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Posted on ThinkProgress.org :

BREAKING: Ignoring Deal, Frist to File for Cloture on Myers

Last night, Frist indicated he would abide by the agreement.

...

But Congress Daily PM reports that Frist has other ideas for later in the week:

Senate Majority Leader Frist will file for cloture on President Bush's nomination of William Myers to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals later this week, according to sources on and off Capitol Hill, wasting no time in testing the resolve of 14 Republican and Democratic senators who forced at least a temporary halt to the battle over Democratic filibusters of President Bush's judicial picks.

Maybe this isn't such an anti-climactic Tuesday after all?

[Update] This isn't about the Nuclear Option being put on the table again -- it isn't. What it is about is a divided Republican party...and a perfect example of Frist catering to the extreme Right.

Let's repeat the talking point we've been given here -- that Frist is ignoring the compromise made by moderates from both sides of the aisle.

It's an example of Frist's ugly partisanship, his allegiance to Dobson, as well as his LACK OF CONTROL over his own caucus.

Originally posted to ZanderOC on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:19 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Gesture to Dobson??? (none)
    At first glance, maybe this is just a gesture by Frist to Dobson so he can still court the fundies for 2008, even though he knows he'll lose?
  •  if true... (none)
    it's time to see what kind of men these GOoPs really are.

    jScoop - a new blog communinty in need of passionate people. Stop by, join, and blog!

    by pacified on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:17:01 PM PDT

  •  Remember (4.00)
    Frist isn't a party to the deal, and this is perfectly within his rights.  Politically, he needs to establish that he didn't abandon Myers; others did.

    "Let's put our heads together/And start a new country up/Our father's father's father tried/Erased the parts he didn't like" - R.E.M., "Cuyahoga"

    by Adam B on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:17:47 PM PDT

  •  It'll be interesting to see how many (4.00)
    other Republican senators join the seven dealmakers, the Democrats, and Jeffords on the cloture vote.
    •  they don't have to. (4.00)
      All they need to do is not support Frist if he tries to invoke the nuclear option after cloture fails.

      "Let's put our heads together/And start a new country up/Our father's father's father tried/Erased the parts he didn't like" - R.E.M., "Cuyahoga"

      by Adam B on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:23:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Am I understanding this right? (none)
        Frist can call for the cloture without breaking the compromise as per Senate rules it takes 60 (61?) votes for cloture to pass and just 40 votes to keep the fillibuster going.  However, if Frist breaks the rules of the Senate and calls for the end to the fillibuster by a majority of 51 votes, ignoring the parliamentarian, that's when we'll find out if the 7 Repubs will stand by their word and vote against Frist.  
        •  That's about it. (none)
          Frist is not a party to the agreement, first off, and there's nothing obligating him to do anything.  He is free to seek cloture on these nominees, and the Dem signatories, per the agreement, don't need to give it to him.

          If he calls for the end of the filibuster, he is asking those Republicans to break the agreement.  (Perhaps he's hoping for Dem votes?)  In all likelikood, it's just a pander to the base to say, hey, I tried.

          "Let's put our heads together/And start a new country up/Our father's father's father tried/Erased the parts he didn't like" - R.E.M., "Cuyahoga"

          by Adam B on Wed May 25, 2005 at 05:46:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't know if you'll see this response as (none)
            the diary is long gone, but anyhow, thanks.  I thought I understood what was going on, but the more comments I read on this diary, esp. regarding how dare Frist call for cloture as this broke the compromise deal, the more unsure I was about whether I was getting it or no.  So thanks again!  
            •  no, I saw it (none)
              There are people on dKos more interested in making political arguments than dealing with the truth sometimes.

              "Let's put our heads together/And start a new country up/Our father's father's father tried/Erased the parts he didn't like" - R.E.M., "Cuyahoga"

              by Adam B on Wed May 25, 2005 at 10:54:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  It's a power play... (4.00)
    and it fits my latest theory (plug):

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/24/19318/9546

    Breaking the alliance is the right's only goal now, because otherwise those 7 republicans have usurped Frist's/Dobson's power in the Senate.

    It's McCain vs. Frist

    When all else fails...panic

    by David in Burbank on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:21:32 PM PDT

    •  It's more than than just a power play. (none)
      Frist will now see if all 7 stand up for what they did.  If they don't Dem.s are screwed until election day, then Repub.s are screwed.

      My cousin's take on the whole thing was that he would have "his people in Washington" figure it out for him (he strongly believes that his tax dollars are used to pay his Representatives and Senators salaries directly and that they figure out what's in his best interests before they act, luckily he lives in California).  I think this rings true for the majority of voters.

