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Webb is out, and he endorsed Dean. Leland is out, and he endorsed Dean. Frost dropped out after the AFL-CIO abandoned him, and congratulated Dean in his statement.

Rosenberg is evaluating his options. Roemer is invisible.

So that leaves Fowler where he wanted -- as the anti-Dean candidate. And he'll be as effective as Edwards as the lone holdout against Kerry.

It's not over 'till it's over, but absent some big scandal or earth-shaking development (e.g. the Big Dog enters the race), it's hard to see how Dean won't be the next chairman.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:41 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  May I just be the first to say... (4.00)

    <does the happy Muppet dance>

    "O beautiful for spacious skies/but now those skies are threatening/They're beating plowshares into swords/for this tired old man that we elected king"

    by Raybin on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:41:25 PM PST

    •  Freepers attacking dean already... (none)
      Dean it is but the republicans are already on "their message".  remember how they started calling kerry a flip flopper EARLY on--around MARCH.  I guess they are ALL going to be talking about Deans Iowa scream. it would be nice to pre-empt this, or at the least make sure we don't drop the ball and answer tit for tat.

      After 10 years, you wonder if Democrats are running out of ways to say no," said Representative Tom DeLay of Texas, the House majority leader. "But then again, if they make Howard Dean the party chairman, I guess you could 'SCREAM' it.

      Richard Bond, the former head of the Republican National Committee, said: "He's a very capable guy, he's got high energy, but he will reinforce all of their worst instincts. His style and message is one that will narrow his party's options rather than expand them." I think it's a 'SCREAM, Mr. Bond said.

      republicans favorite word of the day?


      •  It's not our job to defend the chairman (4.00)
        His job is to defend us.  If the scream is all they've got... that's pretty lame.
        •  but (none)
          its not just about screaming.

          its using the scream to paint him as mad, angry, irrational.  did you see the picture of barbra boxer on the rnc website last week with the caption "new face of the dem party"?  

          its about taking images and sound bites to destroy someones character.

          its our job to protect our party--not the dnc chair's job alone.  

          •  Deeds over words (4.00)
            Dean will have a considerable amount of time to show what he can do. If he mobilizes an activist base and manages to help reframe issues on the national agenda to Democrats' advantage, this talk of a burst of enthusiasm once in the distant past will be seen as pathetic by all except the die-hard opposition.

            I actually think it may turn out to help us. If Dean turns out to be effective by any measure (especially with victories in 2006) and the Repubs are still harping on an irrelevant yell, they'll be making fools of themselves and will fail to turn to more effective tactics. Underestimating your enemy is a dangerous thing, and let's hope they do it to us.

            the spirit is restored by wounding

            by jd in nyc on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 04:53:14 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Embrace the scream (none)
            as a positive display of passion. We should all be screaming like Dean.

            When you see a Democratic friend in the supermarket or on the street, greet him or her with a hearty "YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAAAHHHHH!"

            When you pick up your kids from school or daycare, exclaim "YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAAAHHHHH!" and instruct them to respond in kind.

            When a telemarketer calls you, once you know it is a telemarketer, show your appreciation for their courtesy with a loud "YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAAAHHHHH!"

            "YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAAAHHHHH!" should become part of our progressive vernacular. If we support the "YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAAAHHHHH!", the "YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAAAHHHHH!" will support us!

          •  except that (none)

            its using the scream to paint him as mad, angry, irrational.  did you see the picture of barbra boxer on the rnc website last week with the caption "new face of the dem party"?  

            Since Dean's an internal party figure none of that matters - I highly doubt that people vote for Representative or Senator or President based on what they think of that candidate's party's chairperson.  If they did, Bush would be weighted down by the image of Rove as the balding, effete Svengali who pulls his marionette strings.

            What's more, I highly doubt that the average voter can name a party chair, or for that matter, even knows that there's a race for party chair going on.  It's important to us, because the race is integral in our self definition, and it's important to our counterparts on the right because they want to know who their oponents' leader will be, but for the average voter who thinks about elections for a month every four years, the DNC Chair is probably completely off the radar.

            The Devil crept into Heaven, God slept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on September 11th - IT<

            by tomaxxamot on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 10:00:36 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  It's not a scream, but a BATTLE CRY !!! (4.00)
          That is the way forward.  We need to summon the memories of Braveheart.  That was definitely not a scream, but a battle cry (Quicktime, 32 MB):

          William Wallace: I am William Wallace. And, I see a whole army of my country men, here in defiance of tyranny. You've come to fight as freemen, and freemen you are. What will you do without freedom?! Will you fight?

          Man: No . . . we will run . . . and we will live.

          William Wallace: Aye. Fight and you may die. Run and you'll live, at least a while. And, dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance -- just one chance -- to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom!

          •  More William (none)
            You do it because you think Moran sees you

            Wallace: She does, just like you father sees you

            Bosh--right in the nose.

          •  Abbreviated St. Crispin's Day speech (none)
            Does anyone ever notice how ironic it is that Wallace's movie exhortation is cribbed from the Henry V's spine-tingling  St. Crispin's Day speech (via Shakespeare), where he rouses the troops ("we few, we happy few, we band of brothers") to defeat the superior French forces at Agincourt?  

            Here is Wallace is using the same exhortation to repel foreign invaders that Henry uses to defeat those whose land he has invaded.

            Just goes to show the universal, and dangerous, power of words in service of any cause, even diamterically opposed ones.

      •  So Silly (4.00) think Delay and Cheney and Newt and Rove flinch from juvenile remarks? think Foxx and Hate Radio and the Moonie Times types flinch when dinged?

        Of course not, they couldn't care less, and that's in part is how they won - atleast that's what Carville said his book "Had Enough."

        Poor Wash Dems and NYT Types, they sound and act like battered spouses, cringing and cowering at the first disapproving remark.

        •  there (none)
          is no such thing as a juvenile remark.

          bush defined kerry as a flip flopper and it STUCK.

          IF they define dean as a SCREAMER (or anything along those lines), it will stick.

          it's diff in the sense that dean isnt running for pres, but we still want a chair who's going to be taken seriously and will be respected.

          you don't get it.

          •  And so (4.00)
            If they define [name] as a [EPITHET], it will stick.

            Gee, I guess our only defense is to find somebody without a name...

            "This is not about Democrats and Republicans. This is about democracy and our republic" --Howard Dean

            by David in AK on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 12:58:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Raiyan... (none)
              Please answer David in AK's criticism of your position. It is devestating, as far as I can see. Are we helpless victims of every attempted slander and smear by the Republicans? Why shouldn't we just hang up the towel then?

              the spirit is restored by wounding

              by jd in nyc on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 04:56:23 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Or better yet, (none)
                Let's just put in the person they want as chair of the DNC.

                It's strikes me as very defensive on their part. They must be really scared of Dean.

              •  why... (none)
                why are so many people ready to jump and pounce without stopping to read...?

                after reading all of these responses, i get the sense that people think i am against dean chairmanship because i was talking about republicans attacking dean.

                im not even gona start trying to prove my oath to dean. i worked on his campaign from the beginning til the end.

                it's like having me prove my oath to the US because im muslim.

                ONLY point of the post was to make sure we don't lose focus on our message. to make sure that when the republicans try to paint us as irrational, we fight back. to make sure that we are aware of the attacks that are coming.

                you STILL don't get it.

                •  express yourself better (none)
                  I was never interested in your Dean bona fides, and didn't bother to do any research on your past posts or your personal history. This is the comment section of a blog. If you get in the fray, express yourself clearly, or don't get pissy when people don't see your true intention.

