Daily Kos

[UPDATE] OHIO Recount [now with video!!!]

Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 01:01:40 PM PDT

The other thread on this must be killer on those endagered 56K modems out there, so I thought I'd make a new thread on this.  

For those that want to check out the original thread, go here.  The are hundreds of (mostly) insightful comments, great links, explanations, etc.

Lots below the fold:

Here is the text of the Kerry letter.
December 10, 2004 Re: Presidential Recount

Dear Director and Deputy Director:

Enclosed please find a copy of a letter personally signed by John Kerry appointing me as his legal counsel with respect to the recount for President and Vice President of the United States, with full authority to act on behalf of him and John Edwards, including appointing witnesses to attend the recount. Also enclosed is a letter personally signed by John Kerry designating witnesses to attend the recount in your county.

On behalf of John Kerry and John Edwards I am making the following requests regarding the conduct of the recount:

1. The selection of precincts for the three percent hand count should be according to a scientifically valid random sampling method. I am aware that you have received a letter from Votewatch regarding this issue with an offer by that organization to provide resources to ensure that the sampling method is valid. We urge you to accept this offer of assistance or otherwise be able to demonstrate that the method employed by the Board to select the precincts for the three percent hand count is scientifically valid.

2. We request that each candidate be given the opportunity to select at least one precinct for a hand count, either as part of or in addition to the three percent hand count.

3. For those counties that use touch screen voting systems, we request that the three percent hand count include a hand count of three percent of the ballot images stored in the each of the redundant memories of the machines selected for the recount and on any paper trail for the machines.

4. We request that the Board provide the opportunity for candidates participating in the recount to have the programming and calibration of the tabulating system, scanners, and electronic voting machines verified by independent experts.

5. We request that the test used by the Board to verify the logic and accuracy of the computer tabulating program be performed for each precinct, including any separate absentee precinct. Further, the test should include testing for under and over voted ballots.

6. We request that computer printouts of the recount results include the under and over votes recorded in each precinct.

7. John Kerry and John Edwards hereby request to have their witnesses visually inspect all ballots for which your voting system has not recorded a vote for President and Vice President, i.e. the undervote and overvote ballots. If the Board does not agree to a visual inspection of these ballots, then we hereby request to visually inspect all ballots pursuant to R.C. § 3515.04 and OAG 74-103.

8. We request to inspect envelopes and related paperwork for all uncounted provisional and absentee ballots. This includes documents stating the reason or reasons that a ballot was not counted and the documentation to support the same.

9. In order to verify candidate rotation, we request to inspect the ballot page assemblies of all punch card voting devices and the ballot faces of all touch screen voting machines used at the polls or at the Board's office.

10. For those counties where the names of Nader and Camejo were visible to voters on the ballots, ballot pages or faces of voting machines, i.e. where the names were not covered over with a sticker or blacked out or the ballots were not reprinted without their names, we request to know whether any votes were cast for Nader and Camejo for President and Vice President.

11. We request that absentee ballots which were postmarked by election day, November 2, 2004, and were received by the board no later than November 12, 2004, be counted if the voter did not vote at the polls.

The above requests are in addition to any other requests that may be made by our witnesses. If you should have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Very truly yours, cc: Daniel J. Hofheimer Kerry-Edwards State Counsel, Ohio Donald J. McTigue


Things to do today:

1. Freep the yahoo article over here. AND makes sure to vote YES, there should be a recount over here.

2. Maintain cautious optimism. Yes, Ohio electors have, in a blatant disregard for the integrity of the electoral process, cast their 20 precious votes for Bush & Co. No, that does not matter. For two reasons.One, Arnbeck filed his lawsuit "hours earlier".  I think this means that there is an objection made by the deadline.  I am still looking up Ohio law on this though. Second, it doesn't matter that Ohio cast its votes.  Any action of a legislature or legislative body can be overturned, regardless of whether the body acted with the authority to do so.  If you have legitimate grounds, i.e. fraud, suppression, and it turns out that the electors are not legitimate, there are remedies available.

3. Catch the replay of the Conyers hearing at on CSPAN.  Last ditch efforts to fix machines, affidavits, and lots of other ear candy that will give you a head rush.

4. Check out images of protesters here. My favorite one:


5. Listen to the hearing in Pacifica Radio's Archives.

6. Get up to date on required reading:

Medina County Refuses To Cooperate In Recount
BOE Director Susan Strasser, BOE Chair Thomas E. Wolfe, and NE Ohio Field Representative for the Secretary of State, Madhu Singh all refused to allow further inspection of the ballots from Medina City that I requested to view in more detail. They stated that our purpose was to decide how the computer would count the vote, and not to determine the intent of the voter.
Bob Fritakis: Startling new revelations highlight rare Congressional hearings on Ohio vote (pronin2 diary on it here)
In one exit poll affidavit, Jonathan David Simon, an expert witness, notes that at 12:53 a.m. the exit polls altered the projected winner – even though the same number of votes had been cast. "Although each update reports the same number of respondents (872), the reported results differ significantly, with the latter (12:53 a.m.) exit poll results apparently having been brought into congruence with the tabulated vote results." In other words, the exit polls were made to conform to a political decision to declare Bush the victor.

Another exit poll affidavit, filed by Ron Paul Baiman, an economist and statistician at the University of Illinois and University of Chicago, said the swing in national exit poll results, recorded at 12:33 a.m., when Kerry was winning with 50.8 percent of the vote, to Bush winning with 51.2 percent, was, "in lay terms, impossible."

"This is more than a 100 percent swing in the other direction of the exit poll margin, he said. "There is less than a one in 25,000,000 (1/25,507,308) chance of this occurring."

