue because I was from Cleveland, which has absolutely nothing to do with cornfields and Kansas!
      •  funny (none)
        I've never thought of Kansas as the midwest (rather Great Plains), but I've always thought of Ohio as the midwest. I think of the midwest as a bunch of industrial cities surrounded by cornfields and dairy farms, with lots of woods in the northern and southeast extremes

        Let's stop worrying about who will lead us in 2008 and instead work on who we'll be in 2005.

        by pHunbalanced on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:35:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Chicago in the East? (none)
        I was on a plane that started in San Francisco, came to Chicago to pick me up (well, and a few dozen other people), and continued on to Boston.  I struck up a conversation with a born and bred San Franciscan (yes, they do exist) who asked what it was like to live in a big Eastern city like Chicago.  Eastern?!

        To me Chicago has always been the capital of the Midwest encompassing Ohio to Iowa including Minnesota and Missouri.  Kentucky is a border South/Midwest state, and somewhere in Ohio, it goes from Midwest to Eastern.  Basically, my Midwest is where we manufacture stuff or grow stuff with the other stuff we manufacture.

    •  I'm in the Catskills (none)
      born in NYC & lived there for most of my life, though I've also spent half my time here in the Catskills for almost 20 years, now here full time. I'm marking 'Mid Atlantic'. Beh.
    •  I feel your pain . . . (none)
      I live in the Albany, NY area, which doesn't really fit with the NYC/NJ/Long Island/Maryland/Delaware Mid-Atlantic region, but it's not New England either.  I ended up going with Mid-Atlantic, though, since NY is technically a Mid-Atlantic State (I think).

      What in the wide, wide world of sports is going on around here?

      by KJS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:43:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes - New York is a Mid Atl State. (none)
        You live a 2 hour drive from the ocean.  OK?  You're in the Mid Atlantic.  God - why is everyone from Upstate New York FREAKING OUT about being called Mid Atlantic?  You're all acting like its an insult and this is starting to piss me off mainly because I live in NYC and I sort of thought this was the place where we didn't make these cultural assumptions about those of us in NYC (or SF, or Seattle, or LA, or whatever other huge city where we're all a bunch of horn sprouting sodomites).
        •  Ummmm . . . (none)
          First, I'm not freaking out about anything, much less "FREAKING OUT". I was just pointing out that I don't feel like I live in what I think of, geographically, as the mid-Atlantic region.  

          Second, I was born and raised in NYC, my entire family lives in NYC or its immediate metropolitan area and many good friends of mine live there, too.  I'm down there all the time and I think it's the greatest big city in the world, so despite your really strange assumptions and defensiveness, I'm not "acting like it's an insult" to say I or anyone else is from the "mid-Atlantic", and I'm not making any "cultural assumptions" about people in NYC being "horn sprouting sodomites" (where the Hell did you get that from?).  

          In fact, I'm not making any cultural assumptions at all.  It's just a poll - about geographic location - and you should really try to calm down a bit, stop jumping to such odd conclusions and stop putting words in the mouths of other people here.  It's a bad habit and you should break it.

          P.S. I'm more like 3 to 3 1/2 hours from the Atlantic by way of NYC, not 2 (I'm much closer to the Adirondacks, the Green Mountains in Vermont and the Berkshires in Mass. than I am to the Atlantic.  I'm also closer to the Finger Lakes and I'm about the same distance to Lake Ontario).  And no, that doesn't mean that I hate the Atlantic Ocean or that I'm making "cultural assumptions" about what I'm sure is its fine selection of fish and other aquatic species.

          What in the wide, wide world of sports is going on around here?

          by KJS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 03:34:56 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Albany isn't a two-hour drive from the ocean (none)
          Unless you drive really, really fast, and ignore such conventions as stop signs, other vehicles, and, well, roads.

          The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.

          by SensibleShoes on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 04:49:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  N California vs Pacific Northwest (none)
    In the west coast of my mind there is southern california and then there is the pacific northwest.  I think of the dividing line as being the places where really big, mist loving trees can grow vs where they can't.  Or maybe perpetual sun vs lots of fog.  Or maybe hippies, loggers and programers vs soccer moms and nascar dads.  Okay, maybe that last part is a simplification - there are some soccer dads -- but you get what I mean.
    This puts the dividing line just below sf and allows you to use that other category for the atlanic northeast.
  •  Texas (none)
    We aint the South...except those freaks out in Vidor...so I picked Southwest.

