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For the minions of the PNAC, the end is nigh. Conservatives with some residual decency have begun to turn on their neo-con brethren.

 Yesterday, while All eyes were fixed on Rome, Richard Perle and Gen Wesley Clark had a rematch in front of the same house Armed Service Committee they testified before in 2002 on the eve of the invasion.

Things went a little differently this time:

Rep. Walter B. Jones Jr. ..a conservative Republican from North Carolina.. turned his fury on Richard N. Perle

Jones, who said he has signed more than 900 condolence letters to kin of fallen soldiers, pronounced himself "incensed" with Perle.

"It is just amazing to me how we as a Congress were told we had to remove this man . . . but the reason we were given was not accurate," Jones told Perle at a House Armed Services Committee hearing.

Jones said the administration should "apologize for the misinformation that was given. To me there should be somebody who is large enough to say 'We've made a mistake.' I've not heard that yet."

But apologies apparently aren't Perle's thing:

Perle wasn't about to provide the apology Jones sought. He disavowed any responsibility for his confident prewar assertions about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction, heaping the blame instead on "appalling incompetence" at the CIA.

As if that buck passing wasn't enough, he then pulled the rarely seen triple axel fact twist and blamed Saddam Hussein's agents for goading us into an attack   Really.  I couldn't make this up:

 "There is reason to believe that we were sucked into an ill-conceived initial attack aimed at Saddam himself by double agents planted by the regime. And as we now know the estimate of Saddam's stockpile of weapons of mass destruction was substantially wrong."

There it is folks, the single most mind-blowingly asinine thing ever said in Washington.  Its a high bar, I know, but Perle cleared it.

This was apparently about when Rep. Jones' gag reflex kicked in:

Jones, nearly in tears as he held up Perle's testimony, glared at the witness. "I went to a Marine's funeral who left a wife and three children, twins he never saw, and I'll tell you, I apologize, Mr. Chairman, but I am just incensed with this statement."

There's nothing like coming face to face with the costs of war to reveal its utter folly.

In the wake of three or four Major reports blasting the intelligence that led to the War in Iraq; and the inept planning and execution of the post war period, you might think that one of its chief architects would be a little humble when facing a Congressional oversight panel.

You might think that, but then you don't know Our Man Rich, who approached this hearing as, apparently, an annoyance in his otherwise busy day.  He even bought a bit of light reading with him:

Perle's reading material -- he put on the witness table a copy of "Kitchen Confidential: Adventures in the Culinary Underbelly" -- suggested he was not expecting what was to come.

That's right, you read that correctly.  The man responsible for n 1600+ dead and  50,000+ wounded  American soldiers, 200+billion in cost overruns, and the utter destruction of civil society in Iraq,   brought a book with him in case he got bored!.  

If I even attempt to convey my feelings about that I'm going to sound like Chris Rock with Tourettes.

breathe...breathe ...Phew!

Perle needn't have had worries about boredom however as he instead ran into a buzzsaw on both sides of the aisle.  And helping run the Sawmill was none other than our hero, Gen Wesley, "I freakin' TOLD, you this would happen" Clark.

Less charitable minds might have seen Gen Clark's testimony as a bit of payback from the last time these two testified together and Mr. Perle was,- less than charitable himself, towards General Clark:

As chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board, Perle had gone before the same committee in 2002 and smugly portrayed retired Army Gen. Wesley K. Clark, who urged caution in Iraq, as "hopelessly confused" and spouting "fuzzy stuff" and "dumb clichés."

{he dismissed} Clark's argument that "time is on our side" in Iraq and that force should be used only as a "last resort."

Perle said Clark was "wildly optimistic" and called it "one of the dumber clichés, frankly, to say that force must always be a last resort." While Clark fiddled, "Saddam Hussein is busy perfecting those weapons of mass destruction that he already has."

Ahh but reality can be such a Bitch sometimes can't she?

In retrospect, Clark's forecasts proved more accurate than Perle's, and even Republicans on the committee made little effort yesterday to defend Perle or to undermine Clark.

MOST Republicans that is.  It was a little too much to expect the entire party had gone "reality based all at once.

The exception was Chairman Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.), who pressed Clark to acknowledge that the Iraq invasion should get some credit for signs of democracy in the region.

Clark however, was not only prepared but ready willing and able to return fire, and it wasn't pretty for the bad guys

We've got to do a lot less crowing about the sunrise," Clark rejoined.

When Hunter's GOP colleagues didn't join his line of questioning, he took another turn grilling Clark. The chairman likened President Bush's Middle East policies to those of President Ronald Reagan in Eastern Europe.

"Reagan never invaded Eastern Europe," Clark retorted.

In another try, Hunter said Clark was "overstating" the risk in challenging other countries in the Middle East. Clark smiled and showed his trump card -- reminding Hunter of their exchange at the 2002 hearing. "I kept saying time was on our side," Clark said. "I could never quite satisfy you."

As for who proved correct, the general said, "I'll let the record speak for itself."

Indeed. We call that in the vernacular a double atomic smack-down. (Why  wasn't this guy our Candidate again?)

 The record is in fact our most powerful weapon now.  In their spectacular arrogance, the Neo-cons made a lot of lofty absolute predictions and pronouncements; but, of course, none of them have even begun to touch reality.  Even the Republicans with consciences (unknown exactly how many of the mutant hybrids there are in captivity at the moment) are beginning to sit up and take notice.  The first batch of  Kool-aid is wearing off and they don't seem all that eager to drink another glass.

We cannot let those idiotic prophecies and arrogant words simply slip away down the memory hole.  We need to throw there words back in their face at the slightest opportunity.  

O6 needs to be the Year of "I told You So"

Originally posted to Magorn on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 12:18 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

      •  Perle needs to attend a funeral (4.00)
        hell, jones needs to haul that sorry bitch to the next funeral he attends.

        i don't think perle is going to feel anything but at least the widow & kids can beat the living fuck out of that asshole.



        •  Well, it's not a cookbook (4.00)
          It's just some chef's memoir.  But Perle is still an asshole.
        •  Chimpy.. (4.00)
          Has he EVER attended a funeral for any of the fallen?  

          He attends the Pope's funeral, but can't find any time in the day to ever attend even one of the funerals at Arlington?

          Am I still right on this?  Has he really never attended a single funeral of any of the fallen soldiers?  Have any President's in the past done such?

          •  you're right (4.00)
            he has not attended ONE single funeral.

            but he can cancel everything (including his vacation) & go suck up for catholic votes.


          •  to date no (4.00)
            the weasley little explanation they give for this shocking oversight is "he wouldn't want to unfairly make one death more important than others"  by attending one funeral and not another.  Of course that whole line of crap was shot right down when he used a grieving widow as a State of the Union  prop

            Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

            by Magorn on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:02:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The answer is NO. (4.00)
            The Commander in Chief, who has no legitimate regard for Human Life and views our troops as Cannon Fodder for his delusional imperalistic designs, has never attended the first funeral for our brave, dearly departed military forces.

            The Fucking Asshole in Chief.

            May Hell have a special place reserved for him, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rice, Frist, Delay, Hassert, Duncan ("Idiot") Hunter, and all the other similiarly malevolent, evil, murderous scum who have highjacked our nation and taken us down this dark road.

            Really, the entire topic makes me furious.

            Great diary.

          •  Chimpy may start going to funerals. (4.00)
            Now that he's felt something 'touch him' at Pope's funeral. As of now he hasn't attended any military funerals. Bush 41 got the press barred from taking pictures of the coffins at Dover during the first Gulf War.  IRRC Bill Clinton actually was in Dover when the coffins came home.

            UID lacking in atomic weight (tm)

            by cosette on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:15:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Clinton at Dover? Dems should use that constantly (4.00)
              I think I remember Clinton meeting the coffins as well - dear god, Dems should point that out on TV every chance they get!

              the contrast:  Clinton accepted personal responsibility for deaths of US servicemen, and went to honor them on their return - Bush not only doesn't go, he forbids the American people to SEE it - as if, by this sleight-of-hand, the deaths he caused  never really happened at all!

              what ever happened to that "taking personal responsibiliy" mantra the RePugs love so much?