Another affidavit by Richard Hayes Phillips, a geomorphology Ph.D. from University of Oregon with a special expertise in spotting anomalous data, found dramatic examples of erroneous voting patterns – with votes taken away from Kerry - that can only be explained by computer manipulation.
Brad Blog Exlusive:Clint Curtis 'Stunning' the Committee with 'Jaw Dropping' Testimony
Then, he asked curtis something like whether voting machines could be hacked. He said yes. Arnebeck asked him on what he based that opinion. He said because I wrote a program that could do it. Arnebeck asked when that happened. Curtis said feeney had asked him to design such a program at yang enterprises. Jaws dropped. Tubbs jones and waters looked shocked. Tubbs jones, waters and nadler asked questions. Waters asked him to repeat who asked him to do it. Congressman feeney, he said. Nadler asked him some questions, as did tubbs jones and a state senator. Curtis was asked what he would conclude if there was such a substantial deviation btwn exit polls and actual results. He said he would conclude the election had been hacked. Gasps. Could have heard a pin drop.
WIRED News picks up Curtis story and gives a shout out to DailyKOS (comlete with a link)!
Many questions have been raised about Curtis, the 46-year-old programmer, who said he doesn't know if anyone ever placed the prototype code on voting machines. But this hasn't stopped frustrated voters and bloggers from seizing his story. Daily Kos mentioned the allegations, and Brad Friedman of The Brad Blog has written extensively about them.

Cobb tells of RECOUNT fraud
Cobb cited one case detailed by an --as yet anonymous-- informant, that a Triad GSI employee had told staff at the Columbus County Board of Elections office to inconspicuously note a prepared recount result, then report this data irrespective of the actual recount. The Triad GSI representative had also tampered with Triad voting equipment in the offices. "This is going on, all over the state," Cobb told the hearing.
And, from the mouth of Bonifaz:
The nation is at a crossroads," Bonifaz told the forum.

"We can stand by while our democracy erodes around us, or we can stand up and fight," he said.

"For the dignity of our nation; and for the dignity of ourselves; and for the memory of those who struggled before us, we must choose to fight."
Eloquent words. This story is developing very quickly, so keep an eye out for links and post them here so we can keep up to date!

Update [2004-12-13 19:23:53 by georgia10]:Apparently, some diligent members of DU have uploaded video of today's hearing. Should be Curtis' testimony. Huge thanks to ohio_liberal and the rest of the DUers for getting this out there!

Ohio Hearing

Tags: (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 132 comments

  •  thanks Georgia! (none / 1)

    your list of "things to do today" is most helpful, and I don't know why I didn't see the letter when I looked at your other diary.

    I'm so glad that KE04 has finally weighed in in a significan way.

    peace

    •  Do hit the Yahoo and ONO links above (none / 0)

      looking at the Yahoo story rating and poll results, we're clearly being out-mobilized by some group that 's putting some effort into it...

      Strongly encourage folks to find the links in the diary and go vote.  Yahoo ratings are also influenced by emailing the article to friends...

      For the record, we still have more than enough petroleum to trigger runaway greenhouse effects before the stuff runs out for good.

      by Minerva on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 04:37:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Email Rep. Conyers and Thank Him... (none / 0)

        for all his hard work on the hearings about election irregularities in Ohio.

        http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/contact.html

        Here's my email:
        Dear Rep. Conyers and Democratic Members of the House Committee on the Judiciary:
        I wanted to write and express my deep gratitude for your continued efforts to shed light on election irregularities in Ohio.  I fear that the transparency and validity of our electoral process have been undermined in the last election, and I applaud your determination and hard work to insure that these irregularities are thoroughly investigated.  Would that all our government officials were more like you.  Please continue with these investigations - our country needs to know what happened in Ohio, why it happened, and that it will never happen again.

  •  Yes, Thanks! (none / 1)

    I've got an older iMac and those huge diaries take forever to load. I probably wouldn't have seen the letter if you hadn't put it here.

    Can you post the source--who managed to get their hands on it?

  •  I am baffled (3.80 / 5)

    that now that this is making natiional news, there is no TOP LEVEL post on this....
    •  I'm a little more (4.00 / 4)

      than baffled!  It seems to me that this issue is commanding a great deal of interest.  One thread has something like 500 comments.  Wouldn't you say that the people are speaking volumes about what is important to them/us?  So, if Kos ever wants to run for a political office as I have seen indicated on this site, is this an example of how he will listen to we the people?  

      Fair, auditable elections is more important right now that who will be the chairman of the DNC!

      •  kos won't touch it (3.33 / 3)

        i don't know what his reasoning is.
        •  "Reform Democrat" (4.00 / 4)

          My ass

          Iowa and New Hampshire; YOU'RE FIRED!

          by AmericaIsBetterThanBush on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 03:14:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  blogger-turned-MSM Democrat (none / 0)

            who's just trying to keep making money off this site
            •  In Kos' Defense (4.00 / 5)

              I too cannot for the life of me figure out why most of the country it seems is totally and utterly convinced that the election is a foregone conclusion. I know they think this will somehow hurt the Democrats, though I also cannot follow the logic behind this either. I just can't do it.

              However, this is the case. I talk to rabid Democrats at work each day and I have not come across ONE who thinks it's even remotely possible that this election could be overturned.

              I say to them, "I realize it's not likely and I sure as hell would not bet money on it, but it's 119,000 votes. It's certainly not impossible, especially considering the exit polls and the glitches, not to mention massive disefranchisement".

              That's when they focus on the disenfranchisement.
              "If people couldn't vote, that's not something that can be counted", they say.

              I say, "Still, Warren County? The way Blackwell is stonewalling? That doesn't tell you something?"

              Their all the same. "Move On", they say.

              It's really like a Twilight Zone episode to me. No matter how hard I try, I cannot convince people that I am not just having sour grapes. I can't get them to understand that I can deal with Kerry losing. I just can't deal with not knowing with complete faith that Bush actually did win. That in fact, I wish that Bush did win clearly ( If he had to win, that is ) so that we could know for a fact that we're not wasting energy in the wrong areas. So that Nancy pelosi doesn't have to memorize the New Testament. So Democrats don't start joining in on the chorus of Michael Moore fat jokes. I just need to know, and I think everyone else should need to know.

              Apparently, they think they know. They trust the system. I just never realized how effective all that singing the National Anthem in school each morning really was until now.