                  To wit, you wrote:

                  "there is no such thing as a juvenile remark. bush defined kerry as a flip flopper and it STUCK. IF they define dean as a SCREAMER (or anything along those lines), it will stick."

                  Either you uttered a tautology (defining someone as X is the same as having X stick to them) and therefore has no practical relevance to Dean's election, or you uttered something palpably false and self-destructive (whenever Republicans start up a campaign to define someone, they will succeed).

                  My problem was with those sentences, and nothing else. It was you, my friend, who read too much into my words. My criticism had nothing to do with Dean, actually, but with an attitude towards the Republicans. If I was wrong about that, you can't blame it all on me.

                  the spirit is restored by wounding

                  by jd in nyc on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 05:31:17 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ok (none)
                    i should have elaborated.

                    1. right, dean isn't running for pres. and the role of dnc chair isn't typically a big deal. but because of dean's stature and name recognition, this position as chairman has been elevated.

                    2. because this role is going to play a significant role, the republicans, of course are going to attack the captain of the ship.  their strategy is obvious: personal attacks, followed by lies.

                    3. no one is saying that just because they want to define us, they will succeed.  the contrary--we can't allow them to succeed. we need to be ruthless and cut throat as them.  having said that, if we don't respond when they try to define us, whatever they say about us will stick.

                    i used kerry "flip flopper" as an example of something that stuck because it wasn't refuted early.

                    4. its not that republicans always succeed, we can't allow them to succeed.

                    and what's the best way to do that?

                    a. know what they are saying. (that's why i posted the tom delay quote).

                    b. refute what they say.

                    c. have your own message.

            •  Run with what you brung. (none)
              If that ain't good enough, you weren't gonna win anyway.

              What did we do to deserve George W. Bush?

              by republicans are idiots on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 05:16:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Bing bang boom (4.00)
            First. If you want to work to improve the party and the country, take a moment and think before slagging off on people with comments like "you don't get it." Don't assume I'm attacking you w/this. I'm trying to offer some constructive advice.

            We get a lot more out of this if we give other posters the benefit of the doubt. Try it. Assume they mean well. Assume they intend to help things along with their comments. Assume this is a safe place to discuss things. If you're having a hard time, click their user name and look at their history. We can get a lot more done if we stop cutting one another down and start working towards better solutions.

            I think what this poster is attempting to say is that part of allowing negative labels to bring one down is being afraid of negative labels bringing one down; particularly if that fear takes you off your core game. The point they're trying to make, I believe, is that republicans have benefited by being uprepentant, in spite of the lables that allows Democrats to lob at them.

            Part of this stems (yes) from their superior media machine, but part of it stems from the fact that being unrepentant lends their positions -- no matter how outrageous -- some human substance. There is without a doubt a there there with regards to the GOP in the mind of most American voters; somewhat less so with Democrats, and a core part of that stems from our fear of how we will be percieved and painted.

            To be succinct: until we get over worrying how we look and start working on doing right, we're not going to turn this thing around.

            Anyway; long-winded answer. Hope it helps clarify something.

            I was born in 1979, and I expect to recieve social security when I retire. Why? There is no crisis.

            by Outlandish Josh on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 01:00:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Dean Is Taken Seriously (4.00)
            Dean is taken very seriously by the Bush regime and the corporate-owned media.  That's why they demonize him.

            Any competent person will be demonized by the right.  Allowing the right to choose the DNC chair, or even worse, Democratic candidates, is a recipe for failure.

            •  Agree 100% (none)
              All that talk back in primary season from Rove about how they "want Dean" was just

              They spun that web, and the media fell right into it...I am ecstatic to see that at least WE (in the form of the 447) are not making that same mistake this time around.

              It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. - Robert F. Kennedy

              by rygriffin333 on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:39:34 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Dean would have made a great President. (none)
                Bold like Bush less the arogance and ignorance. He would have done America proud (and I'm a Clarkie).

                On topic, I liked all of the DNC Chair candidates, especially Fowler. Having Dean though would be like a breath of fresh air. I hope he kicks butt once he's elected. Just hope he doesn't change (he eqivocated on Gonzoles). I'm so tired of some Dems who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. We are in such need of someone like Dean on the talk show circuit with some power! As DNC Chair, he'd have that power.

                •  Dean will... (none)
                  ..."walk the walk."  He is exactly what the party needs right now: a leader who not only understands that we need reform, but who also has some great ideas for how to bring it about.

                  I would have loved to see Dean as president, but it never would have happened.  The Bushies would have crucified him on his "skiing during Vietnam."  

                  They also would have crucified him on not being overjoyed at the news of Saddam's capture, even though we all knew at the time (and we especially know now) that his doubts about the capture making Iraq any safer were 100% correct.

                  In short, the DNC leadership role was made for Dean.  His blunt style will be a perfect fit for a position where he doesn't have to worry about pleasing on-the-fencers or Republicans.

                  If he gets it, he will KICK ASS.

                  You tell me that it's gospel, but I know that it's only church--Tom Waits

                  by Flagstaff Ian on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 01:38:18 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  It stuck because nobody countered it.... (none)
            Bush fipflopped on issues every bit as much as Kerry and no one pointed that out. My local newspaper had a headline, "If the Flip-Flop Fits", pointing out all of the times Bush changed course under pressure.(They supported Bush too). Yet the Kerry campaign never attacked back. I like Dean and I didn't mind his scream at all. What I did mind is the media playing it over and over again a thousand times. We can't let them get away with that now. It's past history and who the hell cares. Just ignore the right wing idiots, if that's all the have to talk about then shame on them! People will see how juvenile they are- at least the ones we care about.
          •  be nice (none)
            we all "get it"
            sonme of us just refuse to "be it."

            When all else fails...panic

            by David in Burbank on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:10:48 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  OMG (3.83)
            If the Republicans criticize or ridicule our guy we're dead.  I guess we should only have a DNC Chair who will be immune to Republican and Wingnut criticism.  Maybe we should have a war hero; the Republicans would never question his patriotism.

            This aggression will not stand, man

            by kaleidescope on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:20:08 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  not that simple (4.00)
            don't make the mistake that just because Republicans call people names, it HAS to stick. If one is skilled enough, one can become rubber, rather than glue. One is not always so skilled. But on the other hand, it's not really that difficult to figure out...

            What helps too, is if the charge can be proven false or neutralized. If Republicans call Dean unhinged and crazy, and Dean starts publicly ranting on TV--or really behaves in any way that could be interpreted as ranting, that is clearly NOT the way to disprove the charge. In fact, it would just reinforce things.

            Kerry was "branded a flip-flopper"? Well to be honest, the Republicans weren't the first to brand him with that. It was something he faced in the primaries as well because--let's face it--Kerry has done things in his legislative career that could certainly be interpreted as flip-flopping. What some who were so angry about the flip-flop charge don't get is that there is a definite whiff of truth about it. And in fact Kerry reinforced the image quite well with his "I voted for it before I voted against it" comment. That was NOT a skilled way to handle that problem.

            Dean has two options--he can start appearing sober and distinguished all the time (not the course I'd advise actually, since to be honest, I don't think he could keep it up forever) or he could neutralize things by indicating something like "I can be a passionate guy, that's a personality trait of mine you'll all have to get used to it." By acknowledging that he's passionate, but NOT crazy, he could neutralize a lot of the dirt that will be flung. Then, by appearing sober and distinguished on public occasions where people expect him to throw things, he'll keep them off their game.

            Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

            by JMS on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:20:29 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I would say that you don't get it (3.42)
            Let's all cower in fear.

            Let's continue to move right to capture the elusive middle that is somehow always one step ahead of us.

