Daily Kos

Bush Needs to Win

Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:16:27 AM PDT

Ok..don't lynch me.  

I'm an avid Democrat and have been for 30 years.  I fall more in the Kucinich camp than the Kerry camp.  I've gotten behind Kerry giving LOTS of money to his campaign, MoveOn and Congressional campaigns.

But as I watch the polls, the electorate and the clowns called the media, I think I've decided that Bush really needs to win this election.

We seem to be a people who don't mobilize based on information.  We seem to only really get our act together when there's pain...and lots of it.

Take note of the Vietnam controversy.  As the mess in Vietnam turned into a painful American loss, the concensus in America finally, was that we had lost.  There was a small minority of individuals with short memories who persisted in a belief that we "lost" only because "politicians" prevented the military from really fighting all out.  Besides nuclear options, I've never been quite sure what that exactly meant...but that's their claim and they're sticking with it.  

Today, those individuals, plus many more me-to's, have come out of the woodwork rewriting history as Iraq begins to look more and more like Vietnam.  We could have won Vietnam, they scream, if we just had the "will".  Iraq is their chance to prove the point and Bush is just the stupid stubborn asshole to carry it out.  

This delusional state is now permeating the discussion of the Iraq war.  Well, we've made some progress because at least we're calling Iraq a "war" instead of a police action.  Thanks to administration ineptitude, we don't even have the cover of the U.N. in Iraq.  But remember, it's tough to use logic about war because since 911 it's hip to be afraid...nevermind that you're much more likely to be killed in a homicide, most likely by a loved one (1 in 197) than a terrorist (1 in 88,000).

Next, let's turn to the fundamentalist movement in this country.  Many have argued that America has lost it's moral soul and that we must be saved.  The "Left Behind" (should be called "Right In Your Face") books are selling like hot cakes as the new chic trend is to be "saved".  As these voices grow in political strength, their impact on our culture is as inevitable as hip huggers, tube tops and reality shows.  People have always tried to find significance outside themselves and this is just another attempt at this.  And like all such attempts, it's doomed to failure because the deficits are within.  But that can't be discovered until, like most everything in America, these trends run to the ridiculous.

Finally, I want to take a quick gander at young "voters".  I put that in quotes because they don't vote.  Of course, they could.  But they are so generally pampered and Speared that they just can't be bothered to take twenty minutes and go to the polls once every couple of years to express an opinion about how their world should be run.  Thus, the decisions are left to the geezers (and the baby boom bulge going through the demographic snake is just growing) who are more comfortable with Lipitor and their investment accounts than hip-hop and hooking-up.  

I could go on and on about the environment, global warming, petroleum, campaign finance reform, yaddayaddayadda....These are just three examples of current trends in our country.  I'm beginning to think that these trends, as well as many other factors, may have to play out to extremes before these trends can be countered.  And any liberal push-back just envigorates those pushing these trends.  When deaths and failure in Iraq become so undeniable that someone listens to Sy Hersh....When religious fundamentalism is so cocky (using the term purposely) that the hypocrisy becomes absolutely ridiculous and undeniable to even a dunce....when the young are drafted and having to die for the President's "resolve"....then perhaps people will open their eyes.  And a Kerry victory either postpones this inevitability, or it makes it possible to pin it on pointed headed liberals.

I've always contended that it's not the corporate media or lousy political leadership that has us in this fix.  It's simply a lack of an alert, informed citizenship.  Not that we don't have the capability.  But you have to give a shit.  And until things get bad enough....not...quite.... enough give a shit.

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  •  Bring It ON! (3.33 / 9)

    :)  I'm ready for the numba's....
  •  American voters are not qualified (4.00 / 3)

    We are not qualified to choose the president.

    Half of me agrees with you and wants to throw up my arms and scream at the electorate "you get what you bloody well deserve" and the other half (the more rational side, I believe) would rather scream "wake up, you're on fire!"

    Our country is mentally ill.

    "I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..." - Elvis

    by Gearhead on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:25:51 AM PDT

  •  Yes, I'm tempted to (4.00 / 2)

    say, America,you deserve this idiot. But this idiot affects all of us, and sure as hell, we do not deserve him. Besides, I'm not likely to move to Canada soon.

    "I'm the Vice-President. They know it, and they know that I know it." --Dan Quayle

    by BaltimoreDem on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:27:37 AM PDT

  •  Humph... (none / 1)

    Finally, I want to take a quick gander at young "voters".  I put that in quotes because they don't vote.  Of course, they could.  But they are so generally pampered and Speared that they just can't be bothered to take twenty minutes and go to the polls once every couple of years to express an opinion about how their world should be run.  Thus, the decisions are left to the geezers (and the baby boom bulge going through the demographic snake is just growing) who are more comfortable with Lipitor and their investment accounts than hip-hop and hooking-up.