              So in reality, Kos and other bloggers, Jon Stewart, Al Franken and even Michael Moore, the fatass, my wife Pamela, who just basically came in the room just now and gave me an epiphany.
              She came in the room and somehow I got to telling her about George Lakoff and  how he says Democrats should start using the republicans language, like calling the Deficit, the baby tax and things like that, and she said, "That's Bullshit".
              The last thing we need is to keep clouding the truth until no one is telling it anymore. What the democrats need is a strong leader. When they have that maybe then the people will start a Revolution to defend him, but John Kerry just wasn't that guy."

              And maybe that's it. Maybe if it were someone like Robert Kennedy, or even a Howard dean we would be getting up and fighting for them now. We want to be led, by a leader. The fact that Kerry is being so cautious about this now is only reenforcing everything that's been said about him. He's wishy-washy. He goes along with the croud. You know the drill.

              Maybe if Kerry had not conceded we would have fought for him in the streets instead of our keyboards.

               But the final truth is, as a group en masse, if we are going to put our asses on the line to go there, to put down our briefcases ands shovels and pick up picket sign, we should at least be led by the person we are fighting for.

              As it is, this is probably the most pathetic revolt in the history of mankind.

              As I type here, talking to my wife, she also just summed up in one sentence exactly what it is the democrats need to do now, regardless of what happens in Ohio ( and/or elsewhere).

              She said, "The Left needs to make it cool to care again"

              God I love her.

        •  it IS mysterious. (4.00 / 4)

          I'd like all of the press possible on the recount.

          Opinions vary over the level of malfeasance-  some, like Kos, apparently believe that it stopped at harassment, tossed out registrations, and withheld voting machines.  Just that much tampering is bad enough.   Isn't the recount, and Kerry's letter, worthy of front page attention?

          It seems a bit like Kos is doing a Kerry, hanging back, not wanting to be associated with people who feel that there was more fraud than the above, unless it all pans out.  This seems more like positioning for future respectability than a muhc- needed dedication to election reform to me, but hey.  Who knows.  I feel like failing to pursue all of the shady dealings in this election will cost us dearly in terms of future reform.  We need to pressure them while there is still evidence on the ground.

          So it's up to us small ones not only to demand justice, and a full vote count, but also to keep each other up to date.   Any links to action regarding the challenge and recount reporting are very welcome.

          •  Kos, (4.00 / 2)

            due to the sheer notoriety of this site, now has a certain responsibility to uphold longstanding journalistic practices. (The old, boring ones that require the sort of due diligence many of us would rather forget about in our quest for the Holy Grail of election stories.)

            But let's remember that, at the same time, each and every crackpot entry has been given the same opportunity for coverage that the legitimate election fraud stories have here on dKos. Consider it Markos' way of letting the pot brew.

            Now, it's starting to simmer.

            When there's enough hard evidence to bring this thing to a boil, rest assured that the name Kos will be stamped proudly upon the Ziploc bag in which the evidence is presented. But, remember, it's his name we're talking about. And it's the name and the reputation of this blog. The integrity of information that emanates from this site contains with it the seeds of the very future of the blogosphere.

            Do it right, and we might be able to get our country back. FUCK IT UP -- like many are suggesting we do with poorly sourced, unverifiable and sensational claims that only serve to relegate us to the "WhoopDeeFuckingDoo" file -- and we'll quickly erase whatever power we've amassed.

            Think about it. Please. (Now...More DUE DILIGENCE!)

            Democrats: For the health, prosperity and security of every single American.

            by alysheba on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 08:30:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Kos is not a journalist (none / 0)

              This has always been an opinion blog, albeit one that, like most blogs, reports news relevant to those opinions.

              I am not asking Kos or Atrios to endorse (or even comment on) Bev Harris' latest rantings or the Madsen "Grand Conspiracy,"  but to make no mention of Kerry sending letters to all 88 Ohio county BOEs?

              That's bizarre behavior.

              There are a lot of people out there who read Atrios and Kos' front page to find pointers to the day's latest outrage.  All of the basic developments in the Ohio recount are important news.  To ignore the whole issue is inexcusable.

              Koufax Award?  Don't hold yer breath.  Will a Valentine from Terry McCauliff do?

        •  Evidence? (4.00 / 2)

          I think Kos has acted with all due responsibility in this situation. While there are a lot of angles worth investigating and some of those are bearing fruit, there's no real smoking gun yet. The statistical evidence is intriguing, as is some of today's testimony. There's a process going on, not as fast or as aggressively as some of us would like.

          This isn't tinfoil hat stuff but it's not time to start calling grand juries or arresting folks either.

          Kos hasn't censored diaries or banned anything from the recommended list. Heck, I've been reading these accounts every day from that part of the site. Kos himself says that the diaries are the most important part of the site. I know I look there before I review the front page.

          To sum it up, I think some folks have been a bit unfair to Markos. Also, I think that they have every right to their opinion. Hence, no 1's for anyone from me.

          This space for rent.

          by Danno11 on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 06:50:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If Scott Peterson... (4.00 / 2)

            could be sentenced to DEATH on a plethora of circumstantial evidence, then I think there's enough circumstantial evidence here for our society to take a second look.

            That being said, I respect Kos as an administrator on this site, and if/when he thinks this story deserves front page status, it is his pergogative to write up a story on it when he so chooses.

            While this is a huge issue for some of us, his current front page story on American casualties is also compelling.  It's not like he's been posting comics on the front page, or anything.

          •  A Kos Appeal! (none / 0)

            I know you must be reading all these diaries and comments on the election "irregularities" and recounts.  They now pretty much fill the recommended list and the associated comments are outnumbering the comments on the main page topics, something I have never seen happen on this blog!  Most of us do not want to nail you to the cross, we simply would like you to stop ignoring this topic and tell us what you think.  Do you see this as all tinfoil hat stuff, or as a hopeless crusade to put Kerry in the White House, or as simply a search for the truth, or do you have a differnt take on all this.  Your fans would like to Know?