      While extremists may agree with the "I'm not a party to the agreement" crap, try selling it to middle America.  They are sick to hell of hearing about this issue, and if polled correctly could probably be seen are choosing to literally nuke the Senate and start with a whole new batch rather than figure out whose right and wrong, which deals apply to which Senate rules and all that crap.

    •  Indeed (none)
      And an additional fuck you to, for example, Lindsey Graham, who will now most likely have to go on the record voting against the nuclear option and thus finishing off Myers (again).  Then further outrage from the fundies, and wallah, Radical Cleric Dobson funds a primary opponent against him (and the other six) next time around.

      --Stu

      •  but that's not true... (none)
        Graham can vote for closure, so can any Republican.  There's no reason for them to vote against it, since the Dems have enough votes to prevent cloture.  All Graham or any other Republican has to do is vote against the nuclear option.
      •  I think this is a good point (none)
        Isn't Frist putting his own ambitions first and shafting any moderates who face primary challenges from the right. And for what? Is there any chance this twit will actually get the Republican nomination?
        •  I hope he DOES (none)
          Completely without charisma and a senator to boot. He's not electable. The Rs could nominate someone way stronger.

          Things to do today: 1. retreat; 2. retrench; 3. lower expectations

          by Joan in Seattle on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:31:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There are others... (none)
            ...but the far right has really done a pretty good job keeping Republicans who aren't giant sleaze-balls out of positions of power, and subtlely sliming the ones that do get there.  

            The problem is, of course, that it doesn't really matter, because the public has a trend of electing (or nearly electing) an unappealling sleaze-ball as president, so obviously most of this country doesn't look at these people the way I do.

            The idea that anyone could listen to a man who clearly has the IQ of a cocker spaniel and then vote for him as president is still beyond me.

            Eventually though, it will come back to bite them. I keep thinking its going to happen, and it doesn't, but it will.

            (I have to keep telling myself that, or I get depressed).

      •  Great, less money spent beating Democrats. (n/t) (none)

        You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...

        by imagine on Tue May 24, 2005 at 08:05:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Frist... (4.00)
      wants to consolidate the conservative base for himself (or, rather, whomever he'd like to see nominated in 2008).

      And he is obviously a little pissed at McCain and Graham.

      What's the solution?

      Force Graham and McCain to either vote against cloture (and thus for the filibuster) OR to vote AGAINST the radically conservative judicial nominees.

      Either way, the Dobson crowd will be pissed at them at the end of the day.

      Outside the box solutions at low, low prices! http://jayshark.blogdrive.com/

      by Jonathan4Dean on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:42:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well, (none)
      McCain had lost my respect big-time after voting to confirm Abu Gonzales. This may be his chance to win some back. If he has recovered his testes from Frist's (AWISFIMD) desk drawer and actually keeps the seven samurai together on this, he'll likely redeem himself to a great extent in my book. He used to be a man with whom I could disagree with politically and still respect. Lately, he's been as much of a toady as anyone.
      Man, I hope he keeps his word. I imagine he's got to be pretty pissed at Frist (AWISFIMD) for going all three-year-old on this.
      John McCain, stand up to this uselees, toxic agenda, and the sociopaths who try to propagate it.
      •  McCain (4.00)
        lost my respect, vote, and funds when he sucked up to shrub in the campaign.  I know as a repug he had to pay lip service to him, but he went WAAAAAY overboard for that AWOL asshole.  

        Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. John Donne

        by scurrvydog on Tue May 24, 2005 at 05:15:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  McCain's an egomaniac opportunist (none)
          He knew firsthand Bush & Co fight dirty and still he hugged the friggin' bast**d on the campaign trail.

          He makes me sick.

          I hope both he & Frist go down in flames.

          •  Yeah, I have zero respect for the man. (none)
            I used to feel like McCain was one of the few Republicans I could have a little respect for, despite the fact that most of the time I still disagreed with his positions.  But the more I've watched him,  through things like his vocal support of Bush during the election and his backing of Gonzalez, the more I realize, just as you've said: he's no more principled than the rest of them, he's just an opportunist.  He doesn't vote his conscience, it's just a calculated power play.  I don't trust him one bit, and frankly I almost prefer the stupid, party-line Republican senators: at least you know where they stand (wherever they're told to).

            McCain may occasionally be useful for Democrats to scavenge a vote now and then, but I don't give him much credit.

      •  yeah (none)
        same here. Although I think he has regained a bit of my respect. I'll never vote for him, and I dont like him, but I dont hate him as much. If he wants to screw the right wing and Frist, I wont stand in his way.

