Skip to main content

And now for something completely different from the depressing news. The logic of the female (gasp!) ORGASM. Ahem.  

The New York Times

May 17, 2005
A Critic Takes On the Logic of Female Orgasm
By DINITIA SMITH

Evolutionary scientists have never had difficulty explaining the male orgasm, closely tied as it is to reproduction.

But the Darwinian logic behind the female orgasm has remained elusive. Women can have sexual intercourse and even become pregnant - doing their part for the perpetuation of the species - without experiencing orgasm. So what is its evolutionary purpose?

More below the (labial) fold.

Trying to figure out the evolutionary purpose of the female orgasm is a worthy science project, I think. In fact, I've done my share to try to contribute to this research, and here's a few things I've come up with.

1. As a friend of mine says, "The female capacity for multiple orgasm is nature's attempt to make it up to us for labor and delivery."

Let's face it. Labor and delivery, short of torture, is the most painful thing a human being can endure. (I know you guys think kidney stones are bad, but try passing an 8 pound stone.)

I don't want to spoil the rest of the NYT article for you, which is a doozy, with a bunch of scientists arguing over whether the female orgasm is an evolutionary trait, or whether it's vestigial--like men's nipples--and serves no other purpose than "fun."

Hah!

Male orgasms are necessary for pregnancy. But female orgasms, which are not necessary for pregnancy (ask James Dobson's wife) seem to serve no evolutionary purpose.

As neurologist Alice Flaherty notes in The Midnight Disease:

The right temporal lobe does seem to be critical for orgasm, at least in women...Despite the literary prominence of the male orgasm....its brain source has been harder to pin down than that of the female orgasm. One case study points to an evolutionarily more, well, primitive location that the temporal cortex, in the hypothalmus.

Male orgasm seems to originate in the reptilian part of the brain; women's in the creative part. Hmmmm.

So, here are my reasons why women get to have orgasms, other than making it up to us for childbirth:

  1. Nothing like a good round of multi-orgasmic sex for stimulating creativity. I get some of my best writing done in that after-sex haze. Men, of course, pass out and go to sleep, thus losing those hours of productivity.

  2. Female multiple orgasms remind us that our bodies are amazing, can be intense sources of pleasure, and it doesn't matter whether we can fit into that size 2 dress.

  3. Female orgasm is a political act; given how much space is devoted in western philosophy debating the sexuality of women, it's apparent that our capacity for pleasure scares the shit out of a lot of people.

  4. Female orgasm is metaphorical for the cyclic nature of life. Whereas male orgasm is a trajectory with an end, female orgasm is both an apex of pleasure and the building up toward another peak. Perhaps female experiences of sexuality offer an alternative view of the universe--although I'm loathe to engage in essentialist debate.

  5. 10-20 percent of women never experience orgasm, which I consider a tragedy. My hope for these women is that life has supplied them with equally more satisfying routes to pleasure.

So claim your orgasm today! 'Cause it'll piss off you know who.
Let the discussion begin.
UPDATE: I'm not making this up. Stegosaurs' Spikes Just for Looks Scientists Say Spikes of this discussion?

Originally posted to lorraine on Tue May 17, 2005 at 09:59 AM PDT.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  The clitoris: (4.00)
    The only existing human body part whose SOLE FUNCTION is pleasure.

    Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

    by Maryscott OConnor on Tue May 17, 2005 at 09:57:45 AM PDT

    •  The pinky toe is close (none)
      no real use except for sucking on
      •  Balance. (none)
        Sure, we could adapt without it... but I NEEDS my pinkie toe for balance

        Rage, rage, against the lying of the Right.

        by Maryscott OConnor on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:05:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You could lose the pinky toe (none)
          and not lose a step.

          What's with the five fingers five toes symmetry btw?  Is it intelligent design?  And did the intelligent designer succumb to the hobgoblin of little minds?

          •  toes toes toes (none)
            First, if you've ever broken your pinky toe, you would know that it's impossible to even WALK without it.  One of the most painful injuries imaginable, and walking not on that toe is incredibly awkward and hurts your knees.

            Second:

            No, it's these master body plan genes that are tough to make asymmetrical.  HOX genes are the main ones, that basically do 50 things in a row turned on in different orders during the development of the embryo --> fetus.  We've had these master body plans for 500 million years, aeons before even the first dinosaur.  It's the genes that make the rough sketches, and everything else pretty much fills in the gaps. So imagine these master development genes getting turned on to make arms and legs, then again with a different script to read to make the fingers and toes, and since they're reading the same script for each foot it's rather tough to make them different from each other consistently--well, tough to do so without making your leg grow out of your nose in the process.  Sure there are people with six  fingers and toes, but that's almost always symmetrical as well, DESPITE the Princess Bride.

          •  Yes, but you'd be wobbly (none)
            I have 9.5 toes, and I don't exactly limp, but I wobble.  And I didn't when I had 10.