              •  We've used. Maybe not constantly enough. (none)
                Headed for recyling: I noticed article from March, 27, 2005 Houston Chronicle...."Slain soldier's words inspire young widow: Left with four boys, she is trying to provide them with a normal life."

                4 young boys under 7 years old:
                Rolando, twins: Nathan and Angel and Jose III (born after his father's death).
                Sgt. Jose Guereca,Jr. died during his second tour in Iraq.
                25th Houston-area service member to die in Bushes' war.
                I feel pain over all these needless deaths in this war.
                Colin Powell:  I trusted you when you went to the UN.

                UID lacking in atomic weight (tm)

                by cosette on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 08:32:17 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Chimpy did start going to funerals. (none)
              Unfortunately, the first one he went to was the Pope's, and he got booed and whistled at.

              Not likely he'll be doing any more funerals anytime soon. Can you imagine if he showed up at a US soldier'ss funeral and the friends and family there booed him. He'd have to hide in the barn in Crawford for the remainder of his term.

              Defeat the sound-bite.

              by sbj on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 09:34:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  No, but he DID fly for Schiavo... (4.00)
            Chimpy never has taken the time to attend a funeral, but he DID go back to Washington to sign a bill (that he could have signed in TX) for Terri Schiavo.

            He didn't interupt his vacation in Aug 2001 when her received a pdb about bin Laden determined to attack inside the US, but he could interupt his vacation to sign a law for Schiavo.

            What is wrong with this picture?

        •  You outraged or something? (3.90)
          I can't believe how angry I am. My wife can't believe it either. I'm so goddamn angry, and every time I read another one of these tidbits about how callous these assholes are and how they're continuining to fuck up this country, I get more angry. Goddamn fascists.

          That said, KICK HIS ASS, GENERAL CLARK! Wesley Clark is a hero. That guy needs to get into the White House, even as VP, to get this country back on track. It's going to take a miracle.

        •  Hmm... reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode... (4.00)
          ...Are you sure the title wasn't "TO SERVE MAN"...?
        •  Bringing the book (none)
          It makes me think of advice I got about how to handle my dissertation defense. The word was, bring a book or a magazine to the defense that was incongruous - like People magazine or a mystery novel - pull it out of your bookbag at the beginning and lay it on the table. Even though you never refer to it, it's enough of a distraction that the dissertation committee/inquisition members will not be able to keep their eyes from shifting over to it. A subtle way to defuse the intensity. Don't know if it works because I never got my dissertation done, but it sounded good. Maybe Perle was doing the same thing.
          •  Yoink (none)
            With any luck, I'll be able to try this technique out. I've already succeeded with a variant of it in my qualifying exam--I couldn't find an appropriate pointing device (a stick would have been fine) in the room, so I ran up to the lab and grabbed a rod of titanium alloy. I'm pretty sure it was distracting, brandishing this thing around the room (bonus effect: it was heavy enough to keep my hands from shaking).

            Some will rob you with a six-gun / And some with a fountain pen. -- Woody Guthrie

            by abw on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 06:13:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Heh (none)
            If I'd done that at my defence, someone would've asked, "what the fuck are you doing with the People magazine, Fishhead?"

            "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

            by fishhead on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 11:45:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  The title, of course... (none)
          To Serve Man.

          What an arrogant prick. I suppose it could have been worse, and he could have brought a manicurist with him. Time to fail him up, eh?

        •  Cookbook (none)
          A cookbook! Get out! I didn't even know he could read.

          The greatest threat to personal freedom comes from ones own government.

          by Mark701 on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 07:51:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  If I or any of my loved ones (none)
          died as a result of the Iraq debacle, I certainly wouln't wan't this disgusting shitbird Perle showing up at the funeral to add further insult to injury.

          No fucking way!

          Defeat the sound-bite.

          by sbj on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 09:22:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Funerals (4.00)
        Going to funerals would be too good for for these neo-convicts. They should have their children forced to serve on the front lines of Iraq. Wolfie, Rummy and Pearle should be embedded in the front lines with their kids platoon, to watch them fight for survival without the proper armor or equipment. Then if that experience touched a nerve than we might be able to say that they are close to being human. Inhuman, Cowards, Liars, Undemocratic Ideologues.
        •  Not sure attending funerals would make a (4.00)
          difference for Perle. For it to make a difference, he'd  have to care which I don't think he does. While the family mourns, I can see him standing there looking at his watch as if to so "How much longer do I have to be here?" Maybe he'd yawn for good measure.

          Now maybe if his kid's life was on the line, he'd care enough to find a doctor who would give an appropriate diagnosis to keep his kid out of combat.

    •  Ok, now, let me get this straight (4.00)
      Some very evil, smart Iraqis DUPED the Bush Administration into attacking Iraq.

      I like that even better than heaping all the blame on the intelligence agencies.


      Man, you gotta love these guys.  I can't stop laughing......

      We do not rent rooms to Republicans.

      by Mary Julia on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:47:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The dog ate my homework. (4.00)
        The CIA lied to me.
        Saddam Hussein tricked me.
        Karl told me old people would love me if I "fixed" social security.
        Jeff told me he was a former Marine.

        When will it all end?

        "I love mankind; it's people I can't stand." --Linus/Peanuts

        by homogenius on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:08:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  hell yea (4.00)
        Saddam was totally all like "They think I'm a power-hungry dictator, do they?  HA! I'll show them, I'll purposely have the attack me and throw me out of power!  Then they'll see what power-hungry is truly like!"

        We got punk'd by Saddam into attacking... Saddam

        Does George Bush remember he put his hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution, and not the other way around? -- Bill Maher

        by ragnark on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:52:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Imaginative blaming (4.00)
        These folks must go to a special school to learn wildly outlandish ways of shifting blame elsewhere. The statement by Perle reminds of this recent statement by Cliff Kincaid, who asserts that it's really Sen. Harkin's fault that Martinez got caught handing out an embarrassing memo:

        "Harkin, rather than return the document to Martinez because he had been given it improperly and accidentally, leaks it to the media and his fellow Democratic Senators. Harkin demonstrated in this conduct that he was more concerned in making political points against the Republicans than in helping Schiavo stay alive. Harkin could have returned the document to Martinez, noting that it was a piece of crude work product and that he was sure it didn't reflect the views of Martinez or other Republican Senators. But that's not what Harkin did. Instead, he passed the memo on to other Democrats and the press, knowing that it would be transformed into another 'scandal' for the GOP ... the Democrats and their media allies exploited a Republican memo for partisan political purposes."

        This is sort of like the guy who accuses you of damaging his fist when you struck it with your chin.

        •  they--the repugs (4.00)
          got caught and they did not want to admit they got the next best thing is to lie about it, blame someone else for the hypocricy.

          That is their MO!  That is all they know how to do things!  They are just rotten to the core is all!

        •  Acting like an adult (4.00)
          One of the most challenging tasks of adulthood is taking responsibility for one's actions and reactions. I wonder what stage of development this means Chimpy et al are at?
      •  Chalabi? (none)
        I was under the impression that he was referring to Chalabi and his minions, and in a way, he may be right. That still gives no excuse for this "no excuses" administration to never admit an error or take responsibility for mistakes.

        Chalabi may have pushed the idea, but the idea would have gotten nowhere if members of this administration weren't so gung ho in helping him push it.

        •  not at all (4.00)
          It's completely and totally absurd to suggest -- as Perle did -- that Saddam's government ("the regime") was using double agents to push the US to invade Iraq. Just think about that for a second.

          Saddam may be an evil bastard, but after the Gulf War he had no illusions left about his strength vs the US army's strength. Suggesting that Hussein secretly wanted us to invade is pure brown stinky horseshit, and Perle knows it.

          That's why Jones was so pissed off.

          As for Chalabi -- it's generally accepted that Chalabi is an Iranian agent. Not Iraqi. Iran would have been VERY interested in provoking the US into taking out their old rival Saddam, and that's probably what happened. Iran thought a US invasion of Iraq was a great idea, and fed the US government some fake info that was close enough to what they wanted to hear, probably including all that info about how it'd be a cakewalk.

          Since it was exactly what they wanted to hear, the gullible chickenhawk neocon bastards walked right into it.