        Between Bush's commencement speech and his wife's Mid-East visit, the Bush family pissed off Christians, Jews and Muslims this weekend. -Randi Rhodes.

        by jj32 on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:32:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  McCain vs Frist? (none)
      I hope they destroy each other.

      ...................... "My theory of evolution is that Darwin was adopted." Steven Wright

      by wrights on Tue May 24, 2005 at 05:00:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is that GOP civil War... (4.00)
    Pat Buchannon was talking about prior to the election?

    jScoop - a new blog communinty in need of passionate people. Stop by, join, and blog!

    by pacified on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:24:21 PM PDT

  •  the world's greatest deliberative body (none)
    has come to unconditional surrender.

    "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." ~ George Washington

    by guyermo on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:25:16 PM PDT

  •  /sigh (4.00)
    (1)This deal implicitly presumes that one can trust the Republicans.  Have we not learned anything from the last five years?

    visit my new blog!(updated today)

    it's pretty. and informative. it's pretty informative.

    by Georgia Logothetis on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:25:25 PM PDT

    •  Have we not been paying ANY attention? (4.00)

      'Republicans'? Y'mean Privatizing, Downsizing, Court-Packing, Red Ink Republicans?

      by RonK Seattle on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:36:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm optimistic (4.00)
      I think the Republicans are now going to be locked in an internal power struggle, the moderates vs. the Cabbagehead Wingers.  What we've learned in the last 5 years is that it's going to get ugly!
      •  I'm... (4.00)
        I'm a fairly moderate guy, at least as far as my approach to consensus.  I have strong principles that I believe in, but I'm willing to give a little (on most issues) to make a workable plan that is "good enough" for the country.  I honestly believe that many, many Republicans a) have as many idealistic, good faith ideas as I do and are not evil cretins, or b) are just as disgustingly self-interested as most Democratic politicians (or any politicians).  I say this as preface to make the point that I'm not really a foaming at the mouth Republican-hater who lives for nothing more than the death of the Republican Party.

        Anyway, Frist doing this comes across to me, a relative moderate, as bitter, acrimonious, and a little bit desperate.  

        Whether it is or it isn't, the lesson we have to learn very, very soon is just to say that it is.  "Golly, Tim," says Big Time Dem on Talk Show, "Dr. Frist is getting awfully desperate to be ignoring bipartisan consensus like this.  I guess he's bitter that he's not the one making the headlines!" and cue laughter.

        Anyway, I had a point... oh, yeah, I'm a D and in no danger of voting for many R's any time soon, but I'm also moderate, and this little Fristacular just doesn't strike me as good politics or good PR (except for a tiny, limited group).

    •  Double Sigh (none)
      From one of the thread's last night...


      Let them try (none / 0)

      Already a vast majority of Americans think they're crazy for doing this. Let them make themselves look even more crazy then they already do. Let them brush aside bi-partisanship and moderation to push through a discredited and unpopular extremist
      agenda.

      The reason this deal is such a big victory us is because of what we can do if Republicans break it. It makes Frist and the ultra-cons look even more out of touch and power-hungry, as well as making it very, very hard for any of the moderates who signed the deal to backtrack and support him.

      If they try to pull that nuclear trigger now, we will bury them come the mid-terms. So let them try it, and see what happens.

      Come see the house that Tom Delay built.
      by Goldfish on Tue May 24th, 2005 at 01:59:58 CST

      Come see the house that Tom Delay built.

      by Goldfish on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:30:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thur ye go (4.00)
      People who haven't had their whole state stolen through Diebold don't get it yet. Every function for the sake of justice in our government depends entirely on the good faith of officials who perform those functions. Many of our highest officials have demonstrated that they have less than zero good faith, so they obey no rules. When only one side follows the rules, then the rules are a useless handicap. Every compromise the Dems make further codifies our de facto impotence.

      This aggregation of senses does not amount to a self.

      by paraphrase on Tue May 24, 2005 at 07:31:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Rights and realities. (none)
        My biggest fear is that this deal will mean a de facto and voluntary relinquishment of the filibuster.  In other word, the minority agrees to cease opposition in return for the right to oppose.   And in so doing, the country is not alerted to the fact that our country has become a one party state through the acquiescence of the minority.

        I'm starting to scare myself.

  •  No (4.00)
    This is not a big deal.  Frist files for cloture, presumably it fails and the filibuster is upheld.  No big whoop.