            "Republicans are poor losers and worse winners." - My grandmother, sometime in the early 1960s

            by escapee on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:41:05 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Okay they have two functions. (none)
        Must investigate further...

        Socially libertarian, Fiscally conservative, 100% Democrat. Cheney unity!

        by No One No Where on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:10:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Damn! (4.00)
      All I got was two pinky toes whose SOLE FUNCTION is to remind me I can't see in the dark.

      Socially libertarian, Fiscally conservative, 100% Democrat. Cheney unity!

      by No One No Where on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:06:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the strangest part of the article (4.00)
      was the whole discussion of "unassisted" orgasm--that is, orgasm without stimulation of the clitoris during intercourse. Did these guys NOT study anatomy?
    •  Great Diary!!! (4.00)
      Not that I want to spoil the party, but female orgasm does have a reproductive purpose, it seems.  

      The female orgasm works to essentially push semen into the uterus or to make the uterus more accessable to semen.   The study I read pointed out that women who had orgasm BEFORE thier men did, were much more likely to become pregnant than those who orgasmed afterwords.  Why BEFORE I dont know.  

      If I can find the source, I will post it.

      Another study pointed out that women were more likely to be impregnated by a lover than by thier husband.  The reason cited was that having a new lover is more mentally and physically exciting than the same old Joe Husband whose been around for years and so orgasm was much more likely to occur with the lover than the husband - and thus  the pregnancy.

      Hmmmmm....I'd better ask my wife about that one....

      Regardless, count me in on the side that says the more orgasms out there the better!

      "People cannot stand too much reality." - Carl Jung

      by environmentalist on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:30:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Fun with Dick and George (4.00)
      I wish this was mine but I heard it on The View this morning:

      Which do you think they (presumably Bush et al) will find first, the clitoris or WMD?

      I'd surmise from that Stepford expression on Laura's face that she's been repressing the fact that George hasn't found it yet.  Let's not even begin to guess why Lynn Cheney wrote about lesbians in love.

      ..."no, but I have a sticky Warhead in my pocket."

      by getmeoutofdixie on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:43:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's a gift from God, like beer :) (4.00)

    ...Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things....

    by PhillyGal on Tue May 17, 2005 at 09:58:09 AM PDT

    •  Speaking of beer (none)
      CNN is reporting that kudzu increases the effect of alcohol:
      [Researchers] set up a makeshift "apartment" in a laboratory, complete with a television, reclining chair and a refrigerator stocked with beer.

      Findings show that subjects who took kudzu drank an average of 1.8 beers per session, compared with the 3.5 beers consumed by those who took a placebo.

      Lukas was not certain why but speculated that kudzu increases blood alcohol levels and speeds up its effects. More simply put, the subjects needed fewer beers to feel drunk.

      With the price of drinks in DC, I want to know where I can get some of this.

      I know this is off-topic - sorry, Lorraine.

      •  What's kudzu? the G-Spot of beers? lol (none)

        ...Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things....

        by PhillyGal on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:05:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Kudzu (4.00)
          Is this gawd awful vine imported from China to the South to help stop erosion.  Little did they know at the time that this stuff grows at a rate of up to A FOOT in 24 hours and quite litterally cannot be killed.  Oh, and it chokes trees to death.

          I grew up in Memphis and saw my mom try for years.  She poured BLEACH on the stuff and it came back for more.  

          So... at least there will be plenty to go with your beer!

          "Revolutionary change does not come as one cataclysmic moment...but as an endless succession of surprises, moving zigzag toward a more decent society."

          by saint on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:08:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Kudzu (4.00)
        With the price of drinks in DC, I want to know where I can get some of this.

        Simple, MasonLee.  

        Drive into any state in the old Confederacy.  Find an empty lot.  Eat the first plant you see.  There's about an 85% chance it'll be kudzu.

        Seriously, the presence of kudzu (like sweet tea, grits, and hushpuppies) is one of the best ways to tell you're in the South .   Along with starlings, Dutch elm disease, fire ants, and Straussians, kudzu is also one of our country's most indestructable exotic pests.

        "Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups." -- John Kenneth Galbraith

        by GreenSooner on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:16:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  when interacted in a social setting (none)
      can lead to an orgasm......
  •  Speaking as a scientist... (4.00)
    I think it's foolish to try and attribute every feature of an organism to some kind of evolutionary logic.  Sometimes things features happen in the history of a species and don't get dislodged by other features.  Not every feature we have has to be explainable by some kind of "necessary adaptation."
    •  exactly, what is the function of Music? (none)
      That too is a gift from God?

      ...get rid of that DoD "Total Information Awareness" program that's right out of George Orwell's 1984.... AL GORE, 2003

      by TeresaInPa on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:07:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  exactly (4.00)
      This is a strange/overly obvious news item. Human embryos are female by default unless exposed to the correct hormones to masculinze them. There's nothing obviously mysterious about the existence of female physiological orgasmic capability because males and females didn't evolve independent of each other. We're the same species!