          Perle doesn't want to admit it because it's one of the most colossal foreign policy fuckups in our nation's history. Probably the A-number-one biggest. And he's responsible.

          The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. - Sir Winston Churchill

          by drewthaler on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 04:14:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are correct and I was wrong (4.00)
            I thought that I had once heard that Chalabi was an assassin for Saddam. Unfortunately, that distinction, according to some internet sources, goes to Allawi.

            Allawi is ,as we know, Chalabi's cousin, and apparently some of the Chalabi family were pro-Saddam (again, according to some internet sources that I Google'd).

            I personally think the relationship may be much more complex than some people might imagine, not that I could prove such a thing of course; but I agree with you that I was wrong to state it was probably Ahmed Chalabi himself. Thank you for correcting me.

            •  right (4.00)
              You've corrected me too. :-) Chalabi may not be an Iranian agent ... merely an Iraqi who wanted to see Saddam gone. It's kind of a tangled web and last I heard of it all it was unclear.  

              I assume that the CIA probably has a pretty good idea which is true by now, but us ordinary citizens are left with guesses and fragments of stories and people who are clearly not telling the whole truth.

              It's undeniable that Iran definitely had a vested interest in deposing Saddam, tho, and probably had agents in Saddam's government. But the dots can be connected in many ways.

              The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives. - Sir Winston Churchill

              by drewthaler on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 07:48:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  US has a few skeletons in the closet (none)
            First order of business for Preznit-elect Dean: normalize relations with Cuba. Maybe they can help untangle your medical system ;)

            (Dean, Clark, Reid... don't really matter to me. For that matter, Pelosi's lookin pretty good)

          •  According to Greg Palast, BBC report (none)
            The reason why the Neocons backed Chalabi is because Chalabi is/was in favor of breaking up and privatizing Iraq national oil companies (a neocon goal). This privatized  oil resource in turn would be used to break up the OPEC oil cartel (another neocon goal) which is the source of many Arab states wealth and power.

            See here.

        •  Chalabi is well known for being (none)
          a crook, a liar and a con man.  Maybe that's what made the admin trust him.  From what I know of Chalabi, the man never puts out unless he's getting paid for it.  Chalabi and Gannon, mercenaries for hire, no job too low, no lie too big.
      •  Yes, they were planted! (none)
        all those double agents in the Project for the New American Century, doncha know?

        And as to why Clark wasn't our nominee, he wasn't fully baked in time.

        Seriously, he started his campaign too late and had to do too much "how to act like a candidate" studying in front of too many people.

        But I have a feeling he's going to be very ready in '08, and I am looking forward to that.

        As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it? - William Marcy Tweed

        by sidnora on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 07:58:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Link to audio--Perle is real a piece of work (4.00)
    (copied from comment in earlier diary on this subject)

    Audio Link:

    Listening to this, it strikes me that Perle is living in a fantasy world. He wants to continue the neocon adventure in Syria and Iran, and claims that he never believed that Iraq oil would pay for this war, and also that he believed that we should have set up an Iraqi government-in-exile (presumably headed by Chalabi) and turned Iraq ovewr to them as soon as Baghdad fell. Much more, as well, rather astounding at times. And most of the Senators went after him pretty hard. This man has a ridiculous, totally unwarranted degree of hubris.

    Clark seems to find it unbelievable at times, especially when Perle repeatedly espouses the view its not worth talking to Iran or Syria, we should just use force.

    This is a good link, too, to a segment with Clark on Washington Journal just before he went to testify:

    (It's the second link down in the middle column) ue,DESE;

    "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." Dr. ML King, from a jail cell in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963.

    by bewert on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 12:33:18 PM PDT

  •  Full of sound and fury, (4.00)
    signifying nothing.

    The Republicans may be ready to talk the talk, but when it comes time to invade Iran they won't walk the walk.  They stick together even at the world's peril.

    •  I begin to doubt that (4.00)
      900 condolence letters is a whole damn lot, and its clearly had a sobering effect on Rep. Jones.  Now he is a s rock-ribbed safe seat conservative as you can get, his disgust was plain yesterday.  If he's not on board for the next invasion I'm having a hard time imagining who will be.

      The fatal Flaw in the Neo-cons little adventure is that they want to be an empire, and empires die if they stop expanding.   Therefore they HAVE to keep invading Iraq's neighbors if they want their little dream to succeed.

      Problem is, they are running out of excuses to initate action quickly.  They rushed us to war in Iraq, because they were so confident of overwhelming success that they never imagined a year later we'd even CARE about the reasons why.

       Now that we've gotten burned so bad on their first war they're having a very hard time selling the second.  And without it they are finished,  people's eyes will turn back to the mess they've made at home and boot them out.

      Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

      by Magorn on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 12:40:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  republicans are humans (3.87)
        as well.  the neo-cons have alienated real conservatives by killing our people, our ideals, our word & our budget.

        they won't succeed --- not just b/c dems are stronger but b/c they have angered moderate & true conservatives everywhere.

        this is good.  Add to it 70% of american & repubs who were angry about the schiavo experience, the majority (of repubs) that don't agree with the SS "reforms", & the incredible budget deficit & they've got problems.

        iran ain't happening unless they attack iran w/o telling us.

        •  I hope you're right (none)
          "iran ain't happening unless they attack iran w/o telling us."

          Tom DeLay is so corrupt...<HOW CORRUPT IS HE?>...He's so corrupt that when he takes the Oath of Office, he holds his hand OUT instead of UP!

          by mlkisler on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:23:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Attacking Iran (4.00)
          I don't believe they intend to invade iran.  We're sending two more carrior groups to the area for a total of 5 (I think it'll be 5).

          We're going to bomb them in june.  This will be to stop them from creating their oil exchange to compete with chicago.  Their oil exchange will be based on Euro's and is a very obvious and very large threat to the US hegemony controlling oil futures.

          All the business about nukes is BS.  Just another line like WMD for iraq.  Has nothing to do with why we're going to attack them.

        •  I wish I could agree with you... (none)
          But it seems like at this point in time Republicans care more about holding power than anything else. Sure there might be isolated incidents of people like Walter Jones expressing displeasure at those in charge, but when push comes to shove do you really think Walter Jones really has the guts (or the good of the country at heart) to do any lasting damage to those currently in power?

          Unfortunately, I don't.  It could change, but right now all I say is posturing from people like Walter Jones with no real guts behind it.

      •  "Empires die if they stop expanding" (4.00)
        I'd like us all to take a deep breath, then think about capitalism. Just for a few seconds. I know it's like questioning your faith, but most of us here kind of like that.

        Thank you.

        •  If you haven't (4.00)
          You might want to read John Perkin's Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.

          I just finished it. Recommended. I can't forgive Perkins, despite his polite request, and I'm still in the process of privately fessing up my contributions to the overall problem. So it means there are a lot of parts of the book that kind of grate on me (or are painful). But I still recommend it without hesitation.

          Some will rob you with a six-gun / And some with a fountain pen. -- Woody Guthrie

          by abw on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:33:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  seconded (none)
            superb book and if they rerun his appearance on cspan its well worth catching

            'Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it'. - GBS

            by stevej on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 06:36:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Didn't they give away their power to declare (none)
        war to Bush?  I can't quite remember the details, but does he need Congress to invade Iran??
      •  I'd like to thank you (none)
        for the single best read I've had all day. Not only was the information fantastic, but your commentary made me smile the whole way through.

        I think this will be the last thing I read tonight on dKos because no one will come close to the day making diary you have writen here.

        Thanks again.

        PS When Perle gets to hell he will wish that the thing shoved squarely up his ass for eternity was the size of John Holmes. Instead it will be the size of a redwood tree with razor wire wrapped around it.

      •  And he personally signed them (none)
        He made a point of that. Listening to this portion alone (it starts at 1:14:20) is well worth the time. A conservative Republican just ripping into him, and this prissy-sounding guy denying any responsibility for any of's astounding, especially if you have an awareness of all of these guys. Perle denying any involvement Wurmser and Feith? Huh--these guys have been in bed together on Iraq sense at least 1996. And Perle denies any knowledge of it.


