Daily Kos

Karen Hughes. Pathological Liar.

Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 10:24:08 PM PDT

Karen Huges said the majority of Americans were terrorists.
And President Bush has worked to say, let's be reasonable, let's work to value life, let's try to reduce the number of abortions, let's increase adoptions.

And I think those are the kind of policies that the American people can support, particularly at a time when we're facing an enemy, and really the fundamental difference between us and the terror network we fight is that we value every life. It's the founding conviction of our country, that we're endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights, the right to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Unfortunately our enemies in the terror network, as we're seeing repeatedly in the headlines these days, don't value any life, not even the innocent and not even their own.

Then, amazingly, Hughes claims she never meant what she clearly says on camera.
"That is a gross distortion and I would never make such a comparison."
But she did make such a comparison. And we know she made that comparison. And she knows that we know that she made that comparison. And yet she still denies making that comparison.

Bowtied conservative Tucker Carlson is well aware of this Karen Hughes special:

What about your profile of George W. Bush in Talk in 1999? That had to be the most damaging profile of him yet written -- swearing like a truck driver, making fun of Karla Faye Tucker's death penalty appeals, mimicking her saying, "Don't kill me!" -- because of its high profile, and because of your access to him. Did that bring you flak from conservatives?

Well, it's always disconcerting when something you write is received in a way you don't expect. I have no problem hurting someone's feelings -- obviously, I work on "Crossfire" -- but when you don't expect to, it's disconcerting. As I put in the book, the day before I filed the piece my wife asked, "Aren't people going to think you're sucking up?" And that was my concern, that people would think it's a suck-up piece.

And the response from team Bush?

It was very, very hostile. The reaction was: You betrayed us. Well, I was never there as a partisan to begin with.

Then I heard that [on the campaign bus, Bush communications director] Karen Hughes accused me of lying. And so I called Karen and asked her why she was saying this, and she had this almost Orwellian rap that she laid on me about how things she'd heard -- that I watched her hear -- she in fact had never heard, and she'd never heard Bush use profanity ever. It was insane.

I've obviously been lied to a lot by campaign operatives, but the striking thing about the way she lied was she knew I knew she was lying, and she did it anyway. There is no word in English that captures that. It almost crosses over from bravado into mental illness.

Liars. The whole lot of them. Hughes, Rove, Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Negroponte, and so on. Liars.

That's why numbers like these are so heartening:

IN HIS STATEMENTS ABOUT IRAQ, BUSH IS...
Telling entire truth 20%
Mostly telling truth, but hiding something 56%
Mostly lying 20% [...]

-------

Many Bush Administration officials have testified before the 9/11 Commission, but Americans continue to believe the Administration may not be telling the entire truth about what it knew prior to September 11th regarding possible terror attacks against the U.S. 56 percent of Americans say the Administration is hiding something about what they knew prior to September 11, 24 percent say they are telling the entire truth, while 16 percent say they are mostly lying.

I always knew the jokers in power were LIARS from day one. It's nice to see the public starting to come around to that simple and obvious truth.
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  •  All I can say is (none / 0)

    it is about time. I was wondering if there are really that few people that look at all the info at least once in a while. There was know doubt that in augs of 02 that they were planning on going into iraq. If you watched close they made mistake after mistake. They lied and denied and still do and it has only been 18 months and we should have seen this move much faster but the rally around the president and the Fear campaign seem to be starting to lift. I hope the Joe Wilson book is at least a week long news event.
  •  Two issues? (none / 0)

    The data points discuss Bush's veracity on Iraq.  The paragraph mentions the 9/11 hearings and offers different numbers.  Was that deliberate? I'm a little confused.  
  •  Of course she is a liar. How else could she (none / 0)

    make a career out of doing the things that she has done?

    And of coures, the rest of them are liars too.

    By the way, for some heartwarming results, click on Atrios and see the latest results of a CBS poll on BushCo.  It looks as if the public is finally starting to catch on to what a pathetic failure he is.