            Let's support the war resolution, not because the war is a good idea (we know it isn't), but because the President is popular and to go against us will doom us.  (How has that fear-induced work out for us?)

            Let's let Tom DeLay and Rush Limbaugh play God.

            I am so sick of the chickenshit attitude on display in your post that has been pervasive under the DLC-inspired (or should that be "de-inspired") leadership of our Party, that I plan on calling out the loser mentality every time I see it.

            Sorry.  I'm through going along and getting along.

            Fuck the fearful hand-wringing.  Stand up for yourself for a change.

            •  Whoever it is (none)
              as Chair they will ridicule. It worked the last 2 elections and they will use it until it stops working. We need to shut it down asap, which shouldn't be too difficult, even with the Media Whores™ dying to run it a million more times.
              •  I say let them run it every time Dean is on (none)
                The more frequent, the better.

                And assuming Dean is smart enough to come across as reasonable and principled in appearances, then he will dispel the bullshit on his own.

                Who cares what Tom DeLay says?

                A bigger asswipe has never walked the Earth.

      •  asdf (none)
        Yeah well the Repugs are looking for a high-profile punching bag on our side, so I have a feeling the Dean attacks will go on and on and on...

        All I know is that these attacks better not distract from the shit he needs to get done. This has been my concern from DAY ONE!

        I want to win elections, and I'm not spending four years defending Howard Dean's reputation in the SCLM.

        Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds - Albert Einstein. THINK fast - talk SLOW

        by GregNYC on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 12:15:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Good! (none)
          Because we lose if we let the SCLM make that the issue--with Dean or anybody.

          "This is not about Democrats and Republicans. This is about democracy and our republic" --Howard Dean

          by David in AK on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 01:00:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  When was the last Terror Alert (none)
          Exactly, that farce ended when Dean told the world it was pure manipulation. Since Dean spoke the truth the GOP has lost one of it main tools the scare people.

          Makes you wonder why hadn't the Dems done this earlier. Notice that it was only Dems who attacked Dean for this...mainly LIEberman

        •  Don't Defend Him (none)
          He hasn't done anything wrong

          When all else fails...panic

          by David in Burbank on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:22:33 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Attack fatigue? (none)
          Certainly there could be 'attack fatigue' among the public. That happened to Newt, and the SCLM got tired of it too.

          Also, if Dean is taking the brunt of the attacks that is GOOD! HE defends! And will NOT be our nominee in 08. You can only throw so many attacks into one news cycle. Go ahead, attack dean. Rope a Dope at it's best.

          And our eventual nom can say "You've heard the republican pitt-bulls attacking Howard Dean non stop for 4 years. That's because republicans are bullies. And everyone knows bullies are cowards on the inside."

        •  Dean is one who can take it. (none)
          I have a feeling he may even welcome it because he knows it comes with the job.I hope he gives priority to making the Dem party the ones who indeed can be trusted on National security issues. I hope he maintains publicly that we are not "safer now that saddham has been overthrown". It takes courage just to articulate that idea and it's not heard much anymore.
      •  Pathetic (none)
        Just that they're attacking Dean so hard shows how fearful they are.  Why would the GOP even care who the DNC chair is?  Why would they think that anyone would WANT their opinion on who would run the DNC best?  

        This GOP strategy of "educating" the public about the inside baseball machinations of the DNC is just plain arrogant and it smells of fear.  And I bet the media reports it heavily, and also I suspect the rubes will eat it up.  

        Chances are good for the party leadership getting feedback on the GOP smear of Dean in public polls, and then telling their membership not to vote for Dean, because the polls show he's no good.  

        GOP 2, Dean, 0.

        I'm saying this as a fervent Dean supporter, not in criticism of Dean.  But after seeing how Rove was able to deftly remove Dean from the primaries, I have little faith in the media and the rubes that watch it.

        "You beat on this prick enough, he'll tell ya he started the Chicago fire - that don't necessarily make it so!" -Nice Guy Eddie, Reservoir Dogs

        by Subterranean on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 02:22:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Who cares? (none)
        It didn't matter WHO was chosen, they were going to come up with some snarky soundbite for the loyal MSM.  

        What YOU should be concerned with is coming up with snarky comments about THOSE assholes.  Dean's job is to get the MSM to cover said comments.

      •  scream for dean (4.00)
        i would like to see the lefty talking heads start to scream themselves--if everybody would give a scream the next time they are on tv/radio it would minimize the whole thing.

        scream in support of dean

      •  Big Deal (none)
        So Tom DeLay tried to be punny in talking about Howard Dean.

        Just exactly how far did that lawsuit against Howard Dean get you, Tom?

        Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

        by mini mum on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 05:30:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I scream (none)
        You scream
        We all scream
        for ice cream
        you scream
        we all scream
        for ....

        When all else fails...panic

        by David in Burbank on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:09:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I say we own it... (none)
        Yeh - he will scream it.  And it's about time.  The era of Big Government Republicans riding roughshod over the rights of working people is over.  Deal with it.
      •  In my estimation (none)
        The average person of that time (based on people who I talked to) didn't think the scream was that crazy.  It was just that the media did a good job of convincing Democratic primary voters that the average person on the street thought the scream was crazy, even though the media knew this was untrue.  

        Let them talk all they want if that's all they have.

        But pre-empting it can't hurt, especially in pointing out, "that's all you dorks have?"

        Check out my lte archive at and feel free to use my ideas for your own lte's.

        by DemDachshund on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 10:20:30 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Who cares (none)
        Who gives a crap what DeLay and the Republicans have to say about Dean? Would it matter to the GOP if Ted Kennedy says Ken Mehlman is a so-and-so? They'd shrug it off with a wave of a hand--which is what we should be doing.

        If Dean gets it, I'll personally be looking forward to being more involved with the party in the years to come.

      •  I scream, you scream (none)
        we all scream for Dr. Dean!

        I like it. ;-)

  •  I hope he gets 15 minutes ... (4.00) his desk before the Diary pummeling begins.
    •  Heh (none)
      Nice 'n snarky.

      God, why do I fear after about two weeks in charge and the Democrats haven't regained the majority in Congress and the Presidency, I'll be the only Dean supporter left here?

      "O beautiful for spacious skies/but now those skies are threatening/They're beating plowshares into swords/for this tired old man that we elected king"

      by Raybin on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:42:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Even better (none)
      would be to see a sudden 180 degree influx of mature, rational, reasoned, realistic expectations extended to the Dr.

      Shoot, I wouldn't even mind the hypocrisy.  The tradeoff would be nice.

      "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine

      by Cathy on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:54:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm very superstitious (none)
    so I won't call the race over until February 12th, when the DNC chairman is voted in. Hopefully that will be Dean, but all the optimistic posts saying "it's in the bag" and so forth reminds me of similar comments about exit polls on election day.

    What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

    by slinkerwink on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:42:21 PM PST

  •  what (4.00)
    are the odds against dean at this point?  having worked for dean in IA, i'm optimistic, but anxious. optimistic, but scared.

    wondering if the magician will try to pull out a dog out of the hat.

    •  you're echoing my same thoughts here (4.00)
      I'm anxious/scared/optimistic/hopeful, but I remember all too well the scars from the primaries of the past.

      What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

      by slinkerwink on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:43:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  my main concern (none)
        is how the "insiders" will come together to limit dean's role as chair by trying to appoint someone like roemer as the # 2 man---or trying to deligitimize dean.

        pelosi or reid--forget who, was quoted of saying that "dean (or dnc chair) will always take the que from us, and not the other way around".

