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This is breaking news here from The Blue Lemur (Raw Story) that concerns the witness that Presidential candidate David Cobb (Green Party) brought up at the hearing today in Ohio with John Conyers.

The story is below the fold.

Correction from RAW STORY: An earlier version of this article and headline incorrectly stated David Cobb was the Libertarian candidate. Cobb was the Green Party candidate.

Witness says voting company tampered with machines after vote and tried to plant false information into Ohio recount
Filed under: General-- site admin @ 10:15 pm

Green says voting company tampered with recount effort

By John Byrne | RAW STORY Editor

David Cobb, the unsuccessful Green Party presidential candidate, aired startling allegations at the Democratic House Judiciary Committee’s Columbus hearings Monday, alleging that a voting company representative tampered with voting equipment in Columbus last Friday and attempted to plant false information into the Ohio recount.

Cobb says that a witness who had requested anonymity watched a representative of Triad Systems enter the Columbus Board of Elections unannounced and tamper with a vote tabulator which then lost all data.

The representative then, Cobb said, tried to convince employees to post false information so that it would appear as if the data was valid and had never been lost.

This following is RAW STORY ’s transcript Cobb’s speech as recorded by Inside Track News’ broadcast (mp3 file), an independent media outlet that covered the event. The story has been followed in detail at The Brad Blog.

“A representative from Triad Systems came into this county‚Äôs Board of Election’s office unannounced, that is on this Friday. He said he was just stopping by to see if they had any questions about the upcoming recount.

“He then headed into the back room where Triad supplies tabulators, that is the machine that counts the ballots, is kept. This Triad representative told them that there was problem with the system, that the system had a bad battery and it had ‘lost all its data.’

“He then took the computer apart and started swapping parts in and out of it. And in another [incomprehensible] in the room. And he had spare parts in his coat, as one of the people moved in [sic] remarked how very heavy it was.

“He finally reassembled everything and said it was working but not to turn it off. He then asked which precinct would be counted in the 3 percent recount test and that one which had been selected as if it had the right number of votes was relayed to him he then went back and did something else to the tabulator.

“The Triad Systems representative suggested that since the hand recount had to match the machine count exactly and since it would hard to memorize the several numbers which would be needed to get the count exactly right, that they should post this series of numbers on the wall where they would not be noticed by observers such as to make them look like employee information or something similar.

“The people doing the hand count could then he said just report those numbers no matter what the actually counted in the ballot. This would then ‘match’ the tabulator report for this precinct exactly.

Minority leader of the House Judiciary Committee Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) replied, “David Cobb, I need to you to arrange a meeting with our staff immediately.”

Cobb asserted that such practices were “going on across the state.”

The Cleveland Free Press’ Editor David Fitrakis also submitted a list of documented Ohio voting irregularities Dec. 8, which Conyers’ office has posted online in pdf format.


Correction: An earlier version of this article and headline incorrectly stated David Cobb was the Libertarian candidate. Cobb was the Green Party candidate.


Originally posted to sixmoreweeks on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 07:31 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Cobb is the Green Party candidate duh (none)
    John Byrne starts out on the wrong foot. He better get that corrected to restore his credibility!

    I'm not left or right. I'm ahead. Progressives for the future!

    by weirdscenes on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 07:17:40 PM PST

      •  Maybe they should fix the diary also n/t (none)

        "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King, Jr. _______ "We will not be silent." -Howard Dean

        by jigsaw68 on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 10:56:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  "Fixed already" You mean the Cobb ... (4.00)
        or the 'election'?

        Cant be the election. The election couldnt have been fixed.

        Because ... psssst! -->> the New York Times hasnt said so.

        Not a hint. Not a whisper.

        I stopped reading the NYT months ago, just go there when linked or when I hear of something interesting. And I have heard that mum is still the word there and elsewhere.

        I have to wonder if this massive silence is not a conspiracy of silence of all of them: GOP (wrongdoers) Dems (enablers) MSM (um ... yeah) because they are simply too embarrassed to reveal the tawdry Banana Republicanism to which our nation has sunk. I mean, its not like they have to write it on tin foil or wear the hat (as I do, so well, I might add). They could just report the alleged hijinks, the complaints, the observations, the doings, the goings-on: um, like congressional investigations for starters! A contest! Etc!

        Going outside the conspirators' circle where MUM's the word reigns supreme, Thom Hartmann was quite good today ... he filled in for Randi. Good on the election and other matters. Randi has also been superb on our democracy's crack up, serving up news wrapped in big, bad, banana leaves daily.

        •  URGENT: need help looking over data (4.00)
          While looking into Triad, I noticed their "Customer Login".. well after a little googling(tm) and voila..

 - 13k
          etc. etc.

          Please help me compare these with official county results. Notice the dates were from a run on Nov 17th & Nov 29th, etc. It could just be copies, or maybe they actual run the data and send it back to the BoE for these counties.
          •  OHIO County BoE webpages HOSTED by TRIAD (4.00)
            Crap! I noticed looking over a few county webpages, they are hosted by Triad and identical cookie-cutter pages!


            From Triad webpage:
            Have you seen our "one-stop" place for election information?

            From Netcraft:
            Domain Name              IP        Netblock Owner
          Microsoft-IIS/5.0 LNH Inc.
    Microsoft-IIS/6.0  LNH Inc.

            It gets even WORSE!! Look at whois!
            Domain Name: ELECTIONSONTHE.NET

            Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
            Rapp, Brett A. (SVSHECVSXI)
            TRIAD Governmental Systems Inc
            358 S. Monroe Street
            Xenia, OH 45385
            Record created on 02-Jul-1998.

            Domain Name: TRIADGSI.COM

            Administrative Contact:
            Rapp, Brett A. (SVSHECVSXI)
            TRIAD Governmental Systems, Inc.
            358 S. Monroe Street
            Xenia, OH 45385
            Record created on 19-Jun-1998.
          •  TRIAD (none)
            Okay, I am working on a story about this and I think I may have something, I need all of you to send me whatever you have... I need to see how my info compares. Please and thank you.

            Larisa Staff Writer - Raw Story/Blue Lemur Raw Story Staff Writer

            by Larisa on Wed Dec 15, 2004 at 12:55:31 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  This is the key report, check the time and precinc (none)

            Larisa Staff Writer - Raw Story/Blue Lemur Raw Story Staff Writer

            by Larisa on Wed Dec 15, 2004 at 01:03:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  EVIDENCE... (none)

            Larisa Staff Writer - Raw Story/Blue Lemur Raw Story Staff Writer

            by Larisa on Wed Dec 15, 2004 at 01:07:17 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe the fix IS in? (none)
          Is Triad GSI of Xenia, Ohio in any way connected to Rapp Systems of Xenia, Ohio?