    "An adventure is just something that sucks until its over."

    by LiberalRakkasan on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:05:13 AM PST

    •  Texas is the South! (none)
      Yous agree on everything, yous gave us Bush, and yous seceeded together.

      On the other hand, one of the funniest lines from the TV Show "Dallas" was when someone asked JR if he was from the United States, and he said, "No, I'm from Texas."

       

      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.--John F. Kennedy, 1962.

      by Delaware Dem on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:41:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Texas, its like a whole other country (none)
        Trust me.  We're not "southern".  We have our own weird little brand of nationalism down here, and lumping us into the same category as Alabama is sloppy thinking.  I would never presume to assume that Delaware is the same as Maine, etc.

        "An adventure is just something that sucks until its over."

        by LiberalRakkasan on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:49:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hmmm. (none)
          I know you're right.  I am just stereotyping the evil red states.  I am allowed to do that for the next four years.

          Delaware and Maine are too far away from each other for the analogy to work.  But hell, New Castle Delawareans hate to be associated with the Slower Delawareans (those who live below the Canal).  

          Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.--John F. Kennedy, 1962.

          by Delaware Dem on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 12:47:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Damn Yankee...LOL (none)
            I'll forgive you ignorance of the Great State of Texas.  (its hard to say that with a straight face sometimes)

            Just keep in mind that we gave you Janis Joplin, Robert Earl Keen, Willie Nelson, Austin City Limits, etc.

            We aint all bad, but we seemed to be enthralled with stupidity right now.  I hope we'll get over it.

            "An adventure is just something that sucks until its over."

            by LiberalRakkasan on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 02:21:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  If only it were (none)
          a whole 'nother country.  

          We could have bombed it to smithereens for killing JFK.  ;-)

      •  Look at a map... (none)
        The distance from Columbia, SC (the birthplace of secession), to the Texas border is almost as far as from Columbia to Portland, Maine.  Now, I put Southerner, because Dallas is closer to the Mississippi than to New Mexico, but we definitely aren't Southern down here.  We have our own, peculiar dynamic that isn't summed up by any other region or state.  No moonlight and magnolias, barbeque and whiskey.  No starry skies under clear plantation skies, romantic enchanted nights with the air smelling of cotton.  Dallas and Houston are more polluted than LA!  Half the time during the summer, the air's too bad to breathe and they tell us not to go outside, something you never hear down South (not due to environmentalism, but to lack of industrialization).  Oh, and the Mexican food from Dallas south (especially San Antonio) is far better than the Mexican food even in Mexico, let alone the rest of the US.  San Antonio is one of the most beautiful cities in Texas, and has that lovely riverwalk, and the Alamo.  Houston has...well...Enron, and toxic air, and...Galveston!  I knew I'd think of something good about Houston!

        (Insert Democrat Here) for President in 2008!

        by teenagedallasdeaniac on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:11:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  again... (none)
      I figures some Texans might see themselves as more southern, some more southwestern. Pick your preference!

      Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

      by JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:16:46 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You mean (none)
    Currently from or born-and-raised from?
  •  Australia (none)
    Howard got in with an increased majority. Thanks to our fair and transparent voting system we don't even have the consolation of possible fraud. Strewth!

    You must be the change you wish to see in the world- Mahatma Gandhi

    by limaike on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:14:38 AM PST

  •  NY/NJ/ and either CT/PA? (none)
    locals know it as the tri-state area and/or the center of the universe (the latter is a sliding scale depending on how close you are to Manhattan).

    he's not the kind of wheel you fall asleep at

    by bopes on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:33:23 AM PST

    •  NY/NJ/CT (none)
      PA is somewhere else.

      "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

      by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:52:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  thanks for clearing that up (none)
        Sorry PA. In any case, no matter how you slice it, it's neither midatlantic nor new england.

        he's not the kind of wheel you fall asleep at

        by bopes on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:03:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  it's all based (none)
          on who commutes to Manhattan. Fairfield County, CT is full of commuters. Otherwise known in the past as BTPs (bridge and tunnel people - now out of vogue).