        •  exactly (none)
          I don't want Dean to be hamstrung by someone like Roemer, or Fowler. I want Dean to have someone like Rosenberg as second chair or vice-president.

          What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

          by slinkerwink on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:48:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (none)
            I could get behind that.  Simon's impressive, and he's gut the nuts and bolts part down pat.

            His DLC background is somewhat suspect, but it is time to unify.  Throwing the DLC a bone at this point is probably not entirely a bad idea.

          •  The response of the party faithful (none)
            will determine this.  If the elected officials refuse to stand up on some issue Dean thinks is crucial, he's likely to take it to the grassroots and force them.  That's what they've been afraid of, I think.  I believe that he worked hard to remind them that he's a reasonable guy.  He isn't going to be out trying to sell crazy things.
        •  Kerry (none)
          pelosi or reid--forget who, was quoted of saying that "dean (or dnc chair) will always take the que from us, and not the other way around".

          Kerry said something similar on the Sunday propagandachat shows last week.  He said the Dems on Capitol Hill were "not looking for a spokesman" in the DNC chair's role.  In other words, Kerry is saying, the chair's job is to fix the party machinery and raise money, not set the party message.

          •  Kerry (4.00)
            Last I remember, he was "looking for" a victory in November, and didn't get what he was looking for.  I hope Kerry is used to it, because he's not going to get what he's looking for in Dean if Dean becomes DNC chair.  

            Kerry just doesn't get it, and he never will.  Ooops, I forgot to call Kerry a "Seven Foot Dukakis" in this post...

            "You beat on this prick enough, he'll tell ya he started the Chicago fire - that don't necessarily make it so!" -Nice Guy Eddie, Reservoir Dogs

            by Subterranean on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 02:29:48 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Dean supported Kerry. Why can't you? (none)
              Just curious. And I would like to see the bylaws for the DNC Chair that says he /she sets the agenda rather than duly elected Congressmen and Senators.

              Observance of how the Repugs run the RNC in terms of public persona could be a learning point as far as I'm concerned. They are all on message and we'd better be too. Dean will have to develop synergy with the Pelosis, Reids and Kerrys within the party. Must be a "uniter, not a divider".

              Trashing Kerry and Pelosi for stating fact is wrong. If one is against a particular policy they happen to support, then sure criticism is due. However to trash them just because they state how the DNC is supposed to operate is baseless.

          •  MJB (3.66)
            Which is like Kerry saying WE won't set the message for the party.  Hopefully with Dean as head of the DNC, WE will set the message and THEY (the DC Dems) will start listening to US!

            Why do you care...whether the people running the government have good values? Wouldn't you prefer a bit of competence, if forced to choose?" --Michael Kinsley

            by Susan S on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 03:34:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Right, Kerry's comment begs the question.... (none)
              ... which is, who does set the message?

              Kerry's comment, and the actions of Pelosi and Reid, make it clear that they think the senators and reps on Capitol Hill should be the sole creators of the message.

              If Kerry, Pelosi, and Reid are concerned that the DNC chair shouldn't determine the message on his own, they are right to that extent, but they are still missing the point.

              You have the point right.  The message is ours.  The Democratic officeholders have a role in shaping the message, as does the DNC chair, but dammit, if they don't start listening to we the people, and acknowledge our role in shaping the message, then the Democratic Party may be in the wilderness for awhile.

              •  to be honest, we are in a round about way (none)
                do you think the rest of the party would be opposing Gonzalez as the "torture guy" without sites like Daily Kos and the grassroots screaming it from sea to shinning sea?  Ted and Kucinich would say it, and they'd be ignored, like normal, but now you have main stream dems like Reid saying "He's the torture maker and im not voting for him"

                Thats power and thats change that came from the grassroots, the congress will always controll the message when we don't have a President, but we controll the democrats in congress because they are out of power and out of money without us

            •  This is why they fear him, (none)
              because of the people Dean brings with him, If Dean would just forget about all about his silly notions of Democracy they would be fine with him. When he starts making references to "we" they get really upset.

              We are all wearing the blue dress now.

              by PLS on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 04:03:22 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Reid and Pelosi don't support Roemer (none)
                Those stories were plants here. Pelosi said she did not support Roemer. I never saw any definitive support statement from Reid either.

                Kerry spent a considerable amount of time on the phone with Dean while on his Middle East trip in early Jan. See this article for verification The Hill article, Jan 12, 2005

                It says that Kerry has been trying to deal with Dr. Dean and come to some agreements over issues and Pres neutrality in '08. I think it's great to see the Dems starting to wrok together and I think it's great that other Dem leaders are smart enough to try and work things out behind the scenes.

                •  I find this really funny (none)
                  since Kerry relied on McAuliffe being biased in the primaries. McAuliffe went around to the states and strong armed them into not having straw votes because it would have given the preceived advantage to Dean. Now Kerry is worried that Dean might do the same against him...
                  •  Kerry is not running again (none)
                    what is so hard about this to understand.

                    A. No Democratic Party will nominate him

                    B. He can't say he isn't running because then he'd be out of power, so as long as the threat is there, he maintains some legitimacy

                    C. He'll be WAY to old to run, ala Bob Dole

      •  I think you can be more hopeful (none)
        The better analogy would be being a Kerry supporter in the primaries after Iowa and New Hampshire. Both Dean in Iowa and Kerry on election day were very close races. Tides could easily turn and did.

        It's clear that this is becoming a landslide rather than a close race. I'll start counting those chickens now...

        Abortions go up under Republicans. Business is better under Democrats. Pass it on.

        by JMS on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:24:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Hi, Raiyan (4.00)
      Raybin here, pleased to meet you.

      From now on, I will be referring to you as "Snorple" so there's no confusion.  You don't mind, do you?

      "O beautiful for spacious skies/but now those skies are threatening/They're beating plowshares into swords/for this tired old man that we elected king"

      by Raybin on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:43:59 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  the magician(s) (none)
      will pull pigs out of hats. I haven't forgotten that Dean was undone in Iowa not by the Repigs, but by "our" side using familiar Repig dirty tricks - whisper campaigns, the nonsensical emphasis on the "scream," etc.

      It's nice to see everybody so optimistic here 'n' all, but to me it feels the same as just before iowa. Inculcated overconfidence...being lulled into inattention and complacency.

      I expect some dirty shit in the next ten days, myself.

      P.S. - see the link in my sig...hint, hint.

  •  asdf (3.50)
    When is this vote going to take place so we can stop focusingon who Dean is and start working on what the DNC needs to become?  

    I am so sick of seeing every pundit on every show night after night analyze Howard Dean and the Democrats and who's going to get the chair and how wrong Howard Dean is for the Democrats.

    Vote him in. Let's get to work. Let's move the fuck on - we're already 5 months and 4 years behind Mehlman and the Repugs RNC arsenal.

    I'm putting my faith in Dean, but he better deliver because I'm not working to defend his honor for four years. He better work his magic everyone keeps touting.

    If he starts fucking up, he's not getting a pass from me just because his name is Howard Dean.


    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds - Albert Einstein. THINK fast - talk SLOW

    by GregNYC on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:51:14 PM PST

    •  no-one discusses the RNC Chair (none)
      --so why should they care about the DNC?

      Some panic, maybe?

      And it definitely seems that some of our "dear leaders" are not focused on what is good for the party, but their own positions.

  •  I'm still depressed about (4.00)
    Dean passing on 2008, but I guess it'll be fun to see Hillary and Kerry kissing his ass for a change.  Kerry was hysterical on MTP, not wanting Dean, but not wanting to estrange him.

    I hope Rosenberg doesn't disappear, though.  I'd love to see the NDN eclipse the DLC.