          Brett A. Rapp is President and Dwayne A. Rapp is Vice-President of Triad GSI.

          Tod A. Rapp of Rapp Systems donated $500 to George W. Bush and $500 to the Republican National Committee in February 2004.

          Very curious. Especially since links to, which posts links to results from Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, South Carolina and Tennessee. . .

          . . .AND, a link to a site selling infamous Votomatic Butterfly Ballot voting machines--"This will truly be a valuable conversation piece to represent this [2000 Florida] memorable election."

          •  $250 More (none)
            Tod gave the RNC another $250 in August 2003.

            More donations in past election cycles, too.

            •  I gave similar amounts... (none)
              to our side...  

              DFA, ACT K/E '04, ACLU, Interfaith Alliance, etc...

              His ties to GOP, and the alleged fact above about writing programs to tally votes should be investigated to insure impartialitytransparency, but those donation amounts are consistent with amounts we gave to our side...

              Donating $$$ tends to show which side one leans politically, but should not be a precursor to "trouble", and in my eyes is not a baaad condemable action...

          •  Yes, they are one and the same (none)
            Check out the shuttle tile, um ring a bell?

            Larisa Staff Writer - Raw Story/Blue Lemur Raw Story Staff Writer

            by Larisa on Wed Dec 15, 2004 at 12:56:59 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  BEST ADVICE (none)
          I stopped reading the NYT months ago

          Now there is a good idea.  Hey - beougeoisie america - guess what your nytimes is not so holy!  hows the peterson trial?

  •  huh? (none)
    For the life of me, I cannot parse this one sentence:

    He then asked which precinct would be counted in the 3 percent recount test and that one which had been selected as if it had the right number of votes was relayed to him he then went back and did something else to the tabulator.


    •  Explained (4.00)
      They are not recounting the entire state, just 3 percent of the precincts.  

      So basically, these precinct machines show a Kerry win (or larger vote percentage than reported by the county central tabulator), hence:

      Bush Admin Launches Plan to CYA in Ohio Recount:

      1. Triad tech erases the real machine count (which had Kerry doing well).
      2. Tech hand inputs "reported number" (which was phony and had Bush doing well).
      3. Tech the instructs precinct personnel to cheat to match the hand recount to the phony number that was tweaked at the Diebold central tabulator level.

      Voila!  A recount of a fraudulent election that comes up legitimate!

      Nice one, Rove.

    •  Got me. (none)
      I read it 6 or 7 times and nothing.

      We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty. DA

      by nonverbalcoma on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 07:45:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  how hand recounts are performed.... (4.00)
        Before a full hand recount of a county is done, a hand recount of 3% of the votes (or precincts) is done to determine if there is a need for a full, countywide recount---if there is no (significant) change in the totals from the 3% count, it is assumed that the entire county was counted correctly.  (The precincts to be counted are chosen by the person requesting and paying for the recount.)

        Thus, in order to ensure that a full recount is not done in the county, a "fix" was needed to ensure that the results of the 3% recount would show no change.  

        •  I read (none)
          that the 3% are 'chosen randomly' by the BOE. Hunh
          •  Make you wonder about NH? n/t (none)
            •  New Hampshire? (none)
              Every state, county, precinct that voted on the God damned machines.

              "There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." - Walt Whitman.

              by Pescadero Bill on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 08:20:24 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I meant the recount (none)
                Nader recounted a few precincts and reported that his results matched the official totals, so forget the exit polls, all was on the up and up and Democrats are just losers. Now, if the Bad Guys, given advance notice of which precincts will be hand-counted, have the ability to screw with those precincts....was my point.
          •  Well, they're not doing that. (4.00)
            Blackwell's official instruction to the county offices was to use whatever method they wanted to for the 3%. That's apparently what he calls random.

            Reports have already come out that the precincts were not selected randomly, and that they were pre-selected before observers arrived.

            •  The party requesting the recount... (none)
              does not get to pick the 3%. They are to be picked randomly by the BOE.If there is a discrepancy of any kind then a county wide hand count MAY be requested. That won't happen immediately and will require a whole new series of filings and payments. It could take awhile.
    •  Gibberish (none)
      1. Wanted to which precinct would receive the 3% recount.

      2. Then ? I'm not sure. He was told which machine to fix?

      3. Fiddled with the tabulator AGAIN.

      I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. - Susan B. Anthony

      by BuckMulligan on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 07:49:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  He was speaking fast (none)
      so the transcription is poor. The audio is here.

      Of course there is no Columbus County in Ohio. Cobb doesn't actually identify the county.

    •  Sure: (none)
      Noun phrase (subject)
      Verb phrase (verb)
      "then asked"
      Noun phrase (object)
      "which precinct would be counted in the 3 percent recount test and that one which had been selected as if it had the right number of votes was relayed to him he then went back and did something else to the tabulator."

      The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.

      by SensibleShoes on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 05:39:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What's up with this? (none)
    In New Mexico, a district judge in Santa Fe refused to order an immediate recount of presidential votes, saying the matter should wait until the state canvassing board takes it up on Tuesday.

    The board's chairman, Gov. Bill Richardson, reiterated his opposition to the statewide recount sought by the Libertarian and Green parties' candidates, saying it ``will not reform our election laws.''

    •  NM recount info: (4.00)
      I got this from the people coordinating the recount observer volunteers.

      Dear xxxxx

      We still anticipate that the recount will take place, but it probably will not occur until the end of this week at the earliest.  Here is the situation as we understand it.

      1.  The groups requesting the recount applied for a Writ of Mandamus, requiring the State Canvassing Board to start the recount.  Judge Carol Vigil today refused the request, presumably because the Board is due to meet tomorrow at 5 pm.  She said that if the Canvassing Board did not start the recount, that the appellants should come back to her court on Wednesday at 8:30 am.  She said she would keep jurisdiction of the case.  Those who are able are asked to go to the Roundhouse at 5 pm tomorrow (Tuesday) with signs, to emphasize support for the recount.  The Board is composed of the Secretary of State, the Governor, and a justice of the Supreme Court.


      (The writ of mandamus was filed by Lowell Finley, a lawyer from Berkeley, who was also part of the volunteer training staff. Help America Recount organization.  Lowell stated he was fully committed to forcing the recount to happen, which is what he is having to do. Richardson is not very on board with this, and there are going to be demonstrators out there. tommorrow. This has been dragging out for days.

      New Mexico was selected as a place to make a stand in part because it has a large activist base already in place. There were almost 100 people at the Santa Fe training on Saturday, on one day's notice.  They did another group in Albuquerque. If it goes ahead, I've been asked to go out to Union County, in far northeastern New Mexico, whose 1800 or so voters went for Bush by an alleged 77%.)


