Kerry wanted to hit SBVT sooner

From Kausfiles whose opinions I despise.  But this is an intriguing rumor.

 P.S.: kf demands more reporting on what the Note calls the "dissension" in the "wobbling" Kerry campaign. What kf hears--i.e. this is the rumor, not necessarily the truth--is that Kerry aides Shrum and Cahill are being blamed for the slow reaction to the Swifties. The candidate, it's said, wanted to fight back but was restrained. (How odd if Kerry ended up blaming his staff!) Underlying the anti-Shrumism is the dissatisfaction of some Kerry advisers with from the "battleground" strategy of peeling off a few key Bush states rather than attempting a big, general shift of public opinion. ...

 Despite Kaus's snark about blaming his staff, I am gratified in knowing that it was Kerry's instinct to hit back. Also I agree with the battleground state criticism as well.  It's putting too many eggs in too few baskets.  Also the general public attitude influences the battleground states as well.  Bush may be running big numbers in the red states but it shows up in the polls and that's what the nondisriminating media talks about.

From my comments
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2004/8/19/05928/2684/3#3
The diary as a whole
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/19/05928/2684    

Lies that go unrebutted begin to seep into the general media culture. It deprives us of the  swing voter in inherently conservative, anti Eastern Establishment states like Ohio. Their bias is to trust Bush and believe these liars.
I said it was ostrich like to ignore it, a Dukakis-like inability to understand that no matter how self evident it seems to Kerry and the campaign  that they are liars, that unless you directly reveal their lies, they will gain subterranean credibility. They can't believe that people will believe them.  Well I know non fanatics who believe them.

And in different post
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2004/8/18/211631/756/118#118

These men's lies must be directly rebutted and clearly labelled as lies. Either MoveOn should do it or the the DNC or a 527.  BUT IT MUST BE STRONGLY COUNTERED.

If this rumor is true it's nice to know that I was wrong and the candidate has good instincts. It is also why I had nagging doubts about the convention be so positive and not exploiting the failure that is GWB.

I also thought it was clearly wrong to pull the McCain ad, because Republicans have no honor and feel no pressure to reciprocate.  The MoveOn was different because it was an old ad  not a direct rebuttal to the Swift Liars.

I sure hope they come out swinging now.

•  Shrum is a fucking idiot !

  That's why his candidates are 0 for 8. I am afraid it is too late already. Bush is able to gain some grounds now.

  Call me a whiner if you want but unless Kerry gets rid of Shrum or stop listening to him, he will lose the election.

  Shrum is not a strategist. What is Shrum good for? writing speeches and that's it.

  Kerry must run ads against the SWB liars and Bush , must fight on 2 fronts. If you don't directly challenge them , people tend to believe those charges.

  Shrum is a fucking idiot. He is not the guy who can fight in the pit and fight dirty. When your oppenents hit below the bells, you must hit them back abd hit them below the bells.
  

  by desperate04 on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:09:36 AM PDT

  •  Cool web site

    http://www.swiftboatliars.com/

    by DCDemocrat on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 04:42:25 AM PDT

•  I posted 10 days ago

  tht kerry must break out, break past the consultants, they will lose this.  I said: Call Al Gore, he will tell him...

  What are instincts if they are not used?  and as President?  Who will he listen to, the consultants?
  Ths is down to the nub, get busy and fuck the windsurfing.  No time.  Go to wrk, if he wants my vote that is.

  by Marisacat on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:09:53 AM PDT

•  I'm thinking

  It's Carville time.
  

  by bornadem on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:11:27 AM PDT

•  Well

  If Kerry thought that he would have been wrong.  the timing was just right if you ask me.

  by Armando on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:18:59 AM PDT

•  Shrum is again a fucking idiot !

  I also disagreed with the "play it safe" strategy.

  This is a national campaign for president for godsake. it is not a little local or state race.

  Kerry should have responded forcefully when Bush attacked him as flip-flopper. Just run ads telling voters that Bush is the flip-flopper in chief. How difficult can that be? Kerry raised 230 millions. What the fuck did they do with all that money? I am sure Shrum collects a big chunk of that sum for his service.

  I heard on radio today Bush was talking how Kerry could not decide if he has a SUV or not. Bush also mocked Kerry on the flip-flop issues.

  I contrinuted lots of money to Kerry because I believe he would fight back with both hands. I was concerned about Shrum and Devine. Remember Shrum and Devine ? Yes, same crew from the 2000 disaster.

  by desperate04 on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:22:24 AM PDT

  •  Limits

    Kerry on the cap now 75MM. He's not going to blow it in August to refute this when he can do it through free media as he did.

    by Armando on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:05:08 AM PDT

•  God I posted to tell you we have a fighter

  for a candidate.  Not to create a storm of fury.  But I do think we have to go hard against Bush.  That I do.  