        "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." Dr. ML King, from a jail cell in Birmingham, Alabama in 1963.

        by bewert on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 08:19:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Joe Stummer Crowing Noise (none)
    AAAAHHHOOOOOO!!! (as opposed to aaaaaah, waaaaah)

    That felt good.

    Perle needs to be castrated, except with his capacious belly he probably hasn't had a proper view "south of the border" in quite some time, so he probably wouldn't miss them.

    There is a certain providence in the fall of a sparrow

    by mrblifil on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 12:49:14 PM PDT

  •  I looked up the title when I saw the article (4.00)
    The review made it clear why the title made it into the WAPO article and why his choice of reading material was particularly offensive, given the topic at hand. Being inside the Beltway isn't enough for him- he'd rather think about roaming the City as a restaurant raconteur.
    Most diners believe that their sublime sliver of seared foie gras, topped with an ethereal buckwheat blini and a drizzle of piquant huckleberry sauce, was created by a culinary artist of the highest order, a sensitive, highly refined executive chef. The truth is more brutal. More likely, writes Anthony Bourdain in Kitchen Confidential, that elegant three-star concoction is the collaborative effort of a team of "wacked-out moral degenerates, dope fiends, refugees, a thuggish assortment of drunks, sneak thieves, sluts, and psychopaths," in all likelihood pierced or tattooed and incapable of uttering a sentence without an expletive or a foreign phrase. Such is the muscular view of the culinary trenches from one who's been groveling in them, with obvious sadomasochistic pleasure, for more than 20 years. CIA-trained Bourdain, currently the executive chef of the celebrated Les Halles, wrote two culinary mysteries before his first (and infamous) New Yorker essay launched this frank confessional about the lusty and larcenous real lives of cooks and restaurateurs. He is obscenely eloquent, unapologetically opinionated, and a damn fine storyteller--a Jack Kerouac of the kitchen. Those without the stomach for this kind of joyride should note his opening caveat: "There will be horror stories. Heavy drinking, drugs, screwing in the dry-goods area, unappetizing industry-wide practices. Talking about why you probably shouldn't order fish on a Monday, why those who favor well-done get the scrapings from the bottom of the barrel, and why seafood frittata is not a wise brunch selection.... But I'm simply not going to deceive anybody about the life as I've seen it." --Sumi Hahn

    Product Description:

    When Chef Anthony Bourdain wrote "Don't Eat Before You Read This" in The New Yorker, he spared no one's appetite, revealing what goes on behind the kitchen door. In Kitchen Confidential, he expanded that appetizer into a deliciously funny, delectable shocking banquet that lays out his 25 years of sex, drugs, and haute cuisine.

    From his first oyster in the Gironde to the kitchen of the Rainbow Room atop Rockefeller Center, from the restaurants of Tokyo to the drug dealers of the East Village, from the mobsters to the rats, Bourdain's brilliantly written, wild-but-true tales make the belly ache with laughter.

    •  Kitchen Confidential is a great read. (4.00)
      I just finished it, coincidentally. Seriously, I recommend it to all foodies.

      Anthony Bourdain is solidly liberal in a punk rock kind of way, and he had a great show on Food TV where he travleled the world sampling native cuisine.

      I have no idea what appeal this book would have on Perle.

      The CIA, btw is the Culinary Institute of America.

      In the midst of life we are in debt, etc.

      by ablington on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 12:55:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup, it's a good book. His NYer thing was good too (4.00)
        But just how bored was he expecting to be? Gee, those hearings have to be a real downer, so I guess something light must have been tempting. Still, it smacks of remarkable arrogance and disrespect to lay this one down on the hearing table for this kind of discussion. It's like taking the Howard Stern autobio to your dad's funeral. Yeah, it might cheer you up, but what's it gonna do for the rest of the church?
      •  A second recommendation (4.00)
        I love Bourdain's non-fiction (he's also written a novel I haven't read).  Kitchen Confidential is hilarious and very, very informative.

        he had a great show on Food TV where he travleled the world sampling native cuisine.

        This show is called A Cook's Tour.  Bourdain also wrote a companion book to the series with the same title.  Also hilarious and informative, unless you're a vegetarian who'll object to reading about what it's like to eat the still-beating heart of a cobra (served to him in a restaurant in Viet Nam).

        "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

        by Pesto on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:06:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've recommended it to several people (none)
          but it's a hard sell for people who are squeamish about where their food comes from already.

          Also, his restaurants are excellent! My husband and I were having dinner at the DC branch when we were there a few years ago on a visit, and the next table got taken by our(then)Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, with his wife & another couple. We introduced ourselves as constituents and thanked him for his service; God, I miss him!

          As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it? - William Marcy Tweed

          by sidnora on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 08:13:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  He'd be disgusted by Perle having his book there (none)
        I'm betting he'd be thoroughly disgusted at Perle even reading his book. He's the closest thing to a HST-style "gonzo" chef I've ever seen.

        A word after a word after a word is power. -- Margaret Atwood

        by tmo on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 07:33:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I LOVE Bourdain (none)
      He had a great show in the Emeril Network (Food TV or something).

      Also, he's a Frenchman.  Keep that in mind.

  •  one suggestion for your excellent diary (4.00)
    O6 needs to be the Year of "I told You So"

    It should be the year of "shove it up your ass".  I've got enough surplus righteous indignation to cover '08 too.

  •  Listened to the testimony (4.00)
    It is well worth turning on your media player and sitting through the 3+ hours of testimony.

    Milbank ain't kidding when she says Jones was fighting tears: you can hear it in his voice.  Richard Perle comes off as just awful, an utterly odious man who's used to gettign away with a lot of nefarious behavior.

    He should be in jail forever.

    •  Goofy Perle quote. (none)
      Perle is an utterly preposterous figure. In any other context than being associated with a powerful nation, he would be merely comical.

      I saw him on Charlie Rose a few months ago promoting a book, The End of Evil (I guess The Wrath of God was taken) and he said that we need to make the Middle East into a group of democracies because, "Democracies don't start wars." Evidently he knows something about America that I don't...

      And then 2/27/33 happened, and that changed everything.

      by Julian on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 10:29:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  General Clark (4.00)
    needs to be given a much more prominent role in speaking for the Dems.  I understood the reluctance to embrace him in the primaries, it's not like Clark had a long history as a Dem activist.  

    Since the primaries he has been a real foot soldier for the party, working hard for Kerry and now using his PAC to talk about the national security issues that Democrats are supposedly weak on.  He's proved his worth and I for one would like to see a lot more of him in the future.

    •  I Still Dream Of (4.00)
      Him running a little sooner next time...

      Ted Hitler on bloggers: They have no credibility, all they have is facts.

      by EastFallowfield on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:12:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Clark has guts, no denying it (4.00)
        I was a Deaniac, but I still remember that Clark had far and away the best answer to the "will America elect a (gasp) LIBERAL" question the press whores kept throwing at Demo candidates in 04.

        While the other candidates (including my  beloved Dr. Dean) always answered by saying, hey, I'm really not that liberal, I'm for the death penalty, or some such thing -

        Clark's answer, basically, was "hell, yes, I'm a liberal.  Being a liberal is a GOOD thing.  Social Security, Medicare, Civil Rights, Environmental Protection, NASA, Head Start, the G.I Bill - these are all programs that Americans overwhelmingly favor, and they all came from LIBERAL presidents."

        It was the best answer of all the candidates, and he's jusst gotten much, much better since then.  He's the ideal "We Told You This Would Happen" spokesman for the Dems, and they need to book him EVERYWHERE!

      •  A friend spoke with him (none)
        at a fund-raiser not long after the elections, and she came away with the impression that he is definitely planning to run in '08. I sure hope he does. Can you imagine Dean running the party and Clark running for Prez? Woohoo!

        As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it? - William Marcy Tweed

        by sidnora on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 08:17:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I always liked Clark (4.00)
      but he seemed 'not ready for prime time' in the '04 primaries. At the rate he's been working since then, he's my early pick for '08.
      •  i think he also said some bs about rank (none)
        how a general outranks a Navy LT as a swipe against Kerry - I didnt appreciate that too much (or heard it correctly)

        he did have a great speech bit about religion helping those less fortunate which is the point that the repubs seem to forget...