    The actual "nuclear option" would be what were to come next - him getting a ruling from the chair that the filibuster is out of order.  The Democrats will appeal and then they all vote to approve or overturn the ruling from the chair.  The 7 Republicans who signed the deal are bound to vote to overturn at this stage.

    •  Oh I disagree (4.00)
      this HUGE NEWS. This shows us who runs the Republican Party.

      This example MUST be trumpeted across the country.

      Frist Breaks Deal!!!

      This is the best thing I've heard all day.

      I am postively giddy.

      The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

      by Armando on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:32:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You mean (none)
        Who is "attempting" to run the RP, right? I can't believe he won't have his ass kicked across the country if he breaks this deal.

        Anything by Loudon Wainwright III

        by Earl on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:35:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Pssst (4.00)
          It is not his deal to break.

          But nobody has to hear that part.

          "Republican Leader Frist, and when I say Frist I mean Dobson, Breaks Deal!"

          Pass it on.

          The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

          by Armando on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:37:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  oh, come on (none)
            So what you're saying, Armando, is that you'd like people to start advancing argument that we all know to be factually baseless?

            We can do better.

            "Let's put our heads together/And start a new country up/Our father's father's father tried/Erased the parts he didn't like" - R.E.M., "Cuyahoga"

            by Adam B on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:44:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What is baseless? (4.00)
              Did he say he would abide by the deal last night?

              Is he NOT trying to break the deal?

              Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

              Constitutional Option? Up or down votes? Unpreceented judicial filibuster?

              What the fuck Adam? There is nothing untrue in what I say. Frist IS trying to break the deal. That he can't is something I believe, but I so not know that for a fact. Do you?

              You fucking toleratre 8 million Big Lies from them. This is the truth and you bitch about it? Remind me that I never want you on my campaign team.

              The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

              by Armando on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:48:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The deal . . . (none)
                . . . is that these six Republican senators will not vote for the nuclear option, but that those six Democrats can provide the necessary votes to deny cloture on Myers and Saad.

                Here's what Frist said last night:

                If Owen, Pryor, and Brown can receive the courtesy and respect of a fair up or down vote, so can Myers and Saad.

                So I will continue to work with everything in my power to see that these judicial nominees also receive that fair, up or down vote that they deserve. But it is not in this agreement.

                "Let's put our heads together/And start a new country up/Our father's father's father tried/Erased the parts he didn't like" - R.E.M., "Cuyahoga"

                by Adam B on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:54:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  The Deal? (none)
                Wasn't the deal that the 'nuclear option' was off the table because 7 Republicans would vote no, and cloture would pass for 3 nominees because 7 democrats would vote yes?

                That still leaves Frist the option of calling for a cloture vote on any of the others, nothing was said about that, just that there was no guarantee any democrats would vote for it. So there is a presumption that it would fail.

                Frist also has the option of trying to wait out the filibuster. There is no rule that says a filibuster can't be allowed to last indefinitely.

              •  OUCH! (none)
                Hot stuff, comin' through, watch your back....

                OF COURSE Frist is trying to break the deal!!  If he doesn't he has to go back to Tennessee and play a Doctor on the local access channel.

                What does "Adam" think Frist is doing?  The Macarena?  

                http://www.angelfire.com/al/aserio/macarena.html

                •  no, "Adam" (none)
                  Thinks Frist is trying to salvage his base by demonstrating that, damnit, he tried.

                  "Let's put our heads together/And start a new country up/Our father's father's father tried/Erased the parts he didn't like" - R.E.M., "Cuyahoga"

                  by Adam B on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:58:10 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Point taken (none)
            I still think, and I gather you agree, he's toast if he breaks "this" (not "his") deal.

            Anything by Loudon Wainwright III

            by Earl on Tue May 24, 2005 at 05:11:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly (4.00)
        That was my point in posting it...This is the perfect example of Frist catering to Dobson with the result being a very divided Republican party.  

        "Frist breaks deal" should be the soundbite we repeat any chance we get.  

        I'm hoping even the MSM can do the math: If the compromise was made by moderates, and Frist is ignoring the compromise, that would make him an...extremist.  Even among Republicans.

        "It's not the voting that's democracy; it's the counting." -- Tom Stoppard

        by ZanderOC on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:40:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I agree... (none)
        I feel giddy too!  I really, really, really want the public to see the wingnuts out from behind those walls of lies, propoganda, double-speak and distraction Christian Nationalists have been using for 10 years to build their Trojan horse!  I want those damn pricks out in the streets where I can see the white of their hoods!

        Yeeeeaaargh!  Bring 'em on!!!!

      •  right (none)
        which is one of the most significant parts of the deal to begin with, that such a deal exists.

        Between Bush's commencement speech and his wife's Mid-East visit, the Bush family pissed off Christians, Jews and Muslims this weekend. -Randi Rhodes.

        by jj32 on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:34:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ahem, (none)
        I posted "Frist will invoke cloture" at 13:14:15 on Kos' Last Word on Compromise.

        No, I am not "Deepthroat".

        The snake in the grass is ben Nelson, Nebraska.

        Thought someone might do some Sherlock on him.

        Chastity: the most unnatural of the sexual perversions. Aldous Huxley

        by Maine Atticus on Tue May 24, 2005 at 07:45:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  wasn't there talk, though (none)
      of frist tabling any motions of appeal and such?
  •  Has Myers even been brought up yet? (none)
    You can't file cloture on something that isn't before the Senate, at least that's my understanding.
    •  not as far as I know (none)
      I think you're right Coldblue. I think Frist is playing to the very cheap seats here; he's not actually going to call a vote that he would lose and which would reveal him to be the craven wanna-be Taliban that he is -- he's going to try to work up a steam over an issue that doesn't exist, so he can claim the Democrats have broken the deal by using the filibuster (which of course they will not.)

      If he does bring it to a vote, he's going to look a blithering idiot. I can't see any way he gains on this ...other than he keeps to Rove's advice on how to win the nomination: no daylight between you, Billy, and the hard-line clerics of the Taliban.

  •  Lovely. The guppies will eat their own. (4.00)
    Let the repugs be the deal breakers. Let Frist and Dobson beat the big drum to round up the faithful.

    We are cursed to live in interesting times.

  •  Is Tennessee getting sick of this shit yet? (none)
    What's the local press saying about Frist or opinion polling on him?  He's up for election in '06.

    KISS -- Keep It Simple, Stupid! :-D

    by Viktor on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:28:54 PM PDT

    •  no he's not (none)
      For what it's worth, Frist has pledged not to run again in '06.
      •  I wasn't aware of that (none)
        thanks.  No wonder now he's even more unhinged.

        KISS -- Keep It Simple, Stupid! :-D

        by Viktor on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:32:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ah. Because he wants to be President. (none)
        I see.

        So does McCain. If McCain is to have any chance of winning the nomination, he must diminish the influence of the crazies in the Republican Party. I said before the election: that was why he wasn't publicly breaking with Bush... You know he has to hate Dubya's guts, but he needed to look loyal, pre-election.

        Now, though, it's time to make his move. Over the next three years, he absolutely has to discredit and dislodge the extremists -- or he's toast. He may win, he may lose. But I would expect to see a lot more clashes coming up between him and Frist.

        Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

        by Canadian Reader on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:26:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Got a source for this? (nt) (none)

        "Majorities, of course, are often mistaken. This is why the silencing of minorities is always dangerous." --Alan Barth

        by PerfectStormer on Tue May 24, 2005 at 09:34:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  it's like EVERYWHERE but ok... (none)
          Bill Frist has term-limited himself and is scheduled to leave the Senate in 2006.
          from The Weekly Standard

          Frist has made clear he will give up his Tennessee Senate seat in 2006, keeping his pledge to serve just two terms and leaving himself free to campaign for president.
          from Slate

  •  This is (none)
    GREAT news!

    The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

    by Armando on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:31:05 PM PDT

  •  I think this is great (none)
    It will likely anger the 7 Republicans that they are being challenged right after they made the deal.

    Also, if the deal is not going to hold its better to find out now rather then during a S.C battle

    •  McCain & Warner are gonna (4.00)
      Pitch a Fit, not to mention the Maine Ladies.  If this happens it would be the best possible ending of one of the biggest political power grabs in the History of the US. Can you imagine...It's all republican all the time, Preznut(who.. let me remind you, the Conservative Repugs on the SCOTUS appointed) ..Senate...House...Judical...We are swimming in a sea of Red, and this guy pulls the trigger and self distructs. Hollywood couldn't come up with a better ending. Fire away Billy Boy.

      *We live in a Nation of LAWS* 11th Circuit

      by Chamonix on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:42:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Republican Party (4.00)
        has proven itself to be very disciplined hitherto - I can't imagine why they'd suddenly decide to shred one another.  The most likely result is that they'll all suffer, and they know this.  

        When push comes to shove, the dissidents will just suck this back, confident in the short attention span of the American public.