    Yeah y'all voted all right.  Those Nixon and Reagan landslides were particularly delightful examples of political acumen.  And what a wonderful, non-fucked-up political situation you've left for us to inherit.  Boy am I glad I get to pay the Social Security tax I'll never see again b/c it'll go towards covering a bankrupt system which will more than likely collapse under its weight of debt long before I get to use it.  But at least I have a job-- until it gets shipped overseas thanks to the farsighted results of 30 years of increasing free trade policy.  I should save up though.  Not for a house or car or any luxury like that.  Nah, I've got to make sure I have enough money to pay for the gigantic tax hike we'll need to pay off the enormous debt you've left us after that 50 year long cock measuring contest with the communists.  Not to mention the geopolitical situation which, in case you haven't noticed, now has religious fanatics trying to kill us solely because we're identified with a national leadership that acted in horrible, anti-democratic ways all over the world as part of the aforementioned cock-measuring event.

    Thanks guys!!

    I've seen a great deal of interest about this election among people my age.  In fact, I think your post makes an excellent point, if unintentionally.  If Bush wins, it really doesn't matter to older folks so much.  I mean it'll hurt-- going from employer funded health plans to "the ownership society" will be tough-- but we're the ones who'll have to deal with the draft, the debt, the ruined environment, the dwindling supply of resources, and a society with no functional safety net.  Young activists are doing whatever we can to get people our age to the polls, but that kind of sneering attitude among the generation that thrust all of these problems onto our backs because they were too busy voting in tax cuts to address their responsibility to their nation is pretty damned counter-productive.

    Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

    by ChicagoDem on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:32:29 AM PDT

    •  Thanks (none / 0)

      I'm not sure I agree with your first assertion.  I wouldn't even compare Nixon and Reagan to Bush.

      The second part about young people is exactly my point.  I keep saying to my kids (one of whom is quite conservative), "I'll be dead as this stuff plays out, you're the ones to pay the price".  He just argues back.

  •  This line of reasoning... (4.00 / 5)

    ...is insane.  

    The Communists of Germany had a saying in the 1930's.  "Nach Hitler, uns."--After Hitler, us.  Meaning, that Hitler would screw things up so badly, the people would grow sick of it, rise up, and have a revolution similar to the Russian October Revolution.

    We all know how well that plan worked.  The Communists realized how wrong they were when they rotted away and died in Dachau.  Bush must be sent packing now.  

    "Raybin is not a lying maniac. I've found this person to be an extremely clever and devious lying conartist, but never a maniac."--RElland on Daily Kos

    by Raybin on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:33:34 AM PDT

    •  Polls (none / 0)

      The polls disagree with you...at least so far.  And I've come to realize that the German people were not monsters.  They were afraid.  There but for the grace of god go we.
      •  Not monsters... (4.00 / 2)

        ...but astonishingly misled.

        I urge everyone to read Robert Gellately's "Backing Hitler" which shows just how Hitler was able to do what he did in absolute plain sight of all German people.

        The primary method?  A totally compliant media.  The parallels scared the fuck out of me, I admit.

        "Raybin is not a lying maniac. I've found this person to be an extremely clever and devious lying conartist, but never a maniac."--RElland on Daily Kos

        by Raybin on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:50:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  THANK YOU (none / 0)

      for showing me I'm not alone.

      I talk to so many fellow lefties who are accepting this "must get worse before it gets better" logic.  And yes, sometimes it does get worse before it gets better.  But it also has to get worse before it gets even worse than that.  Call me a "liberal" (I know how some of you radicals do hate us), but I'm not willing to roll the dice with my country like that.

      I had the good fortune of taking a course on German History 1919-1945, and if there's one thing it taught me it was to never let it get worse so that it can get better.  The Communists also said there was no difference between the Social Democrats and the National Socialists (sound familiar, Ralph?).  In coalition, they could have stopped Hitler from ever taking power.

      Good God, people, let's do everything we can to win this election.  If we lose, we'll figure out where to go from there.  But because polls are showing a statistical dead heat rather than a Kerry lead it means the race is over?  If we're going to spend the next month and a half already planning for 2006 and 2008, you can be certain we will lose.  Let's hold off speculation on the next election and first make sure there will be one.

      •  My Diary (none / 0)

        is not an admission of defeat...though I can see how it might appear as such.

        I'm just trying to explain...despite what seems as obvious as the nose on my face...why people continue to support such an OBVIOUSLY loser President.  I find it confounding unless I have some sort of explanation.  This is mine.

        I hope it's not so.  I hope the legendary "wisdom" of the American electorate shows up.  But I've now observed revelations,...one after another...that should have taken down any other leader through impeachment/resignation.  And Bush not only survives, but is the current odds on favorite to win another term.  I have to try to rationalize that somehow.