            "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

            by Doctor Who on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 09:11:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  don't bite the hand... (none / 0)

        don't know obviously since i'm far from an insider, put me on the periphery of the milky way, but want to give kos the benefit of the doubt since he may know things that he can't share.  want to respect his reasons for marginalizing these issues and yet allowing the margins a life of their own.

        i've browsed quite a few other forums and find this one to have the most structure and yet at the time the most flexibility for issues to gather their own momentum.

        times they are a changin' so let's be ready to change with them. i will fight for every last vote to be counted and at the same time fight for my own emotional well-being to accept the inevitable, whatever that may be.

    •  Indeed. (4.00 / 4)

      WTF???

      We're supposed to think this isn't important?

      It's still "Tin foil hatty", with several elected representatives getting into it?

      AGAIN, WTF?

      "we must make the rescue of the environment the central organizing principle for civilization" - Al Gore

      by racerx on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 02:13:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's made me very sad... (4.00 / 8)

        ...that Kos has steadfastly refused to comment on election fraud, after endorsing Kid Oakland's diary implying vote-fraud concerns were tin foil, way back in very early November.

        If leading bloggers don't lead the fight for fair and non-racist elections -- elections that don't leave so many of us with that Twilight Zone or Deep-South-in-the-Fifties feeling -- I'm concerned that Election Day 2008 will be like Groundhog Day.

      •  Same with Atrios (3.60 / 5)

        One snotty "moi is not interested" sermon, silence ever since.  Guess he's afraid the Kool Kids will shun him if he touches it.  

        The syndrome has gone beyond infuriating to being genuinely pathetic.  Get over yourself,guys.  Nobody who counts cares who you think should be DNC chair.  Pay attention to your base.

        •  Am I the only one who feels offended... (4.00 / 2)

          ...by the fact that the latest main-page post is about the Koufax Awards, but not a peep about the recount?

          Am I the only one who felt abandoned by this website, as a caring Democrat, when so many so-called old guard members, including Kos, were willing and eager to examine whether the Kos rating system was broken, and whether the Kos diary system was broken, and whether the Kos membership system was broken, but not...

          ...whether the United States voting system was broken?

    •  KOS and Kid Oakland are COWARDS (1.00 / 5)

      They're just trying to angle themselves so they can get in good with the MSM and not be dismissed as conspiracy theorists, even though more and more evidence points to the fact that there was a conspiracy.

      Fucking bunch of Benedict Arnolds out for personal gain.  It would be an honor for me to get banned from this site, but I'd miss all the brave people who see KOS and KO for the wusses that they are.

      •  What the fuck... (none / 0)

        would it take, I wonder, for KOS and KO to admit to themselves that there WAS fraud?  Fucking George III saying it to their faces?  Even then they'd probably be like "oooh, we don't want to jump to any conclusions..."
        •  Where's the Ad money going, KOS? (none / 0)

          Oh yeah and while I'm at it, KOS, where's all your ad revenue from this site going?  More vacations?  I challenge you to show us your books as an endorsement of transparent accounting.

          Does everyone realize here that KOS is making TENS OF THOUSANDS OF $$$ every month off of this site, because of us readers?  That money could help a lot of Dems.

          If it is going to Dems then my bad; I just want to see the books.

      •  easy now - (4.00 / 2)

        hey spirit, I fully understand where you're coming from - BUT, I think it is actually wise of Kos to be very conservative in making any pronouncements just yet.

        dKos is widely read by non-democrats and some mainstream media as well.

        It's widely viewed as a "respectable" blog, precisely because the emphasis is on well researched and thought out arguements.

        I, too believe there was voter fraud - I also believe a number of other "theories", about 9/11, etc. that are still considered "tin foil hat" territory.  

        I know you're angry - but trust them, when the time is right, they'll come out strong, and if they don't - many many of us will join you in reaming them!

        Patience...

        •  No, Spirit is right (none / 0)

          if congressional hearings, recounts and letters from kerry aren't enough for Kos to dip a toe or at least elevate a diary then FUCK KOS. No more clicks for a chickenshit like Kos from me. peace out.
          •  I just wrote downthread - (none / 0)

            that I was having second thoughts, and maybe he's right.  Should we all be writing Kos angry emails about now?
          •  hey man let's all start our own blog (none / 0)

            whaddaya say?  we could do a lot better
          •  What bothers me.... (4.00 / 2)

            ...is that you don't have to believe there was fraud.

            Hearings by the House Judiciary Dems is news by itself. Kerry's involvement in the Ohio recount is news by itself. Reporting on this news is NOT saying you believe there was fraud. And there's clearly a ton of interest here. There are more comments on these diaries than any other.

            I don't have a problem with being cautious so as to not sound like conspiracy theorists. But being MORE conservative than main-stream media? There were, after all, more than 1000 newspapers that carried the AP story on Kerry jumping in...

            •  It's like the Sherlock Holmes story (none / 0)

              about the dog that didn't bark in the night.

              That the dog didn't bark when it should have turns out to be the clue that breaks the case.

              The silence of the "mainstream" blogs on this topic would, ironically, have been great material for those very blogs a year ago.  Curioser and curioser....

              Look!  Over there!  It's Kerick's nanny!  

          •  NO! That really upsets me. (none / 1)

            To say "Fuck Kos" on Kos's website strikes me as really out of line.  Dissent is one thing, but rudeness is another.

            The reason we are all here is because Kos has created a websight we all respect.  So let's give the guy some trust.

            He will speak up when he thinks the time is correct.

            "I don't want to name names, but they know themselves." Koffi Annan

            by Sue in NH on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 06:32:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  I assume... (4.00 / 2)

    ...questions about the number and distribution of voting machines will also be addressed?  And raw disaggregated Ohio exit poll data should also be requested from the polling organization.