    •  I like (none)
      a good straight talking Democrat. Like the old Truman/manure joke. If he runs in '08, somebody's going to have to be very, very good for me not to vote for him in the primary.

      "If it once became general, wealth would confer no distinction." George Orwell

      by justme on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 05:13:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm there, tell me where to sign (none)
      I've got the checkbook out; let me know where to send the cash for Clark in '08.
  •  Double agents? (4.00)
    It's clear to me that Perle's "double agents" comment was not a reference to the war itself, but to the single, surgical attack we launched on the eve of war to try and "take out" Saddam at a place we had been told he was having a meeting.

    I've never seen a followup on this.  Obviously, we launched the attack but didn't get Saddam, for one reason or another.  But could we have been fed phony intelligence on Saddam's location?  Is this plausible in any way?

    •  Story I've heard (none)
      some of it sourced some of it not "official" ( I do live near DC after all)

      Is that Saddam WAS there that night, we just missed him by 1/2 an hour.  He was dining with his sons and a few of his high-ranking generals.  One of them was a CIA plant with a signalling device.  The Gen.  tripped the beacon and then made a hasty exit, (as he knew the planes were inbound).  Apparently, this quick exit tripped Saddam's spidey sense and he too decided to get the hell out of dodge.   Between Him and his sons there were a few dozen assination attempts over his career.   His survival insticts were very well honed.

      Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

      by Magorn on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:04:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The pre-emptive, pre-emptive strike (none)
      is perfect evidence for the theory that these generals were just bilking the oil-for-food money for all it was worth.

      They were telling Saddam about all the WMD they were weren't really developing and getting cardboard boxes filled with 100 dollar bills to do it. When Saddam would ask them about how it was going, they'd say "Great, there all ready to go, but we need more money." Yea right. This was the culture of the Iraqi military. So when the CIA came with more Franklins for them to chew on, they said "Sure, we exactly where he is!!"

      It was all one big joke with these charlaton generals raking in the cash from all direction. They weren't double agents.

      25 page views a day since yesterday The Tom Joad Society

      by TheChanMan on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:17:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I took it to mean (none)
      The Chalabi, Curveball crowd (and no telling who else they wanted to listen to then but want to repudiate now.)

      Practice absurdus interruptus - Support ePluribus Media.

      by Catte Nappe on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:34:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Re: (none)
        I can see how someone might take it as a general comment that double agents suckered us into the war (maybe that's how Rep. Jones took it), but I think it's clear from his phrasing that he was only referring to that one specific assault ("an ill-conceived initial attack aimed at Saddam himself").

        The problem with claiming you were snookered is that, even if it's true, it makes you look like a rube.  Better to take the Bush/Mel Martinez route and blame all the faulty intelligence on some low-level CIA flunky who has since resigned.

    •  Planted double agents? (4.00)
      How powerful was Sadaam, that he could get someone who distorted intelligence and would lead into folly selected as the VP of the Republicans in 2000?

      I guess he was a greater threat than any of us even suspected if he had that much power.

      "... the best of us did not return." Viktor Frankl

      by RMeister on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:40:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pearle's said this bunk before (4.00)
      I remember commenting on it a long time ago:
      Fri Jan 14th, 2005 at 22:08:29 CST
      When asked by Matthews "How could so many people in high office be wrong about there being WMDs in Iraq", Pearle doesn't blame the CIA for bad intellegnce, since they just got what Saddam had, which turned out to be incorrect. Why was it incorrect? Because, by Pearle's reasoning, Saddam hadn't gotten around to updating his intelligence with the CIA.

      Sounded stupid then, sounds stupider now.

  •  as for Kitchen Confidential (none)
    I haven't read it yet, but if it's anything like the 15 years I spent i the restaurant industry, it's probably right on and utterly appalling.
    •  Its hugely entertaining. (none)
      If you were in the biz you will like this book a lot.

      I am saddened that Bourdain's name is somehow involved in this hearing. I bet if he finds out he will laugh his ass off.

      In the midst of life we are in debt, etc.

      by ablington on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 12:59:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  re (3.50)
      that book is AMAZING!

      tony bordex is a god.

      What the hell perle was doing with it is beyond me. Maybe he's going to invade the CIA next...

      The Culinary Institue of America that is.,...

      GOB Bluth + unknown woman + high school = Steve Holt!

      by cookiesandmilk on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:26:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  clark was my candidate (3.92)
    But he didn't learn to talk the talk till the end of the campaign. He's learned it now. I saw him shortly before the election face to face with Bernie what's-his-name-who-didn't-get-to-be-homeland-tzar-poor-baby and Clark was so erudite, so intelligent, yet his answers were short and clear. He had learned how to do it by then. Bernie looked like an ass beside him. I only wish Clark had learned before he announced his candidacy.
  •  Unbefuckinglievable (4.00)
    I'm so infuriated by this that I can't even speak. They were fucking tricked into war that has left over 1000 American men and women dead, thousands more maimed, killed & maimed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and trashed the reputation of the US!!!
  •  More proof we don't have rule of law (4.00)
    In a system with consequences, Richard Perle would spend several lifetimes in federal prison. He should be publically disgraced.

    Instead he just makes money.

    •  Check this out! (4.00)
      Not sure how accurate all of this is but maybe this is why the scoop Jackson stuff got put back under lock and seal! Perhaps a little gannon type investigation is due eh?

      When Perle was working for Senator Scoop Jackson, he was investigated by the Justice Department and found to have violated US policies relating to unlawful transmission of sensitive classified US information to Israel.

      "An FBI summary of a 1970 wiretap recorded Perle discussing classified information with someone at the Israeli embassy," writes Paul Findley (They Dare To Speak Out, Chicago, Ill, Lawrence Hill Books 1989)."He came under fire in 1983 when newspapers reported he received substantial payments to represent the interests of an Israeli weapons company. Perle denied conflict of interest, insisting that, although he received payment for these services after he had assumed his position in the Defense Department, he was between government jobs when he worked for the Israeli firm."

      In other words, Richard Perle is an Israeli spy.

      Protect Life Bring The Troops Home!

      by arkdem on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 05:26:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Walter Jones (4.00)
    is a traditional small-government conservative,  a strong supporter of the troops.  He reminds me a little of Isakson in Georgia.  He's also a Christian conservative, but in the "hate the sin, love the sinner" mode.  He's criticized the President based on traditional small-government principles.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd never vote for him since I agree with none of his beliefs and he's not going to be speaking out for our side anytime soon, but he is quite friendly, amiable, and a thoroughly decent man.  I have no trouble believing that he would be in tears after Perle's testimony.

    •  Personally, (4.00)
      I'm just gratified as all get out to even find ONE Republican with a soul and a conscience.

      "I donated to ePluribus Media. Support citizen journalism!"

      by hopesprings on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 03:38:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Walter Jones, Jr (none)
      Is a real member of the Republican theocracy. He only rarely votes in a way which would make Democrats comfortable.

      It's fine to agree with his standing up to Pearle but don't let it turn into a romance. This guy is nice, gets a lot of right-wing Democratic votes, but is not the kind of politician I respect.

  •  this shit stew is unedible (4.00)
    but the portions are huge.
    how facile these "ownership society", "take responsibility for your actions", "culture of life" cretins are. after 100,000+ deaths, after mortgaging  the next couple of generations on a stupid bet, the best he can come up with is,"i was misinformed"?

    i'm an agnostic, i'd be an atheist if it weren't for mozart

    by rasbobbo on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:26:51 PM PDT

    •  Its only too bad we didn't pass (4.00)
      a Moral Bankruptcy reform bill.  If we had, Perle would be sentenced to the care and feeding of incontinent pigs for the  rest of his natural life just to put a dent in his karmic debt.

      Knowledge is power Power Corrupts Study Hard Be Evil

      by Magorn on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:33:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The book was the GOP playbook (3.88)
    and it's finally been revealed ...

    IT'S A COOKBOOK!!! Aaaaaaahhhhh!!

  •  Perle's the Personification of Bushco's (4.00)
    attitude towards everything outside his circle: "irrelevant."

    Perle thinks about the nation the way a cardinal thinks about winning the popular vote. For the same reason.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy....--ML King, "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 01:40:17 PM PDT

  •  Perle is on Bill Maher's show tonight (none)
    Real Time on HBO
  •  This is the same Perle SCUMBAG (4.00)
    That got a classified briefing on what happens if the North Korean regime collapses and then goes to Goldman SAchs less than three weeks later to brief them on how to profit from Korean Reunification.  Douchebag.  Felonious douchebag.

    ....but just make sure it's a woman. Chief Clancy Wiggams

    by calipygian on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:00:47 PM PDT

  •  Calpundit on Perle (4.00)
    Ha. I can't believe I actually found this. It's an "old" Kevin Drum (nee Calpundit) post about Richard Perle: Reality vs. Fantasy.

    Not going to try to summarize, but if you've never read the post (it's the one about Charlie Wilson's War and loudspeakers in Afghanistan... oops, I kinda summarized) and you're in the mood for a good sad chuckle at what a moron Richard Perle is, click the link and read.

    Drum ends the post with, Remember this the next time you hear Richard Perle say anything. And then give his opinions all the consideration they deserve. Kevin, if you're out there--I think of this post every time Perle speaks. It's one of my all-time favorites.

    Some will rob you with a six-gun / And some with a fountain pen. -- Woody Guthrie

    by abw on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:06:44 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for writing... (4.00)
    I always thought this general was good.  Now, I think he's great.

    Good job reporting on the testimony.

  •  That's Brilliant (4.00)
    It's still a mystery how Kerry scored higher than Clark.  Bush has shown us that political experience is more a hindrance to election than anything else.  Despite Clark's flubs, Kerry was much more wishy washy on the war, and didn't have experience to prove he knew anything about it anyway.
    •  But I think Clark had worse (none)
      Swift Boat-type issues than Kerry did.

      I think Clark is a great man and would make a fine cabinet secretary, but I think he would have had an even harder time in a general campaign.

      What I really want to know is what Eric Shinseki looks like and whether he'd run for president.

  •  Business hates Bush (none)
    I think that one thing that Democrats have going for them in 2008 is that business people in general really don't like Bush.

    Honestly, I think one good thing about the Bush administration is that, in a lot of ways, because of the Enron situation, it has been tough on business. Bush's effort to rewrite the tax code probably would smoking out a bunch of business strategies/con artists that Democrats should be jumping over themselves to clobber.

    But I think the problem is that the Bush administration wants to clobber business to weaken the business community's ability to interfere with authoritarian rule by the Republican Party.

    So, on the one hand, yes, it probably would be a good idea to rein in big business a bit. On the other hand, if you have a choice between Karl Rove ruling the United States and Bill Gates, George Soros or even the head of a corporation we love to hate, such as Wal-Mart, you'd be better off going with the corporate executive.

    •  Erm (none)
      I don't quite get the "secret agenda" aspect of it ("clobber business to weaken the business community"), but if any businessman was smart, they'd hate Bush.

      Bush has been a godsend for corrupt banks, military industries, Big Oil, etc.  But any change in the market is bound to set off ripples.  Corporate profits are sky-high across the board, but not everyone's doing well.

      Airlines are struggling.  Ford and GM, makers of gas-guzzling SUV's and trucks, are struggling.  Mutual funds got SACKED by the Enron scandal.  We are not talking small fry, here.  These are multi-billion-dollar businesses that have been directly hurt by right-wing policies.

      That said, don't expect any defections.  CEO's are a bit twisted.  The war could really hit their corporate performance, but that's never weighed together with the $40,000 they individually saved with the tax cut.  When it comes to politics, executives can be penny-wise and pound-foolish.  And why not?  Executive bonuses are no longer tied to performance, and if things get bad, there's always the golden parachute.

      Our economy could nosedive, the economy could collapse, but greedy executives will vote Republican until they die.

      "[Re: ANWR and] 'addiction to oil,' I think the nation just reached the point where we sold our wedding ring for one night's fix."
      -The Onion

      by Dragonchild on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 02:30:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bourdain's System D (4.00)
    I'm shocked to see Tony Bourdain's reputation dragged down by any association with Perle. If anything, Perle's probably looking for insight on how Bourdain's infamous System D may be applied to public policy.

    What's System D? According to Bourdain it's any corner-cutting improvisation, shortcut, or sleazy abrogation of the rules to attain one's ends (like squeezing the blood out of a rare beef filet with all your body weight to make it the medium the customer ordered).

  •  You have this all wrong. (none)
    Perle's reading material -- he put on the witness table a copy of "Kitchen Confidential: Adventures in the Culinary Underbelly" -- suggested he was not expecting what was to come.

    No, no, no. You see, he brought the cookbook because he is currently feasting on the souls of the dead in Iraq.

    "I told them on Inauguration Day. I said look into my eyes: no new enhancements." - President Johnny Gentle (Famous Crooner)

    by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 02:58:18 PM PDT

  •  I snidely threw away Wes Clark literature... (4.00)
    as a Republican in 2003.  "Wes is Clinton's guy...screw Clark!" I said to the Clark supporter.  

    For whatever it's worth I would like to apologize to General Clark, Democrats in general, and that particular Clark supporter (actually, I've already met that guy and apologized in person, but nothing beats an internet 'mea culpa').  

    You were right.  I was wrong.  I was more than wrong, I was an asshole.  And Clark is fast approaching the status of Sainthood as far as I'm concerned.

    Politics: It's all fun and games until somone dies.

    by advisorjim on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 03:05:55 PM PDT

    •  Maybe There Is Something To Claims (none)
      People like Clark can bring home people like you. Glad you're here. I just don't understand how we didn't win in 2004 with so many Bush voters changing sides; and I haven't heard anecdotal evidence of a single Gore voter going the other way.

      Were you glad when Bush was handed the Presidency following the '04 race? And did you feel any inkling the win might not be kosher? I ask because I'm curious as to how I might feel if my guy won and there were questions of illegitimacy.

      •  No, dude... (none)
        I was off the reservation by January of 2004.  Campaigned for Kerry.  So...not glad.  Not glad at all.

        In 2000 I dismissed the questions of illegitimacy, because my guy won.  It's easy!  And fun!  It's neither when you lose.

        In hindsight it's clear to me that Bush did steal the election in 2000.  Hell, it should be clear to everybody by now!  The only defense is that Gore sued over the wrong thing.  If he had won the recount, and only recounted the counties he named in the suit he still would have lost, no?  

        But the felon list, the butterfly ballot, voter intimidation...that all actually happened.  And that was cheating.

        Politics: It's all fun and games until somone dies.

        by advisorjim on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 11:41:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  glad to have you on our team! (none)
          welcome - and we can sure use your intellectual honesty and eneregy to throw the asses out in 06 and 08!  

          An interesting point about the 2000 elections (that I didn't know until I read a great Vanity Fair article last fall,) is that under Florida law, Gore COULDN'T sue for a statewide recount - you could only sue on a county-by-county basis where you could show probable cause for a hand recount.  - unless he wanted to wait and till the election was certified and THEN demand a statewide recount - which would have left us exactly in the same place, with the Supremes annointing Bush

          (I was really pissed at him, and his whole legal team, at the time for not demanding a statewide recount - didn't know until I read the article that he COULDN'T. )

          It's a great article,  in which the Supreme Court clerks spilled the beans about how Scalia worked the court to appoint Bush  - it can be found at this URL

          See you at the (electoral) barricades in 06!

    •  I'm so impressed (4.00)
      many people just won't back down and admit that kind of mistake. Kudos to you for being big enough to do so.

      I still have arguments with some left-wing types who can't accept that an ex-General can be a true liberal.

      What still makes me wild is thinking back on one of the debates where Lieberman described Clark as Republican-lite. LIEBERMAN FOR CRIPESSAKES!!! And I think only Sharpton went to Clark's defence.

  •  Wasnt Perle the guy (none)
    who said during a debate with Howard Dean, that saying that the invasion was wrong was like saying it was wrong to buy fire insurance on your house if it doesnt burn down. As stupid as that quote was, I agree, the one from the HASC testimony is the worst.