      God created Eve, and she had no one to hang out with on Saturday night and felt sorry for herself. So God took one of her ribs and made Adam, and he was a doofus but Eve loved him anyway. They lived happily ever after. The End.

    •  speaking as an informed non-scientist ... (none)
      I think it's foolish to try and attribute every feature of an organism to some kind of evolutionary logic.  Sometimes things features happen in the history of a species and don't get dislodged by other features.  Not every feature we have has to be explainable by some kind of "necessary adaptation.

      Speaking as an informed non-scientist, thank you.  I get so incredibly tired of pseudo-scientific Just So Stories.  Yes, evolution is a powerful force.  But, as with many powerful forces, sometimes there are side effects.  Things that seem terribly important to us may not be all that relevant to the process of evolution.

      Proud member of the reality-based minority

      by Bearpaw on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:03:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If you're interested (none)
        a good book on why it's not so foolish is The Blind Watchmaker. by Richard Dawkins.  It's a fascinating read and he lays out the argument that an adaptation doesn't necessarily have to make sense, it just needs to convey an advantage (see long tailed birds).  Great book.  

        BTW, the long tailed bird (insert Brit joke here) example is about coevolution (ie. ladybirds preferring long tailed mates, causing longer tails, causing preferences for even longer, etc.).  The argument that we have "them" because "they're" fun seems certainly plausible if "they" cause you to do "it" more often...

        There, I didn't use the word orgasm even once <uh uh uh oops... sorry>.  ;-)

        Socially libertarian, Fiscally conservative, 100% Democrat. Cheney unity!

        by No One No Where on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:21:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've read it, and ... (none)
          It's a fascinating read and he lays out the argument that an adaptation doesn't necessarily have to make sense, it just needs to convey an advantage ...

          See, this is a common mistake.  It doesn't need to convey an advantage.  It only needs to not convey a big enough disadvantage to get weeded out.  The distinction seems subtle, but it's important.

          For instance, one of the things that most people don't get is that because of the way genetics works, some things come as sort of a package deal.  An aspect may be an evolutionary disadvantage, but be genetically tied to a different aspect that has an advantage that in the long run outways the disadvantage.  (Oversimplification, but good enough for the point, I think.)

          Proud member of the reality-based minority

          by Bearpaw on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:39:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I understand and don't think it's a misconception (none)
            Perhaps I misstated the argument.  

            The author's point throughout the book was that the advantage wasn't always a first order effect, but on balance an advantage was necessary over the long run for an adaptation to survive.  

            We could descend into a holy war over whether it's an advantage or just not a big enough disadvantage, but supper's on so I'll yield the point.  Well played sir or maam as the case may be.  :-)  To all, read the book.  It's good.

            Socially libertarian, Fiscally conservative, 100% Democrat. Cheney unity!

            by No One No Where on Tue May 17, 2005 at 03:03:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  No kidding. (none)
      The "everything must have been adaptive, and we can figure out why!" crew is, IMO, not a whole lot better than the intelligent design folks.

      Tell that to my lower back pain (a very common human problem resulting from our "design").

      If I were forced to make a biological guess, I'd say simply that our species has a vested interest in making sure we like to have sex -- making this "why would women like it?" thing of theirs yet another weird males-control-reproduction based argument. People take their biases, look at nature through them, and then use that biased look to... reinforce their bias. Constantly amazing to me.

      My girlfriend has started running in fear when I read pop science, especially of the gender-difference variety. Don't blame her.

  •  Very simple (4.00)
    Orgasms both male and female are necessary to the thriving human race because without the promise of it who'd bother?

    Unlike every other animal species, we can think our way out of anything unless we can come up with an ironclad selfish reason to do it.  The orgasm is the only reason any of us are here.

    •  this is the crux (4.00)
      I realize this isn't a serious scientific discussion, but the "evolutionary" reason for the female orgasam is obvious: Without it (or at least without the elusive promise of it), women would be running for the hills everytime a man "ripe with the rut" came a callin'. Hence, the bearers of children need a modicum of incentive to participate in what will otherwise lead to a pretty hard 9 months, and beyond.
      --Just one rutter's opinion.

      If you aren't outraged, you're not paying attention.

      by bigskiphazzy on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:16:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  funny how you're assuming (4.00)
        That it's always the male idea to initiate sex. Given how pleasurable sex can be for women, it makes  sense to me that we'd be the sexual aggressors.
      •  orgasam smorgasam (4.00)
        Gave you a four just for the cool typo.  

        BTW, Do non-primates experience orgasms?  I've read that feline reproduction is kinda nasty what with those spiney grapplers the males have.  (and no I'm not a certain Senator from Pa.)

        Socially libertarian, Fiscally conservative, 100% Democrat. Cheney unity!

        by No One No Where on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:26:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  NOT the crux (none)
        I realize this isn't a serious scientific discussion, but the "evolutionary" reason for the female orgasam is obvious: Without it (or at least without the elusive promise of it), women would be running for the hills everytime a man "ripe with the rut" came a callin'.