      1.  The state recount organization assumes that the recount will not start before Friday.  We have contacted the offices of the County Clerk for the counties for which we are responsible (San Miguel, Guadalupe, Mora, Colfax, Union, Harding) to alert them that we intend to have observers present for the recount.  None, (with the possible exception of San Miguel) had any information from the Secretary of State's office, so had no plans for the recount, nor any idea how long it might take.  The San Miguel County Clerk thinks that his recount can be done in two days.  Since San Miguel has more than twice the number of ballots of any of the other counties, we suspect that those with the smallest numbers will be able to finish within one day, or at most two.  Colfax, with the second largest number, may take two days.

      2.  Several of us were able to go to a training session in Santa Fe on Saturday.  We were given a booklet of instructions, but there wasn't time for an adequate discussion.  Those instructions will be made available to us by electronic means, and we will pass them along to those who are likely to act as observers as soon as we can.  We should also be able to provide a log form, to record information from the recount.

      3.  We will have a coordinator at a central location, to whom questions arising during the recount can be referred.  If the coordinator doesn't know the answer, she will contact one of the main coordinators and get back to the original questioner.  We will let you know closer to the time who that coordinator will be and how to get in touch with her.  Communication from each site will be facilitated if at least one person has access to a cell phone, especially for those working outside Las Vegas.

      4.  Thanks to the enthusiastic responses of many volunteers, we anticipate being able to provide good coverage for all of the six counties, although problems may arise if the recount starts later than Friday, or goes past that day.

      5.  We'll inform you immediately when we know when the recount will start.


      So I'm waiting for the call...

      don't always believe what you think

      by claude on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 09:56:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  <FrameCop> Let's All say Audit (4.00)
        not recount.  Recount is more about changing results. Audit is about proving results, (or finding cheaters). The only people against an audit are those with something to hide.
        •  accounting for the vote (4.00)
          I want an accounting more than a recounting anyway. I want an accounting for:

        • the Warren county lockdown- including the FBI fiction
        • the distribution of voting machines
        • the  Greene County pre-recount lockdown
        • the  Greene County un-lockdown
  •  I hope he is resisting (none)
    because of some directions from Kerry to hold off for some reason (which would be frustratingly bizzarro as well) and not to cover up for some failed dem organized fraud.  If anybody on our side stepped even SLIGHTLY out of bounds this election, the SCLM will let the rethugs pwn the debate yet again.

    bloggers: we watch the watchmen.

    by Ugluks Flea on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 07:56:26 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  dunno (none)
      Kinda weakens our argument when a dem governor with suspicious election activity in his state won't back a recount.  
      •  Could it be.. (none)
        that the Dems know the election was stolen and are afraid that if it comes out it will tear the nation apart? So for the sake of preserving the Union they want to put this election behind them and perhaps hold any evidence they have over the heads of the Repugs the next four years? Maybe swap it for a Supreme Court judge?

        There's so much silence from all parties all I'm left to do is speculate. And if my speculation is correct, it will actually make me feel a little bit better knowing the Dems might actually be in a position of some power, and BushCo are left somewhat impotent and having to deal with their own mess.

        That is of course provided they clean up the election process for 2006 and beyond.

        "There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." - Walt Whitman.

        by Pescadero Bill on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 08:39:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting thought (none)
          And one I've had myself recently. I do believe everyone (MSM, Dems, etc.) are scared shitless that this election was stolen too. It means we no longer live in a democracy... and the implications are huge... can you imagine what it would do to the morale of the troops if they were to learn that their beloved and trusted Commander in Chief stole two elections and sent them to die in a war that was based on lies?? What would happen in every minority community around this country if the "truth" came out?

          I'm sensing anarchy.

          Jaded Reality... "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose"

          by spiderleaf on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 09:03:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  too late (none)
          torn apart?

          we are already there.  the press/GOP loves the quaint red/blue state dichotomy, a nice complement to black and white vision of the thugs in office.  as long as we let them frame our lives, we'll never get the picture.

          the burden of actual thought is what makes being a liberal so hard

          by cracklins on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 10:53:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Until things are on fire (none)
            and the streets are covered with broken glass, we're not "already there."

            I'm not condoning the notion, mind you. It would be a far, far better thing if the U.S. dealt with reality before we reach that point.

          •  I'm talking (none)
            TORN apart like riots in the streets, major conflicts in the military hirarchy.

            What if Bush refuted the evidence and refused to leave? What athority would/could force him?

            These are the potential issues we'd be facing.

            If they cheated they broke the law, and personally I think you have to stand by the rule of law no matter the consiquence short term or otherwise to our democracy.

            "Damn the torpedoes full steam ahead!"

            "There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." - Walt Whitman.

            by Pescadero Bill on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 11:39:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  We need to get this out in the mainstream media!! (none)

     Is Cliff Arnebeck bringing this info up?

     Does he know about it?

     What about Kerry's lawyers?

     Can they be contacted about now declaring this election invalid?

     How can we put this out there in the mainstream media?

    •  write to them (none)
      call them.

      (best to do so as a Concerned Nonpartisan Voter who merely has heard rumors and wants more info-- rather than a partisan. The MSM doesn't like partisans. Not partisans on the left, anyways.)

      The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.

      by SensibleShoes on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 05:42:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Electoral fraud is not news (none)
      The corporate media are very busy already, thank you.  They've got to interview all of the Peterson trial jurors, and then it's off to some other sensationalist trial of a jock/celebrity/kooky personality.  Bush's inauguration will be a big news event, and so will any trials in Iraq.  Of course there is the Iraq war, which must have non-coverage, so this means lots of fluff about celebrities, medicine/health scams, and of course the terrible UN corruption of the oil for food program -  those damn foreigners, why can't they be virtuous like us Americans?  Hmpppfhhhhhh, us Americans are so much better than the entire WORLD!  WE RULE!

      Then there's all the time for the blowhard shows like O'Reilly, Matthews, Hannity, etc.  Lots of shouting means that they get the REAL news.  They don't let their guests get away with slippery answers!  

      In other words, there is no way in hell the corporate media will ever turn this electoral fraud into a news media circus on the order of the Peterson trial or whatever.  And frankly, most Americans don't want to think about it.  The accumulated evidence shows that fraud is very likely to have happened, and if so, then the conclusion would be that our democracy no longer functions, and that Bush is a dictator.  The public either doesn't care, or wants Bush as their dictator, or (greatest portion) is too afraid to deal with such news and so would go into denial.  As long as Americans have their SUVs and their homes and their TeeVee, they will tolerate a dictatorship.  Of course they won't ADMIT it's a dictatorship, rather, they will deny the truth and rally around the flag.  Same old shit.

      Once we plunge into an economic abyss, or a catastrophic oil crises, everything will change overnight.  Take away those SUVs, and the video pacifiers in everyone's living-rooms, then all bets are off.  