  So blog the campaign's blog site.  Tell them to fight, not only back but on their own terms

  Armando, I know how you felt earlier and how you feel now.  I would rather you be righter in this than me.  But given the media's quick and easy subservience to the Republican view any advantage for Dubya has been and will be flogged endlessly, esp. cable TV.  Look at how Koppel has already rationalized Bush's "We can't win the war on terror"  

  We have to make them bow to our views by the strength, assertiveness and repetitiveness of our attacks on Bush.  

  by debcoop on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:33:16 AM PDT

  •  I think Armando is

    Right to large degree.  Kerry knew we couldn't cede the WoT to Bush.  He was right to believe that we won't win unless this fear people have is settled, that Kerry is an acceptable alternative in this stewardship of keeping us safe.  We can intellectualize this thing to death but we don't have time to educate the public.  We know there's a tactic that the Republican's push:  Keep 'em afraid!  If we don't settle this fear voters have, we don't win.

    Now, on the part where you are right.  We can walk and chew gum at the same time.  We settle the first question about WoT and we're free to push a domestic agenda and prove that the Bush Admin. doesn't have one, out of touch with your problems, etc.

     

    by Cathy on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:51:23 AM PDT

    •  Kerry's warrior Vietnam credentials

      I have always thought would be essential in fighting Bush's contention that only he could be the commander in Chief.  

      I said that in Iowa over and over. So I think burnishing his heroism credentials at the convention was important, but we should also have bashed Bush. It reminded me of his taking it for granted that he was ahead in part of the primary campaign.  I was angry with the campaign and Jim Jordan. I was despondent then, but I was wrong.  Beause then he got his back up and came on strong.  

      His military instincts are not just his resume, but it is how he thinks and acts.  I hope he shakes them off and does it his way if that rumor is right.

      by debcoop on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:04:28 AM PDT

  •  If he's a fighter

    Why isn't he fighting harder?

    This rumor I take with a grain of salt, but supposing it's true for a moment, that Kerry let his advisors talk him out of a fight, then how is it that Kerry is a fighter?  Why didn't Kerry just tell Shrum how it's going to be?  

    Why does Kerry even have a guy like Shrum running his campaign?  That doesn't seem like a fighter.  A real fighter would have someone like Carville running the campaign (or a big chunk of it, like the rapid response department).

    I wish Dukakis would call Kerry to tell him how much he's reminding him of his '88 campaign....

    by Subterranean on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 02:36:13 AM PDT

•  Well, if it's Cahill

  she is blowing it some more with this idiotic letter she's sending out.

  They want us to call the Bush campaign about the latest Ted Sampley smear, a smearer she reminds us is still smearing McCain? Now, why do I care about that connection?  Am I a swing voter that would jump into swifter action just because they are heaping on McCain, too?  And what would a flood of calls to the Bush campaign accomplish?  These venal miscreants that mock purple hearts?  Oh, it's a media story she wants?  Hmmm, that's a pathetic story.

  It was super smart to put this on Bush's front porch.  The connection to the camp is real, it's their modus operandi, OK, but enough with the pleas to the Bush camp to stop it.  You've made your point.  

  Now, my rant done.  I've been a defender of the campaign.  I have not lost faith in the candidate and for good measure, I'd like to point you to my pep talk so nobody thinks I've gone "negative." Uh, if you're not in the mood for a pep talk, don't click here

  by Cathy on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:35:04 AM PDT

  •  Begging them to stop

    Maybe this shit works in MA, but it sure comes off as weak and pathetic in the rest of America.  

    Why oh why is Kerry begging them to stop attacking him?  He sounds like a freakin' pussy, begging the meanies to stop with their mean attacks.  I want a candidate to be a bad-ass!  Kerry should be kneecapping them when they're up and kicking them when they're down.  I'm worried that he doesn't understand the severity of this campaign, that maybe he thinks it's just neat to run for president even if he doesn't win.  

    Fuck I wish we had Dean or Clark or Edwards up there running for us.  I'd feel a whole lot better with a candidate that knew how to brawl.

    by Subterranean on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 02:41:38 AM PDT

    •  RE

      Well, unlike Clinton, win or lose, Kerry never has to work another day of his life.

      I want a candidate that runs as if he future livelihood depends on it.  Clinton sure ran that way back in '92.

      by jg on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 03:11:43 AM PDT

•  Instinct But No Action, Gets You Squat.

  Not to sound infantile... but wouda, shoulda, coulda, but didn't.