          "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

          by Greg Dworkin on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:20:14 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  in that case (none)
            shouldn't it be the quad-state area? Tons of people actually commute daily from philly and even northeast PA, believe it or not. The latter is a brutal haul on I-80, from what I hear.

            he's not the kind of wheel you fall asleep at

            by bopes on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:27:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Not Living Where I'm From (none)
    I answered the question in terms of my first 49 years in the 21% midwest which is where I'm literally "from."

    I fled to the 5% Pac Northwest which is where I am.

    So I guess it depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:56:28 AM PST

  •  When I was in Australia (none)
    I told someone I was from San Diego, and he thought I said "Santiago". He was confused because I had a North American accent.

    It's the theocracy, stupid

    by AaronInSanDiego on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:00:31 AM PST

    •  Reminds Me of the Bostonian (none)
      Who tried to book a flight to Oakland, and didn't notice until he was well over the blue Pacific that he was destined for Auckland.

      We the undersigned urge you to support Federal funding for research using human pluripotent stem cells. -80 Nobel Laureates to Pres. Bush

      by easong on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:03:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  How about non-Americans? (none)
    I realize that polls can't have an infinite number of choices, but I think you're missing an opportunity here to chart how many non-Americans visit this site regularly (and maybe find out why).

    So as a service to all of us, here is a diary where you can do that.

    "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

    by thingamabob on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:01:00 AM PST

    •  Categories for Non-Americans (4.00)
      1. Angry citzen of coalition partner.
      2. Angry citizen of former coalition partner.
      3. Angry middle-easterner.
      4. Angry citizen of non-aligned nation.
      5. Angry Canadian.
      6. Happy with U.S. foreign policy.

      We the undersigned urge you to support Federal funding for research using human pluripotent stem cells. -80 Nobel Laureates to Pres. Bush

      by easong on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:09:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  From? (none)
    Hm.. what about those of us who have lived in 4 states?

    I just picked where I'm living currently.

    The road to hell is paved with Good Intentions.

    by JenAtlanta on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:06:47 AM PST

  •  no glomming (none)
    I'm from New York.
  •  I said SW for Texas, (none)
    but some consider it South.  I think a geographically (not administratively)-based map would help, if you're trying to be accurate or thorough.  ;-)
    •  Actually (none)
      I'm not trying to be accurate, so that's why I offered very few ground rules. Maybe I should have added more...

      OK

      1. "from" is defined by you. It can be where you were born, where you were raised, where you spent your adult life or where you live now. Since many define it differently, I don't want to define it for you.

      2. What city or state is in what region is defined by you. Is Texas South or Southwest? Or does it refuse to be glommed? That's up to the individual Texan.

      3. Yes, I should have added great lakes. I would have also liked to add Northeast, non-US, and "I moved around so much I don't feel like I'm from anywhere", but there are only 12 slots

      Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

      by JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 08:39:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oklahoma? (none)
        I'm never sure what to put.  South, southwest, midwest?  Maybe a poll identifying state, territory or country would be good.
        •  Oklahoma (none)
          In my travels across Oklahoma, the eastern third (where it still looks lush and green) is the south. The rest (where water is scarce) is southwest.

          It's usually categorized as south-central and sometimes as great plains, but those options don't exist.

          Let's stop worrying about who will lead us in 2008 and instead work on who we'll be in 2005.

          by pHunbalanced on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:03:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Oops (none)
          There is a plains/west category. That's where I'd put Oklahoma City (but Tulsa and Muskogee may be more south).

          Let's stop worrying about who will lead us in 2008 and instead work on who we'll be in 2005.

          by pHunbalanced on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:06:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Huh? (none)
            Why would Tulsa be part of the South?

            "We kill when we close our eyes to poverty, suffering, and shame." -Herman Hesse

            by tryptamine on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:09:47 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Accents (none)
              Actually Tulsa seems right on the edge. They sound southern to my midwestern ears, but so do people in Springfield MO.

              I've only been to Tulsa twice, but it really seems to look and feel more southern than does Okla City.