      "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

      by Subterranean on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 11:06:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  County Tabulators (4.00)

    Well, this is very interesting... This "technician" had to come in and adjust (presumably by replacing hard disks and memory cards) the vote totals on the precinct tabulators. This seems to imply that the fraud actually happened at the country tabulator level or above. Very interesting indeed...

    Its like the media listened to Weird Al's "Dare to be Stupid" and said "Yes! This is how the world should be!"

    by RHunter on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 08:58:42 PM PST

    •  This has always been the most plausible scenario (4.00)
      The diebold voting machines, and their auditproof, glitch-prone nature are, IMHO, a red herring. The real vulnerability is the insecure tabulating systems which aggregate results from individual EVM and optical-scan voting machines in precincts.
      This is why matching the precinct counts with those reported by the tabulator is critical, and why criminal acts surrounding the hand tally in green county are very disturbing.
      •  Central tabulator counts changed in 90 seconds (none)
        Bev Harris demonstrated changing the Diebold GEMS central tabulator software vote totals on a cable TV program.  It took her all of 90 seconds, these are just regular Windows type machines, and it was as easy as opening a file in Excel and changing the numbers.

        Ohio may use different central tabulators, but that is definitely the place to change totals.  The DRE (Diebold and others) machines are more likely to steal the votes on a retail basis by using purposefully mis-registered touch screens where the "Bush" active area is larger than that for "Kerry".  This sort of thing was widely reported, and many voters may not have carefully reviewed the summary screen.

        Anyone who doubts that Bush/Rove would not steal votes is seriously disconnected from reality.  They probably also believed that Iraq had WMD!

        •  There's more than one way to do it (4.00)
          There's more than one way to do it. Strategically you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, either. If you execute multiple hacking methods, and one gets found out, you just blame that on a faulty system or a rogue technician. Then, because everyone will be looking for the same pattern elsewhere, they'll miss that in other places you carried out the hack at a different level, by a different method, with a different kind of personnel.
          • film (none)
            illustrates 3 general methodologies for hacking...and there are many Yobie Benjamin from Votewatch puts it, the "attack surface" of the voting systems is very broad and deep.
    •  We Have An Old Fashion Conspiracy At Minimum (4.00)
      If indeed this particular informant is telling the truth, then what the technician has suggested to the poll workers amounts to an "old fashion criminal conspiracy"; not only against him, but also against those other poll workers who simply assented to his illicit suggestions. There can be no question about that. And if anything was in fact done in furtherance of said illegal plan by anyone, then we have clear cut cases of "obstruction of justice." Besides these two particular classes of criminal violations, we have very specific violations of Ohio and Federal Statutory Election Laws by all; and most assuredly, the technician who apparently erased existing voting results. Unquestionably, we're talking about hard jail time for some here -assuming the adequacy of proof.  

      Furthermore, if we can get some of those other poll workers to flip, we might have the makings of a nascent tidal wave. Under that scenario, all the tabulators in the State of Ohio provided by the company that employed this technician would be subject to great legal scrutiny and potential disqualification as would that company itself as well as all the election officials at any precinct where those same vote tabulators were in actual use on election day.    

      Naturally, we need to test the veracity of this informant before a formal investigation can take place and perhaps blossom. Indeed, this developing story bears close watching. Even though, right now, there appears to be sufficient reasonable suspicion to impound the subject machines - in either a civil or criminal action - in order that any evidence might be preserved and subsequently tested by experts who should by sheer necessity be made privy to all source codes. But will someone attempt to do that? Who knows? I guess it's always been a matter of who has the "nads" to act and act decisively. Damn, why can't we find an honest D.A. in Ohio when we need one?      

      •  Smells like Rove (none)
        I'm pretty unwilling to give credence to anyone who wants to remain anonymous. I realize that person may have a dog that he'd like to keep healthy. But I think it'd be too easy for Rove to plant someone like this to discredit the entire recount process.
        •  'scuze me, but (4.00)
          Please, everybody, let's stop posting these "It must be Rovian disinformation" every time there's a trace of potentially serious evidence emerging. To just the degree that we're doing this, Rove wins. If his tactic was to convince the wider public not to trust any such information, well, it's worked so well that not even partisans like ourselves are trusting information any more.

          Of course we should be diligent. But we should be diligent not just in skepticism, but also in pursuit of the evidence and truth. We must not by default discount the best leads. While we should not stake our own reputations on their being true before we're sure of it (the Rather mistake), they don't have to be fully proven to be cause for reasonable suspicion and public investigation. That's what investigation is for.

          •  I agree (none)
            And I believe this anonymous individual was a trusted member of the Green Party... who Rove would have had to have planted before the election... I just don't see him caring about the greens as much now that Ralph is gone to have done so...

            But of course, I wouldn't put it past him, so of course we should check his creds, just like anyone elses.

            Jaded Reality... "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose"

            by spiderleaf on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 09:06:54 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Yes (4.00)
            Remember that in Ohio every county Board of Elections is made up of four people, two Democrats and two Republicans. Now, although the hired Election Director seems to be invariably Republican (even highly Democratic Counties) there must be plenty of patronage type jobs given out to friends and family of the democratic board members.  So there must be few democrats around even in the highly Republican counties with eyes and ears in the right places.

            Also, even in this day and age, there are plenty of good republicans that want to do the right thing. And, the entire paleo-conservative wing of the republican party would like to take the neo-cons down a peg or two.

  •  [SNIF - SNIF] (4.00)
    <Begin Public Address Mode>
    <Begin feedback>
    <End Feedback>
    <Begin Kenneth Blackwell voice>
    May I have your attention please.  There is a report that there is smoke in the building.  All personnel are reminded that this is a non-smoking facility.  There is no smoking in the building. Because where there is smoke there is fire.  Therefore all traces of smoke must be removed immediately.  Thank you.

    <End Blackwell>

    Sorceress Sarah

    It is no accident that Liberty and Liberal are the same word.

    by Sorceress Sarah on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 09:04:57 PM PST

  •  OT: Pressing question (none)
    I have just gone through most of today's diaries, and I have a pressing question that perhaps someone here could answer:

    Did Ohio Democrats send an alternate slate of electoral votes to the electoral college?

    Thanks in advance to any Kossack who can answer this question.

    "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by skunky wazoo on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 09:12:20 PM PST

    •  No. (none)
      Doesn't mean it can't be done later, though, if a recount went to Kerry or fraud was proven.
      •  My understanding was that electors (none)
        sent their votes to the electoral college today, and that Blackwell stalled certification of the Ohio results as long as possible in able to insure that the recount wouldn't occur until Ohio's electoral votes were in the bag.

        I am surprised that Ohio Dems didn't send a competing slate to the electoral college in the event that the recount overturns Blackwell's "certified" results.