    Yes, in fact, I do drive a Volvo.

    by KTinOhio on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 01:12:06 PM PDT

  •  see new article (none / 1)

    see the new free press articvle I just posted. holy cow
    art
  •  Yahoo article currently rated as 2.93 - possible 5 (none / 1)

     There were 1375 vote(s) when I weighed in and the average rating was only 2.93 in response to the question "Would you recommend this story?"

    a rating of "1" = "not at all"

    a rating of "5" = "highly"

  •  NO NOT ON AT 4:30 (none / 1)

    ON AT 4:30 EST
     LIVE
    1:00 (est.) Judicial Proceeding
    Gubernatorial Ballot Case Oral Argument
    Washington (State) Supreme Court
    The beginning and end of this live program may be earlier or later than the scheduled times.
  •  Link to brad blog (4.00 / 2)

    http://bradblogtoo.blogspot.com/

    There's an account of Clint Curtis' testimony.  For those of you joining the party a little late, he's the man who signed a sworn affadavit that he had written a vote hacking program for Congressman Feeney (then State Rep (?) Feeney) in 1999.

  •  HOT! Cobb to Conyers re Triad (4.00 / 9)

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=149 814&mesg_id=149814

    http://tinyurl.com/5pjrz

    --Quote--

    Here is a very rough transcript of what David Cobb reported at the Conyers hearing today: There were alot of dropouts on the audio, so some was garbled, so it's not a completely exact transcript, but darn close.

    ************

    Rep Conyers, I have the most recent, breaking information, it will be brief but I think very important.

    It's probably the most ? incident that has been related to my campaign, it was related only on Sunday, Dec 12th, regarding a very shockig event that occurred last Friday, Dec 10th. The person who is reporting it, at this point, wishes to remain anonymous but I will bring it to this committee because this must be investigated

    A representative from Triad Systems came into this county's BOE offices unannounced on this Friday. He said he was just stopping by to see if they had any questions about the upcoming recount. He then headed into the back room where the Triad ?? that is, the machine that COUNTS the ballots, is kept.

    The Triad representative then told them that there was a problem with the system, that the system had a bad batttery and had quote "lost all it's data" endquote

    He then took the computer apart and started swapping parts in and out of it and in another spare ??? (tower PC?) in the room

    (garbled -- something about having spare parts in his coat?)

    ...he finally reassembled everything and said that it was working, but that not to turn it off.

    He then asked which precincts would be counted in the 3% reount test, and the ones which had been selected, as if it had the right number of votes, was relayed to him, and he did something else to the tabulator.

    The Triad Systems representative suggested that if the hand recount had to match the machine count exactly, and since it would be hard to memorize the several numbers that would be need to get the count to come out exactly right, that they should post this series of numbers on the wall where they would not be noticed by observers, such that to make them look like employee information or something similar. The people doing the hand count could then, he said, (garbled -- record? those numbers?) no matter what they actually counted in the ballots.

    This would then quote "match" endquote the tabulator report for this precinct exactly.

    Conyers then replied: "David Cobb I need you to arrange a meeting with our staff immediately as soon as possible so we can go into detail on this matter"

  •  Who Will Be Ohio's Voice? (4.00 / 6)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gary Polvinale
    Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:46 AM
    To: 'People-v-Ohio-n-Florida@yahoogroups.com'
    Subject: Who Will Be Ohio's Voice?

    Yesterday in 30 degree temperature with winds that knocked me over while I was filming the Ohio Statehouse Rally, Ohioans and people from all over America who came to Ohio to help us, listened to Joan and Eve tell how they were denied access to those public records in Greene County Ohio.  I was moved beyond words when I looked into the faces of my haggard and weary fellow patriotic Ohioans who continue to persevere no matter how many obstacles are thrown in their path, no matter how tired they are, no matter how sick, how broke, how cold.  That kind of spirit is seldom seen today.

    Yes, those of us in Ohio ARE on the front lines - and it feels like we are defending the Alamo.  We are doing our part.  A handful of determined people are working themselves to exhaustion.  Yes, we ARE out there in the streets.  And we ARE at the statehouse.  And we ARE at the hearings.  And we ARE filing the lawsuits.  And we ARE out there doing the recount.  And we ARE out there knocking on doors to investigate, verify and gather the facts.

    People all over the country who are web-tracking what's happening want to help, who feel helpless, frustrated, and sorry for us in Ohio, are offering good wishes and words of encouragement.  And believe me, we appreciate the encouragement.  We do, and thank you for that.  But we here in Ohio need more than a "You can do it" pat on the back.  We ARE doing it.  But nobody knows.  Ohio is screaming the truth at the top of its lungs, literally, and no one hears us because of all the noise of the media silence.

    If you want to do something, here's what you can do to help.  I am asking the rest of the country to please get out there and find well-known people who's voices are loud enough to be heard by the press who will stand up for us.  Get a Senator or a media personality or anyone of very high profile to come out about this.  The media blackout is killing us.  Very few members of Congress, and no one in the Democratic Party has even seriously acknowledged  the recount.  This is still looked at as the "sour grapes" effort of a couple of disgruntled 3rd party candidates who can't win anyway.  It couldn't be further from that.  The civil rights of every man, woman and child in America are at stake here.

    I don't care what it takes, convince somebody to break our story, to back us and give us the credibility we need and to let the world know we're here doing this.  Redford, Sting, Kennedy, Fonda, Kerry... I don't care who, somebody, anybody who can attract the attention of the media (evidently John Conyers' and Jesse Jackson's brave voices are not loud enough.)  We've kinda got our hands full here, or we'd be doing that ourselves too.  Give us a voice and we will deliver Ohio.  Otherwise SOS Blackwell and the BOE will continue to slap us around like we don't matter a lick, at every turn.  We are being squelched by a state government that is willing to violate our rights and even break the law as often as necessary to stand in our way and prevent us from exposing what they've done.

    I watched 100 of the greatest people I've ever met freeze their butts off for three hours Sunday, and 1500 the week before.  And today people are out there at the Conyers hearing at the Columbus Statehouse again freezing, supporting the hearing, the investigation and the recount. And the Ohio recount has begun this morning.  If you want to help, please turn over every rock to find someone big who can get the media's attention who is willing to speak up for us.  We need that.  And we need it now.  We'll take care of the rest.  You'll have to pardon the tone of this message - I'm tired, I'm pissed and I'm still cold from yesterday. Thanks for anything you can do toward this.