              Let's stop worrying about who will lead us in 2008 and instead work on who we'll be in 2005.

              by pHunbalanced on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:22:31 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Midwest (none)
          At least, that's what I've heard since I moved there.  But I also recently saw a dialect map that separated southern and northern Oklahoma, lumping northern OK with the Midwest and southern OK with the South.  That is hard.  I think it really depends on how you're defining the state.

          "We kill when we close our eyes to poverty, suffering, and shame." -Herman Hesse

          by tryptamine on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:07:41 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  We can see why you pulled your hair out . . . (none)
        what a hornet's nest!

        We've been thinking that a single survey, of the official variety, might be useful as an annual undertaking. It could cover all the easy demographic stuff (or maybe not so easy) as well as some substantive policy/political issues, and maybe even site functionality issues.  It could be handled through a link to one of the many online survey tools, which would also set it up for easy analysis, trending, etc., etc.

        Would it be worth the trouble? Would the findings matter? Would they help further the Kos?

        We'd be willing to help fund such an undertaking if there's interest. Plus we could help with questions, structure, coding, etc. (We're a semi-retired partner in Yankelovich and a couple of other research/marketing companies.)

        Unfortunately, we don't really know who's who and how to get anything decided around here.

        Or maybe nobody does?

        :)

        Do good. Be nice. Have fun.

        by ElizabethJames on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:35:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  my surveys are (none)
          mostly amusing to me...so they are subjective, and I usually use them to test certain hypotheses, not necessarily to get any kind of objective data.

          However, something more "official" would be useful as well.

          However, the 12 choices thing can still be a problem unless you kept your categories very broad and neutral.

          Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

          by JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 11:43:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  kwicherbitchin. (none)
        there are only 12 slots

        Which is more than plenty.  Spoken as a proud member of "flyover country", reveling in everything that coastal elites are missing.

        "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

        by Odysseus on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 10:44:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Subcontinent (none)
      I think Texas is unique enough to be treated like India as its own subcontinent.  Oklahoma could be your Pakistan.
  •  From the Blue Midwest (none)
    Coming to you from Michigan's progressive haven of Ann Arbor.  Our county dems' tenacious GOTV efforts turned Michigan blue this year.

    Nunc pede libero puisanda tellus... (Now is the time to beat the earth with unfettered foot...)

    by a2jean on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:01:36 AM PST

  •  How about just two choices?: (none)
    1. Faith-based community
    2. Reality-based community

    Repuritan Party Mandate 2004: Welcome Back to the 1950's!

    by wry twinger on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:05:36 AM PST

  •  New England (none)
    New England, Connecticut to be precise.  And I'm sure as hell thankful for that!
  •  PacNW (none)
    born and raised (though the snobs in Oregon and Washington don't like to include Idaho in the PacNW) and current, as I live in Seattle. I've lived in all three NW states, as well as DC (well, northern VA) and NY--the city. I'm kind of a mover, I guess.

    All the snark that's fit to...er...pixelate? liberal street fight

    by Joan McCarter on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 09:48:11 AM PST

  •  From the beautiful blue island of Manhattan (none)
    Is New York considered a part of New England? Is New Jersey? I had always thought that New England was MA, RI, NH, CT, ME (?) I would like to be enlightened on this point.
  •  Poor JMS (none)
    Making your way in the world today, takes everything you've got...Wouldn't you like to get away?

    Man, who know geography could be so much fun?  Next poll, just stick us in quadrants.  I think I turned grey and lost some locs just reading the posts.  LOL.

    "...Bush could kiss Osama bin Laden on national television and Karl Rove could spin it into a punch in the face." - Jim Hoover of Huntington Beach

    by fabooj on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 10:45:20 AM PST

  •  Location, Location, Location (none)
    From someone from the Pacific Northwest (born in Tacoma) I consider the NW to be any part of what was once the Oregon Territory (or Country if you prefer) This includes Wash, Ore, Idaho and Montana up to the Rocky Mts.
    Local cable channel Northwest Cable News covers this area for the most part.

    I would agree with others that in many other ways it could go all the way to the SF Bay area.
    Seattle, Portland and SF are all very liberal, more so than most of the country. Also includes Microsoft/Amazon.com/Real Networks etc and Silicon Valley of CA.