    Check out an IMPORTANT 2005 Race: Tim Kaine for VA Governor

    by jj32 on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 03:31:52 PM PDT

  •  Clark/Schweitzer 08 (4.00)
    'nuff said.

    "This White House doesn't even know where the buck is." - Wes Clark

    by PeterSD on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 03:38:03 PM PDT

  •  Wes Clark (4.00)

    Gen. Clark was my first choice last year.  Brilliant, patriotic, and tough.  And Southern.

    I thought I sensed a little naivete in him about some things, and certainly one could see around the edges the effects of having been cloistered in the Army for so many years -- although, let's not kid ourselves, there's a ton of sharp elbows once you get to colonel.

    I'm suprised that the GOP Congressman who brandished the photo of the dead Marine with the three kids wasn't arrested on the spot for "terra."  I mean, we're not supposed to see photos of dead people, are we?  Are Americans actually getting killed and wounded in Iraq??  I didn't think so.  And if there were any such, why I'd think we'd want to Repatriate the Remains under tight security, in the dead of night, and without camerapersons skulking about, wouldn't you?

    If I had State Power, tomorrow evening's entertainment would involve a wrestling match, on natinal TV, to take place in a 3-foot deep pile of excrement, between Richard Perle and Tom Delay, definitely two of the most corrupt, dishonest, arrogant, and evil scumbags ever to infest our shores.  Henry Kissinger could be the referee.

    "If Jesus returns, Karl Rove will kill him." (Harvey Wasserman)

    by proudtinfoilhat on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 03:38:13 PM PDT

  •  Richard Perle Admits War Was Illegal (4.00)
    From a November, 2003 article. :

    International lawyers and anti-war campaigners reacted with astonishment yesterday after the influential Pentagon hawk Richard Perle conceded that the invasion of Iraq had been illegal.

    In a startling break with the official White House and Downing Street lines, Mr Perle told an audience in London: "I think in this case international law stood in the way of doing the right thing."

    President George Bush has consistently argued that the war was legal either because of existing UN security council resolutions on Iraq - also the British government's publicly stated view - or as an act of self-defence permitted by international law.

    But Mr Perle, a key member of the defence policy board, which advises the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, said that "international law ... would have required us to leave Saddam Hussein alone", and this would have been morally unacceptable.

    French intransigence, he added, meant there had been "no practical mechanism consistent with the rules of the UN for dealing with Saddam Hussein".

    "It is a common delusion that you make things better by talking about them." - Dame Rose Macaulay

    by Zackpunk on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 04:04:04 PM PDT

  •  Duncan Hunter (none)
    Is he from San Diego.  If so I think I was in his district when he first ran for Congress.  He sent around a mailing printed to look like it was from the phone company saying that phone bills would go up if his opponent was elected.  He's a big fat guy, right?
    •  YEP (none)
      a big fat jerk who talks all pro defense...Camp Pendalton is in his district. You would think he might be getting tired from signing condolences to dead soldiers families, unless...oh never mind, answered my own question.
      •  You're thinking of his evil twin (none)
        Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, or as I like to call hime "Dork" Cunningham.

        Thank goodness I'm in Susan Davis' district! Alas, the rest of my family is not so fortunate.

        "What in the wide, wide world of sports is a-goin' on here?" -- Slim Pickens in "Blazing Saddles"

        by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 11:36:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Other "I" Word -- Israel (4.00)
    The other thing that was significant about the hearing was the fact that Clark broke the biggest taboo of all -- talking about the real reason for the war -- you can't talk about Iraq (or the coming war with Iran) without talking about Israel:

    [1:37:53] If we believe what the President said, that the most pressing problem of our time is to keep the worst people from getting the worst weapons, then we're not doing that, we're operating off a different agenda. We're working to make the Middle East safe for Israel and for democracy, but we're not focusing on the national security problem the President laid out in 2002.

    Can you believe Clark said that?  For a guy who is thinking about running for president in 2008, that took some balls.  Meanwhile, the other presumed frontrunner, Hillary Clinton, is busy kissing up to AIPAC.

    Rep. Jones also mentioned this -- the Clean Break paper from 1996, Perle's meeting with Netanyahu, David Wurmser's Policy Counterterrorism Evaluation Group (which made up the stuff about the al Qaeda-Saddam link).

    •  He knows the PNAC and calls them out (4.00)
      I think it's great that reference to keeping the Middle east safe for Democracy and Israel too. He's knows the PNAC plans came from the Netanyahu connection and isn't afraid to say it.  And the beautiful thing is Clark's father was Jewish, so even though they'll try to paint him anti-semitic, he's on pretty good ground to fight that charge.

      My favourite bits from the WaPo article are:

      The two belligerents then went after each other, taking the hearing out of the control of the lawmakers. Perle wondered "why in the world" Clark would talk to Syria. Clark said Perle should learn to "eat the elephant one bite at a time." "What are you talking about?" Perle demanded.


      Finally, Rep. Victor F. Snyder (D-Ark.) tried to regain the floor. "It is illegal to fight dogs in Arkansas," he said. "I'm not going to get in the middle."

      Oh god I hope the Dems support Clark next time. It's not just that I trust him to know what is right -- I trust him to stand up and fight for it. And there's the difference.

      I can't believe some Dems painted him as pro-Iraq war. So did much of the media, but then I've come to expect no better from them.

    •  Anybody considering an (4.00)
      honorable run for the presidency in the near future must have the courage to broach the subject of America's "special relationship" with Israel.

      That's not to say that the alliance can't be held, but it absolutely must be re-evaluated, for the good of this nation. The same goes for some of all of our alliances, particularly the new ones created to enable our dishonor abroad.

      On those days when I'm feeling particularly irritable, I think about writing a diary inviting people to sit down and put all of our alliances into columnar form, Pro & Con.

      My brother, the most pragmatic man I know, does this with everything from employment to friendships. The goal is to find oneself in situations where the pros and cons hover around the 50% benefit to 50% burden for each participant. It sounds a little cold, but whereas I can count my loyal old grade school chums without the benefit of any fingers at all, my brother maintains strong friendships that last many decades. If he deems that the relationship is continually lopsided to leave him bearing the greater burden, he stops wasting his time and cuts the relationship loose.

      Again, it may not be the kind of thing a lot of people would do in their own private lives (although, seeing him surrounded by so many deeply loyal friends lends a lot of credence to the formula). This formulaic approach, however, is ideally suited for statehood alliances. That is, if we mean to guide America well into the future with benefit of productive and inspiring alliances at this nation's side.

    •  Good heavens!!! (4.00)
      You can't really be serious!!!  AIPAC as a front organization for the Israeli Mossad???  AIPAC involved in espionage operations that put Israel's interests before America's interests???

      I'll bet you're agains DEMOCRACY, too, just because the Center for the Defense of the Democracies wrote that Robert Novak's outing of Valerie Plame (Ambassador Joe Wilson's CIA-operative wife) was really nothing new and that her undercover identity was "common knowledge" around Washington (even though Wilson's own brother didn't know.)


      (Editor's Note: This ad-hominem personal attack upon you is authorized and required under Bush Administration talking points adopted in the wake of 9/11.  The Bush Administration has unilaterally decreed that the new dictionary definition of the term "anti-semite" is anyone who criticizes Sharon or Likud; or anyone who even remotely hints at the possibility that the Mossad may have espionage operations in the United States pursuing Israeli national security interests here. You may not object to this ad hominem personal attack. You are required to be notified that if you continue with these anti-semitic slurs, you'll be hounded ad nauseum and be forced to sign nominating petitions on behalf of Pat Buchanan if he ever decides to run for president again, thereby affirming your status as an anti-semite.)

      "The beginning of thought is in disagreement -- not only with others but also with ourselves." - Eric Hoffer

      by Thinking Republican on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 10:00:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Two thumbs up (none)
    Loved the "triple axle fact twist". And "Chris Rock with Tourette's".

    Looking for dKos fun in Boston?

    by AlanF on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 05:55:17 PM PDT

  •  If this isn't stupider... (4.00)'s at least as stupid.  During the press conference in the 80s, Saint Ronnie was asked about the atrocities being committed by the Contras -- with our support, of course.  In his reply, Reagan said the Sandinistas were dressing up as Contras and committing atrocities to make the Contras look bad.

    Good times.  Good times...

    "...your grasp has exceded your reach/ And you put all your faith in a figure of speech..." -- Warren Zevon

    by Roddy McCorley on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 06:06:23 PM PDT

  •  Jaw just pinged my Lugz on the way to the floor (4.00)
    "There is reason to believe that we were sucked into an ill-conceived initial attack aimed at Saddam himself by double agents planted by the regime. And as we now know the estimate of Saddam's stockpile of weapons of mass destruction was substantially wrong."




    I can't even form a sentence to reply to that.


    And this fuck-stick was in the inner circle crafting defense policy?


    That HAS to be made up... he could NOT have said that.


    Mitch Gore

    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

    by Lestatdelc on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 06:11:41 PM PDT

    •  That's the beauty of it (4.00)
      as far as they're concerned anyway.

      Their reasoning is so audacious, so outlandish and absurd that it quite literally halts debate. While sane men try to conceive of the audacity that would dare to use it, they're gaining more and more ground.

      I remember reading something Josh Marshall wrote a while back. Essentially, he was saying, journalists won't probe the blatantly obvious - no matter how insidious its potential.

      Things that are blatantly crazy carry a kind of taint. The guy that puts it out there gets the paradoxical reward of leaving others flabbergasted. The guy that tries to pin crazy reasoning down gets tainted by the craziness of it.

      I guess the thinking goes that, in spite of the fact that others heard the audaciousness, and in spite of the fact that they are dumbfounded by it, they want so badly to believe that nobody would be so unfettered by the scruples that basically hold our society together that they transfer their anxiety about the transgression onto the guy trying to make sense of it instead.

  •  President Wesley Clark (4.00)
    It has an...appropriate ring to it.

    The ring of truth, I think. :)

    Defend your freedom, one threatened judge at a time.

    by cskendrick on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 06:21:13 PM PDT

  •  Idiot Perle (4.00)
    When P.T. Barnum said "there's a sucker born every minute", he probably never dreamed that one day the White House would be full of them.  A bunch of heartless, bloodsucking idiots I tell you.
  •  "rarely seen triple axel fact twist" (none)
    Just love this image!  Nice writing!!

    Occurs to me though, it might not be so "rarely seen" as one might think in the Bush-Reign-of-Terror (B-RoT) administration.  These are guys are true world-class champions of hypocrisy.

    Capitalism has become a cancer on this planet.

    by super simian on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 06:54:09 PM PDT

  •  All that was driving and has been (4.00)
    driving the neo-con agenda from day one is greed.  Pure and simple.  Greed for power, greed for money.

    That's it.  Which is why it would have began falling apart.  They took no care in the planning, no care during the early days when their agenda was being conceived.

    Greed completely fogged whatever better judgements these buffoons had.  Greed was used as a barrier to whatever doubts of their plan they had.  Greed hindered any of them to look into the future and plan for the "what ifs" that may occur at any turn.  

    Greed hinders all of that and makes people do really stupid, idiotic and uncaring things.  

    So, it doesn't surprise me that the neo-con agenda, the PNAC, would begin to fall apart at the seams.  I completely welcome the crumbling, too.  Crumble away.  To the point of wee, itty bitty, crumbs where it all will be blown away by just a whisp of air.  To be forgotten.  Forever.

    I'm tired of their insane/obscene greed for power and wealth.  

    Try not to become a man of success but rather try to become a man of value. - Albert Einstein

    by smugbug on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 07:13:23 PM PDT

    •  consummation devoutly to be wished (4.00)
      I hope this happens as you say, and the after effects are little. And here's an even more hopeful hope--that somehow, seeing these qualities presented in this extreme, unadulterated form, in this unfathomable caricature as we have, that we will experience some kind of imprint, some innoculating effect so we'll be immune in the future from these qualities that have taken such a deep deep root in our collective psyche.

      I know it's a lot to ask but what if we (are lucky enough to) retreat from this place of insanity from this dark moldering time  and somehow it helps us to never ever go near it again.

      Wouldn't that be nice?

      •  I'll drink to that. (none)
        That's for damn sure.

        It's the hoping for something like that to come about.  It's the undying optimism I have in the positive/upbeat/goodness of human nature that will finally get as tired as I am in all this ugliness and begin to fight it and then announce, "never again!!!!"

        Afterall, all this ugliness only breeds more ugliness; nothing ever productive can ever come about.  It's time we all begin forward movement.  To climb out of this hole and never jump into it again - as you said.

        And all this hopefulness that I have is what is saving me from the constant, everyday scream of "AAAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!"

        Try not to become a man of success but rather try to become a man of value. - Albert Einstein

        by smugbug on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 10:34:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  When the history of this admin is traced (none)
        surely there will be a special place for Limbaugh first, then Hannity and O'Reilly, just as we hold responsibility for the nazi death camps on all that went on in the 1930s.

        Limbaugh was the first one to say, over and over, that you should hold onto your own money, evil liberals just want to spend it, the govt doesn't need it for welfare queens and fema-nazis, or to feed the poor or unfortunate.

        He was the first to make selfishness and greed an acceptable Christian quality.

  •  I disagree... (4.00)
    '05 is the year of "I told you so."

    '06 has to be the year of "Step aside sonny and let the responsible and competent people take over and clean up your mess for you... again."

    "We have the power. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we've decided to use it." Posted by Jeremey*in*MS at February 3, 2005 01:59 PM

    by Andrew C White on Fri Apr 08, 2005 at 08:36:39 PM PDT

  •  stupidest quote of the year (none)
    You know, thats one tuff catagory?
    But, it' up in the top 5, thats for sure. These assholes are all the way too much
  •  oh Duncan... (none)
    MOST Republicans that is.  It was a little too much to expect the entire party had gone "reality based all at once.

    The exception was Chairman Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.), who pressed Clark to acknowledge that the Iraq invasion should get some credit for signs of democracy in the region."

    Yeah, that's my congressman. I went to boyscouts with his son. Sometimes he would come by and speak to our troop, making really bigoted comments about gays. And he had a bumper sticker that read "Acid, Aides, Abortion - don't liberals just KILL you?"

    We've been trying to take him out for years. Unfortunately, we can't get any high profile candidates to run against him.  

  •  Accountability (none)
    As history teaches us, certain type of folks often end up in unmarked graves somewhere in a deserted field or against a wall facing a summary firing squad. That's called accountability.
  •  Perle was at it again (none)
    on Bill Maher's show last night. (Please Bill, we get enough of the consumate liars on all the other cable channels.)
    The government is full of people like Perle though he is among the worst of the worst.
    Is America finally getting a belly full?
  •  Walter Jones Has a Safe House Seat. (none)
    On the other hand, he might be interested in running for Elizabeth Dole's Senate seat, if she is removed from the Senate by some such means as appointment as the new Supreme Court Chief Justice.
  •  Great Diary (none)
    I would correct this however:

    The man responsible for n 1600+ dead and  50,000+ wounded  American soldiers, 200+billion in cost overruns, and the utter destruction of civil society in Iraq...

    Mr. Perle is only partly responsible. There is plenty of blame for ALL those responible to share.

  •  And NEVER let the Neo-Con Mafia... (none)
    ...LIVE IT DOWN!!! EVER!!!

    As they jump for the lifeboats at the World Bank and the UN, EVERY American should DEMAND that they continue to be held accountable for THEIR mistake.  Pat Buchanan, the conservative commentator who opposed the war, endorsed George W. Bush ONLY because he wanted to see the neo-cons "twist in the wind" as their quagmire enveloped them and let them twist in the wind.  But even that (the only good element of what is otherwise a disaster) will not happen now.

    Odd, too, Richard Perle was speaking of Iraqi double agents in his triple sumersault of truth. Talk about the kettle calling the pot...  ANYONE who has followed Richard Perle's career suspects strongly that Perle is a Mossad asset, and anyone who doesn't is probably deluding themself.


    "The beginning of thought is in disagreement -- not only with others but also with ourselves." - Eric Hoffer

    by Thinking Republican on Sat Apr 09, 2005 at 09:31:29 AM PDT

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