Daily Kos

finding an obscure reference?

by cracklins

Fri Jun 04, 2004 at 10:16:01 AM PDT

I am writing an email out to friends and family who are Catholics (broad spectrum of party affiliations) about the recent Bush visit to the Pope.  the irony ... I also wanted to point out Bush's reference to the Pope as sir rather than his Holiness.  Social faux pas?  I want to remind people of Bush mannerisms to other people.

I want to include a reference to a meeting between Bush and a reporter. Someone wrote a diary on it and I don't recall the who and when, because Bush was acting his usual self.  The report was asking him a question and Bush kept repeating something like "are you talking to me?" until the report realized he wasn't refering to Bush as Mr. President.

Anybody know a link to this incident?

Imagine if the Pope would have pulled a stunt like that on Bush ...

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  •  Here you go.. (none / 0)

    The AP reporter called him "Sir", and Bush responded "Who are you talking to?"..

    Here's a link to the transcript.

    The Bush Administration.. Rendering Satire Useless Since 2001

    by dc on Fri Jun 04, 2004 at 10:21:21 AM PDT

  •  TPM (none / 0)

    This was covered on another blog, perhaps Talking Points Memo. One interpretation of the event is that the reporter was holding a cell phone and talking into it while he was addressing the President. It is unclear whether this is true. If it is true, then it is a rare instance of Bush behaving appropriately.

    The Real John McCain

    by Reino on Fri Jun 04, 2004 at 10:27:37 AM PDT

  •  I saw that press conference live (4.00 / 2)

    I saw that press conference live, I was home from work that day.  I forget the exact details, but it was clear that the reporter wasn't giving Bush his full attention, basically being unproffesional and rude.  

    I actually respected Bush for doing what he did in this case, political views aside, I just hate when people talk to you and someone on the phone at one time, it's rude.  

    Regarding the Pope thing, why should a non-Catholic feel the need to call the Pope "Holiness"?  And isn't Sir respectful in itself in this case?  Would you expect a Muslim leader to call the Pope "Holiness"?  Let's be honest here and not make issues where there are no issues.  God knows we have plenty of real issues to deal with in the world.

    joe6pack - www.myspinzone.net

    by joe6pack on Fri Jun 04, 2004 at 10:50:21 AM PDT

    •  out of respect (none / 0)

      The use of a title is an indication of respect for another person, for his culture.  If you came across a priest, would you refer to him as father?  Would you refer to a Christian minister as reverend?  Would you shake someone's extended hand?  Would you bow in response to a Japanese person?  

      What we say and do is a reflection of who we are and what we stand for.  If respect is inherent in your culture in words or gestures, you would emulate the respective words and gestures when communicating with people from another culture.  Otherwise, you are a hypocrite.

      I don't know you nor if you respect others, but I believe that the majority of people ackowledge the importance of respect.

      The very discipline and secrecy of the Bush administration attests to his sense of respect, yet he fails to bestow that sentiment to others.  To what degree has he shown respect for those who oppose him?  The objective of raising this point is to highlight the inconsistency of character without delving into the political examples of his disrespectful attitude toward others.  Besides, this incident was a state function, a photo-op, which desires scrutiny.

      The struggle against religious extremism begins at home.

      by cracklins on Fri Jun 04, 2004 at 11:07:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Missing the forest for the trees: (none / 1)

        Yes, you refer to a priest as "father."  Unless he's moved up the church hierarchy, in which case he becomes "Monsignor" or "Your eminence," I believe.

        "Reverend" is an adjective, not a title.  So it's "the Reverend Daniel Schultz" for a formal description.  Face-to-face, you should use the job title:  "Pastor Dan."

        But point taken:  since when has Bush ever shown respect?  Punk.

        Come, come, come to the church in the wild wood, come to the church in the vale.

        by pastordan on Fri Jun 04, 2004 at 11:25:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  So Sir was not respectful? (none / 1)

        So "Sir" was not respectful?  I think you're just looking for something to complain about.  But yes, I agree respect is huge, so I'll respect your views and move along.  one last thing, I do think he was being respectful, and I feel this is a non-issue.  Good day "Sir".  ;-)

        joe6pack - www.myspinzone.net

        by joe6pack on Fri Jun 04, 2004 at 11:40:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  "Sir" is entirely appropriate (none / 0)

        It would be unusual for anyone not a Catholic to address the pope as "Your Holiness" or "Holy Father." If you want to be strictly technical, you could use "Your Eminence" (since he's Patriarch of Italy") or "Your Grace" (since he's Bishop of Rome).
        And to be very technical, the pope's oldest title is either "Pontifex Maximus" (Great Bridge-Builder) or "Servum servorum Dei" (Servant of the Servants of God). Either of those would be a little florid, I think, for regular spoken use.

        "Your Excellency" would also be appropriate, given his role as head of the Vatican City State, but after that first reference, just plain old "Sir" is established practice. Even when speaking to the Queen one says "Ma'am" after the first time. The days when anything less than "Your Majesty" (or "Your Holiness") was considered lèse majesté are thankfully over.

        Michael
        Musing's musings

        by musing85 on Fri Jun 04, 2004 at 12:18:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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