A Krauthammer Christmas! Help!

[editor's note, by daria g]/Update [2004-12-17 10:44:19 by daria g]: OK, a preface. I'm being really flip here, and I know that. At the heart of my disgust, which some replies have made me realize, is that I'm getting ready to go home and celebrate Christmas with my family - and yet now everywhere I turn I'm finding it turned into a massive political football by the right, and I wish they'd take a break, frankly.

Yet another conservative scold is complaining about alleged complaints about Christmas.  One can only wonder why these people don't prefer to take a holiday themselves from all the complaining.  

Sure, there are some disagreements on the local level going on out there.  But really, I find this whole round of right-wing fretting over an assault on Christmas so transparently calculated, so gratingly predictable, the usual howling cacophony of fake outrage seems oddly reduced to a single flat, plodding note that was first sounded by Fox News and just goes on and on and on and on...  

Just Leave Christmas Alone

It is Christmastime, and what would Christmas be without the usual platoon of annoying pettifoggers rising annually to strip Christmas of any Christian content?

[editor's note, by daria g]To which I reply.. it'd probably be quite pleasant if there weren't a very loud platoon with a nationwide megaphone sweeping all these small, local stories into one giant ball of political anger.

I figure there are only two ways to deal with this story.

One, wild speculation.  What will be the hot target for the right wing whine brigade's next round of baseless trumped-up outrage?  A lack of fair and balanced McCarthy biopics?  The fact that some people in Louisiana still speak French?  Project Runway?  The state of Rhode Island?

Two, adding insult to injury.  I'd really like to annoy Charles Krauthammer and other conservatives more, if that's possible.  Actually, since I regard all these complaints to be entirely bereft of the least bit of sincerity, I'd like to at least do them the favor of giving the outrage a shade of authenticity by annoying them for real, for real.  How can we do that?  Ideas welcome.  

Take the poll.  

•  In fact

  I'd rather like to set up a spoof organization called People Against Goodness And Normalcy and use it to start up a mock campaign against Hannity, Limbaugh et al.

  by daria g on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 06:38:30 AM PDT

  •  And wasn't it

    Bill O'Reilly who kick-started it this time around, deciding he's the real defender of Christmas?  That's the first day I wanted to start banging my head against my desk.  I think things are fine as they are and I don't want to hear all these people from the other end of the political spectrum shouting about this from now until the end of December.  O'Reilly I find particularly offensive - personal reputation on really shaky moral grounds?  Hey, take up the cause of Christmas!  That'll help!

    Not that I can stop them, although I still think setting up a spoof organization for them to attack might just do the trick.

    I guess all in all I'm in this odd position of saying, "Where exactly is the national-scale problem?  If like 80-90% of Americans are celebrating Christmas and there are some debates going on in different places about public displays, OK, then, let it go!"

    by daria g on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 07:49:10 AM PDT

•  The obvious comment...

  we can annoy them by marching against christmas celebrations!

  Seriously, this is the most inane thing I've ever seen (the attack on Xmas reports, not your diary).  And people buy into it!  I saw people on TV yesterday sitting on some Oklahoma lawn "protecting" Christmas.  This is what riles them.  This is what gets them angry, and gets them away from the TV (albeit only because Fox News told 'em to).  Last time I checked, the same stupid christmas carols are playing at the grocery store, santa claus still ho ho hos at me in the mall, and signs still say merry christmas.  The "assault against christmas" is the same shit that happens every year, but now it gets to be on Goebbell Network News (GNN) to really rile up those "moral values" voters (y'know, the ones that voted for the Iraq war!)

  Maybe we should have a dKos Christmas party on the sidewalk in front of FoxNews headquarters.  That could rile them up a bit.  Big ol' signs saying who we are, Santa Claus, and egg nog!

  by ragnark on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 06:44:18 AM PDT

  •  That's what I'm sayin'

    That's why People Against Goodness and Normalcy needs to really get angry about this horrible Christmas thing being all up in our business every year.

    Meanwhile, the rest of us can go on our merry way, while P.A.G.A.N. fights it out with Fox News.  May the group with the most integrity win.

    by daria g on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 06:50:45 AM PDT

  •  Nobody's marching against

    Christmas celebrations!  Nobody ever did!

    That's my point.  You'd never guess it from Fox News - you'd guess there was an anti-Christmas movement sweeping America.  

    So what I'm saying is, let's give 'em an "anti-Christmas movement" (er, another one of my in-theory-only comedy ideas) that's really, really, really transparently absurd, because it is pretty absurd to think there'd be one.  Otherwise they'll keep on inventing one every year.  

    by daria g on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 07:53:23 AM PDT

    •  idea!