        And (some) men would be running them down and raping them.

        There are many species for which sex -- as far as we can tell -- is either physically uncomfortable or just not pleasurable, yet they've somehow managed not to die out.  We got lucky that it can be fun for us, that's all.

        There have been many cultures in history -- including, sadly, parts of our own -- in which sex is not supposed to be pleasurable for women, isn't expected to be, and generally isn't.  They don't die out either.

        Your "obvious" reason doesn't make sense when the facts are considered.

        Proud member of the reality-based minority

        by Bearpaw on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:14:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The power of women... (none)
      If women didn't experience it every once in a while or if there wasn't hope of reaching for the stars at least once in a blue moon, they would abandon the whole activity. And then poof! There goes humanity. Extinct!

      "I have never been able to conceive how any rational being could propose happiness to himself from the exercise of power over others." Thomas Jeffeson

      by Sunqueen212 on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:28:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "The Logic of Swedish Smorgasbord" (none)
         Just a Scandinavio-multicultural alternative, that's all.
  •  Recommended (4.00)
    Just to give the evangelical trolls some thoughts to repent.

    Socially libertarian, Fiscally conservative, 100% Democrat. Cheney unity!

    by No One No Where on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:02:24 AM PDT

  •  Plenty of evolutionary value (4.00)
    Providing orgasm to the female gives less attractive males the opportunity to procreate, therefore increasing the gene pool. More pleasure from the partner, more frequency of attempts at copulation. I'm surprised this possibility didn't get mentioned. Seems to argue very much in favor of the evolutionary benefit of female orgasm.

    All I know is if a man can't give his partner an orgasm, he's not likely to keep her long, assuming of course that neither comes from a strict, rule-bound, patriarchal conservative upbringing.

    •  The corollary is (4.00)
      that we "less attractive males" make better lovers?  I'll have to remember that one if I'm ever single again...

      Socially libertarian, Fiscally conservative, 100% Democrat. Cheney unity!

      by No One No Where on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:18:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm thinking (4.00)
      that a lot of women compartmentalize just like men do, like, "Well maybe he doesn't give me orgasms, but he's a good dad and a good provider." Meanwhile, she's got her jump-off, who satisfies her sexually, but aint worth much else. Thus a good percentage of kids who are being raised by Daddies who don't realize they're not really the Daddies! Maury Povich anyone? So then maybe the point of selective orgasms is diversity.

      Next NYC Kossak Meetup: May 25 @ 7pm. Email me for details!

      by JaneKnowles on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:22:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Couldn't one argue (4.00)
    I always though the reason sex felt good was evolutions way of making animals do it to reproduce.  Maybe there were species that didn't get pleasure from having sex back in the day, but they all died out because they just didn't do it.

    That's how I see the female orgasm.  You've got to get them wanting the sex too, and making it feel good, or why the hell would they do it?

    I'd just say the multple orgasm is a by product of evolutionary "design".  

    And, as a man, I'll always be jealous of women for their ability... maybe that jealousy is what started this whole patriarchy thing anyway.

    jScoop - a new blog framework by bloggers, for bloggers.

    by pacified on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:02:56 AM PDT

  •  "Who cares... (none)
    ... if a woman has an orgasm?" -- Armando

    Heh. That should light some fires.

    hink

  •  I have been campaigning for years (none)
    to get women who are not having orgasms to stop haing sex until men figure it out.

    If women would stop haing bad sex, there would be no  population explosion.

    I think this author is off his rocker.

    ...get rid of that DoD "Total Information Awareness" program that's right out of George Orwell's 1984.... AL GORE, 2003

    by TeresaInPa on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:06:01 AM PDT

    •  I'm All for Women's Orgasms (4.00)

      But I am a little curious as to how one campaigns to get women who are not having orgasm to stop having sex until they do.

      Er, do you have spies about the neighborhood who relay information on who is and who isn't?  Then, do you send them anonymous letters, exhorting them to stop having sex, or do you confront them in an "in-your-face" manner?  And, if a particular women declines to cease and desist, what's your leverage?  Guilt?  "Outing" her as anorgasmic?  Outright threats?

      And while no doubt some women don't get to come because their husbands are crappy lovers, is it always and invariably the sole fault of the male if the woman isn't getting off?  Could the men be aided in "figuring it out," if the women communicated their likes and dislikes?

      "If Jesus returns, Karl Rove will kill him." (Harvey Wasserman)

      by proudtinfoilhat on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:17:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  LOL (none)
        Good point.  Yes it is partly the woman's fault.  

        Here's a beginning list of likes and dislikes that most women would agree with:

        Don't talk to me all day in one syllable grunts and then expect me to be in the mood after football is over.

        Anyone want to add to the list?

        ...get rid of that DoD "Total Information Awareness" program that's right out of George Orwell's 1984.... AL GORE, 2003

        by TeresaInPa on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:27:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Madonna/Whore (4.00)
        Thanks to Christians there are only two molds for women sexually.