    "What is wrong with you?"--Jon Stewart to Tucker Carlson on "Crossfire."

    by PhillipG on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 10:36:08 PM PDT

    •  Lies + power = ? (none / 0)

      It sounds like they're believing their own lies, this little mish-mash of reality they keep carving out for themselves.  A little too much like 1984 for my tastes.

      So what happens when these liars and overall nuts (afterall, many of them are fundamentalists which is nice way to say crazy motherfucker) get to weild the  might of a superpower? Other than the Iraq war, rolling back of civil liberties, cronyism on a scale never before seen, etc.  Can we expect more voter fraud this year? Limited areas of martial law because of "credible" terrorist threats?

      Sometimes I wonder how far we are from re-education camps? Or even a for-life dictator.  Very few people are standing up to Bush and his people, and public sentiment is still pro-Bush with half the voters.  I'm afraid the real outcome of this house of cards built on lies isn't a collapse and a new president, but a Fox News country obsessed with nationalism and believing everything Bush and company says because "he's tough on terror" or "he's a good christian" or "I vote GOP because my daddy was GOP and his daddy too."

      •  a little more (4.00 / 2)

        Doesn't it bug you guys, or perhaps scare you, that all the dirt we have on Bush is 99.9% from ex-Bushies? O'Neil et al. The media still isn't doing its job.  They still cater to the elites and the special interests and are more afraid than ever to upset politicians because of the polarization between voters and the fear of losing access, being called unpatriotic, etc.

        As far as Hughes goes, she is jsut speaking in "code." The anti-abortionists know that Bush is on their side and every so often they like to be reminded of that. There are a few codes out there, but since the lasted coded statement at Strom Thurman's birthday party cost the GOP dearly, they've been more careful about it.

        •  It's about the big picture (none / 0)

          This article from Tom Paine illuminates why the media may not be doing their job as journalists:

          http://tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10295

          Let's see. . .  ABC is owned by Disney, NBC by General Electric, CBS by Viacom, Fox by News Corp. (well, we can already see corporate synergy working in their news division), and just about all of the major news papers are part of corporation conglomerates.  

          The only goal of corporations is to make as much profit as possible, and getting on the wrong side of the government can be a major obstacle to that goal.  So no matter how much the news organizations may deny that their corporate bosses are looking over their shoulder, I believe that the pressure on them from the higher-ups is real and tangible.  So to allievate that pressure, they do enough "journalism" to make it look like they're intrepid muckrakers, but don't probe far enough for the government (and especially this ruthless adminstration) to cut off the cozy relationships with their corporate bosses.

          "See that guy's reaction when Bush shakes his hand? Surprise, then disappointment. Surprise, then disappointment."--Hank Hill, King of the Hill

          by heg03 on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 07:46:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Proud to be added (none / 0)

    to the list. Pro-choice and not going anywhere, he's not changing his MO he always has said if your not with us your against us. This is just the blatant push of the war on terror into domestic issues to mollify the right wingers so they can tell all us evil pro-choice folks "We told you so".

    Expect it to get worse...much worse. Admin mouthpieces will spout propoganda that helps the right connect with the puppetmaster in the White House then they will try and mop up and connect with the Center.

    First it was Teachers, now it's pro-choice...next it will be unions for helping the terrorist by asking for overtime pay and fair wages.

  •  Liars (none / 0)

    Clinton's prevarication got him in so much trouble.  Why aren't the lies of Bush and the Bushies causing so much of a hubub?  

    But let's keep talking about the lies, the liars and the stench of mendacity.  Perhaps it will sink in with the rest of the public.

    •  Unfortunately, some people are immune to (none / 0)

      evidence and will never catch on.

      My local "alternative" paper, the Nashville Scene, released its latest issue today in which their staff members weighed in with their opinions on this war.  While several of them were frank in their out and out calling Bush and his crew liars, what was truly amazing to me was the way so many of those who weighed in cannot entertain the notion that Bush and his cronies ACTUALLY MISLED THEM into the latest Iraq War.

      Just amazing.

      See for yourselves.