    I once read the book Ecotopia which included WA, OR and northern CA from the mountains westward.
    The environment is more important to people in this area than say the Midwest or South (not to say no one in those areas care)

    It is much easier perhaps to classify people by political beliefs than georgraphy.
    Except those too can also be controverisial.
    Progressive is not a very well defined term but I consider myself one rather than liberal which is what I used to consider myself.

  •  Republic of VT? (none)
    Separate that from New England.  We do what we want.
  •  North Central Kentucky... (none)
    is hard to put a finger on.  The Greater Cincinatti-Louisville-Lexington triad is distinctly different from the rest of the state.  The culture is much different than in the eastern part of the state which is clearly Appalachia (though I prefer the term Mountain East), we're too eastern to be the midwest, too northern to be the south.... i'm at a loss.
  •  what's the matter with california? (none)
    what's up with the weak california representation?? :)
  •  where's northeast? (none)
    what, nyc isn't big enough for ya?
  •  I should have just (none)
    made the choices

    Hellman's
    Best Foods

    as it stands, it looks like Hellman's is winning by quite a bit...

    Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

    by JMS on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 12:51:56 PM PST

  •  Ohio, the eastern lunatic fringe of the Midwest (none)
    or the western lunatic fringe of the East. Take your pick. We swing either way. <grin>
  •  Almost 100 Southerners so far (none)
    Seems like a critical mass to take over the south to me!

    Bye bye "red state" South ... it's our turn!

    Reality-based progressive.

    by Pops on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 02:02:10 PM PST

  •  how the hell did we lose the midwest? (none)
    look at all them people out there!

    he's not the kind of wheel you fall asleep at

    by bopes on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 02:16:45 PM PST

  •  OT, but important (none)
    But if you live in Washington State, or even if you don't, and you want to do everything you can to keep a real slimeball Repug out of our statehouse, please, please, please recommend this diary, and also consider chipping in a few bucks to the State Party to help pay for our recount.

    All the snark that's fit to...er...pixelate? liberal street fight

    by Joan McCarter on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 02:23:39 PM PST

  •  You forgot "upper midwest" (none)
    I was raised in Minnesota, and we were very sensitive to that distinction!  An electoral map will explain why...
  •  Poor Poland (none)
    Forgotten again.

    No, wait. Chicago's in the Midwest.

    Never mind. :)

    The Kama Sutra is a pro-creation position, if there ever was one. :)

    by cskendrick on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 04:49:04 PM PST

  •  I like my Sunset Magazine area (none)
    "Intermountain" (whatever that means)

    Oh George, not the livestock!

    by espresso on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 06:08:49 PM PST

    •  Sunset (none)
      I used to subscribe to Sunset magazine when I lived in San Francisco.  When I moved back home to Hawaii I asked if I could continue to get that edition instead of the yucky SoCal one. They wouldn't let me. pooh.

      "I still think politics is about who's getting screwed and who's doing the screwing." -Molly Ivins

      by hono lulu on Thu Dec 02, 2004 at 07:08:34 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dang it,, the Midwesterners are ahead again! (none)
    With 1,109 votes in the poll, Midwesterners are up to 20%, more than any other region.  It must be those gerrymandered districts. Or voter suppression on the left coast. Isn't Scoop a Diebold product???

    I demand a recount!

    Another Brian Schweitzer Deanocrat

    by Ed in Montana on Fri Dec 03, 2004 at 04:51:52 AM PST

  •  Northeast. (none)
    NY, is NOT New England, or Mid atlantic, so it's my only option.

    The secret source of humor is not joy but sorrow; there is no humor in heaven. - Samuel Clemens

    by PBJ Diddy on Fri Dec 03, 2004 at 05:15:43 AM PST

  •  Interestingly (none)
    even distribution among mid-atlantic, midwest, and west coast (about 20% each). New England and South together give another 20% (and a tad more).
  •  What about the rest of the world...? (none)
    It so happens that people outside the US read Daily Kos.

    if you had offered more choice in terms of geographic locations (ie OUTSIDE the borders of the US territory), you might have had interesting data...

  •  What about the Southeast? (none)
    North Carolina is somewhere in between mid-Atlantic and South.  Most regional breakdowns usually have a Southeast category for NC, SC, GA, FL, and sometimes surrounding states like KY, VA, TN thrown in.

    Which region do you consider NC to be in?  Mid-Atlantic?  South?

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