        They are either the Madonna or the Whore.

        Madonna means you don't talk about sex you just have a miracle baby and you giggle and blush alot. Madonnas should never ever discuss sex especially not with their husband.

        Whores typically are the ones who are open about sex. They, ta duh, ENJOY SEX. Sex is fun, sex is loving.

        This is why so many, yes it's our fault, why so many women are so fucked in the head about sex. Why so many couples basically do push up sex in the sheets and never ever get off. They don't talk about it - they don't explore, discover, share.

        Why is it a sin for a woman to take her lovers hand and say "touch me there"? Or "I want to try (this or that) with you"?

        I AM a WHORE as well as a MOTHER. I LOVE having sex with my husband. However he had to be woken up a bit, even though he's older than I am, and be told over and over again - it's OKAY to explore, touch, play. Sex isn't a sin. Hang ups are a sin.

        The most fucked up woman I've ever met (yes she's a Bushitte) is a married woman who hadn't had sex with her husband for TWO YEARS. They were married during that time too. Helloooo!!!

        Carl Sagan once wrote that medicinal marijuana helps relationships get over the "sex talk" BS of so many ruined marriages. There are erotica books, blue movies for couples (hey there's a reason for a remote control and so many sites where you can rent blue movies so you don't have to go into an adult store...) There's games that stimulate discussion. Better yet, write your lover a naughty email. It's time to discover each other.  

        If you are not having orgasms, then speak up to your lover. Bring some discussion to the bed, floor, whereever. If you can't talk about sex to your lover than you shouldn't be having sex with that person.

        Sex... just one more thing "those" people tried to fuck up.

        And... there is nothing wrong ladies with ladies being horny - the initiator. There's "making love" but "getting fucked" is just as important. What's the difference? Besides the "framing".  

        I think it takes maybe a bit more trust and communication for me and my lover to let him know - "lay off the romantic speil and let's just get it on".

        Oh and this whole "I have a headache...." Aside from those nasty migraines... I know of nothing better to soothe my headaches than some incredible netherland stimulations.

        Sorry if this offends some. But it's "just sex talk". :)

        All men are created equal - some just stick out more.

        by Damnit Janet on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:20:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I second your thoughts (none)
      If noone had bad sex, there would be no republicans or religious nutbags reproducing :-)

      Honey, I love you. Will you Civil Union me??

      by jdp mn on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:42:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A long as we're here in the toy section of (none)
    life.

    What kind of sex toys do you think the Bushes use?  I bet Condoleeza has a collection of apparatus and we know she digs leather.

  •  Amen on point #1 (4.00)
    I went through 38 hours of labour. I deserve a reward, damnit!

    "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

    by catnip on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:08:14 AM PDT

    •  Yes. (4.00)
      You deserve a 38-hour orgasm.  At least.

      "But why destroy Hitler?" -- Pat Buchanan

      by Irfo on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:17:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Which reminds me of a sci-fi story (none)
        I read ages ago - being hooked up to an orgasm inducing machine and literally dissolving.

        Orgams could last a bit longer for my tastes, but not that long!  lol

        ...Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things....

        by PhillyGal on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:20:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  funny (4.00)
          I wrote an e-mail to my daughter last nite to tell her never to say that I died "doing what I loved" unless I died in my sleep.

          Dissolving into oblivion doesn't sound like a bad way to go though, I must say. Maybe I'll make that exception too.

          "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

          by catnip on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:40:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  ...Or Woody Allen's Orgasmatron... (none)
          ...there's something I would like to invent..lol.

          BTW, IIRC, that was from the movie, "Sleeper" correct? Giant chickens and all?

          Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. -Tom Paine

          by Alumbrados on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:42:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  ...or the machine in... (none)
          ...the Walken/Wood vehicle Brainstorm.  

          Remember the scene where the guy hooks up the virtual reality gizmo, cues up the tape his colleague made of himself having sex with some floozy, and then put it on repeat?  The Walken character finds the guy in the throes after a few hours and he's almost dead.

          Cool movie.

          Two-step, lockstep, goosestep: Herr Busch's three-step plan to a righter tomorrow.

          by The Termite on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:00:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You mean like (none)
          groups.yahoo.com/meltingwomen

          I think that's the link.  I'm not looking it up at work.  (By the way, you shouldn't either.)

      •  no kidding (none)
        Now if only I had an actual date, I'd be happening. :)

        "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

        by catnip on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:38:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The day after... (4.00)
      ... my son's birthday (which is today btw), is my wife's own personal holiday. After watching her give birth not only to a baby, but also a nurse's arm, she deserves it.

      hink

  •  I think (none)
    Perhaps female orgasm DOES perform a reproductive role... all that contracting surely acts to hold in some little swimmers and push 'em upstream... no?

    "Revolutionary change does not come as one cataclysmic moment...but as an endless succession of surprises, moving zigzag toward a more decent society."

    by saint on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:10:22 AM PDT

    •  true that, but not necessary (none)
      for conception to happen, and tilting of the pelvis can duplicate that to a large degree.