      Link:  www.nashvillescene.com

      "What is wrong with you?"--Jon Stewart to Tucker Carlson on "Crossfire."

      by PhillipG on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 10:42:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Lies (none / 1)

      Clinton's lies got him in trouble precisely because they had nothing to do with his policies. In fact, they made a serendiptious distraction from said policies.

      On the other hand, Bush's lies are at the heart of his presidency. And its painful for many to admit that.

      Bush breezed into the White House on a pack of lies (about his military record, about "compassionate conservativism," about stripping eligible Florida voters from the voter rolls) and the lies haven't let up for a second. And it's no surprise, when people (and administrations) get away with lying, more lies follow, fast and furious.

  •  In The Words of Pogo... (none / 1)

    "I have met the enemy and he is us"..if Karen Hughes weren't so scarey she'd be laughable

    "Calmer than you are Dude....calmer than you"

    by sula on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 10:40:09 PM PDT

  •  Master Seamstress (none / 1)

    Clearly they brought her back because they could see the the boy Emperor needs a new set of invisible clothes. The old ones simply vanished!!
  •  Pro Choice = Terrorists (none / 0)

    Pro Choice 'Muerican

    Barbara Bush

    Laura Bush

    Mrs. Prescott Bush

    George H.W. Bush (sr.) until 1988, at age 64.
    (never explained or accounted for Flip-Flop)

    Ronald Reagan, signed most liberal abortion law, as govenor in 1967.  (Flip-Flop never explained)

    Sandra Day O' Connor

    Rudy Gulliani

    George Pataki

    Alan Simpson

    Warren Rudman

    George W. Bush and his gang will say and do anything to get elected.

    McCain: He's Constipated and Ready to GO

    by Al Rodgers on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 10:40:53 PM PDT

    •  And who's on Bush's side? (none / 1)

      I mean, surely those Ay-rab terra-ists who don't respect human life must be just aborting fetuses right and left?   Let's find out:

      http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/population/

      Afghanistan
      ====

      (1) A person who causes abortion by means of drugs or otherwise, even though the act has been accomplished with the consent of the pregnant woman, shall be sentenced to medium imprisonment or shall be fined an amount not less than twelve thousand Afghanis and not exceeding sixty thousand Afghanis.

      Syria
      =
      =

      (Sorry...Babelfish)
      SYRIA. The Penal Codes. Legislative Decree No 148 of 22 June 1949. Art. 525 Any propaganda made by one of the means envisaged in article 208-2 and 3, in order to spread or to facilitate the use of abortive practices, will be punished two months to two years of imprisonment and fifty to two hundred and fifty books of fine.

      Iran
      =

      6) Compensation (diye) for a miscarried infant in which life is present. If it is a male, full compensation (diye) is paid, and if it is a female half of full compensation (diye); if its sex is indeterminate, three-quarters of full compensation (diye) is to be paid.

      Libya
      =
      =

      Article 391.  Whoever procures the abortion of a pregnant woman with her consent shall be punished by a penalty of detention for a period not less than six months and the same penalty shall apply to the woman who consented to the abortion.

      Nice to see Mr. Bush standing up for the principles of the Taliban, Qaddaffi, the Iranians, etc.

      Rubus Eradicandus Est.

      by Randomfactor on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 11:57:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Here's may favorite part of Hughes' statement: (none / 1)

    "And President Bush has worked to say, let's be reasonable, let's work to value life . . . ."

    --I'd like to ask her if Bush's "valuing life" is the reason he has needlessly killed and is still killing so many people in Iraq with this senseless war.

    --These people's souls are black as the pit of hell.

    "What is wrong with you?"--Jon Stewart to Tucker Carlson on "Crossfire."

    by PhillipG on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 10:45:12 PM PDT

  •  Its true the American public is waking up a bit (none / 0)

    with regard to Bush's lies about Iraq, (unfortunately it took hundreds/thousands of deaths to do this.) The troublesome thing in the poll is this:

    "Sixty-one percent of voters said Mr. Kerry says what he thinks people want to hear, versus 29 percent who said he says what he believes. The Bush campaign has attacked Mr. Kerry for months on that score, portraying him as a flip-flopper with no convictions.

    On the same question, 43 percent said Mr. Bush says what people want to hear and 53 percent said he says what he believes."

    Support for War Is Down Sharply, Poll Concludes

    Even though the respondents think Bush is lying to them about Iraq they still think he is more sincere than Kerry. The Kerry campaign has got to start attacking Bush with more vigor. People need to know that just because Bush is stupid does not mean he is sincere.

    Cindy McCain: "In Arizona The Only Way To Get Around The State Is By Small Private Plane"

    by assyrian64 on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 10:51:06 PM PDT

  •  It a surprise? (none / 0)

    that the Bush admin and all the higher ups are liars, I don't think so, just look at their history, and its right in front of your face.
    Now, that some (CON MEDIA LAP DOG TYPES) see fit to ignore this is irrelevant to the fact that it is true, hopefully before Nov the American voters will start paying closer attention, and realize what type of individuals are running our country and make an immediate change at the pres level and lower.
    This would begin the process of returning our nation back into the hands of pro-democracy leaders, and out of the hands of those that have fascist leanings to say the least.
    Have a safe day and think peace first.
    ABB&B!!!
  •  Poll numbers . . . . (none / 1)

    76% think Bush is telling the truth, or is 'mostly' doing so, while hiding something.  To me that is not enough basis to celebrate that voters are finally coming to see Bush as a liar. And to get any good from this doubt about Bush's honesty, Kerry needs to make strides in getting voters to believe he is more honest than Bush is -- apparently they are not there yet.
    •  I'm not sure about that. (none / 1)

      "Telling entire truth 20%
      Mostly telling truth, but hiding something 56%
      Mostly lying 20% [...]"

      First, the poll results you refer to lack clarity because the questions are not clear. Being kinda truthful is similar to being kinda pregnant. You either are truthful, or you're not. If the pollster framed the question correctly the results would indicate a higher percentage believes Dubya LIES. There are no absolutes. Of course he doesn't lie ALL the time. And of course he doesn't tell the truth ALL the time. So throw those two away. [First thought is to say those 20% believe 'telling entire truth' are working with less than a full deck... But the question is so wrong!] Now, did he lie to us about why we invaded Iraq? Bingo! Is he lying about how many boots we need on the ground? Bingo! Is he lying about how much money we need to sustain this effort? Bingo! Is he lying about how long we will be there... hey, he doesn't have a plan much less a timetable... just shooting from the hip, this cowboy is... lying, lying.

      Speaking of money, watch the money trail... some more, 'bout $50 bn is leaving on a one-way train and pretty soon... check out the Rep from Florida in Congress... snooker time again... Peace

      An unexamined life is not worth living - Socrates

      by crone on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 08:16:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hughes (none / 0)

    Anyone else think the Daily Show missed a golden opportunity to put up a Photoshopped picture of Osama wearing a pink T-shirt with a slogan of (oh, I dunno) "Keep the government out of my vagina!" ?
  •  Keep This Meme Going (4.00 / 2)

    Anytime the Bush administration, or anyone associated with it is mentioned, don't fail to point out that they (or s/he) LIE(S) and LIE(S) CONSTANTLY.

    Repeat this over and over again.  Whenever you're talking to a political friend, or a political foe.  If you call into a radio station.  If you're writing a letter to the editor. If you're blogging, or commenting on a blog.

    Al Franken is essentially doing this daily on the O'Franken Factor on Air America Radio.  It's important work. The media has been enormously resistant to using the "L" word in relation to Bush, tho' at the drop of a hat they suggest that Kerry has "lied" about this, that, or the other thing.  

    So we all have to keep on message, and repeat the mantra over and over and over again, until the first thing that pops into anyone's head when they see or hear Shrub is.....LIAR.

    This nicely summarizes what's wrong with American political life today. (Source)

    by GreenSooner on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 11:47:04 PM PDT

  •  Intended Consequences (none / 0)

    And President Bush has worked to say, let's be reasonable, let's work to value life, let's try to reduce the number of abortions, let's increase adoptions.

    As I pointed out over on TalkLeft, his insistence on counterproductive "abstinence only" health initiatives has arguably increased the number of unwanted pregnancies and, hence, abortions.

    On the other hand, it has probably increased the number of babies available for adoption, too, so at least part of what she said is true.


    "I play a street-wise pimp" — Al Gore

    by Ray Radlein on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 12:21:46 AM PDT

  •  Speaking of lying... (none / 0)

    Did everyone see the piece that the pentagon has seeded into most of the major papers today?  The one about Saddam being responsible for the bulk of the American casualties in Iraq?  Christ what a load of hooyee.

    These clowns were going to go into Falluja and teach those mercenary burners a lesson.  Now it turns out that 2500 Marines can't take that city.  Why is that if we are dealing with 1000 "saddam remnants"?  Well, because we are really dealing with a broad based popular uprising.

    So now the word in the papers is that we have found a solution to the "insurgency".  And what is that solution?  We decided to stop attacking it!  Man it is so freaking thick these days it is literally unbelievable.

  •  why did it take until Day One (none / 0)

    to figure out they're all liars. Didn't all those Days pre-One watching their evil lies about the Florida recount do it for you?
    •  Ugh,,,, this is why I am no longer...., (2.00 / 3)

      a democrat. Both sides lie alittle or spin or whatever. but when the party that was always suppose to be for the most vulnerable in our society can't see abortion for what it is, the destruction of innocent life, it just makes me what to puke.
      Since it is only the women that yall seem to care about, ask yourself one question...Has abortion made women's lives better? I haven't talked to a woman yet who says it has. (PLEASE don't start posting how great yours was, OK???)
      YOu gotta wonder, if the people had decided this issue instead of 9 MEN on a case BASED on lies, the democratic party would probably be a bigger and better party.  

      I submit to you that if a man hasn't discovered something he will die for, he isn't fit to live"-Martin Luther King The most radical revolutionary will becom

      by rwsparkle on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 06:43:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Had abortion been legalized by political process (none / 1)

        Indeed, I think we'd be better off as a society. That was the way things were trending at the time of Roe, and since then we pro-choice forces have been caught in the backlash.

        On the other hand, if you truly don't know any women who had abortions who would do it again (I don't think I know any who were pleased, that's a different concept), you travel in limited circles. Maybe you're right about the first woman (girl, really) I knew who had one, X, whom I had an unrequited crush on senior year of high school, and who later turned into a Republican appointee in the Bush 41 Administration—but the alley rape victim, the woman whose marriage had crumbled, and even the professional women in mid-career.... are you so sure you don't know these women, too?

        •  That is probably true, and (none / 0)

          a lot of women would have died or been hurt while waiting for that to happen.  People forget that before abortion was safe and legal, women had it done in back alleys and in Mexico and the Caribbean under unsanitary conditions.  particularly for poor women too many children is a real burden.  I would take supposedly pro-life people seriously if they didn't believe that their responsibility stops once the unwanted child is born.  How many support real help for poor women with children?  I would also take them seriously if they supported expanded contraception, to say nothing of public education and public health.  But too many of them just use abortion as an issue to enforce their version of morality on others, punishing women for having sex but not men, and then not giving them the tools to protect and support themselves.  They use this issue to keep women in a subordinate position.  While many women may believe that is preferable, THAT is the choice that should be open to all women--independence and self-sufficiency versus dependency on men.
          If you're going in the wrong direction and you stay the course, where, exactly, do you wind up?

          by Mimikatz on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 09:52:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  way off topic (none / 0)

        but I'll indulge you with one of my favorite pro-choice slogans:  

        Would you rather regret having an abortion, or regret having a child?

        Seriously.  I'd like to hear your answer.

      •  and the party... (3.75 / 4)

        that claims to be for keeping the government off individuals backs wants to regulate intensely personal behavior?

        I know of no one who is in favor of abortion.  Pro-contraception, pro-"morning after pill" - sure - but pro-abortion.  No.   It is always a difficult and tragic decision - but making them illegal does nothing to improve the situation and does, indeed, harm women's lives. This sort of intensely personal decision simply should not be made by the government.

        While there is not a death involved - the same logic holds for divorce - why not ban that to "save" families or "uphold the sanctity of marriage?"  Becuase it's often the best solution to a difficult problem.  It's not the government's decision...

        Both should be safe, legal, and rare.   In both cases the parties involved have significant responsibility to avoid the situation (and unwanted pregnancy and a failed marriage) - but making them illegal really doesn't help - instead if subjugates women and afflicts additonal suffering - which is why even far right conservative fundamentalist Christian groups now support divorce laws despite numerous clear prohibitions in the Bible (yes there are mixed verses here - but they are much clearer than texts that somehow sort of relate to abortion and homosexuality)

        If Republicans' were serious about improving social saftey net programs and lifting the millions of women and children (and men)  who NOW live in poverty up then I'd have a lot more patience listening to the rhetoric on abortion.  Unfortunately Republicans seem to be Pro-Life only from conception to birth - after that you're on your own - from then on the GOP is pro death penalty, anti-environmnet, and pro-war.  

        Personally - I'm hoping to see the new fetus protection laws used to sue the government in a case where mercury poisoning leads to a miscarriage...

        Join Soulforce-seeking Justice for God's GLBT children.
        Time to change the mindset - Obama 'O8!

        by its simple IF you ignore the complexity on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 07:37:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'd say lives are improved -- (none / 0)

        Seeing that women died in the process of getting unsafe, illegal abortions I would say, yes, many women's lives are improved with safe and legal abortion.

        If you don't like abortion work on providing alternatives that are proven to work - sex-ed programs, contraceptive availibility, and research into more effective contraceptive methods.

        •  Thank you for the good responses... (none / 0)

          I rarely get that from the other side. You all made excellent points and I want to address them as briefly as I can. First I have known literally hundreds of women who had abortions, being in pro-life work for many years. All kinds for all reasons. To answer the one's question about whether to regret having a abortion or a child, I have yet to meet a woman who would rather have chosen life, even if she couldn't parent. For every child adopted today in the US, 25 couples are wanting to adopt it. With abortion, the regret, dispair, and agony these women live with is difficult to hear about.
          The truth is that very few women died in illegal abortion. Dr. Bernard Nathenson, who spearheaded the Natl Abortion Rights League and was a part of the Roe v. Wade case has admitted that they made up the numbers of illegal deaths and that in 1972 the real number was around 74, not the thousands they claimed. Women die in legal abortion as well, but since records are sketchy (no informed consent laws in abortion) and no one wants to talk about that kind of death, we don't have the numbers, but I am betting they aren't too far off from the illegal ones. (Dr. Nathanson and Norma McCorvey (jane roe) are both pro-life now)
          As for the "punishing women for having sex, but not the men." Who really benefits from abortion? Isn't it the man who doesn't have to worry about taking care of the child? Isn't it the boss who doesn't want an umwed mother on his staff? Isn't it the Dad who doesn't want the shame? Abortion is the best thing that ever happened to irresponsible men, so don't give me that one.
          As far as the myth that we don't care about the woman or the child after birth is ridiculous in extreme. I have worked for Birthright  and the Nuturing Network, both who provide little things such as layettes, maternity clothes, bottles and food to big things such as jobs and college transfers for women in crisis pregnancies. Every Catholic Church in this country has a open door policy with helping women and children. Look in your phone book under "abortion alternatives", call and ask what they provide. You will be happy to know that we pro lifers care a great deal about the mother and the child after it is born as well.
          I just don't buy the contraception argument, although I am not against those who promote it. The truth is that all have failure rates, which translates into "baby" It is more important to me to teach young women the value of thier fertility and the value of their child and to wait until you are ready to parent to have sex. We are so selfish as a society to believe that NOTHING should prevent us from our pleasure, not even the thought that we might be creating a child we are not ready for.  
          I know that there are VERY difficult cases, rape , incest, health of mother..But all these combined total less than 1% of all abortions performed. If all but these were illegal, we would go from 4000 abortions a day to less than 4.
          I truly appreciate your thoughtful responses. Usually this topic gets nothing but barbs thrown back and forth. Nice to know that there are some at least willing to discuss it.      

          I submit to you that if a man hasn't discovered something he will die for, he isn't fit to live"-Martin Luther King The most radical revolutionary will becom

          by rwsparkle on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 11:50:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Where do you get your stats? (none / 0)

            If you are going to make statements without verifying them with real data and statistics and not numbers pulled them out of the air then your arguments are not going to stand up to criticism.

            Especially this one: "For every child adopted today in the US, 25 couples are wanting to adopt it." Now that one I know you just pulled out of your 'ear.

            I would love to debate the issue with you but you would have to provide sources for the statistics you provide.

            •  To vestokes (none / 0)

              To be honest I had just heard the 25 couples waiting for a baby for every baby adopted on the radio today. But when I lived in Dallas and worked with the Gladney Adoption Center, we had a 5 year waiting list. I don't think anyone doubts there are millions of couples wanting to adopt. Why do you think there are so many overseas adoptions now? The 4000 a day abortions are from Planned Parenthood's own statistics, and this number has remained steady with drops only since about 1987. But all this is kind of moot to the point. It wouldn't matter to me whether there were one couple or 100 waiting to adopt. I believe a child has a right to live. And how we treat our most vunerable in our society defines who we are. imo.

              I submit to you that if a man hasn't discovered something he will die for, he isn't fit to live"-Martin Luther King The most radical revolutionary will becom

              by rwsparkle on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 07:04:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  What makes my life better is not abortion per se (none / 0)

        but the certainty that I had, until recently, that decisions about my pregnancy would be made by me, in consultation with my doctor and my husband, and no one would come around and second-guess them.

        This isn't academic.  I'm planning to try to become pregnant in the next few months, and I've been dieting, exercising and changing my medication regimen in consulation with a doctor for over a year in order to get to this point.

        Like all women, I will take calculated risks.  I doubt that I would ever decide to abort a child I was carrying, but I can't say for sure, since I've never had to make that decision.

        Some would say that my case is more sympathetic than that of some high-school girl who just got drunk and careless and had sex without protection and got pregnant.  But in order for me to have my rights, I have to stick up for hers.

        •  Good luck on... (none / 0)

          becoming pregnant. I have four children, and each pregnancy was a miracle in the making for me. Just let me know when you have that first sonogram. (I had mine at 6 weeks with my daughter) And when you see that heart beating, as I did, tell me that the value of that child's life only depends on how the mother "feels" about it.  

          I submit to you that if a man hasn't discovered something he will die for, he isn't fit to live"-Martin Luther King The most radical revolutionary will becom

          by rwsparkle on Sat May 01, 2004 at 01:17:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Complexities of pregnancy (none / 0)


            As a nurse and a woman who has had pregnancy complications (one pregnancy loss at 22 weeks and considerable first trimester difficulties with a second pregnancy) I think legalized abortion is essential for reproductive health.

            What do you propose for women who are faced with the possibility of continuing a pregnancy in which the fetus faces overwhelming risks, or even certainty, of defects that are incompatible with life?  Since a woman's health is not at stake wouldn't this fit under the category of "needless taking of life"?

            These choices are heartrenching enough for couples, without the    interference of anti-choice protesters.

      •  Never a democrat (none / 0)

        You were never a Democrat. I hate when people try to make a point by simply LYING.
        •  I am NOT lying! (none / 0)

          Not only was I democrat, but my father was a democratic senator in the state legislature in Mississippi in the 60's. My whole family were democrats. A brother who ran for the senate and lost. A uncle who was also a senator and then later a mayor of a small town called Pearl(known for one of the high school shootings if you recall). And I had a grandfather who was a mayor of a another small town called Winona.
          My first vote for President was for Jimmy Carter.
          Geeze. Convinced?

          I submit to you that if a man hasn't discovered something he will die for, he isn't fit to live"-Martin Luther King The most radical revolutionary will becom

          by rwsparkle on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 07:12:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Abortion (none / 0)

        I would never have an abortion because I do NOT want children and have done all I can to prevent becoming pregnant. I also believe that we should be able to do whatever we, as women, want with our bodies. If men could get pregnant, this would be a none issue. BTW, that's not the only reason I'm a Democrat. I will not vote Republican because they take these wedge issues and attempt to divide the country on one side of other. I will never vote for a party that would be responsible for the "Willie Horton" ad. I will never vote for a party that would give tax-cuts to the wealthy on the backs of the poor and middle-class American worker.
  •  Huh? (1.50 / 2)

    This is why AirAmerica will go silent into the night. You present this is a sound argument, discussion, about the veracity of the Bush administration, but it makes no sense. When the attack is convoluted, you are trying too hard, and readers (listeners) can tell.

    Try again, please.

    ClearPolitics

    •  "Huh?" is right... (3.00 / 2)

      please explain? This comment makes absolutely no sense, Mr. or Ms. "ClearPolitics" (clear as mud)...

      -8.25, -6.26 "I'm not superstitious. But, I AM a little stitious." - Michael Scott

      by snookybeh on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 08:15:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Huh?" again.... (none / 1)

        Yeah. What was that about?

        BTW, ClearPolitics, Air America Radio is going to succeed because their programs invite polite and intelligent discussions about the issues. Unlike Rush, Hanity, and company, their program hosts invite people with different opinions to call in. Though, I suggest you do your homework first.

  •  Liars all but.... (none / 1)

    Yes, they lie with every breathe but from their perspective it's ok because it's for a higher cause...whatever the HELL that is?

    "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" E. Zapata

    by Blutodog on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 07:56:02 AM PDT

  •  "Karen Hughes, starring in..." (none / 1)

    "Bea Arthur: the Early Years"

    -8.25, -6.26 "I'm not superstitious. But, I AM a little stitious." - Michael Scott

    by snookybeh on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 08:18:30 AM PDT

  •  THANK YOU KOS! (none / 1)

    Thank you so much for posting this Kos!  Hammer it home!

    Karen Hughes. Pathological Liar.  Google Bomb?

    KarenHughesIsAPathologicalLiar.com ?

    Like a Dog and its indoor turd, we need to rub Hughes' face in her verbal diarrhea.

  •  Why is it... (none / 1)

    ... that center-left individuals weren't as vigilant about catching the radical pathological liar right wingers at their game during the 2000 election?   Gore died the death of a thousand paper cuts and no one seemed to dxt-iything about it.
    •  hypothesis: (none / 0)

      I think there's a much greater understanding of media power and the pitfalls of media now. At the time of the election, we had seen only a year of Big Lie techniques with media accomplices. Now the evidence of our eyes can no longer be rationalized with the media coverage. As an aside, my Deep South mother, Republican her whole life, has decided to sit this election out. She can't bring herself to vote for Kerry but she can't swallow Bush's lies anymore. A direct quote: 'I'm CONSERVATIVE, not AN IDIOT'.
  •  Karen Hughes - Cracked??? (none / 1)

    I just finished reading the CNN transcript of the Wolf Blitzer interview of Karen Hughes.

    Could someone please let me know if you think Mrs Hughes has been smokin'. Either that or all pro-choice Democrats and feminist are terrorists. It makes more sense to me that she hit the crack pipe or scored some good blow.

  •  Karen Hughes' speaking schedule in SoCal (none / 0)

    Mon. May 24, 2004 at Thousand Oaks 8:00 pm
    Tues. May 25, 2004 at Pasadena 8:00 pm
    Wed. May 26, 2004 at Redondo Beach 8:00 pm

    http://www.speakersla.com/hughes.html

    Protests, anyone?

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Fri Apr 30, 2004 at 10:27:42 AM PDT

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