  •  Let It Be (none)
    Party leadership has some decisions to make.

    Then--its karma.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:52:18 PM PST

  •  Bill Kristol: "Why the GOP Fears Dean" (4.00)
    In an Oldie, but an Goodie - Kristol wrote, in panic, that his friends were fools because Dean posed Danger to Bush.

    Here, he outlines the Dean factors that he feared.

    "It's true that, unlike Carter (and Clinton), Dean is a Northeastern liberal. But he's no Dukakis. Does anyone expect Dean to be a patsy for a Bush assault, as the Massachusetts governor was?

    And how liberal is Dean anyway? He governed as a centrist in Vermont, and will certainly pivot to the center the moment he has the nomination.

    Thus, on domestic policy, Dean will characterize Bush as the deficit-expanding, Social Security-threatening, Constitution-amending (on marriage) radical, while positioning himself as a hard-headed, budget-balancing, federalism-respecting compassionate moderate. And on foreign and defense policy, look for Dean to say that he was and remains anti-Iraq war (as, he will point out, were lots of traditional centrist foreign policy types). But Dean will emphasize that he has never ruled out the use of force (including unilaterally). Indeed, he will say, he believes in military strength so strongly that he thinks we should increase the size of the Army by a division or two. It's Bush, Dean will point out, who's trying to deal with the new, post-September 11 world with a pre-September 11 military."

    Dean has the Power

    See this article, also by the Weekly Standard, on why The Club For Growth also Feared Dean.

    •  Yup the (3.66)
      RWM's portrayal of Dean as a liberal (not that there's anything wrong with that) always got my goat.  He was against the Iraq invasion.  So what?  That just proves him sane.  His governing record, as you point out, was undeniably moderate.

      Social Security Piratization is Welfare for Wallstreet -

      by CaliBlogger on Tue Feb 01, 2005 at 11:58:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Reality-Check (none)
        Dean positioned himself on the left of the party in order to try to win the nomination -- "Democratic wing of the Democratic party."  He made that bed and his supporters ought to be willing to acknowledge that he should lay in it.  Despite all the protestations here ("me thinks thou doest protest to much"), Dean represents the social and cultural left-wing within the Party (unfortunately, he represents the same old DNC wing when it comes to economics, budgets, and trade).

        PS: Plenty of sane people would have voted for the Authorization Bill, including out Presidential and Vice Presidential nominees who gathered the vast majority of primary votes.

        Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

        by philgoblue on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 07:59:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Excellent Work (none)
      I always knew that they feared Dean but I could never find an article about it.
      I thank you for presenting that article from a prominent Neocon about how Dean could've won.

      Chance favors the prepared mind.

      by hypnyx on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:58:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just can't bring myself to say (none)
    it. Last year I was planning my vacation while Dean still had it sewn up. He still looked locked when I left for Mexico in the second week of January. It was iffy when I left for France in the third week of January and I had to watch the "scream"ing finish while watching snow fall on Notre Dame.  I don't think I can bring myself to say he has it lo**ed.

    Don't worry Dean supporters. I'm not going anywhere before the decision.

  •  I'm new here (none)
    Who's the "Big Dog" alluded to in the original message? Who poses a threat to Dean?
  •  So Does This Mean "Dean is Inevitable"? (none)
    (flees quickly back down his hole)

    -- Stu

  •  At this point... (4.00)
    ...I am less interested in Dean's all-but-certain victory, and more interested in Rosenberg's future.

    I, for one, would like to see Dean reach out to Rosenberg prior to the vote to forge a coalition.  While I have no direct knowledge of either candidate's thinking, I would like to believe that Rosenberg cares enough about the DNC and the Democratic Party to set aside ego and find a way to work for the greater good.

    As far as I'm concerned, that Roemer character can rot on the sidelines, though.


    "A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country
    is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards."
    Theodore Roosevelt, 4 July 1903

    by AlphaGeek on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 12:10:49 AM PST

    •  I'd Like to See It Too (none)
      Rosenberg has done some pretty good stuff for the Dems and has been on the outs with the DLC for awhile.

      When I get a fresh roll of tinfoil from Costco, I sometimes wonder if he wasn't on the outs with the DLC because he was doing something good for the Dem party instead of just slitting the sails like the "Dem Losership Conpiracy" does all the time.


      Lefty Limblog - It is time to WIN instead of "Appease and Cringe". Fight the Rethugs!

      by LeftyLimblog on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:22:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  We're going to need both of these guys (none)
      We don't have the luxury of wasting a talent like Rosenberg's. I think it would be even better to have a two-headed monster DNC head. And I believe and hope that Dean will be big enough to give SR a big role.

      After all, Dean was the one to advocate reaching out to the "pickup-truck Confederate-flag" crowd -- an unfortunate stereotype for sure, but indicates that he understands that winning elections is about building coalitions. He should start with a coalition with the best guy who didn't win.
      Reality-based commentary on MA and national politics

      by Charley on the MTA on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 07:15:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I was for Frost, (none)
    but feel comfortable with Dean as well. I wish him success in his difficult task. Most probably - it will take time, so i am not especially optimistic about 2006 (especially - Congress. Governorships and state legilatures are quite another matter). We shall see the fruits of his work about 2008. And we should participate ourselves - in different roles: from analysts to candidates..
  •  Leading the Party out of the Darkness (4.00)
    •  Thanks, Al (none)
      I love this picture of Dean.  Isn't it on a poster somewhere?

      Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

      by mini mum on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 05:32:52 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Al, I love this picture (none)
      and I love your posts...

      SO GOOD to read whatever you write.


      BTW, it's hard for me to swallow bec my throat is so tight...waiting for 2/12.

    •  Muscatine, Iowa September 2003 (4.00)
      I've been lurking and just got commenting privileges. So hi from Iowa!

      This is one of my favorite Dean pictures, not just because I'm in it. That's me sitting on the ground; my face (wearing glasses) is just between the flag and the Doctor's left hip. I believe this gathering, in a back yard in Muscatine, IA, was on Labor Day. I took my husband's Republican office manager along. She and her Republican husband registered as Democrats and caucused for Dean.

      My Republican husband is a single issue voter on gun control. He caucused for Dean and persuaded many of his gun show friends around the country to do the same. He can't stand that awful man in the White House, but he couldn't stand Kerry even more. So, as usual, our votes cancelled each others for President.

      My husband does not trust the Democratic Party. I asked him how he'd feel with Dean as DNC Chair. He admitted it would make him much more favorably inclined.

      There's a reason the Republican leadership fears Dean.

      Alta in Iowa

      •  I thought it was eastern Iowa (none)
        with that beautiful old Italianate building in the background.

        If we do get vindicated next week, does anyone want to have a big reunion at the Val-Air Ballroom in West Des Moines where we can recreate the "scream" by screaming for joy?

        Check out my lte archive at and feel free to use my ideas for your own lte's.

        by DemDachshund on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 10:24:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Is that singing I hear (4.00)

    James Carville thought it necessary to remind everyone yesterday, that it has always been an
    insider's game.  

    No counting chickens yet in this corner, although I would enjoy seeing a herd of the little buggers come stampeding over the horizon, like a scene from an old western movie.

    It was odd to have read the old guard democrats repeat republican spin amongst themselves and in public regarding the "extreme liberalism" of Howard Dean.  When democrats repeat republican spin as if it is fact, it is proof how badly the Democratic Party needs a new direction for the future.

    Why on earth would any self-respecting democrat behave in a conciliatory manner toward the republicans? I don't recall republicans behaving in a particularly genteel manner toward democrats over the past twelve years.  More importantly, revenge has not been satisfied.