      ...Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things....

      by PhillyGal on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:13:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  that's one of the arguments (none)
      in the article.
      •  ah ha (none)
        And I didn't even read it yet :)  

        And yes, Philly, true true... but the contractions surely help out some..., and perhaps would have in the days before we understood pelvis tilting, no?  

        "Revolutionary change does not come as one cataclysmic moment...but as an endless succession of surprises, moving zigzag toward a more decent society."

        by saint on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:17:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Understanding of female orgasm (none)
          is even newer, no?  This emphasis on female orgasm is a relatively modern phenomenon, part of the '60's Sexual Revolution, the way I understand it.

          ...Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things....

          by PhillyGal on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:23:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Early 20th century Americans were (none)
            pretty interested. In the early 1900s, maybe even before the turn of the century, Montgomery Ward made a machine, big ol' vibrator, that helped doctors administer "pelvic massage."

            It was to help women get over their melancholia and other womanly problems.

            Probably worked, too.

            Read it in the NYer several years ago--before you could link their stories, hell probably before Al Gore invented the internet. I've looked in the archives since and can't find it. Someday I'll go to the library and find the article.

    •  My thoughts exactly... (none)

      Canadians care too...

      by jbalazs on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:16:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Orgasum causes spasms in the cervix. (4.00)
    These have the general effect of "pumping" semen into the uterus.

    No link, I was watching the TDC when they mentioned it.

    That being said, the continual sexual receptivity of the human female, which orgasm supports, tends to result in a longer term support from the male.

    Being in heat is a lot like a Freshman mixer.  In the morning, the male is gone.

    I would also argue that the continual sexual receptivity of the human female is largely responsible for the fact that we have any society at all.

    Basically, men create societies, monuments, etc. to impress babes.

    This applies to all human behavior, except for the Three Stooges, which most women hate.

    The Dream involves 4 sets of identical twins, 2 gallons of Cool Whip, 5 quarts of chocolate syrup, 2-1/4 pounds of strawberries, satin sheets, a magnum of champ

    by msaroff on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:15:02 AM PDT

  •  I love (4.00)
    how one of the scientist's names is "Dr. Alcock." Lol--what the fuck would he know about pussy??

    Next NYC Kossak Meetup: May 25 @ 7pm. Email me for details!

    by JaneKnowles on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:15:46 AM PDT

  •  Ah, my kind of diary! (4.00)
    Life would not be half as pleasant if it werent for this very special spot. Its existence is yet more proof that God is merciful, not vengeful. IMO it is superior to the baggage which men are forced to carry...much like old big cellphones of yesterday vs the slim pocket sized ones of today. hee hee.

    If there are any women readng this who do not know whether or not you have had an orgasm, you must immediately get to trying...get some how-to books, watch or read something stimulating (may I suggest Tim Oliphant on Deadwood? Purrrrrrr...), and keep at it until theres no denying what has happened. Just do it. It is good for overall humanity.

    In the midst of life we are in debt, etc.

    by ablington on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:18:41 AM PDT

  •  Evolutionary indeed... (none)
    Kudos to lorraine..always provocative and enlightening.

    I agree with jetfan above that the female orgasm, that along with the male orgasm, who'd bother to reproduce at all?

    The revolutionary aspect of this point is the acknowledgement that women are biologically designed to consent, not be the object of the man's fulfillment.

    For required reading, see She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman,  by Ian Kerner.

    ..and if you're a good learner, she comes first, second, third...etc.

  •  Just for fun? NOOOOOOOOOOO! (4.00)
    I read thru the story this morn, and my first thought was that if no valid reason can be found for women to orgasm, the religious right will have to ban it. And I don't even want to think about how that would be accomplished.
    For now, just let me keep my hand-held shower head!
    •  Ah! Ye Olde Hand Held Shower Head ;) (none)

      ...Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things....

      by PhillyGal on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:35:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  In case you haven't noticed... (4.00)
      ... they're workin' on it.

      "We have the power. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we've decided to use it." Posted by Jeremey*in*MS at February 3, 2005 01:59 PM

      by Andrew C White on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:40:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  oh yeah (none)
        I've said it before and I'll say it again. "They" need to

        Get your bible out of my vagina

        What's next? Female castration? They do that in other lands because the belief is is that women shouldn't enjoy sex at all and that self-pleasure is evil.  

        Basically, women are evil and so are their bodies.

        I truly believe that this administration not only hates freedom, liberty and democracy but it also hates women, minorities, and children.

        Maybe I should buy an extra shower nozzle just in case....