        •  Fair enough (none / 0)

          I would just plead with you to put off all rationalizing for now, however tempting it may be.  Elections don't only depend on voters' wisdom, they also depend partly on how energized each sides base is.  Every time we talk ourselves down it makes us and ourselves and everyone on our side less likely to vote and less likely to get others to vote.  Even before that it makes us less likely to write letters, less likely to make calls and ring doorbells, and less likely to be able to convince any swing voters we know to make the right decision.  Demoralization is horribly contagious.  The cure is not blind optimism, which I would never request from you, just to keep in mind that ultimately it is we who will decide who wins this thing, not only by what we do on election day but by what we do on every day until then.  It's not about faith, it's about action!
  •  There may not be any people left to give a shit. (none / 0)

    Nuclear options are more in play now, so how long can we wait for the idiots to wake up?
  •  When will the voters wake up? (none / 0)

    I teach US History to juniors and can say that the only issue they seem to be concerned about is the draft.  The good news is they aren't old enough to vote; the bad news is they will be in a year.  

    When I have kids who don't seem to care enough to do the work to pass the class, I liken them to the electorate who don't seem to care enough about the issues to pay attention to what the candidates are saying.  I often want to tell my slacker students that I can't be the only one in the room to care about their grade/future; same goes for the electorate.  I can't be the only one to care about their lives/furture.

    Imagine.  If the country were only awake, any one of Bush's failures would be enough to bring him down.  As it stands now, I can't hope for any more just to win this election.  As much as I hate to ask, do we have a Democrat who could have won this election?

    •  Don't know (4.00 / 2)

      As much as I hate to ask, do we have a Democrat who could have won this election?

      I still believe in my heart that John Kerry will win.  That may be naive, but there it is.

      That being said, assuming Bush wins, you ask an interesting question.  As much as it might please me to say that Dean or Clark (My #1 and #2 choices, respectively, in the primaries) would have done things differently and won...I just don't see it.  If Kerry loses, it will be because of a media gang-mugging the likes of which not even Al Gore experienced.  I fear we may be seeing the initial stages of that right now.  I think the next fortnight will tell us for sure.

      "Raybin is not a lying maniac. I've found this person to be an extremely clever and devious lying conartist, but never a maniac."--RElland on Daily Kos

      by Raybin on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:40:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've been hearing this a lot from.. (none / 0)

     some of my friends, many of whom are voters in their 20's and early 30's very discouraged by the way my boomer generation has screwed things up.
        I've personally never voted republican, even if tax benefits might have been in my interest., there are more important things than ones pocket book. And it doesn't benefit anyone if they have a few more dollars in their checking account and the world has gone to hell, and their fellow human beings are living misery.
       We need to encourage voters of all ages to get out there and do their civic duty. Having elections take place over a weekend, motor voter registration,hell, offer a $200.00 tax credit to every voter if we need to, short of paying individuals to vote, that ought to motivate some more of them to come out.
       I know a lot of people say that we deserve what we get ...but in the case of George Bush no one deserves that..and I also have the fear that if we don't vote these guys out now, we run the risk of losing the chance to do so in the future.
       This is the time to vote as if your life depended on it...because it does.

    "Calmer than you are Dude....calmer than you"

    by sula on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:43:52 AM PDT

    •  I think (none / 0)

      you have put your finger on something I agree with wholeheardedly.  The baby boomers have been a TERRIBLE political demographic group.  Over indulged, spoiled and without much courage, we have primped and pampered ourselves to this state.

      Sorry that young people will have to clean it up...but that's the reality.

  •  my only consolation (none / 1)

    on the chance Bush might be re-elected is that he would have to deal with (face) the consequences of his failures for once, and that perhaps the total inevitable disasters of a 2nd term would kill off the neocons and right wing cabal for quite a while to come.  In which case I could agree and say, this country gets the president it deserves, and maybe if things go right to seventh hell, maybe there'll be a resurgence of progressive, or at least moderate, politics.

    But the costs of such fatalism would, I think, be too severe to contemplate.  The idea of watching a few more Scalias added to the supreme court, the total loss of reproduction rights, the steady encroach of a police state and 1984 culture would, I fear, create lasting damage to this country and what, supposedly, it stands for.

    It is too early to give up the fight.  I feel like I'm fighting for the country of my son's future.  And I don't want him to live in Bush's America for  any more years, let alone four or (who knows) more.

    McCain is not a moderate, a maverick, or a man of integrity.

    by marjo on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 10:46:32 AM PDT

  •  my husband (none / 0)

    says the same thing. He wants Bush to have to clean up his mess. What bothers me is that I'm afraid that Bush will just end up creating a bigger mess.
  •  Never, never, never (4.00 / 4)

    say "things have to get worse before they get better."

    Because there is no bottom.

    However bad things are at any point in time, they can always get worse than that. Lots worse.

    You only have to look around at some other countries in the world right now. Would you want to live in a military dictatorship? It happened to Burma. A fanatic theocracy? It happened to Iran. A devastated economy? It happened to Argentina. You are not genetically immune to disasters. Keep on saying it's OK for things to get worse so they can get better, keep on letting the forces of kleptocracy and theocracy and tyranny win the battles one by one, and you will get there.

    It may sound like a sophisticated historical perspective, but it is actually giving up, and conceding ground that may never be reclaimed.

    Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is.

    by Canadian Reader on Sun Sep 19, 2004 at 11:21:03 AM PDT

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