      We could demand more recognition for Santa Claus.. claim the Christmas mayhem leaves him overworked, meaning he outsources his work (to North Polians!), and demand the joy be spread more evenly throughout the year to relieve his stress.

      Also, demand that a new passage (kinda like a Constitutional Amendment) be put into all U.S. bibles recognizing and thanking Santa Claus for all his hard work keeping the kids happy!

      (I think I need to go outside now.. I'm getting into delirium-mode)

      by ragnark on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 08:27:28 AM PDT

•  Amusing

  What we have here is a case of your complaint at Krauthammer's complaint with those who complain about public expressions of Christmas.

  Buncha silly whining, if you ask me.

  My dear mother-in-law, Haia, a deeply religious Orthodox Jew, passed away from heart failure the Saturday after Thanksgiving. I hope she will forgive me for exposing a rare secret indulgence of hers: she loved the song Silent Night.

  In my immediate inter-married family, we used to do both Christmas and Hannukah, but went all Hannukah some years ago. But we make no secret of our love for the general holiday cheer, particularly beautiful Christmas music.

  I contend that public celebration or expressions around Christmas do not necessarily violate a separation of church and state.

  It's difficult if not impossible to define in words where to draw the line between respecting cultural traditions and proselytizing religious dogma, but like pornography--you'll know it when you see it.

  by baldandy on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 06:53:10 AM PDT

  •  Yep

    I don't know if I managed to be the least bit amusing, but it was either do something that made me laugh with it, or bang my head on the desk, because I really hate it when pundits all say the same thing..

    I agree with your last paragraph and figure the issues that do arise are handled on a case by case basis.  This attempt by the right to make a grand theme of the persecution of the majority in this country is getting a little tedious, and that's what bothers me at the end of the day.  FWIW I am Catholic and celebrate Christmas every year.

    by daria g on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 06:58:25 AM PDT

•  I won't take your poll

  because there isn't any answer you put down that I can say yes too.  I just read Krauthammer's column, and my response to it was an overwhelming "At last!  Someone making sense on this!!"  Did you gloss over the whole thing or did you just miss his point about being secure enough in one's own religion (or no religion) to tolerate the public display of other religions?  We are not France, to abolish all public displays of religion.  To the contrary, the Constitution enshrines our freedom to practice our religion - even in public, even if it happens to offend you.

    There is no point in pretending that 80% of this country does not self-identify as Christian.  Kos says OK, we lost the gun battle, let's move on.  Fair enough.  Let me suggest that picking this battle, of all of the things you could do to enrage the average American, is the wrong way to go.  We are NEVER going to win being the party of suppression of religion.  

   We had it OK in our public schools twenty years ago - we sang Christmas carols and Hannukah songs too, and we'll add Kwanzaa in - and Ramadan now that we have Muslims in our schools!  

     But a large part of our country's real strength comes from its openness to religions of all stripes, and to acknowledging the simple fact that people ARE generally religious.  Not you and not the Soviet Union and not Communist China can stop that.
  

  by md jeffersonian on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 06:59:43 AM PDT

  •  Context

    The contextual frame for this argument is that 1) Christianity is under threat from Liberalism and 2) We must pass laws that protect Christianity from the forces of evil.

    This isn't about Christmas.  It's about reproductive rights, gay and Lesbian Americans and teaching the book of Genesis as science in public schools.

    by bink on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 07:12:58 AM PDT

  •  I couldn't agree more

    by big rob on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 07:13:27 AM PDT

  •  Religion doesn't offend me.

    It's the drumbeat that offends me - the fact that it's become political talking points during the holidays about a sudden wave of persecution, which I find grossly inaccurate.  I feel like this kind of talk is wrecking the holiday for me, frankly!

    But I am also tired and in a fairly silly mood, which is at odds with the way I usually try to talk on this website, so I have to think about that for a few minutes.
    

    by daria g on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 07:27:20 AM PDT

    •  It's Not You

      Don't let Charles Krauthammer or Bill O'Reilly push your buttons.  Do you think these are the kind of guys who would welcome a bunch of Christmas carolers on their front lawn?  They would probably call the police.  If a young man and his pregant wife stopped at their front door on Christmas Eve and asked if they would put them up for the night, it would be "No room here."  

      Don't fool yourself; they are not imbued with the Christmas spirit.    

      by eafredel on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 07:55:09 AM PDT

      •  They already have

        Maybe it's the hour of the morning, too.  But not long ago I was talking to my mother who I suspect does watch her share of the dreaded Fox News, and she wanted to know what I thought of all these people trying to take away Christmas!  

        And I was like.. what people?  For crying out loud!  There are individual people in individual towns who are involved in individual disputes for a variety of reasons, but go look out in the town you live in and nothing has changed in the celebration of Christmas for the past fifty years, nor is it likely to any time soon!  Sheesh!  You'd think a roving band of militant athiests were trying to confiscate her Catholic Digest or something.  It's just bonkers to me - these right-wing pundits make her think people are out to get her, and I'm sick of their fearmongering, over the holidays no less.

        by daria g on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 08:08:27 AM PDT

        •  Fear Is Their Constant Companion

          The Bush Administration has made "fear" their watchword:  fear of terrorists, fear of gays, and (coming soon) fear of the Social Security crisis.  It is the antithesis of the joy on a child's face on Christmas morning or the calm of a winter night when the snow falls softly.  

          by eafredel on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 08:23:35 AM PDT

  •  Jefferson made it quite clear...

    ... that what he was looking for, when he talked about the role of state and religion, was NOT a 'multi-religious' state [ie - schools with taxpayer supported religious diversity] but a state that did not mess with religion at all.

    Keeping them both pure by keeping them seperate.

    The scenario you talk about, IIRC, is a false premise put forward by the right as an argument for faith activities in schools, as long as multiple faiths are acknowledged. It's not Constitutional, and counter to the intent of the Founders.

    by Timoteo on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 07:57:17 AM PDT

    •  There Was More than One

      Founding Father - much as I obviously respect Jefferson, he wasn't the sole author of the Declaration of Independence (note that his original draft did not mention the term "endowed by their Creator" but he was outvoted and the phrase put in the final document. Not messing with religion (i.e. the anti-establishment clause) also doesn't mean prohibiting its exercise. The issues about acknowledgement of the pupils' religion in schools are somewhere in between the two clauses, leading to the extensive jurisprudence in this area.  

       However, when businesses feel compelled not to acknowledge Christmas, that is nothing to do with our government and everything to do simply with public culture - no laws are involved.  Would Jefferson have been in favor of never acknowledging the reality staring him (in his time, much more so than us in ours) in the face on a daily basis?  I don't know, but I do know that our country is stronger for celebrating the individuals and the communities that make it up, rather than shoving their deepest beliefs and identifications into the closet.

      by md jeffersonian on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 08:14:17 AM PDT

      •  "Buisnesses feel compelled..."

        ... I agree, they probably do. it's about sales. That is why they are there.

        But, as I posted downthread, buisness is buisness - and the gift-giving frenzy this time of year is not a particularly "Christian" activity.

        We have a parallel holiday running each December 25 - the "Christmas" of Jesus Chist, celebrated in churches and homes across the country, and the commercial "X-mas" or "Holiday Season" celebrated in the Wal-marts and Targets - as well as in homes across the country - Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist and Pagan homes, too.

        Christmas is HUGE in Japan - which has something like a 3% of the population identifying as "Christian".

        I see no issue with "Season Greetings" in a commercial venue - and I certainly would not want commercial concerns claiming the "right" to advertise their sales in churches or within church bulletins.

        This whole debate is a rubric by the Right to make themselves look like victims, yet again, so they can rile up the "rightous indignation" of the Neocon "Christians" [and, as a fellow progressive Christian, we both know why I put that in quotes!]

        by Timoteo on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 08:30:47 AM PDT

  •  Also re France

    I lived in France for a bit & there were massive Noel holiday preparations ongoing all over Paris throughout December as I recall.  Not in the government buildings which is where the line is drawn, but shops, certainly, everywhere.  

    by daria g on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 08:21:57 AM PDT

•  The big irony...

  ... is that real Christians used to complain that Christmas we being too commercialized --- that the anual orgy of consumer greed was NOT in the spirit of the birth of Jesus Christ...

  NOW they are all complaining the Jesus Christ needs better "product placement" in the mega-stores and shopping malls of America.

  Pretty sad, if you ask me.

  by Timoteo on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 07:43:20 AM PDT

•  Philosophically, It is Not in My Nature

  But, part of me wants to know Mr. Krauthammer's address, so I might install a Nativity scene on his front lawn, or perhaps organize a "living Nativity scene" in front of his home.  Now, I know I could get a horse, but can I locate a donkey and a few sheep?

  by eafredel on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 08:28:22 AM PDT

  •  O'Reillly probably has some extra sheep n/t

    by Timoteo on Fri Dec 17, 2004 at 08:31:34 AM PDT