    Gary Polvinale
    Sandusky, Ohio

  •  Cobb to Conyers re Triad (4.00 / 3)

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=149 814&mesg_id=149814

    http://tinyurl.com/5pjrz

    Here is a very rough transcript of what David Cobb reported at the Conyers hearing today: There were alot of dropouts on the audio, so some was garbled, so it's not a completely exact transcript, but darn close.

    ************

    Rep Conyers, I have the most recent, breaking information, it will be brief but I think very important.

    It's probably the most ? incident that has been related to my campaign, it was related only on Sunday, Dec 12th, regarding a very shockig event that occurred last Friday, Dec 10th. The person who is reporting it, at this point, wishes to remain anonymous but I will bring it to this committee because this must be investigated

    A representative from Triad Systems came into this county's BOE offices unannounced on this Friday. He said he was just stopping by to see if they had any questions about the upcoming recount. He then headed into the back room where the Triad ?? that is, the machine that COUNTS the ballots, is kept.

    The Triad representative then told them that there was a problem with the system, that the system had a bad batttery and had quote "lost all it's data" endquote

    He then took the computer apart and started swapping parts in and out of it and in another spare ??? (tower PC?) in the room

    (garbled -- something about having spare parts in his coat?)

    ...he finally reassembled everything and said that it was working, but that not to turn it off.

    He then asked which precincts would be counted in the 3% reount test, and the ones which had been selected, as if it had the right number of votes, was relayed to him, and he did something else to the tabulator.

    The Triad Systems representative suggested that if the hand recount had to match the machine count exactly, and since it would be hard to memorize the several numbers that would be need to get the count to come out exactly right, that they should post this series of numbers on the wall where they would not be noticed by observers, such that to make them look like employee information or something similar. The people doing the hand count could then, he said, (garbled -- record? those numbers?) no matter what they actually counted in the ballots.

    This would then quote "match" endquote the tabulator report for this precinct exactly.

    Conyers then replied: "David Cobb I need you to arrange a meeting with our staff immediately as soon as possible so we can go into detail on this matter"

    ===
    see also:
    http://tinyurl.com/644lr

  •  C-SPAN??? (none / 0)

    If anyone knows please post whether or not C-SPAN will air the hearings.  Also would be grateful to know the time on the West Coast so that I can ask someone at home to tape it.

    Thanks everyone for keeping us up to date!

  •  Startling New Revelations (Free Press) (4.00 / 4)

    Startling new revelations highlight rare Congressional hearings on Ohio vote
    by Bob Fitrakis, Steve Rosenfeld and Harvey Wasserman
    December 13, 2004

    Startling new revelations about Ohio's presidential vote have been uncovered as Democratic members of the House Judiciary Committee join Rev. Jesse Jackson in Columbus, the state capital, on Monday, Dec. 13, to hold a rare field hearing into election malfeasance and manipulation in the 2004 vote.  The Congressional delegation will include Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA), Rep. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, and others.

    Also in Franklin County, a worker at the Holiday Inn observed a team of 25 people who called themselves the "Texas Strike Force" using payphones to make intimidating calls to likely voters, targeting people recently in the prison system. The "Texas Strike Force" members paid their way to Ohio, but their hotel accommodations were paid for by the Ohio Republican Party, whose headquarters is across the street. The hotel worker heard one caller threaten a likely voter with being reported to the FBI and returning to jail if he voted. Another hotel worker called the police, who came but did nothing.

    In one exit poll affidavit, Jonathan David Simon, an expert witness, notes that at 12:53 a.m. the exit polls altered the projected winner - even though the same number of votes had been cast. "Although each update reports the same number of respondents (872), the reported results differ significantly, with the latter (12:53 a.m.) exit poll results apparently having been brought into congruence with the tabulated vote results." In other words, the exit polls were made to conform to a political decision to declare Bush the victor.

  •  Why did voters in the Ukraine protest-march... (3.87 / 8)

    ...while voters in the United States responded mainly with apathy, or a sense of helplessness, regarding this Twilight Zone election?

    There would be a diary, for example, that execs running Diebold were felons who would not even be allowed to vote in Florida, then... silence.

    There would be a diary that there was blatant African-American voter disenfranchisement, then... silence.

    There would be a diary that the very respected University of California at Berkeley did an analysis that indicated the electronic vote in Florida was rigged, then... silence.

    From Kos himself, after a post-election appearance on Air America stating that the Republicans won fairly, and the endorsement of Kid Oakland's diary... silence.

    Subsequently, following the leadership of Kos, Kid Oakland, and other very respected Kossacks, there were many posts which served to embarrass those who believed there was election fraud; made them feel their concerns were made of tin foil.

    I doubt that those who first questioned whether Yushchenko was poisoned were labeled tin foil, because citizens of the Ukraine are far less naive than we are; far more aware of how easily democracy can be stolen.

    It is a sad day indeed when voters of the former Soviet Union need serve as role models for  voters of the United States of America.

    I wonder if the Republicans have created an atmosphere in which we, as well as the mainstream media, have been subconsciously intimidated into silence.

    •  Not intimidation... (none / 1)

      The Ukrainians don't have the faith in the democratic process that Americans have.  Whether that faith is justified is another question.

      Still, remember the outrage when the Abu Ghraib pictures came out?  Remember the outrage among Catholics when the child abuse scandals came to light?  Provide a compelling case, and Americans will respond as necessary.

      Yes, in fact, I do drive a Volvo.

      by KTinOhio on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 02:45:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Abu Ghraib: not the most propitious example (4.00 / 6)

        There have been no consequences to the Administration for Abu Ghraib.  In fact, Rumsfeld and Gonzales have been rewarded.

        Torture is uncontested national policy now.  We are no longer really signatories to the Geneva Convention.