        All men are created equal - some just stick out more.

        by Damnit Janet on Tue May 17, 2005 at 12:03:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Cliff Claven here (none)
    Every aspect of our physiology and biology has some evolutionary advantage, but looking for it in modern times (as in the past 100,000 years), you won't see it.  When humans were evolving, society was primarily matriarchal - women sent men out hunting because they were expendable.  Also, 30 years old was old, so you need to think of it as a society of 15 year olds, ie - raging bundles of hormones.  Since there was no real medicine, life was pretty painful, and going through pregnancy was a major risk to ones life.  Speaking as a former 15 year old boy who would sneak in to the bedroom of the daughter of the head of the NRA if she was hot enough, teenagers are known to swap immediate pleasure for future pain.  Simply - sex had to be pleasurable for all parties involved for it to even happen.  Not all women today experience orgasm, which is a tragedy, but doesn't change the idea that all women had to when humans were evolving, or atleast it was the ones who enjoyed sex who were reproducing the most.
    •  crap (none)
      Every aspect of our physiology and biology has some evolutionary advantage ...

      Crap.  Somebody can make up a story about why an aspect of our physiology and biology has some advantage, but mostly it's pure Rudyard Kiping.  As a package we're a fuckin' kludge, with plenty of things that are just around because they're not enough of a disadvantage to have been selected against.

      It's sort of like society.  There's an old saying that "It takes all kinds".  Well, no, it friggin' doesn't take all kinds.  Maybe we have all (most) kinds, but society would do just fine without some of them.  It's just that it'd be much much more dangerous to try to decide which types we could do without.

      Proud member of the reality-based minority

      by Bearpaw on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:30:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Time to be pedantic (none)
    "I know you guys think kidney stones are bad, but try passing an 8 pound stone."

    It's about ratio and scale. Imagine this:
    (measurements totally made up for sake of argument. the point still stands)

    1. Trying to push a 9" diameter watermelon through a 3" diameter PVC pipe.

    2. Trying to push a 3" diameter rock through a 1" diameter PVC pipe.

    3. Trying to push a 3mm diameter stone through a 1mm diameter straw.

    It's all about ratios. Saying "try passing an 8 pound stone" is a disengenious argument like saying "oh you think the stone through a straw is bad try a 9" watermelon through that straw!")

    I don't doubt that childbirth is horrible, and a kidney stone may or may not be as painful. But I gotta be pendantic about the logical fallacy of your counter-argument.

    /pedantic ass

    •  try sh*tting a watermelon (none)
      does that help?

      You make a good point, however.......

      From what I understand passing a kidney stone happens with lots of pain but no particular effort on the passee's part.  My guess, having done the child birth and not the stone, is that child birth still trumps kidney stones  on the misery scale.

      ...get rid of that DoD "Total Information Awareness" program that's right out of George Orwell's 1984.... AL GORE, 2003

      by TeresaInPa on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:42:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  that's better :) (none)
        I agree, I don't know how to comapre the two levels of pain. I mean, it's impossible and all just "it hurts more!" and "no mine hurts more!"

        But are we comparing effort or pain? (for those who may think otherwise, I'mnot saying a kidney stone is worse or even as bad. I'm just saying there is really no way to compare as I know of know one who as experienced both)

        again, I can be a total pedantic ass sometimes. My apologies.

      •  My friend (none)
        Has had to pass 3 stones since 1990.  Since 1998 she's had 3 kids.  She said she's rather do the stones anyday.  She said that even with her epidurals, that childbirth was just much more painful and tiring than any of her stones.  

        As for comparison, I always use the "shitting a watermelon" visual, with the added and you have constipation.  It helps, but still, they'll never really get it.

        •  constipation is a given (none)
          when sh*tting watermellons.  LOL

          You are right, you can't "get it" until you've done it.  I did it naturally, so I must be nuts.

          ...get rid of that DoD "Total Information Awareness" program that's right out of George Orwell's 1984.... AL GORE, 2003

          by TeresaInPa on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:33:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Having a clue helps. honestly. (none)
        Pains & odd symptoms for unknown reasons are always worse than the same pains & symptoms when you know why they're happining.

        MOST (but not all) women in labor have a clue as to what's going on & why. (Yes, we've all ready stories of teenagers who didn't know they were preggers 'till they popped).

        One's first kidneystone is really scary.
        Severe abdominal pain for no apparent reason is always scary.

        Passing a stone isn't labor-intensive --dang, there isn't anything useful you can do about it even if you wanted to  (yeah yeah drink lots of fluids & tough it out).

        Disclaimers: Thestral's not given birth, but has had several kidneystones over the years.  The all-too frequent headaches are about as painful as the stones.
          Do I get extra orgasms for passing a 7mm stone last month?

        TMI.

    •  A Woman Who Gave Birth To Twins . . . (none)
      whom I knew, had also passed a stone, so she had some basis for comparison.  She told me that passing the stone was worse.

      When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart. - Emerson

      by foolrex on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:01:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's hard to compare... (none)
        When you pass a stone you are ill...

        When you pass a human wink you are alos excited to meet your new baby, and sick of being pregnant.

        That is a HUGE difference, and mindset has a very large effect on perception of pain.

    •  I've had kidney stones and a baby (4.00)
      Beleive me, you don't know pain until you've experienced either.