    The behavior of today's democratic leadership reminds me of the story about the guy who returned home to find his home burned to the ground, his dog fried, his wife raped and his children missing. His life's mission was to find the vile beast who committed those horrors against his family.

    When he finally caught up to the gang leader, he glared at the bandit; who had evil wrapped around him like a blanket with a terrible odor and demanded, "Are you the bastard who raped my wife, burned down my house, killed my dog and kidnapped my children?"  

    The unrepentant gangster looked at the visibly upset avenger and said, "I didn't kidnap your kids, I killed them and left them in the outhouse. Yeah it's me, so what's a jerk like you going to do about it?"  

    The victim fired back at the gunslinger with a rational response,"Don't you ever do that again," and then rode off beyond the horizon on his trusty steed, satisfied that he properly told the bad guy off.

    •  Hopelessly Clueless Democrats (none)
      When democrats repeat republican spin as if it is fact, it is proof how badly the Democratic Party needs a new direction for the future.

      I don't think the Beltway Democrats understand how damaging this is, or how much this behavior infuriates the people who are the base of the Democratic Party.  

      These Hopelessly Clueless Democrats have not won a national election, ever, on their own merits.  Bill Clinton was an aberration who would not have won without Ross Perot. The congressional gains in 1998 were anti-Republican, not pro-Democrat.  So many of the HCDs joined in on the Gore-bashing that they not only cost Gore votes, but they made it impossible for him to contest the 2000 election.

      The HCDs do not understand that the Democratic Electorate is just as angry at them as they are at Bush and Republicans.  If it weren't for them, their incomptence and subservience to the Republicans, Howard Dean would still be an obscure former governor from Vermont.

    •  Hopelessly Clueless Democrats (none)
      When democrats repeat republican spin as if it is fact, it is proof how badly the Democratic Party needs a new direction for the future.

      I don't think the Beltway Democrats understand how damaging this is, or how much this behavior infuriates the people who are the base of the Democratic Party.  

      These Hopelessly Clueless Democrats have not won a national election, ever, on their own merits.  Bill Clinton was an aberration who would not have won without Ross Perot. The congressional gains in 1998 were anti-Republican, not pro-Democrat.  So many of the HCDs joined in on the Gore-bashing that they not only cost Gore votes, but they made it impossible for him to contest the 2000 election.

      The HCDs do not understand that the Democratic Electorate is just as angry at them as they are at Bush and Republicans.  If it weren't for them, their incomptence and subservience to the Republicans, Howard Dean would still be an obscure former governor from Vermont.

  •  The fat lady is already on the stage (1.14)
  •  David Brooks The Resident Tool (3.50)
    Does anybody know how to contact that no talent ass-hat David Brooks at the NYT?  He was crowing smugly about inside knowledge that would ruin Dean's run for chair on Chris Matthews this past Sunday.

    I think with the help of the former dittohead I may have finally figured out conservatives.  Just believe what loud hateful people tell you and ignore facts.

    I think this is the smartest thing Democrats have done since....well....FDR actually.

  •  What does the DNC chair do? (none)
    Other than organizing the convention and going on talk shows?

    Neither of those things sound too great, especially since Dean can go on talk shows anyway.

    So could someone please explain why are we excited about this? I'm not arguing that we shouldn't be - I'm just saying that I think I'm probably missing some important fact about the scope of power or influence of the DNC chair.  If someone can point it out to me, I'd appreciate it.

    •  the DNC chair can do a lot... (none)
      but they have not done much in the past.

      Support local, state parties, build and finance infrastructure, etc.

      Our county org is pathetic from what I hear.

      Members meet once a month and read reports out loud for the whole meeting. When someone suggested to email reports beforehand so there would be time for discussion, they were ignored...

      the party is broken and it needs to be fixed. The DNC Chair can do that

      •  Excellent article, but... (none)
        That's an excellent article, thanks.  However, it seems to argue against Dean for DNC, and it seems to do so effectively.  For example:

        The Republicans understand the division of labor required to run such a political empire, and have a diversified set of leaders to build and manage their affairs - spokesmen like Bush, Colin Powell, Bill Frist, Rudy Giuliani, and Arnold Schwarzenegger; strategists like Karl Rove, Ralph Reed, Grover Norquist; managers like Roger Ailes, Ed Gillespie and Ken Mehlman; intellectuals like those at Heritage, Cato and the dozens of other local and state think tanks; propagandists like Rush Limbaugh and Matt Drudge; and investors like the Coors and Scaife families.

        Note that the Republicans' equivalents to the DNC - Gillespie and Mehlman - fall under "managers", whereas the Republicans' (cough) "equivalents" to Dean - Bush et al - are "spokesmen".

        I have no doubt that Dean is a great "spokesman".  Is he a great "manager"? If so, that's why we should be excited.  If not, I'm still not sure why we should be.

        Further in the article, note:

        Finding someone who can take on Bush on TV is not the biggest or most important part of the job of chairing the DNC. Terry McAulifffe has repeatedly said as much, and the Republicans have clearly recognized this in their recent choices for chair of the RNC. We already have dozens of national leaders well-equipped to take on the GOP each day. They are named Clinton, Kerry, Edwards, Richardson, Gore, Dean, Reid, Pelosi, Obama, Hoyer, Bayh, Lieberman, Vilsack, Landrieu, Menendez, Graham, Salazar, Ford Jr., Nelson, Lincoln, Durbin, Stabenow, Granholm, Rendell, Warner, Biden, Holbrooke, Harman, Spitzer and Emanuel. We could all add more.

        Dean is explicitly mentioned here, fulfilling a role other than that that the article says we need out of a DNC.

        •  Dean as Manager (none)
          Well, very few people in Vermont had any complaints about his tenure "managing" affairs in that state. He got nearly universal high marks for his record there.

          That's what attracted myself and least some other people like me to his campaign. That he was a more passionate advocate of what the rank and file in the Democratic movement than the Beltway creatures that served as his main nay-sayers during primary season was something of a bonus.

          Like this? Check out Answer Guy Online. (Please. Pretty please.) "I want my country back." - Howard Dean

          by Answer Guy on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 01:05:13 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  first, storm the Bastille (none)
      then grab all the gunpowder (read: money) and distribute it to the people to act as leaders in their own communities.

      The DNC sits on a huge membership database for fundraising and other uses.  Let's suppose Dean and a new team of network-savvy individuals turn that database into a force multiplier.  A 'pyramid scheme' like process (the Repugs did well in using church directories to do this) where they say 'you're in our database now go out and find 7 people who aren't.'  And expand thusly.  Then the requests go out: 'we're having a meeting, do you want to come?', 'you're in our database, can you now go out and find 7 people?', 'do you want to contribute' etc etc.

      I think the next 18 months are going to be interesting.  Only the big money consultants in DC will be upset with the results.

      I'd buy that for a dollar [canned laughter]

      by SkipWalkDC on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 07:45:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  There's a guy in our DFA group (4.00)
        who tells this story.  Last September, a Republican friend of his gave money to the RNC via their website.  Within 24 hours, he recieved a phone call from his local precinct captain.  THAT is organization.  Meanwhile, not even state parties can get any lists from the DNC - county parties can forget it.  They are all so territorial and want the fundraising for themselves.  If they work together, they can triple the fundraising and all of them can have it.  And if they make county parties more ACTIVE, then we can get some participation from current Dems who never get involved.  And they will bring others.  And we will grow.  You can't maintain solid grassroots organiztion without some personal contact at the local level - we've really been missing that.  Our county parties are almost non-existent in many states.
        •  You are 100000000% right on that (none)
          The DNC's "voter file" was the worst thing I had ever seen. When we were sitting in July training our field team(s), we brought up this so called brain child of Terry's "Dem-Zilla" that was a nationwide voterfile, and so for an example, we looked me up - It had my 5 year old address, wrong phone # for that address, wrong voter history, Im a 6 of 6 voting democrat, yet it said i only voted twice, and it had me voting in a year before i was even 18 years old.