        "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

        by fishhead on Tue May 24, 2005 at 05:35:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This shows exactly what we've been saying (4.00)
    Frist has been on the power-grab all along, while the Dems have just been trying to preserve their minority rights. This would have been an equivalent of Reid saying "well I wasn't party to the deal, so I am going to continue filibustering people anyway." That wouldn't stand, and neither will this latest Frist bullshit. He is clearly not interested in a compromise.

    Mikhail Khaimov San Francisco, CA

    by Tsarrio on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:34:08 PM PDT

  •  Nothing wrong with filing for cloture (4.00)
    Frist will file for cloture, and they'll take a vote, and he will lose, and he'll piss people off by wasting time.

    When he loses that vote, he can go nuclear (if he likes), and at some point he'll move to table a point of order, and they'll vote on that, and he'll lose again, and everybody will be pissed off, and Byrd will call him a cabbagehead again.

    No harm to the Deal, or to the Democrats.

    'Republicans'? Y'mean Privatizing, Downsizing, Court-Packing, Red Ink Republicans?

    by RonK Seattle on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:34:34 PM PDT

    •  Even Better (4.00)
      It shows who runs the Republican Party.

      We must talk this up.

      This is great.

      BTW, I agree with everything else you say.

      But this is a PR opportunity.

      We must take it.

      The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

      by Armando on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:35:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Forces the hand (4.00)
        That is, it forces the hand of the "moderates," who now have to go on the record against the nuclear option.  And then have the fundies go into one of their ecstatic rages yet again.  And then have Radical Cleric Dobson try to take them out in the next primaries.

        Among other things, Frist (and by Frist I mean Dobson) may have just given us a Senate seat in Rhode Island come November 2006.

        -- Stu

        •  Wouldn't it be splendid.... (none)
          ...If this deal showed the moderate Republicans the power even a small group could have over the Senate if they were independent of the Republican Overlords.  If only they could drop the GOP and form their own, centrist party, along with a few of the more republicanny democrats.  Voila, there IS no more majority party, and everybody has to work with THEM if they want to get something done.  a group of 7 to 10 out of the total 100 senator, but they'd be a powerful voting group that both parties would have to court.
    •  And people don't want Lawyers in the Seante.... (none)
      Only an unethical Doctor would bother undertaking such an unnecesary operation.  Is the taxpayer picking up the tab on this one?

      A good trial lawyer never asks a question he doesn't already know the answer too (in a public forum).

  •  Heh! (4.00)
    Somebody pass the popcorn!

    This business will get out of control. It will get out of control, and we'll be lucky to live through it.

    by Omar on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:34:51 PM PDT

  •  Good Lord (4.00)
    If Frist does this, it (predictably) fails, and he then tries to drop the nuke in spite of the deal, we really will have the best possible post-deal outcome.  Frist will very publicly go down in flames, the far-right will be neutered on judicial nominations, and we'll get to see if the 7 GOPers are worthy of some measure of trust.

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. --George Bernard Shaw

    by Categorically Imperative on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:35:39 PM PDT

    •  Oops (none)
      That's supposed to be Frist Dobson.

      The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. --George Bernard Shaw

      by Categorically Imperative on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:36:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you got it (4.00)
        Twice.

        I swear, Frist may be a closet Dem.

        The SCOTUS is Extraordinary.

        by Armando on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:38:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ha! (4.00)
          I have no idea what the hell Frist is possibly thinking (assuming he goes through with this).  The Dems couldn't hope for anything more at this point.  The only answer that suggests itself is that he's much further in hock to Dobson that I'd thought before.

          The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. --George Bernard Shaw

          by Categorically Imperative on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:45:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I hope you're right (none)
          But I'm inclined to think that the deal-makers will figure that internecine shredding will only wound the lot of them and will meekly fall into line.  Have the Republicans not shown themselves extraordinarily disciplined hitherto?

          "The state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." - Pierre Trudeau

          by fishhead on Tue May 24, 2005 at 05:37:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Not so sure (none)
      If the nuke option is taken, the Dems will paralyze the Senate.

      Paralyzing the Senate means paralyzing Congress.

      That means the Presidency will be the only effective political arm of government.

      That means rule by decree.

      Perhaps Frist has no problem with that.

      Perhaps Bush does not, either.

      These guys are playing not to save the Republic, but to end it.

      Get the word out.

      I hate people who treat religion as if it were some kind of god.

      by cskendrick on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:33:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Please...please....let (4.00)
    Santorium go down the drain with Frist (and when I say Frist, I mean Dobson). I read on another Diary that someone says Spector is voting NO on Owens...I keep hearing all these rumors. Also, that one of the Big Three will be defeated. Is this BS or does anyone have an update. Frist is gettin a big ole whoopin from Dobson as I type this. "Say Uncle, Doctor!!".. *"Who's your Daddy!"

    *We live in a Nation of LAWS* 11th Circuit

    by Chamonix on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:35:42 PM PDT

  •  One thing to consider (none)
    I understand Frist has to live up to Dobson's rhetoric, but doesn't he realize this is politically very dangerous? This would basically expose divisions within the GOP if he files for cloture and the motion fails. Why would anybody do that purposely!?

    Mikhail Khaimov San Francisco, CA

    by Tsarrio on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:38:46 PM PDT

  •  Frist may file for cloture (none)
    and lose, presumably, but he can't attempt the nuclear option with the 7 R's already pledged to vote against it.

    The nuclear option can only be invoked once.  If it fails, the effect is that a majority of the Senate has ruled that a judicial filibuster is consistent with Senate norms and traditions.  That's a precedent that you can't simply undo in a week after you've twisted some arms.

    •  I wouldn't go so far (none)
      Even if they explicitly vote today that the filibuster rules apply to judicial nominations, all that will be required in the future is for Frist to ask Cheney whether filibuster rules apply to judicial nominations and for Cheney to say "no".  The precedent is irrelevant - it only depends on what Cheney says.
      •  No, this is completely wrong (none)
        The Senate, by simple majority vote, can (and will) overrule Cheney.

        'Republicans'? Y'mean Privatizing, Downsizing, Court-Packing, Red Ink Republicans?

        by RonK Seattle on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:50:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Today, yes (none)
          Today, yes they will overrule Cheney.  In the future, I wouldn't be so sure.
          •  That's my point (none)
            When they overrule Cheney, the question will be "is a judicial filibuster contrary to the tradition of the Senate?"  Once they set a precedent by acknowledging that filibusters ARE consistent with tradition, they can't just change their minds a week later because the Democrats got more obstructionist.

            At least for purposes of the present Congress, it's really hard to envision the trigger being pulled more than once.  They simply wouldn't have any coherent basis for it.

            •  They can go nuclear any time (none)
              ... but only by ignoring Senate rules and precedents (same as it was yesterday, same as it will be tomorrow).

              See Byrd's Turnip Truck speech.

              'Republicans'? Y'mean Privatizing, Downsizing, Court-Packing, Red Ink Republicans?

              by RonK Seattle on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:13:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  But (none)
                To go nuclear, they have to pretend that judicial filibusters are inconsistent with Senate tradition.

                Reinventing history like that is nothing new for these guys - but they cannot vote NO, judicial filibusters are part of Senate tradition, and then turn around next week and say YES, judicial filibusters are unheard of.  I mean, of course they "can," but it's significantly less supportable than doing it just once.

            •  That's _my_ point (none)
              Precedent schmecedent.  The value of a vote this week acknowledging that filibusters are consistent with tradition is only as good as the level to which next week's Republicans are willing to care.
    •  That's the key (4.00)
      Part of what is holding the Democrats in place here is the implied threat that if they break the deal the Republicans could invoke the nuclear option in the future.

      If a nuclear option vote is forced through Frist's maneuvering, the 7 dealmaking Republicans must be true to their word and vote against eliminating the filibuster - this is the deal they signed and it would be a political disaster to go back on their word because of something Frist did and not something Democrats did.

      Such a vote would remove all worry about "extraordinary circumstances."  The right would be firmly established.  Free rein.

      "Over time your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face." --Al Swearengen

      by RepublicanTaliban on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:52:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Strange behaviour from Frist (4.00)
    unless i am missing something.

    I really want ot get back to real politics and policy. This Senate Drama is draining and frankly, kinda like the TV Show "Lost" it really never goes anywhere, but can be kinda compulsive.

    Let the Democratic Reformation Begin

    by Pounder on Tue May 24, 2005 at 04:43:26 PM PDT

  •  I wonder (none)
    Was Myers one of the two not mentioned in the actual agreement?  Maybe, if cloture fails, Frist is then going to try to argue that a filibuster is taking place under "extraordinary circumstances"?
  •  1, 2, 3 Strikes, you're out (4.00)
    First, Frist is the one to "break" the deal (even though he isn't a party to it, let the short attention spans work for us for once).

    Second, he'll lose the cloture vote, and since this is one of the nominees who Dems have already filibustered, they don't break the deal (again, even though Reid isn't a party to it anyway).

    Third, if the 7 hold firm, Frist loses the Nuclear Option vote. Strike three.

    Beautiful. Though I would love for Frist to get the R nomination in 08, General Wes would beat him by 20...