        I would love to be proven wrong, but I think today was our last chance to truly contest Ohio's electoral votes.  I believe Hawaii sent competing slates to the EC in 1960.

        "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

        by skunky wazoo on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 09:48:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think you are correct except (none)
          for the possibility that a strong argument could be made for replacement of electors chosen as a result of fraud.  I'm out of my element here but I have wondered about the issue you raise.  


  •  It should be possible to identify the technician, (4.00)
    I mean, we know the company, we know where he was and at what hour. . . that information should be discoverable through any investigation, or even investigative journalism, right?

    So, young man, just what were you doing?  What did you replace?  Were you aware that your efforts were illegal?  One whose orders or authority did you act?  Come come, young man, be clear with your answers!

    If our values are real, then we have to get real with our values.

    by Pachacutec on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 09:14:07 PM PST

  •  KOS you damn coward (1.92)
    elevate these stories now.  I think the folks here who have their eyes open should all migrate to a new blog with leadership that is committed to pursuing these stories
    •  That's uncalled for (3.50)
      Calling Kos a coward because he won't elevate, as of now, unverifiable information is wrong.  There have been too many of these types of stories that have later been proven false.  If we have any hope of being taken seriously we can't start crying fowl every time someone makes a statement.  There have been multiple front page posts in voter problems and the recommenced diaries are the perfect place to bring this to everyone's attention.

      When your opponent is drowning, throw the son of a bitch an anvil. - James Carville

      by sgilman on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 09:32:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The mainpage (none)
        is filled with "unverifiable" stories, and while there is a mainpage diary about the WA recount today, there have not been any FL / OH presidential irregularities stories (many of which are not only verifiable by verified) on the mainpage.  The concern is legitimate.  Whatsmore, despite attempts to make those who continue to be concerned about the election results appear to be a minority on Kos, all the diary attention, as well as variuos polls, indicate that the vast majority of kosacks want more, and more prominent, attention paid to this issue.  What's at the bottom of it?  i don't know.  I doubt it is cowardice.  A few weeks before the election, Kos posted about the risk that dissenters were taking in speaking out about any aspect of the KE campaign or thgeir tactics, in doing so, he stated that dkos is a "Democratic" blog.  That was the first I had heard that party affiliation which though not formal is certainly real if expressed by Markos.  Perhaps that has something to do with the decision to push the election stories off the mainpage.


        •  I've been curious about this, too. (4.00)
          It is Kos's blog and he can exercise discretion as he chooses, but I am a bit surprised that an issue of this magnitude (the right to vote being the very foundation of our "democracy") has been addressed only briefly in passing while the future of the DNC has been up front and center for the past two weeks.

          I think that the grassroots has been examining how and to what degree voter fraud took place November 3, whereas Kos is more interested in the future of the party.

          Unfortunately, we will always be a minority party if these issues are not addressed by those in a position to bring the issues front and center.

          My 2¢.

          "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

          by skunky wazoo on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 10:17:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Is calling Kos a coward a way to get attention? (4.00)
          Whatsmore, despite attempts to make those who continue to be concerned about the election results appear to be a minority on Kos, all the diary attention, as well as variuos polls, indicate that the vast majority of kosacks want more, and more prominent, attention paid to this issue.

          I really doubt calling Kos a coward is going to get his attention. All I'm saying is that posting every thing that comes up can come back to bite you if it's proven false.  There have been front page post's on these issues.  Some examples can be found  here,   here and here.

          Do we really need to keep turning on our own on this issue?  The information is getting out and people have taken notice.  Plus, the recommended diaries that are important stay front and center far longer then front page posts that are pushed off the front page rather quickly.

          When your opponent is drowning, throw the son of a bitch an anvil. - James Carville

          by sgilman on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 10:30:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I didn't call kos a coward (none)
            that comment / suggestion was made by someone else upthread.  On the contrary, my post rejects that idea.  Please re-read.


          •  BTW (none)
            I missed Hunter's mainpage post yesterday.  Thanks for the link.


          •  Huh? This information on election fraud... (none)
            is trickling out slower than molasses over hide glue. If even the SCL New York Ttimes hasn't mentioned the shenanigans in Ohio - and it hasn't, I read that rag ever day and I know whereof I type - then what newspaper or TV news organization will? I mean besides Keith Olbermann on MSNBC?
          •  Coward or otherwise... (none)
            we're running out of time. The more attention this gets the better. There should be regular updates on the front page with a simple disclaimer. We need more and more people talking about this and keeping an interest.

            We have the wrong person in the WH once again in the most critical time in this nation's history. Is there anything more important.

            "There is no week nor day nor hour when tyranny may not enter upon this country, if the people lose their roughness and spirit of defiance." - Walt Whitman.

            by Pescadero Bill on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 08:11:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Crying "foul" as in bad ... (none)
        as in Kos is bad? Or "fowl" as you wrote? As in Kos is chicken? (Bwawk bwawk!)

        Just askin' ;-)

        Man but the silence is [[[deafening]]] isnt it?

        Tonight Charlie Rose had on Ralphie (Dorian Grey) Reed.

        This morning Washington Journal had non related guests, cant recall the line-up.

        Mike Malloy of AAR was just ranting that MSM's coverage all day long was Peterson!!!/Peterson!!!/Peterson!!! Because the torch wielding villagers vengeful aye for the Death Penalty won the day ... (Larry King mustve climaxed today, no? ... right on his show ... Eeeew, I know, I know! Still ... Betcha he did.)

        •  I rarely watch MSM (none)
          Therefore I totally missed the Carnival o Madame DeFarges, maniacally knitting up stories about Peterson's impending murder by state. Depend on others to tell me what the MSM is up to.

          Wonder if Amy Goodman will have something on the latest electoral hijinks tomorrow.

          I have taken to recording Olbermann just to check his election coverage. Those bits are great, just for being there, but not very comprehensive or in depth and I can do without most of the rest of his offerings. Not exactly concerned with what ex-Apprentices have to say ... about current apprentices. Or visa versa. Oh, a pox on the lot of them!

          I figure when one of the DEAFENingly silent mainstream news sources (that is virtually ALL of them, including Kos' mainpage, exempting Olbermann) FINALLY reports on the Banana Republic nature of the Election we just had, it will be made known to all of us right quick.

          Because it will stand out ... as something unnatural ... like a totally quiet New York Rush Hour ... like the appearance of a brain in Bush's head ...

        •  Breaking the silence (none)
          I wondered if the play on words was intentional or not myself.
    •  Go right ahead . . . (3.00)
      nobody will stop you if you want to leave.  That's the beauty of the blogosphere.
    •  blitz the main page (4.00)
      One option for us is to bombard those "main page" stories with this issue.  I don't really consider it freeping because the popularity of these recommended diaries clearly shows what the koz base actually wants to talk about.

      Here's my contribution added to the "Durbin on Dean" post:

      the massive topical disconnect between main page entries like this one and the recommended diaries to the right continues to grow.  take a look at the recommended ones -- nearly all of them are about voter suppresion and fraud in FL and OH.

      I think Dean is great, but who the hell cares who the chairperson of the DNC is if we don't have fair elections in which to field candidates?!

      I advise all of you to stop fantasizing about your ideal scenarios for 2006, 2008, and beyond, and instead get informed of what is breaking NOW.  Even if we get 1000 Deans into the DNC, that's not going to convince the growing masses of people who feel disenfranchised and that our election process is now rigged to suddenly get more involved.

      Until we can ensure fair elections, no other issue really matters.

      theo-con republicans: fear democracy, smear patriots, loathe paper trails

      by tsurube on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 10:31:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right, but (4.00)
        All of us who want to keep track can do so pretty well through the Recommended Diaries, and the sites linked off of them. Meanwhile, KOS like Kerry keeps plausible deniability. When politics turns criminal we're just one step this side of warfare. Warfare in this case can include a massive shutdown of remaining civil liberties, under pretext of national defense. So it's important not to bring out the biggest guns - including front page, official placement of these concerns by KOS or Kerry - until all forces are in position to retake the government in a blitz. That means, especially, getting all the evidence gathered, which is best done with a degree of stealth, since too hard a charge gives the enemy more excuses to just shut down the process against "partisan and even treasonous abuse," while effectively suspending the rest of the Constitution.

        But I'm just imagining this. Pay no attention to the men behind the curtain.

    •  You first. (none)
      If you're looking for tinfoil hat sites where people don't require evidence to back up the latest conspiracy theory, there are plenty out there.

      The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.

      by SensibleShoes on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 05:46:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't like that I agree with you (none)
      Kos doesn't have to endorse allegations of election fraud or tampering to post them. Why would it be crazy or loony to simply post what people are telling the members of the House Jucidiary Committee? Report what they were told, dammit! It is completely verifiable, via video of the hearings that have taken place, that these Dem House members are listening to allegation after allegation of evidence for voter fraud, voter supression, vote machine vulnerability, voting "irregularities" (that seem to only favor Bush), etc. etc, from respected and conserned citizens, lawyers, activists, specialists, etc.


      Not worthy of a post by Kos on the main part of the page?!

      I find that some of my emotional anger at election fraud has ended up being diverted to Kos because he won't give it legitamacy.

      •  Um... (none)
        emotional anger at election fraud . . . diverted to Kos because he won't give it legitimacy

        How does a personal endorsement by Kos legitimize this story, or any story for that matter?

        I mean, not to be disrespectful, but the mere fact that Kos is fixated on the DNC it hasn't exactly convinced me it's the story of the century. In fact, it's hard not to stifle a yawn every time I see yet another story about how some wonk or other is scheming to out-maneuver some other wonk. Far as I'm concerned, in the final analysis, nobody'll pay a rat's-ass worth of attention to that position anyway if anyone but Dean gets it.

        But, it's his blog, and he's entitled to his own fixation, which is no more or less obsessive-compulsive than the vote-fraud obsession. If he wants to be Switzerland on vote fraud, so be it. (after all, like the man said, "In Switzerland they had brotherly love--they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.")

        he's not the kind of wheel you fall asleep at

        by bopes on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 12:05:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Complete Cobb testimony on technician's actions (4.00)
    is now available on the website at

    The New Mexico recount info is also there at

    •  The whistleblower.. (none)
      has supposedly testified in private to the Judiciary Committee. The tech was making the rounds of several counties. Hopefully one of them has a Democratic DA so they can get this guy behind bars.
  •  What database do they use? (none)
    First, I have no idea if this person is just full of it or not but assuming they are telling the story of what they saw accurately....

    How would the tabulator lose all the data due to a "dead battery"?

    One would think they would be using a database with some sort of transaction support in which case, nothing would be lost.

    If they were using a simple file database like Access under the hood, they might corrupt a couple of records but not the whole thing. Most likely recoverable in all but a worst case scenario and not something he could really answer in a couple of minutes of messing around with the machine.

    If they are storing everything in RAM.....well thats just stupid.

    At the very least it suggest an unreliable system and makes one wonder how much planning they put into it.

    •  just a guess (none)
      But I think it lost all of it's data..... when he removed the hard drive everything was recorded on.... I know there is no proof he took the hard drive( or whatever kind of stored memory device it had).... but it only seems logical since a bad battery would not wipe the memory to the point it cannot be retrieved by a good is amazing what they can would be safest to take it out.

      "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King, Jr. _______ "We will not be silent." -Howard Dean

      by jigsaw68 on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 10:53:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ask Tod A. Rapp of Xenia, Ohio (4.00)
      Former owner of Triad GSI, father of the current president and vice-president of Triad GSI, and author of the computer program that tallies the punch-card ballots in the centralized counting systems used in 41 counties in Ohio.

      Oh, yeah, and generous contributor to George W. Bush and the Republican National Committee.

    •  What battery? (none)
      I presume the computers were plugged into a wall socket?  Surely they aren't using laptops.  So the only battery in a desktop is the little one that keeps counting so the next time you turn on the computer, it knows what time it is.  When those go, you're computer boots up thinking it's 50 years ago (or so). And unless the date and time stamps are critical to the tabulation process, that shouldn't matter - and anyway, once the computer is on, you can reset the time and date manually.  So the whole battery thing is just to throw off people who know nothing about computers.
    •  Technical Jargon (none)

      That would be technical jargon used to dazzle the (most likely) tech-illiterate poll workers. All they would know, unless they'd had some tech education, is that the guy from the voting machine company says that this machine "lost its data", and if the tallies don't match up, they're going to jail. So of course they're going to play along and not ask questions!

      Its like the media listened to Weird Al's "Dare to be Stupid" and said "Yes! This is how the world should be!"

      by RHunter on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 07:19:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  punch card tabulator could be very old (4.00)
      There are plenty of REALLY OLD systems out there in the counties, and yes, there were some that did not even have a floppy disk.  Of course I'm dating myself but plenty of the early computer systems used battery backed RAM to store data.

      This could be a really old system, or the tech just made lots of "jargon" type comments that the election workers would not understand.

      Since Ohio will soon change over to all electronic  voting the Bush/Rovians will be able to report a much smoother election "victory" in 2006 and beyond.  Just don't look behind the curtain and you won't see their shenanigans.

  •  David Cobb (none)
    Failed Libertarian candidate, successful Green candidate? First sentence immediately causes major suspicion. It's amateurish crap like this that make us seem crazy to the SCLM.