          Don't believe all that bullshit the DNC spews out, their voter file sucks, their bottled lightning sucked, their dashboard program sucked, they take credit for all the money raised in 2004, never mind that over 75% of it came FROM THE INTERNET and before Dean, they were collecting about 8% from the internet and their small donations have increased over 200% now

          Don't believe the hype from those pricks at the DNC.

          First thing they need to do is FIRE EVERYONE AT THE DNC, clean house cause those bastards don't deserve another chance.

      •  Um, yeah, storm the Bastille (none)
        What could possibly go wrong after a start like that? ;-)
  •  the surest sign that Dean will lose (none)
    will be if "his side" is declaring victory ten days before the fact.

    let's stop pretending that the race for DNC chair is  some kind of equitable, democratic process, and acknowledge that like all power struggles it is a bitter, hard-fought contest rife with dirty tricks, smears, ambushes, and surprises.

    the anti-dean Repigs lite are gonna try and pull something outta their hat - hey, maybe a Billary - and they'll be ever so happy if Dean's ppl are already heading off for celebratory martinis when they do so.

    and again: see the link in my sig if you care...

  •  The "Scream" (none)
    My take on the infamous scream is that the repugs jumped on it, but more insidiously, the democractic machine did too.  The powers that be did not want Dean as the front runner.  The "scream" provided them with the ammo to sink him - whether by action or inaction.

    I think the repugs wanted Dean to win the primaries thinking it would make their job easier.  How many of us would like to go back and see if they were right?

    The scream itself was nothing, but was a damn good sound bite that the media consumed voraciously.

    •  see, the Repubs and Dems can work together... (4.00)
      they did, to bring Dean down
    •  He was already sunk (none)
      The scream just made him look looney after losing.

      And I am fan of Dean, so I don't mean this meanly.  

      But by the time he lost Iowa, it was clear to me that he was missing something.  I suspect it was just that he never expected to do so well or be so popular or collect so much money - he was running as an opposition candidate and when he became the front runner, his campaign ran out of steam (he needed to run a front runners campaign then, but couldn't.)  

      In a way, that's exactly what the Democrats need now - somebody who will get the Democrats into opposition mode, becasue it seems to me that even still the Democrats in Washington (i.e the guys you see most often on MTP and such) still don't really get that they have been losing for over 10 years.  That was the part of Deans message that was most impactfull (at least for me) - that the Party is stuck - that it is more interested in keeping its limited and diminishing power rather than give any of that power back to us - their constiuents.

      I expect Dean will be great a Chairman of the Party, as I believe he would have been an excellent President.

      When all else fails...panic

      by David in Burbank on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:34:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If the GOP wanted Dean to be the nominee... (none)
      then why did the mass media (voice of the GOP) campaign so hard against him and convince Dems (in an intentionally Orwellian way) that he was unelectable?

      Check out my lte archive at and feel free to use my ideas for your own lte's.

      by DemDachshund on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 10:34:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well, the Big Dog (none)
    is heading up the UN tsunami efforts so we might be in the clear. I dont know. I just dont want to say it yet.:).

    The last thing this country needs is two Republican parties.-Ted Kennedy

    by jj32 on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 05:46:38 AM PST

  •  Mike Madigan endorses Dean (none)
    Capitol Fax, an Illinois daily insider politcal report, is reporting today that Illinois Party Chair (and Speaker of the House) Mike Madigan is endorssing Dean. Since he is from the more conservative wing of the party in IL this appears to be a big move. If he can bring in the rest of the IL DNC members it could be the move that puts Dean over the top.
  •  what's important now (none)
    Is not to stomp on any of the other candidates. They're out, and they've endorsed Dean...seems like not only is Dean a solid mainstream choice, but that these others are good loyal Dems. I'm sure Dean can find immportant roles for all of them, yes, even Tim Roemer. Heck, we got Bayh to vote no on Condi, right? Who says there's no role for Roemer?
  •  i scream (none)
    I scream
    You scream
    We all scream
    for Howard Dean....


    will vote for food.

    by cdelia on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 06:46:40 AM PST

  •  Shame on Kos -- For Edwards (none)
    Kos, why are you taking so many opportunities to take cheap shots at John Edwards (a week or two ago you made some crack that Obama shouldn't rise quickly ala Edwards)?  So far I've found your jabs nothing but pathetic.

    If you're opposed to Edwards, why don't you "man up" and state the reasons why?

    On the facts, Kos, you may want to take a look at the Wisconsin results:

    Kerry: 40%  (hardly a majority)
    Edwards: 34% (just 6 points back and closing, if it wasn't for media hammering that Kerry had it sewed up, Edwards may have won, knocked out Kerry's "inevitability" and gone on to wins on Super Tuesday.
    Dean: 18%
    Kucinich: 3%
    Al Sharpton: 2%

    Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

    by philgoblue on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 07:14:37 AM PST

    •  Edwards (none)
      I agree that Edwards had a lot going for him that got lost in the Kerry Inevitability Show.  Most people forget how well he did in Iowa.  And he did that pretty much without a lot media hype and far less money than Kerry & Dean spent.

      I think that what Kos is pointing out about rising quickly, that is too quickly, is that Edwards went for the top job before he had ever established an identity by his political work.  I don't know that that is a slam so much as it is an observation.

  •  Ahhhh! Shut up shut up shut up! (none)

    Jeez man, don't jinx it. We all want Howard in, but it's like a no-hitter - you don't actually say anything until it's all over.


    I've never received money from the government to spout an opinion. How 'bout you?

    by nightsweat on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 08:09:03 AM PST

    •  Yeah keep fighting until the vote happens (none)
      I am just not holding my breath, because I lived through Iowa

      And the 2000 election
      and the 2002 election
      and the 2004 election

      This is getting old.  I know how powerful they are though and how they (the media-conservative political machine) can screw any good liberal prospect of power up at the last minute.

      Check out my lte archive at and feel free to use my ideas for your own lte's.

      by DemDachshund on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 10:39:37 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yeah the problem here (none)
    Is that if you are polling at 23%, and those people are trying to make a public statement by endorsing you, and there is momentum there but a decided lack of momentum among other candidates, and you are less than halfway to a majority...

    Then it stands to (inconvenent) reason that the endorsement the other people are silently making is for the guy they can all agree on who's name isn't Dean. We need to keep up the work researching candidates to be sure our voice is heard on who is and is not an acceptable alternative.

  •  What's *wrong* with Fowler? (none)
    Fowler's got real experience organizing campaigns, real street-level experience, he's coordinated national campaigns, and I don't hear him saying anything that's really distinct from Dean.  They seem about equal "issues and ideas"-wise.  Why doesn't Fowler get the edge on experience?

    I'm not convinced Dean will raise the funds either.  His campaign ran dry because they relied on $10 donations on his website.  He's got a very limited list of heavy hitters.  

    What's the argument for this guy vis-a-vis Fowler????

    •  I went to the Eastern DNC Caucus... (none)
      Rosenberg was awesome. Reminded me of Theo Epstein.

      Wellington Webb was one hell of a gentleman, and he quickly earned my total respect. Ditto for Martin Frost, although he is coming from an entirely different place than Wellington.

      Roemer and Leland were awful.

