Clinton lays the good wood on the GOP!

He is the Big Dog, after all

•  Actually

  at least thus far into his speech, I'm underwhelmed. He's not his usual rhetorical self, and he's certainly not doing as good a job as either Gore or Carter. Heck, even Hillary gave a better speech, even if it did pour gasoline on the Goopers' flames.

  by musing85 on Mon Jul 26, 2004 at 11:53:03 PM PDT

  •  Respectfully, I disagree

    I think this is a rip roaring speech. Effectively vocalizing the differences between the parties. It's easy to see why he was elected twice, despite the 8 years of attacks by the turds.

    by SteveLCo on Mon Jul 26, 2004 at 11:56:19 PM PDT

  •  Sadly, I agree

    Looks like Mary Beth Cahill neutered the Big Dog.

    I fear what they've likely done to Gov. Dean's speech. Was really looking forward to some straight talkin' ass kickin' from the good doctor.

    by em dash on Mon Jul 26, 2004 at 11:56:48 PM PDT

    •  You guys are nuts

      Clinton is doing great and reaching out to the middle in a strongly, articulate, yet simple way.  This is not the place for Gore's MoveOn speeches (which I enjoyed also)

      by sparks on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:01:18 AM PDT

      •  respectfully disagree

        The "middle" will never square to Clinton because of l'Affaire Lewinsky. Bill and Hillary are there to jointly shore up the DLC wing and the left who were angry at the way they were treated by the GOoPers. Not an easy trick that, but I don't believe the middle is the audience Bill was "assigned" to bring along.

        P.S. And what the fuck is up with the troll rating?

        by em dash on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:40:37 AM PDT

        •  wrong

          I'm the middle and I loved his speech.

          by HiD on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 07:13:41 AM PDT

          •  but you are not

            a typical voter, as belied by your insightful comments here and your obvious knowledge of the issues. A straggling middler from rural Ohio wouldn't have been swayed by Bill Clinton's remarks last night, I'm afraid. The Fox news damage has been sown and he will never be considered credible to a large portion of the voter bloc. Jimmy Carter is pegged much the same way by the brainwashed Reagan Dems. Nobel prize? Humanitarian work? Statesmanship? Pffffthbt. Them thar Iranians got over on Carter in 1979. That's all many voters remember.

            Please don't misconstrue my earlier comments. It wasn't a bad speech but I campaigned for Clinton in '92 and '96 and seen him give some real stemwinders even after leaving office. This just wasn't it. I agree with Musings that it appears (from at lest the first night) that the rhetoric dial on all the speakers has been turned to pre-January Kerry safe mode. I think that's an unfortunate decision. An Al Gore "MoveOn" speech also wouldn't be appropriate to win the middle but there is a fact-based, rhetorical style that could have been used more effectively for the persuadables.

            by em dash on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 09:46:57 AM PDT

            •  It wasn't the rhetoric dial

              they turned down, it was the "volume" knob. And I think that was a wise decision. The myriad jabs at BushCo and their failed policies last night were a lot more effective, I think, because they were delivered in reasoned tones. Fire will energize the base, but it's going to be gravitas and reason that will woo the undecided voters, I think.

              There's also the surprise factor. Who'd have thought that gentle Jimmy Carter, who hasn't played much of a public role in Democratic politics since leaving office 24 years ago, would be the one to slip the shiv in between Bush's ribs? And who better than a man who served seven years in the Navy to highlight the pretensions of Bush, trying to make his not-quite-complete stint in the Texas Air National Guard look like "serving his country."

              "He showed up." I think those may have been the three most devastating words to Bush that were spoken last night, and they were all the more deadly for being spoken by a gentle man with an authentic Southern accent who bears no malice in his heart for the man he was criticizing, but who can't stand his policies or his pretensions.

              by musing85 on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 10:33:51 AM PDT

    •  I don't agree with you.

      I thought it was an excellent speech - he very nicely sliced and diced the pretender to the presidency.  But you surely don't deserve a troll rating for your comment.  I tried to help you out.

      by DenfromWisc on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:47:38 AM PDT

      •  Thanks

        Appreciate the back up and civility to agree to disagree.

        by em dash on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:52:52 AM PDT

    •  Don't agree but 4 to counteract the 1

      I am concerned about Clinton's speech for two other reasons that I posted elsewhere but I thought there was an edge to him borne of both experience and....something darker...

      The gloves came off tonight.  It's going to backhanded shots going forward.  The swing voter wouldn't be a swing voter if the outrage affected them like it affects you and me.  

      We're pigs, hunting for truffles.

      by seriously blown cue on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 04:31:22 AM PDT

  •  I have heard ...

    ... Clinton do much better.  He's always great - but I've seen him where I couldn't stop crying.  Not tonight.  His speech at Cornell in May was better.

    by AdamW on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:07:52 AM PDT

  •  Uprated

    to counteract the troll. He/she was beating the crap out of Ogre the other night. Congrats! Looks like you've been "Heathered."

    by em dash on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:51:28 AM PDT

    •  Thanks

      But I'm truly not worrying about my mojo status. I call 'em like I see 'em, and I've been speaking in public (and evaluating other public speakers) since, oh, 1977. Clinton's speech at the convention last night was effective, it was well-crafted ("Send me" is likely to become a signature line for Kerry/Edwards, for example), and it was well-delivered. But there wasn't much "there" there, and certainly not in comparison to most of Clinton's other high-profile speeches. His first inaugural, for example, or his stump speeches from the 1992 campaign, would easily outshine this one.

      by musing85 on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 10:28:22 AM PDT

•  Clinton kicked ass!

  God, that was a great speach.  He laid some serious wood on the Republicans while being incredibly positive at the same time.

  by squid696 on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:07:05 AM PDT

•  Put up vote for me on Clinton Kicked Ass!

  That was better than any of his other speeches that I remember.  I agree with the other folks that said Bill was too centrist. Hell, if he'd really pushed all those things he was talking about, this world would be in a much better place. However, that speech got me going. It was good to see.

  by DyspepTex on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:09:49 AM PDT

•  aoeu

  99% grade FUCKING A MEAT!

  by TealVeal on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:12:42 AM PDT

•  Totally

  I dunno what people are talking about when they say he didn't do well.  That was an excellent speech-- it was coherent, well-structured, and rhetorically powerful.

  I guess my biggest piece of evidence was Tim Russert's reaction to it.  Russert's not exactly a huge fan of the Democratic party, and certainly not of Bill Clinton, but the guy was beaming at the end.  He had the look of a politics geek who's just witnessed something unexpectedly brilliant.  If Clinton can push Tim Russert into our aisle, I think he's done pretty damn well.

  by ChicagoDem on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:20:58 AM PDT

  •  I have seen him speak better....but....

    ....not by much. This was a compact speech, cramming a lot into a short time - hallelujah - and just seemed to tie up the package well.

        Don't worry about Kerry on Thursday night....he'll do fine. Not, perhaps, as well as Bill Clinton did - but certainly good enough.

       

    by Ed Tracey on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:26:52 AM PDT

    •  Better before, but...

      I'll agree, he's been better - but I think that might be like bitching about seeing Jordan have a 30 point game but not making a triple double.

      by Dunkerque on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 01:00:39 AM PDT

•  Even the right wing media...

  is conceding that Clinton did a fan-fucking-tastic job.

  I am so perked up right now.

  by Maryscott OConnor on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 12:24:46 AM PDT

•  Bill Clinton is Still the Big Dog

  I give him his props. Within the bounds of civility laid on convention speakers, Clinton gets a 97%. He was long, but not too long. Gore gets an 85+, and Carter gets a 75%. Hillary gets a 65%.
  

  by The Messenger on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 01:09:02 AM PDT

•  Clinton's Big Mind

  'Watched the Clinton speech with former county chairpeople, all Democrats, but a mixed loyalty to Bill Clinton.

  They were uniformly amazed and felt it was his best speech ever.

  These folks are grizzled realists and they were wowed to the max.

  The man has a big mind.

  by Zen Lemon on Tue Jul 27, 2004 at 01:18:15 AM PDT