Iraq now a training ground for European extremists

Mission accomplished: while Iraq was not involved in any major terrorist activity before the war (except for some support to Palestinian groups and providing a home for a few retired terrorists), it has now become a breeding ground for fresh jehadis. That's what Gijs de Vries, EU counter-terrorism coordinator, says in this article.

A few important quotes from the article:

Young Muslims from Europe are going to Iraq to train with militant Islamic insurgents, the European Union's top terrorism official says.

The trend worrying counter-terrorism officials, both because of the potential for increased violence in Iraq, and because they fear militants who gain experience there will return to pose a threat in Europe.

Yes, the Iraq war has stirred up things, and has proven to be a good recruiting incentive. Yay.

De Vries' comments highlighted the risk that Iraq was becoming a new Afghanistan, to which Arab and Muslim volunteers flocked in the 1980s to fight Soviet occupation, returning to fuel insurgencies in countries such as Algeria and Egypt.

Well, no shit. A war that was started for the wrong reasons and that was poorly planned has made the world a more dangerous place. At the cost of the lives of possibly hundreds of thousands of civilians, and thousands of soldiers.

And still Bush got reelected, because at least some people got a $300 tax cut, and gays can't marry, right?

•  It's articles like these..

  ..that get me really pissed off about the state of the world. But, what can you do. Give me tips to make me feel better (yes, I'm being sarcastic..)!
  

  by Frank on Sat Dec 04, 2004 at 04:02:25 AM PDT

•  Bush is the best friend al Qaeda ever had

  The fact is that Bush is the face on the al Qaeda recruiting poster.  He will empower more suicide bombers than ever.  More importantly, he will empower the CONTROLLERS of the suicide bombers.

  But, tough titties, Republicans! Your boy won, and it is your problem.

  I am a firm backer of freedom fighters everywhere.

  by dataguy on Sat Dec 04, 2004 at 04:34:44 AM PDT

•  Gijs just an apprentice on job, no expert

  I'm sorry Frank, no news from Gijs on this issue.
  A KDos diary gives more factual info than a politician turned coordinator for EU ministers. No strong condemnation of US invasion. Almost sounds like a soft Bush's stand. The Dutch muslims have gone to Chechnya, Kashmir and Pakistan for madrasses and training camps. Even Indonesia would be safer training location with Islamic fundamental movement.

  "There are cases of young Muslims from Western Europe going to Iraq to receive military training and that is an unfortunate and negative trend," EU Counter-Terrorism Coordinator Gijs de Vries in an interview.

  "It is one of the reasons why it is very important to help Iraq stabilise so that peace can return and these (training) camps can be dismantled," the Dutch politician added.

  This last quote from Gijs turned me off. EU stay in Iraq and support Bush for your own safety. He knows not. Any terrorisme expert or investigative BBC reporter would have launched a better story.

  Just look at the Buffalo, NY terrorist cell for better insight into motivation and training.
  That is identical to methods used under the noses of Dutch politicians who are fleeing parlement because of vague threats send on the internet. Still plenty of work to be done for Gijs.

  Democracy and personal freedom for the individual defines being Liberal

  by creve coeur on Sat Dec 04, 2004 at 08:31:44 AM PDT

  •  Well..

    Maybe he's not so knowledgable, but the fact that he  says that a stable Iraq is important is hardly something to attack him on.

    Are you saying that he made this up to get people to send troops to Iraq? Maybe he isn't a very well-informed guy, but that seems far-fetched.

    Also, you seem to dislike him because he doesn't strongly condemn Bush. Well, that's not his job. By pointing out that the situation in Iraq is bad now, he's also pointing out who made the mess.

    Btw, do you have any link for your informations on these training camps? You accuse him of not backing up his statements (which is fair enough), but do not provide any background yourself.
    

    by Frank on Sat Dec 04, 2004 at 11:36:15 AM PDT

    •  From Civic Activist To Alleged Terrorist

      Recent arrests after Theo van Gogh was killed, led to arrest of dozen suspects. Hofstad group - two brothers arrested, youngest had traveled to Chechen when he was 16 yrs. old; El Tawheed Mosque Amsterdam, Syrian mastermind sought for Al Qaeda link and Al-Furqaan Mosque Eindhoven.

      Muslim Suspect in Dutch Director's Killing Was Caught Between Cultures
      Washington Post Foreign Service  Nov. 28, 2004
      "..Bouyeri dispatched about 100 messages to a Dutch-Moroccan Internet site defending Islam" has been debunked is not same person.

      Wikipedia  - Bouyeri  a biography

      Dutch news - Syrian mastermind sought

      The widely recognized spokesman for the Al-Furqaan Mosque and Al-Waqf foundation, Mr. Cheppih has had a difficult year. Two young men from the mosque were killed in 2002 by Indian soldiers fighting Muslim militants in Kashmir.
      Spartacus  April 15, 2003

      Democracy and personal freedom for the individual defines being Liberal

      by creve coeur on Sat Dec 04, 2004 at 02:31:36 PM PDT

      •  Ok.

        At this point this is probably a private conversation :) But for the record: yeah, the "Hofstad" people and a few others did not go through Iraq. But it doesn't look like de Vries is talking about those, to me it sounds like he talks about people still at large (though apparently being monitored).

        About the members of parliament.. only one isn't in parliament currently, and she's the one who co-wrote the "Submission" movie. Its director, van Gogh, got killed. So there is some reason for her to take threats seriously. I do agree that there is some overreaction there.
        

        by Frank on Sun Dec 05, 2004 at 01:59:57 PM PDT