      And Fowler was probably the worst. Something about the clown suit, perpetually arching eyebrow, and nerd glasses,... well, it said poser to the max.

      I'm sorry, I just don't trust anyone who tries to use fancy rhetoric, and a stylish outfit as a means to gain credibility. Donny Boy was an extreme counterpoint to literally everyone in the room. To sum, think IMMATURITY.

      Anti-War, Anti-Joe! "If a Dem wants to be "good friends" with Sean Hanntiy, well, he deserves to be primaried..."

      by DeanFan84 on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 08:32:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dean (4.00)
    Reading the NYT this morning, the way the Republicans were crowing over the prospect of Dean as chair, I couldn't help but think of Brer Rabbit and his "please don't throw me in the briar patch" bit. We fell for it in the primaries. Well, some of us did -- not me, I protest voted for him even though he had already dropped out by then.

    Anyway, as far as the Dean can't win the South argument, I just wanted to share a little story with you. I live in Tennessee, and after the election my friend went to the local gas station where she couldn't help but goad the propietor for his Bush bumpersticker. "So, Hoot," she asked him (that really is his name). "When is mandatory church gonna start up?" He looked at her and said, "I didn't want to vote for him, I wanted to vote for Dean. Dean stands up for what he believes in. I couldn't vote for Kerry."

    I think Blue State Dems underestimate what that "stand up" quality means to Southerners. The Democratic establishment hasn't had it for years, though they are showing glimmers of it now. Dean's got it.

    •  Wish Fulfillment (none)
      Let me get this straight.  Looking at post here I see two ideas.

      1.  Republicans say they're afraid of Dean (obscure old editorial link), so, they must really be afraid of Dean.  Great, Dean would make the best Chair.

      2.  Republicans laugh at Democrats since they are seriously considering Dean as Chair, so, they must really be afraid of Dean.  Great, Dean would make the best Chair.

      Now, who is drinking the Kool-Aid?

      Everybody talks about John Edwards' energy, intellect and charisma -- Bill Clinton

      by philgoblue on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 10:17:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Dean (none)
        What are you talking about? If one person had these two conflicting opinions, you might could say, yeah they're crazy, but why is it odd that more than one person has more than one opinion?

        My point is that I think the Republicans are trying to play us, yet again. I meant it as a rebuttal to those who are saying, "but with Dean as chair, the Republicans will laugh at us!" You can't let your decision-making be guided by those kind of instincts, not if you ever want to be in the driver's seat again.

        As far as being deluded (that is what the crack about kool-aid meant, yes?) all I know is what I hear and see in the world around me, and the impression I get is that if Democrats had the courage of their convictions, there wouldn't be Republican in office, anywhere. That is the chance I think Dean has to offer, and if he gets a crack at DNC chair we will soon find out.

  •  Praise the Lord. (none)
    I'm a Kucitizen, not a Deaniac, but the man actually had the estrogen to be against the frickin' war. A man who can do that might actually save the "Democrat Party".

    The less a man knows about how sausages and laws are made, the easier it is to steal his vote and give him botulism.

    by SensibleShoes on Wed Feb 02, 2005 at 08:41:08 AM PST

    •  Yea, but he supported one of the (none)
      war resolutions early on. And it's easy to say "I would not have voted" when one doesn't actually have to vote and put your butt on the line.

      Of course that's the same rationale Bushie used back in 2000 because he himself had not the opportunity to actually cast a vote, it was easy to criticize those who did. Just trying to make a reality point here.

      •  Dean and the war (none)
        You gotta remember, when millions of us were out in the streets saying "No war," Dean was the only one who looked at us and saw voters. (Well, alright, Kucinich too but he's not the topic today).

        The other brand-name democrats, what did they see? Rabble? Suckers? Why couldn't they do the math? The Iraq war was (is) Bush's baby. If you back him and he wins, he wins because it was his idea. If you back him and he loses, he wins because now it's your fault, too. You thought it was a good idea, too.

        In many ways, Dean is not liberal enough for me, but at least he knows how to do the math.

  •  Interview with Fowler (none)
    From the Lone Star Iconoclast.

    The Dean bits for the Deaniacs:

    ICONOCLAST: You have all these ideas, but it seems like you're fighting against quite a number of powder kegs in the party, and they all seem to be saying the same thing. Not only that but the mainstream media seems to be giving Gov. Howard Dean all the attention--

    FOWLER: Dean is the sexy, well-known candidate in a field of candidate not as well known. None of the rest of us have run for president. None of the rest of us has lost a presidential campaign. None of the rest of us--

    ICONOCLAST: But do you really care about that?

    FOWLER: It doesn't bother me. I'm running for DNC chairman, and there's 447 voters. I'm not running against Howard Dean. I'm not running against Martin Frost. I'm running to change the way the national party does business and get us back to the grassroots. I've been in the grassroots. I've been on the ground working the doors or working the funds for almost 20 years. None of the other candidates can say that. They've raised money and given it to states. They've been elected in a city or a state but none of them have actually gotten dirt underneth their fingernails in the grassroots. Grassroots right now in state parties is fashionable, and if you look back at what these guys were doing five years ago, 10 years ago, 10 years ago, they weren't in the grassroots. They weren't trying to build parties. They were doing something else. They were buying paid television. They were running a national organization. They were elected to office. They weren't in the field. The national Democratic Party needs to rebuild its structure. It needs to build its state parties. That's why I'm running for DNC chairman.

  •  Why should they even care? (none)
    Seems to me that the Repugs are creating their own "scream". I may be naive about this, but wouldn't you think they would be jumping up and down with glee if Dean gets the Chairmanship? If all the crap they are spewing is true then the Dems are toast!!!

    I can't help but think that they are running scared. Maybe their worst nightmare is about to come true and they are worried that Mr. Dean will turn the Democratic Party into something they need to worry about and it is truly becoming a well oiled machine that will bring them and their far right agenda down.

  •  as effective as edwards? (none)
    I think you oversell Fowler and don't give Edwards nearly enough credit.  Remember he almost took Wisconsin and Georgia.  Also, Dean was in the race fairly late splitting the anti-Kerry vote.  Without Dean I think Edwards would have taken Wisconsin and had he done that it would have been a dogfight.  I don't think Fowler has a chance.
    I hope it isn't Fowler.  I was for Dean or Frost; I had/have my reservations about both, but both have a lot going for them.  They've both done some fighting for this party too.  Fowler is nobody with no record beyond organization man in some campaigns (he's never been front and center before) trying to get the position on money and daddy's name.
  •  Translation (none)
    The right is not scared of Dean. They are not pulling some reverse psychology on us. They really think Dean is going to be a disaster for us.

    Notice that all anti-Dean commentators share the same belief that "liberal" is the worst thing you can call someone. The center has become convinced that we must purge the left to be sucessful. It's nonsense, of course. What we need is a middle. Our center and left are well-represented, but no one is speaking for our middle.

    Had Dean been a bit more politically savvy from the beginning, he might have played that role decivisely. Nonetheless, we have to work with what we have.

    Why Dean for DNC chair versus him in some other role as a Democratic "leader"? We have very few positions of high media visibility left to us. Dean as DNC chair gets heard. It makes a symbolic point: the centrists don't get the party, they have to be part of the party. It also puts him in a power-brokering position (flow of money) to help build a coherent message and vision for Democrats.  Something between Lieberman and ANSWER that still speaks to us all, and to most Americans.

    Fighting over who was right and who was wrong is pretty pointless. The important thing is that all of us failed miserably at delivering our message. Let's work on that.

    My vision for a Democratic America: stewardship, responsibility, and world leadership. How do we get Americans to see that in our party?

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