        American outrage was partial and only lasted as long as the pictures were in the news.  Real outrage would have lived on to affect policy and demand that heads roll in high places.  But since we don't talk about, and don't by-and-large see, brown non-Americans (or even Americans?  look at our prison systems) as people, and we figure "the terrorists deserve it," torture is tacitly condoned by the silent majority.

        We remain at the mercy of a moralistic elite who define morality in terms of evangelical, fundamentalist sexual ethics.  Lying, corruption, fairness, responsibility and the abuse of power over the vulnerable are all off the table.  These are not state and media sanctioned "moral" issues.

        That's why CBS and NBC refused to take the UCC advertisements.

        We are not "compassionate conservatives." We are "fighting liberals." And we'll kick your ass.

        by Pachacutec on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 02:56:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (none / 1)

        I actually think that there is less faith in the democratic process here.  Most people think all politicians are dirty, and it doesn't REALLY matter the outcome, because they're all the same, and nothing will change.

        Plus, Americans may respond for a little while (as in the Abu Ghraib), but our attention span is fairly short. I don't see much outrage anymore-it's almost as if it's just too much to bear, and not worth getting upset about anymore.

        There's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated...insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason.-NoFx

        by SairaLV on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 02:57:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Take it to the streets. (4.00 / 5)

          I agree with all of these theories, but the fact is of the matter is there are many of us who care and who are outraged. But we're not doing enough to show it.

          Look at SarahLee's post, above, entitled "Who Will Be Ohio's Voice?" There are a limited number of dedicated people who are actually demonstrating. Why aren't more of us actively engaged and out there with them? Are we really satisfied to just sit back and blog back and forth to ourselves, complain about what others are not doing, and not really accomplish much of anything ourselves?

          For example, you want THE SO-CALLED LIBERAL MEDIA to pay attention? Let's have a mass demonstration, with tens of thousands, rather than a few dozen or a few hundred. Let's have a dozen simultaneous mass demonstrations in major cities. That would do it. Hell, it might even embolden the John Kerrys and Harry Reids of the world to do something really courageous.

          The big difference between our situation today here in America and the situation in the Ukraine is those people just want it  much more than we do. We think the blessings of democracy, freedom and justice are our birthright and are supposed to just handed over, gift wrapped, on a damn silver platter. But folks, it looks like those days, if they ever were, which is highly doubtful, are gone now.

          We all happen to live in the greatest democracy in the history of the world because the Founding Fathers and millions of unsung heroes over the last 227 + years have courageously been prepared to make a stand and lay down their lives, if necessary, for freedom and justice.

          So do we or do we not answer the call of history today? How much do we value what we believe in? Are we prepared to take it to the streets for our country, for the world, for the future?

           

          •  I'd be more than happy to get all riled up... (4.00 / 2)

            but alas, all I can do it sit here and post links and such.  

            Damn law school finals.  They last for three weeks too! I wish I could blow them off and go demonstrate...

            •  Law School Finals & DailyKos (none / 0)

              make for a very bad combination.  I spend all the time I intend to study coming here to see if anything exciting is happening. All to often, DK wins out over Evidence.

              There's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated...insensitivity is standard and faith is being fancied over reason.-NoFx

              by SairaLV on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 04:40:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  That's called learned helplessness... (none / 0)

          ...and even rats get depressed in behavioral psych experiments where, instead of a fair and just reward for running the maze, they're always cheated out of the cheese.
      •  The compelling case (none / 1)

        is being made right now and the story is being totally ignored by the MSM.

        We the sheeple - BAAAAAA! are much too busy watching reality tv to get involved in true reality.  BAAAAA!    

        "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

        by givmeliberty on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 07:55:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  now I'm not so sure - (none / 0)

      I just advised Spiritof76 upthread to be patient with Kos, now I'm not so sure.


      From Kos himself, after a post-election appearance on Air America stating that the Republicans won fairly, and the endorsement of Kid Oakland's diary... silence.

      Subsequently, following the leadership of Kos, Kid Oakland, and other very respected Kossacks, there were many posts which served to embarrass those who believed there was election fraud; made them feel their concerns were made of tin foil.

      I was not aware of this - someone, tell me, is he correct in being so pissed?  I'm starting to have doubts.

      •  IMO he's absolutely correct (none / 0)

         
      •  Even given what we knew for sure ... (none / 0)

        ...about African-American voter suppression, and many other dirty tricks regarding African-American registration, both in Ohio and Florida, for example, using Florida State Troopers to intimidate elderly African-American GOTV Dems, according to Bob Herbert of the NYT...

        ...why was Kos in such a rush to judgement...

        ...the judgement being that, as he told Janeane Garofalo and Sam Seder way back on November 4th or thereabouts, the Repubs won fair and square, so Dems need to be submissive, need to do what Repubs want.

        What on earth was fair and square about this election?

        •  I just emailed Kos. (none / 0)

          this isn't the first time I've seen bitching along these lines - but as I wrote, I wasn't aware (being a newbie) of the Air America thing.
          Are you too of the opinion that Kos is trying to be like mainstream and is being too conservative?
  •  Dr. Werner Lange Study (Scoop) (4.00 / 3)

    I'm not sure if this was already posted.  Things are happening so fast!

    Anyway, if true, this is really hair-raising.  Wonder if there is any way to find out how they did it?

    More Votes than Voters in Ohio: Absentee Vote Inflated, Certified Vote in Doubt

    A careful review of the absentee vote in one Ohio county revealed that many more absentee votes were cast than there were absentee voters identified.
    All absentee voters must be identified as such by name and residence in the precinct poll books of the precinct in which they are registered. Over 100 precinct poll books in Trumbull County were checked for absentee voters and that number of actual absentee voters was compared to the certified number of absentee votes. There was an inflated difference in nearly every precinct of the five communities examined. The five communities whose poll books were carefully inspected for an absentee vote overcount are: Warren City (311), Howland TownshipThe 106 precincts of these five Ohio communities, about 39% of all precincts in Trumbull County, netted a total of 580 absentee votes for which there were no absentee voters identified in the poll books.