  If Kerry didn't hit back as soon and as hard as he could have, he's got no one to blame but himself. It's not like the Swifties surprised anyone.

  Now, okay, I'll admit it: I'm a pinhead, and those advisors to Kerry have shit loads more brains than I do. It doesn't, however, take more than a few I.Q. points above freezing to realize that 2 weeks of saying nothing would cause damage.

  You can argue all the "rope a dope" strategy all you want, but the harm of the delay, (if done in hope of timing the blow back to hit the Rethugs just prior to their convention) has far outweighed any benefit.

  My only hope is, that now that Kerry's step in the shit pile, he really makes sure the stink stick to Bush.

  by Dunkerque on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:47:38 AM PDT

•  It was 10 days

  He first brought it up on Wednesday.  But I thought just focusing on pinning it on Bush without calling and demonstrating that they were liars was insufficient.

  Second I misgivings about the coordiantion thing because it did bring up the other 527's on our side and allowed them to divert the issue.  

  You can't assume that the Repubs would bow to pressure (and the media mostly generated no pressure)  and repudiate the ads.  

  by debcoop on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 12:56:16 AM PDT

  •  Ignore the Media

    Make them cover the story - even if they are crticizing you - which they can't on the Unwinnable WoT - cuz Bush said it.

    And Rudy repeated the 9/11 BS - Rudy put it in play.

    by Armando on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:03:29 AM PDT

    •  yes

      flog that over and over.  Push his unsteadiness

      by debcoop on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:05:52 AM PDT

      •  Just get the coverage

        Let em spin - they'll have to run the bush tape.

        by Armando on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:08:35 AM PDT

•  Why are his advisors such pansy asses?

  by DaveTX on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:04:55 AM PDT

  •  Let's see

    what happens on the Unwinnable WoT. If they don't attack on that, I'm done. Seriously - it will mean they want to lose.

    by Armando on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:06:13 AM PDT

    •  They already have

      Edwards was on Nightline saying, "I don't know what the president is talking about. Of course we can win the war on terror."

      by hamletta on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 04:28:45 AM PDT

      •  Kerry needs to say it too

        by LionelEHutz on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 06:41:23 AM PDT

•  RE

  Its not too late for someone's head to roll over this SBVFT disaster.  

  We spent two weeks boringly and painstakingly refuting their charges, but guess wha?  You can't muddy the waters after the story has been out there that long with immediate and strong refutation.  

  I really fucking hate it that there team is better than our team.  

  Kerry has the luxury of losing this election and going home to one of his mansions.  The rest of working stiffs are the ones that suffer if Bush is elected.

  At least the story shows that Kerry's first reaction was too fight.  A lot of good that does us now.

  And then to add insult to injury, the Kerry camp kowtowed to that blow-hard McCain and pulled their best ad.  Yeah, I am pissed ...

  by jg on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:36:59 AM PDT

  •  RE: should be "you can't unmuddy waters"

    and yeah I am still pissed-off.

    I am not sure how they play this game in MA, but so far I am less than impressed.

    by jg on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 01:40:10 AM PDT

  •  Let's remove the spin

    "First reaction to fight" sounds good, but let's look at what really happened:  Kerry's first reaction was to fight, but his first decision was forego his own judgment to cave in to his pussy advisors.  It sounds like Kerry has poor political judgment.

    by Subterranean on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 02:46:44 AM PDT

    •  RE

      Fair enough, but my hope is that he won't make the same mistake and will learn how this game is played nationally.

      Lets face it though, Kerry is more than capable of running a crap campaign.  It was less than a year ago that he did just that - he can also turn it around when he has to.

      Just missing the fight of Clinton and hell, I dare say, Gore.

      by jg on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 03:05:33 AM PDT

•  Hmm, doesn't Kerry do this

  every campaign?  It wouldn't be a Kerry campaign unless.. it hit a major lull and seemed to go nowhere right up until crunch time.  

  As for Shrum.. I am not a fan.  Yeah, he tells his candidates to use the verb "to fight" as much as humanly possible.  Never have I been so bored by fighting.  And the Swift Liars thing.. for crying out loud.  Get people out there on every cable show and call a lie a lie.  

  by daria g on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 02:21:58 AM PDT

•  Kaus?

  Why is anyone even listening to rumors from Mickey Kaus? Kerry knows what he's doing.

  The GOP convention this week I think will turn off a lot of voters-- it may even result in W's numbers going down. Lately when W gets a lot of exposure, his numbers have gone down. There's a good chance of this happening again this week.

  -N.B.

  by npb7768 on Tue Aug 31, 2004 at 06:40:17 AM PDT