      "I have lived with several Zen masters -- all of them cats." - Eckhart Tolle

      by catnip on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:03:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  In my experience... (none)
    A dental abscess is much worse than having a baby.

    Admittedly, I dropped my kids with ease, but....

    Now getting the kids through high school in once piece....  THAT was a challenge!

    Hijack their frames! Cheap, easy, effective.

    by chriscol on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:38:19 AM PDT

  •  This is just great (none)
    The female orgasm story has 72 comments as it dissapears down the page but the diary immediately after it dealing with a bombs for oil scandal has only 1 comment.

    Here's the title of my next diary: On Porn, Orgasms, Nudity, and Sex. Under which I will post my best Chili recipie.

    New idea for Comedy Central game show: Kick Ben Stein's Ass

    by bobinson on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:40:22 AM PDT

  •  Lorraine (none)
    You make me wet.  ;)
  •  Its good for you. (none)
    Probably does more for your health than anything. Women need much more of it, IMHO. I get on much better with well laid women than the other way around.

    "I am not a crook" - The Honourable Richard M. Nixon

    by tricky dick on Tue May 17, 2005 at 10:58:12 AM PDT

  •  "Ooooooooooo (4.00)
    sweet mystery of life at last I found youuuuuuuuuu" - The Late Great Madeline Kahn in Young Frankenstein

    Maybe that's the diff between those scum sucking talibaptist bush supporting mule hugging maggots don't have. Orgasms

    We have "O"s

    They have "W"s

    All men are created equal - some just stick out more.

    by Damnit Janet on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:00:49 AM PDT

  •  Jared Diamond (none)
    (author of "Guns, Germs & Steel," and more recently "Collapse") once wrote a book called "Why Sex Is Fun" in which he mused about such things.  But I don't think he really answered the question you pose.  Nonetheless, I'm glad women have them, I'm glad they can have them multiple times and I think they are nice.  All hail the big O!!

    When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart. - Emerson

    by foolrex on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:05:39 AM PDT

  •  Obvious (none)
    Men that can stimulate women to orgasm are more likely to be seen as preferred sex partners, thus allowing them greater opportunity to impregnate a woman and thus spread their genes.

    Sponge Bob, Mandrake, Cartoons. That's how your hard-core islamahomocommienazis work.

    by Benito on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:30:06 AM PDT

  •  Re: Female orgasms (4.00)
    I just use my tongue...works every time...

    "Gahm, you're gonna be a burger flipper someday..." - My Ninth Grade Chemistry teacher Mr. Pritchard

    by the holy handgrenade on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:38:51 AM PDT

    •  YES! 20 millions points for you! (none)
      That'll do me in every time. It's not even part of "foreplay" cause it total kerrushes me.

      All men are created equal - some just stick out more.

      by Damnit Janet on Tue May 17, 2005 at 11:43:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bingo (none)
      That's the first thing I use, for a few reasons:

      1.  I like to do it.

      2.  Usually, but not always, she likes it.

      3.  If 2 holds true, then I'm usually able to bring her to orgasm.  That way, she feels she's gotten something out of the experience if I'm not up to intercourse.
  •  Context of (none)
    what it means to be a creative human and how we live our life and what we do with it. Think of a field of penguins... and there's always that one or two that are "sticking out". :)

    All men are created equal - some just stick out more.

    by Damnit Janet on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:01:56 PM PDT

  •  Asking the wrong question... (none)
    Instead of pondering "Why do women have orgasms?", try "Why can't men have multiple orgasms?"  E.g. think of orgasms as a natural incentive for everyone to have lots of great long-lasting sex... except for men, the attribute is attenuated into "... but not very often (recharge the sperm count), and don't spend a lot of time doing it (off to the hunt!)."

    Rather like nipples - men have 'em but in a form broken by the lack of a second X chromosome.

    ... or maybe I'm wrong ...

    Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and truth. -- Henrik Ibsen

    by mik on Tue May 17, 2005 at 02:42:06 PM PDT

  •  maybe.... (none)
    it gives the female a reason to want to procreate with the male in the first place.

    Those that are better at providing one will get more female action and hence spread their seed far and wide...

  •  as a guy (none)
    the evolutionary logic of female orgasm isn't of that much interest to me, though if anyone ever comes up with definitive proof, I'd certainly like to hear about it.

    What interests me as a single guy are good ways to induce them, preferably mulitple (I have heard of fingers, tongues, and various electrical appliances used in this context - and I'm surprised Hitachi Magic Wands haven't come up yet) and of course, unusual methods for inducing them.

    Inducing female orgasms is fun, watching and listening to them is fun, and I've observed that one is far more likely to be invited to bed a second time if the evening hasn't been orgasm-free for the woman involved.

    Perhaps Republican men not getting this is why so many are members of the bestiality-based community.

    Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

    by alizard on Tue May 17, 2005 at 06:35:35 PM PDT

Click here for the mobile view of the site