    "When there are more votes than voters, there is a big problem" stated Dr. Werner Lange, author of this study which would have been completed weeks earlier if Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, co-chair of the Ohio Bush-Cheney campaign, had not unlawfully ordered all 88 boards of elections to prevent public inspection of poll books until after certification of the vote.

    The absentee vote inflation rate for these five communities averages 5.5 fradulent voters per precinct. If this pattern of inflated absentee votes holds for all of Ohio's 11,366 precincts, then there were some 62,513 absentee votes in Ohio up for grabs in the last election. Who grabbed them and how they did so should be the subject of an immediate congressional investigation


    •  This is why (none / 0)

      someone should be demanding a breakout of the absentee numbers from the provisional ballot numbers.  Blackwell refused to provide these when the provisionals were being counted over the past weeks.  I assume that the numbers were maintained.
      •  His name should be "Blackorwell" (none / 0)

      •  please explain... (none / 0)

        how can they lump provisional ballots with absentee ballots?  confused.
        •  Sorry for the delay (none / 0)

          just picked up your comment.

          As I understand it, and I beleive it was widely reported in the MSM, when the provisionals were to be counted Blackwell was asked to provide vote totals for the provisionals for each county.  He stated that he would not be doing so, but rather the new totals would be reported with the absentee and provisionals lumped together with the original election night totals.  Blackwell defended his position by stating that all votes are equal and we shouldn't differentiate or some bullshit of the sort.  I think the initial recation to this was muted in that people were mostly concerned with the totals from the "additional votes" (valid provisionals + absentees).  When I saw the story regarding absentees, the earlier reporting took on a different light.  Thought I'd throw that out there for other's opinions.

          Simian, keep up the great work you are doing keeping people informed on the election issue.  I for one don't claim to know if "we was robbed" or not, but I have no patience for anyone (and there are many around here) who says that we shouldn't find out.  So keep up the good fight -- its appreciated!

          mambo

          •  Thanks, mambo! (none / 0)

            For the explanation and the encouragement.

            Re: vote counting.  It seems to me in the past they used to give separate counts for the different voting procedures, such as absentee ballots.  However, I wasn't really paying attention until 2000.  Plus I don't ever hearing so much about provisional ballots before.  Did they exist before this election, or was this just another clever way to Help America [not] Vote?

            Re: keeping people informed on the election issue.  I'm so glad that kos is here, otherwise I would be totally in the dark like the rest of the country.  I don't consider myself to be a person who is emotionally unbalanced by my grief over the Kerry  loss.  I can live with whatever happens.  But election tampering, whether or not it affects the result (and it usually does or why would it happen?) makes my blood boil.  If there is no garantee that our votes are counted, then what's the point?

            I think the SCLM spin that election tampering is just some whacky conspiracy theory is completely irresponsible, to say the least.  The language about tinfoil hats has become so uniform and pervasive almost overnight, it reminds me of the way that the phrase "bleeding heart liberal" was suddenly on everyone's lips, and then we were supposed to be ashamed of caring about other human beings.  Concern about election tampering was stigmatized as a form of insanity, it was done quickly, it was done well, and I don't think Carl Rove himself could have come up with a more efficient way to suppress post-election investigations.

            Some people back away from being stigmatized, some people change their views, some people fight it head on, and some people just don't give a shit.  I really feel deeply that this election was corrupted, so it's not something I can just give up on and walk away from, even if people call me names.

            •  simian! (none / 1)

              Re Provisionals were standardized by the HAVA.  Prior to that, there was no uniformity among the state procedures.  For instance, if you were denied the right to vote in PA, you had to go before a judge on election day.  Now all states have provisionals, although as you see, state election law still governs the specifics of their validity.

              As far as the rest, I either agree or sympathise.  

              I don't know exactly what has happened here on dkos over the past month or so.  Both the conduct of the community and the mainpage have been, in my mind, odd.  I remain perplexed by the vigor which shown by a few opposed to investigating the election.  When a similar position is taken by a politician, we call them unprincipaled, but acting in their self interest; what explains it among the dkos community?  I just don't accept the explanation that they are "protecting our reputation".  

              At a minimum, a mainpage dialogue about whether and how dkos should engage the election issues should have been held.  I think it is a bit easier to find possible explanations for that question.  However, we will not know the answer unless and until Markos chooses to wade in.  Whatever the shortcomings of kos, I agree it was a great tool during this past cycle.  I think the political tools on the net will continue to evolve and diversify.  Part of that evolution will be a discussion of how these forums relate to party and / or fixed principals and how the dialogue is controlled.  

              I'm all for having that conversation . . . after the election is over!  P-)

              Mambo!

    •  breaking news from New Zealand journalist (none / 0)

      another example of the cowardly MSM

      "With Liberty and Justice for All" Economic -7.88 / Social -6.46

      by ohshenandoah on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 09:37:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Was a Recommended Diary All Day Sunday (none / 0)

      My very first RD, BTW. And you recommended it--I thank you.

      Thanks for keeping the story out there!

  •  one of the few reasons I'm proud (3.80 / 5)

    to be from Dee-Troit rock city: John Conyers.

    I do hope that when this is all said and done, for better or worse, people who care about free and fair elections in this country remember who with the most to lose was willing to stand up to the repig machine and carry the torch on this issue. The GOPiggies have hated conyers for years, but they haven't found any way to get rid of him - I expect, though, that they will be redoubling their efforts. In fact, a week or two ago an "investigation" (re: persecution) was launched into "ethics violations" by conyers/staff, based on the specious assertion that he had staffers working on campaigns on election day. In fact, they were working to safeguard against vote fraud in michigan, but don't let facts confuse a repiggy...

    It's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. - G. Carlin

    by RabidNation on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 03:54:47 PM PDT

    •  Could you tell us when (none / 0)

      he's up for re-election?  This is one New Mexican who will certainly donate!

      "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain

      by Shaniriver on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 04:24:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  2006 (none / 0)

        Every Representative in the House stands for election every 2 years.

        U.S. Mayors to Congress: