Nader vs. Reality

Originally at everythingisnt.com:

Its like they're on this mission to re-elect Bush. Kerry hasn't even defined himself in the press yet, has not picked a VP, yet Nader is quick to tear him a new one and call him, over and over again, indistinguishable from Bush. This is an obvious lie as they (and the parties they represent) are polar opposites on social issues and the dems are much more pro-labor and pro-consumer than the GOP. I would prefer it if Nader fessed up to reality and came up with his own practical ideas as opposed to just making attacks.

In this interview Nader is asked about abortion, he claims he's for it and against it.

    RN: I believe in choice. I don't think government should tell women to have children or not to have children. I am also against feticide. If doctors think it is a fetus, that should be banned. It is a medical decision.

    PB: Between the woman and her doctor--

    RN: And whoever else, family, clergy.

And this is the guy who is supposedly 'speaks plainly' to us and show us the follies of politicians. Heck, most politicians wouldn't even try a non-answer like that regarding abortion.

That said, it's a good interview. Its Pat Buchanan asking Buchanan-esque questions to Nader. It's almost a parody of these two. Pat's big on questions about immigration, jews, isolationism, etc. Wow, I didn't know Nader had such anti-immigration policies in mind, he's practically conservative. The irony is both his parents were immigrants, but I guess when you're Ralph Nader, star of the progressives, you can get away with this kind of thing.

In some ways this interview is a depressing look into the mind of an egomaniac. Yes, Ralph has some excellent ideas which would be good, if you know, he could actually run for an office to win, but in general he's got nothing. He talks about how the easiest way to bring down a congressman is to take jobs out of their district. No shit. How would Rep. Nader handle that? If a business threatened to pull out of one of your towns if you didn't make some concession? Real life involves compromises, that's something Nader doesn't want to talk about and why he could never hold a real office. He's so much about theory it blows my mind he's actually running. The real world of politics is very different than the Nader-esque fantasy vision of an absolute perfect moral system. The guy has much more in common with the GOP in this regard, they sell the absolute moral positions to their supporters, yet it always leads to hypocrisy when real life intersects with theory. The interview ends with a very self-delusional note. I mean, does Nader really believe conservatives are voting for him? They're supporting him to hurt Kerry.

I guess that's the real allure with Nader. He'll talk the talk, make you smile and nod, and he'll never be wrong because he'll never hold office. It would be nice if he could accomplish his goals without throwing the election to Bush and working shamelessly with the GOP.

Lastly, this is not the year for theory; this is the year for action. Hell, Clinton almost got universal healthcare going if it wasn't for the GOP and Bob Dole. Yet, one of Nader's big positions is UH, and he's working for the very people who killed it ten years ago? This is madness. I hope Nader supporters are doing more than just wishing for pie-in-the sky solutions and realize that Bush has to go ASAP. If that means voting for Kerry, so what? Its not like Nader is going to win anything. Even if he could he's too pure to get his hands dirty with real world politics.

•  asdf

  He also doesn't seem that much in favor of gay rights.

  Nader constantly says that Gore lost because he didn't win all of the registered Democrat's votes. Gore didn't get the votes of all of the conservative DINOs because he was too liberal for them. Is Nader saying that Gore should have moved to the right to go after those DINOs?

  Nader supporters constantly tell Democrats that they should go after people who don't vote. If it's so easy why doesn't Nader? Almost all of his supporters would(have) vote Kerry(Gore) or Bush if Nader wasn't running.

  Finally, the latest PA poll shows Kerry up by 1 with Nader, and up by 6 without Nader. Kerry is going to have to waste a lot of resources defending PA that he probably wouldn't have to without Nader, and so that may cost him the FL, OH, or whatever he needs to pick up get the magic 270 E.V.

  Nader wanted Bush to win in 2000, because "it'd energize the progressive movement". I can see Nader rooting for Hitler in 1933. The German progressive movement was really doing well in 1940.

  And what's the deal with Nader telling Kerry to choose Edwards? Will Nader take a hike if Kerry choose Edwards?

  by jfern on Fri Jun 25, 2004 at 01:39:01 AM PDT

  •  a little help

    Can you link to something where Nader shows he isn't in favor of gay rights?  

    Thanks, I'm working on converting some pro-Nader friends.  I think a lot of progressives/radicals support him because they don't like having to sell out their values to support Democrats.  But then they go and imagine that Nader supports the exact same agenda they do.  

    by Sedge on Fri Jun 25, 2004 at 07:43:37 AM PDT

•  The third front

  Kerry's current enemies are the GOP, the SCLM, and now Nader. Its an uphill battle, folks.

  Soon, he'll get a VP and will continue defining himself and many people will slowly come to his support.  To the apathetic, swing voters, and Nader people i say - give him a chance, no one has ever been "nominated" so early in the electoral season and November is still a long ways away.  

  by skallas on Fri Jun 25, 2004 at 01:43:08 AM PDT

•  practically conservative?

  Nader's answers to Pat's questions on immigration were not only conservative, they were bloody wingnut conservative. Not to mention the whole 'feticide' thing - Nader was displaying his blinding ignorance there, considering an embryo becomes a fetus when you're 6 weeks LMP, only a week after a surgical abortion even becomes possible, before many women even know for sure that they're pregnant.

  And then there were the wingnut ideas on the other end of the spectrum - no income tax under 100K? Now, I'd like to see our tax system become more progressive, but that's a little ridiculous.

  Frankly, I came out of reading that interview thinking I'd rather have Pat Buchanan as President than Nader - and that's a frigging scary thought.

  by cyclopatra on Fri Jun 25, 2004 at 02:02:43 AM PDT

•  Nader the politician

  Nader's past proves a lot of what I wrote:

   In 1970, Nader championed a report by his staff savaging Ed Muskie, the liberal senator from Maine. Muskie, who helped engineer the Air Quality Act of 1967, had a reputation as an environmental ally, but Nader's report called the act "disastrous," adding, "That fact alone would warrant his being stripped of his title as 'Mr. Pollution Control.'"

  That same year, the Senate overwhelmingly passed a bill to create a Consumer Protection Agency (CPA), what Nader called his highest legislative goal. But, just days after praising the bill, Nader turned against it, saying that "intolerable erosions" had rendered the bill "unacceptable." As Martin writes, "Without Nader's backing, the bill lost momentum" and died in committee. The pattern repeated itself, as the CPA passed either the House or the Senate five more times over the next six years, but Nader rejected every bill as too compromised. "Ralph could have had a consumer agency bill in any of three Congresses," liberal consumer activist and former Nader associate Mike Pertschuk told Martin. "But he held out for the perfect bill."

  The final defeat came in 1978. Again, Nader's strategy was to impugn every Democrat who harbored any reservations at all about the bill. He maligned Washington Representative Tom Foley as "a broker for agribusiness"--despite the fact that Foley had bucked agribusiness to pass a bill regulating meatpackers. He attacked Colorado liberal Pat Schroeder, who had supported earlier versions of the CPA but had minor reservations this time, as a "mushy liberal" selling her vote to corporate contributors. He so alienated Democrats that, as the measure went down to defeat, one reportedly said as he voted no, "This one's for you, Ralph." House Speaker Tip O'Neill told The Washington Post, "I know of about eight guys who would have voted for us if it were not for Nader."

  http://www.cla.sc.edu/POLI/faculty/rosati/chait.nader.nr.3804.htm

  by skallas on Fri Jun 25, 2004 at 02:42:11 AM PDT

  •  Great Post

    I don't think the topic of the viability of Nader's strategy is discussed often enough, because it is hard to get past the usual flame wars. This is good, concrete evidence that Nader fails as a politician, and that we should reject his candidacy even if we agree whole-heartedly with his agenda, because that candidacy has no hope of bringing about the agenda.

    Nader's role has made me think about comparisons with the civil rights movement.  I'm far from an expert on the history (and somebody please correct me if I'm wrong), but there were crucial roles for inspirational idealists (MLK, possibly Malcolm X) as well as pragmatic politicians (Thurgood Marshall, LBJ (pragmatic is a bit of an understatement for LBJ!)).  Were there any instances of the idealists actually sabotaging the efforts of the pragmatists?  It seems the idealists found extra-political ways to work, so that there was no interference.

    by Blue the Wild Dog on Fri Jun 25, 2004 at 09:34:12 AM PDT

•  St. Ralph Is Full Of Surprises

  "Wow, I didn't know Nader had such anti-immigration policies in mind, he's practically conservative."

  Some of Nader's first published pieces, in fact maybe his very first published pieces, were in The American Mercury, a right-wing journal of such strident anti-Semitic sentiment that William Buckley would not allow anyone who'd written or edited it join the staff of The National Review.

  If you're interested in material that shows St. Ralph engaging in practices inconsistent with his current rhetoric about working people, check out yesterday's Eric Alterman post.

  "L'enfer, c'est le GOP!" - JJB, from an idea by oratorio

  by JJB on Fri Jun 25, 2004 at 05:15:46 AM PDT