    "In a related note, Jesus has quit." Stephen Colbert

    by nemesis enforcer on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 10:04:44 PM PST

  •  This is amazing and outrageous. (4.00)
    Kerry needs to contest the election - now. Even the judge that heard the Arnebeck Case said it was more or less bogus because Kerry isn't contesting the vote - so he'd have to be in on the alleged fraud (Judge's paraphrased words.) Until Kerry says "Ohio is in doubt," there is little hope, even with such a smoking gun. I honestly think at this point we have enough to either declare Ohio completely invalid, Kerry the winner, or to have a re-vote.

    The letter from Kerry's Camp even said there were enough votes in question to change the outcome of the election, something the media often threw in ("not enough votes in question to change the outcome") as a way of discrediting the heinous things that have come to light - I am not talking tin-foil here. But it seems unless Kerry says, at the very least, "Ohio is in clearly doubt and I will accept a change in the outcome even though I have conceded the election," the mainstream media will ignore it - unless Bush himself is incriminated, perhaps. The GOP sure as hell has been - Blackwell in particular, who clearly violated Ohio law, more than once even.

    Maybe we need to take to the streets or something, I really don't know. I am horrified, flabergasted, and feel desperate to do something. But if Kerry won't accept the responsibility, personally, of ensuring an accurate count of the votes, at this point in the game, then he doesn't deserve the Presidency. That doesn't mean I wouldn't fight for legitimacy in elections and counting the votes, it just means it won't happen because the media will brush it off like a fly. The "lie low" strategy is no longer a valid arguement - we have more than enough evidence to fight. Nevermind time is running out if it hasn't already. What is he waiting for, Inauguration Day?

    Resuscitate investigative journalism! Reality-Based does NOT mean investigations are wrong - it means investigations are essential.

    by nephalim on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 10:12:22 PM PST

    •  It is time to take to the streets (none)
      We have enough evidence. The fix is in.

      Ukrainians are relying on the same types of evidence as we have right now - exit polls that were off, suspicious cirumstances at the polling stations.

      Enough is enough. If we want Kerry to stand up and be counted we need to be there to back him and give him the courage to do it.

      Get out of your house and protest - everyone in OH and FL leave work tonight and go protest at the capital or your city hall. And let the country hear you stand up for your rights and this great nation. You are Patriots! Go get 'em.

      (wish I could be there with you but am out of the country - I'll light a candle and bang a drum along with you though in spirit!)

      Jaded Reality... "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose"

      by spiderleaf on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 09:29:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  SO the ballots have NOT YET been tampered with? (none)
    Or have they also tampered with the ballots but are not sure they did a good enough job?

    Otherwise they wouldn't be sweating what numbers the hand recount produce.

  •  Do we have a name for this tech? (none)
    I mean did they even question if he really worked for triad? did they request a tech service? who had him stop in????? who was billed for the service?

    We need more answers.

    "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King, Jr. _______ "We will not be silent." -Howard Dean

    by jigsaw68 on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 11:00:16 PM PST

    •  Triad contact info (4.00)
      Triad Governmental Systems, Inc.
      358 South Monroe St.
      Xenia,OH 45385
      Ph 937-376-5445
      Fax 937-376-3078

      toll free: (800) 666-5446

      how completely fitting they have 666 in their number

      But interestingly enough.....

      Greene County
      Board of Elections

      Carole L. Garman, Director

      Llyn McCoy, Deputy Director

      651 Dayton-Xenia Road
      Xenia, Ohio  45385
      Office Hrs Mon-Fri 8:00-4:30
      (937) 562-7470 or
      (937) 427-2883 ext 7470

      It makes me wonder just how close they are to the Triad office

      Well Mapquest says 3.01 miles... how completely handy for them.

      linked map

      "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King, Jr. _______ "We will not be silent." -Howard Dean

      by jigsaw68 on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 11:24:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  They should finger print that tabulator... (4.00)
    what he did was supicious at the least... criminal at worst. Get prints off of the machine..inside and out.

    "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King, Jr. _______ "We will not be silent." -Howard Dean

    by jigsaw68 on Mon Dec 13, 2004 at 11:33:46 PM PST

    •  He obviously STOLE the hard drive (4.00)

      Bad Battery???  My Ass!  The only battery that could have gone bad would have been the BIOS battery; and this is a very rare occurance.  I've been working with PCs for over a decade and I have only seen it twice.  What are the odds?   And how the hell would Triad have known this in the first place?

      It seems to me that Triad cooked up the numbers; put them on a new hard drive; and then swapped of the drives.  They probably reset the precinct in question back to it's real counrt and shaved off the difference in another precinct(s) to keep the county-wide totals the same.

      This guy is low-level.  Find him. Question him. Beat him. Show him a picture of his prison cell at San Quentin; and watch him roll-over.  He'll cough up the names.

      •  I Agree... (none)
        Give him the Abu Ghraib treatment...  If it's good enough for Iraqi democracy, its good enough for ours.  (ok, I don't really mean that, but I'm getting frustrated...)
      •  need computer forensic experts on this thing NOW (4.00)
        No kidding. Forget the lawyers. The crooks will only lie to them.

        We need computer forensic experts crawling all over this thing. With each passing day, more digital footprints are being erased.

        If the hard drive was swapped, there should be a system log entry that notes recognizing and installing a new hard drive.

        They should be checking the voting software installed on all these precinct machines. If all the software doesn't have the same Hash value, that's a red flag.

        Etc, etc, etc.


        Without fair, trustworthy, auditable elections, it's NOT Democracy -- Period.

        by CitizenOfEarth on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 07:35:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Well it has to be a small county... (none)
    If only one precint has three percent of the vote. Most counties would require many precints. Somebody with some time on their hands should pour through the Ohio BOE sites to identify such a county. Cross reference to Verified Voting for which counties use Triad systems. I will not have the time myself until later today.
    •  Quite a lot (none)
      It turns out there are 24 counties in Ohio small enough to conceiveably have one precinct with greater than 3% of the vote. Of those, 19 use Triad.

      Four of those nineteen counties overlap with the set identified by the Arnebeck group, i.e. counties that registered many more votes for the Democratic Supreme Court Chief Justice candidate than for John Kerry. Those counties are: Brown, Highland, Paulding, and Putnam. I'm betting it is one of those counties.

  •  Payer for false registrations in Ohio found dead (none)
    Man Charged With Submitting Phony Voter Registration Cards
    Cards Had Names Of Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy

    DEFIANCE, Ohio -- A grand jury indicted a man who authorities said submitted phony voter registration cards in the names of Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy and star athletes.

    Authorities have said Staton filled out phony voter forms himself rather than getting citizens to fill out legitimate registrations. He was first arrested in October but was released without bond during the investigation.

    Officers said then that they interviewed a woman who claimed that she had paid Staton with cocaine for the registrations.

    That woman, Georgianne Pitts, 41, of Toledo, about 50 miles east of Defiance, was found dead in her home Monday, possibly from a drug overdose, the Toledo police crime log indicated.

    Thoughts from Connecticut

    by ctsteve on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 05:52:38 AM PST

  •  Where are the other employees? (none)
    It sounds like there were at least a few people who witnessed a part of this,  Where are they?  What are their statements?  So far all I hear is a second hand report from a losing candidate -- and right now I don't believe the story, even though I really want to.
    •  According to BradBlog (4.00)
      The whistleblower has been interviewed behind closed doors by the Judiciary Committee. For the time being being they want to remain anonymous because their job is in jeopardy. Also as there is a history of "suicide" among people that put the Bush crime family at risk, I think this is prudent.
  •  So what (none)
    Everyone relax until we know something more. Yes, if true this "technician" did something illegal. But we have NO direct evidence that he manipulated the vote count, or that anything at all happened in the larger counties. Remember, Bush "won" by over 100k.

    Also, if Rove et al were going to pull something like this, why the heck would they send a flunkie into a smallish county in broad daylight (i.e. with witnesses) to pull a hard drive? Don't you think they're better (at stealing elections) than that?

    •  Rove vote stealing is not perfect yet (none)
      Just wait for the next "election" in 2006.  Bush/Rove will do away with those pesky exit polls and get more DRE Electronic voting machines installed.  Since most of these have no recount method things will go much more smoothly and the Bush/Rovians will "WIN" all future elections.

      Maryland is set up for disaster in 2006 with statewide Diebold machines that have no recount possibility.  

    •  The simple conspiracy to report false numbers.. (none)
      is a crime. He allegedly told the election worker to post the pre-set precinct result in the counting room in an inconspicous manner so that the counting crew could report a number that jives with the machine. That alone is enough suspicion to follow up on. Have detectives interview the guy and issue a search warrant for his car, home, office, phone records, bank records, etc.. The whole Law and Order thing.

      Yes, Bush won by 119K but that only requires flipping 60K votes, or only an average of 5 or 6 per precinct across the state. If this scam is limited to the one third of the state controlled by Triad, it would only have to be 15 votes per precinct.

      This should at least be enough to force the Election Boards to truly chose the test precincts by random in front of the observers on the morning of the hand-count.

  •  Hopefully, this is being investigated completely.. (none)
    ...but we have to keep in mind that this is one unsubstantiated report.

    The problem is that the desire to find a smoking gun can overcome prudence. The beauty and danger of the Internet is the democratization of news. On one hand, it's much harder to sweep things under the rug and prevents the MSM from being the only gatekeepers (this issue is proving this again). On the other hand, however, it makes it too easy to take one assertion that to a trained reporter or investigator would be a single piece of a bigger picture--and something that must be assessed very carefully before given any credence--and inflate it into that smoking gun. And if it is claimed to be that smoking gun by partisans and then discredited, the issue itself dies. You only get one shot.

    Question: Even assuming this happened, we don't even know for sure that this fellow worked for Triad.

    •  Apartheid... (none)
      Okay, I know the big deal is on the Ohio situation, but the Florida situation is by far more frightening:

      Not even the NAACP thinks this worthy of at least a look.

      That said, I think you guys need to cut John some slack... we are doing this with our own money, we are not getting paid, and in all honesty, we are putting ourselves in the front lines... as you know, the political climate does not value honesty, hence we put our own lives at risk for trying to report these things. Clearly this administration has no problem making raw meat out of journalists, as we all know.

      Larisa Alexandrovna
      Staff Writer - Raw Story

      Larisa Raw Story Staff Writer

      by Larisa on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 12:22:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Larisa, you guys are heroes and heroines (none)
        Larisa, you guys are heroes and heroines. The alternate press is the only media willing to report anything that questions the status quo. And I am sure there are plenty of threats and discrediting comments that come with the territory. Your story on the Apartheid leader futzing with voting lists in Florida is scary and sobering.

        While mainstream media is spending ALL their time and energy chasing Petersen jurors for a provacative quote, Blue Lemur (and a precious few others) are reporting the stories that have real meaning to all our lives. Bravo!

        Without fair, trustworthy, auditable elections, it's NOT Democracy -- Period.

        by CitizenOfEarth on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 01:58:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  oops, just saw this... (none)
          I am so confused lately... thank you for your kind words. I still can't get anyone from the NAACP to challange the Florida results. The election was illegal based on the 2000 NAACP settlement.

          Larisa Staff Writer - Raw Story/Blue Lemur Yahoo IM: sabinkstranded

          by Larisa on Tue Dec 28, 2004 at 01:01:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  This is so neat! (none)
    I mean, the scam, if it's true.

    1. Send the tech around to collect the hard drives that have all the data from 11/2. It hides possible evidence of fraud in case the machines get subpoenaed in the Arnebeck lawsuit.

    2. 'Fix' the tabulators to they report the 'correct' tally in the initial recount (see #3) and dupe the county BoE officials to report the 'correcty' tally in the initial hand count to prevent a statewide recount by hand (which would bypass the 'fixed' machines).

    3. Discredit the recounts, lawsuits, and investigations by rigging the initial machine and hand recounts to match the certified tallys. Lay the basis for a flawed recount in case the statewide machine recount shows errors.

    The biggest flaw in the whole thing, of course, is the BoE officials. That aspect fascinates me, but since 'They' can't directly influence a hand recount, they have to try.

    ('They' being who? Triad? Blackwell? Rove? The Ohio and/or National Rep Parties?)

    Could somebody have invented this story to fool us, and have it meet 3 different agendas so neatly? Or was this scam born out of very real necessity to cover their tracks AND obstruct whatever the truth is?

  •  BREAKING!!! I Spoke to Pres of TRIAD (none)
    I just had a lengthy conversation wtih the president of Triad, and detail it in a separate diary here

    Please stop by and read it.  It is pretty important stuff that should be scrutinized carefully.

    This is the president of the company accused of machine tampering.  Read what he has to say!

  •  I hope to highlight this Diary (none)
    I hope to highlight this Diary in the next installment of my "this week in Fascism" diary. I expect to post this diary on Wednesday evening.  Please come to my Preliminary Diary and let me know how you feel about this Idea. I will be using the "Fraudulent elections" for your Diary unless you ask me not to or suggest a different heading.

    "The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Chapter 10.

    by Tomtech on Tue Dec 14, 2004 at 04:34:38 PM PST

  •  Time to go Ukraine on em! (none)
    Isn't it appalling how they force the recount to stop, claiming the re-counters weren't following protocol; but then they practically invite computer hacks  to waltz in and perform all kinds of "
    "adjustments" to the computers without even questioning them?!  Time to take to the streets!
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