  •  Don't forget that the nuclear option is illegal (none)
    Cloture on a rule change requires a two thirds majority of those voting.
    •  Illegal? (none)
      I'm not sure that anything that happens with respect to changing the Senate rules is illegal if a majority of the Senators go along with it.
      •  You have to 67 fucking votes. (none)
        The right-wing fucks have decided to make it 51.

        If Cheney asked the parlimentarian can we legally proceed here, the parlimentarian would say NO, it is against the rules.

        That's why they (Reid and Boxer and others) made such an issue: they have to break the rules to change the rules.

        •  So what happens if they break the rules? (none)
          Constitutionally, no one but the Senate has authority over the Senate's rules. The 2/3 majority is not a constitutional requirement, it is a prior vote of the Senate (long ago). So, what happens if a majority of the Senators vote otherwise? Who knows! I was objecting to the term illegal.
          •  An unseen flaw in the Constitution (none)
            It would be truly amazing if the Founding Fathers had enough foresight to predict something resembling this current situation.  Too bad.  I'd give my right arm to go back in time and add a sentence to the effect of, the House and Senate may each set their own rules, but only with 2/3 vote.
        •  Not illegal (none)
           The Constitution gives the Senate the power to set it's own rules. Right now the rule to change requires 67? 61? anyway they want to change it to 51, unilaterally.
        •  Huh? (none)
          3/5ths.... not 2/3rds.

          BTW, Senate rules are not laws. They are rules of the chamber and are no laws, i.e. they can't be illegal, unless the rule or the breaking of it actually breaks a law (i.e Senate Rule XXVXX says you have to stab a baby in the heart, etc.)

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

          by Lestatdelc on Tue May 24, 2005 at 11:50:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  If illegal why didn't Dems stand their ground? n/t (none)
  •  This is good. (none)
    First we are seen to uphold our side of the deal - we let Owen through. Next move is to see if the republicans uphold THEIR side of the deal. If not, at least we only let ONE of the three judges through before it goes down, not all three of them.
  •  This is the best... (4.00)
    I just can't imagine what Frist is thinking here.  Wouldn't it have been smarter to start with one of the nominees NOT expressly mentioned in the agreement?  Then he could whine about how the vote to prevent cloture was not based on extraordinary circumstances.  As it is, he's giving the Dems. a completely free pass because it was essentially agreed that Myers could be filibustered.  So Frist is willing to wage an all out civil war for the party in front of us (without us having to do anything)?  Is it Christmas?  Dobson must hate McCain more than he hates the Democrats at this point for this to be happening.
  •  While We Would Like to See Frist Crash and Burn (4.00)
    That is hardly going to solve our problems. The repugs will replace him with yet another wingnut. Better to castrate him and leave him in charge of their caucus. Would we prefer a nutcake like Brownback? How about a little man on dog action? It could be even worse than Frist. Let him stay, weakened, we can whack him like a pinata.

    A democracy can die of too many lies. - Bill Moyers

    by easong on Tue May 24, 2005 at 05:12:14 PM PDT

  •  A Loon (none)
    NPR played tape of Frist tonight threatening to use his fucken "constitutional option" in the future.  He sounded irrational.  Glad he never did any surgery on anyone I know.

    Already contacted my Senator and asked him to reject Frists' (aka Mullah Dobson's bitch) extremist behavior.  

  •  Guess we will find out if that 'deal' (4.00)
    was indeed written on toilet paper or not.

    cheers,

    Mitch Gore

    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

    by Lestatdelc on Tue May 24, 2005 at 05:26:51 PM PDT

  •  meanwhile... (4.00)
    Dr. Frist just ordered life support and tube feeding for Chief Justice Rehnquist..the Chief is objecting of course, but Frist is insisting....
  •  Heads Up - Dobson on Faux News 9PM (none)
    Dr. Dobson to Discuss Judicial Nominations on Hannity & Colmes
    from Family.org

    Dr. James Dobson, founder and Chairman of the Board of Focus on the Family, is scheduled to appear Tuesday, May 24, on Fox News' "Hannity & Colmes." They are scheduled to discuss judicial nominations, senate filibusters and the recent, controversial compromise between Democrats and Republicans concerning up-or-down votes on judicial nominations.

    "Hannity & Colmes" airs at 9 p.m. Eastern on Fox News

  •  Bolton tomorrow (none)
    Why would they drop the judges and move on to Bolton?
    •  Well, let's see.... (none)
      Bolton is filibustered, Frist calls for cloture, cloture fails and Frist pulls the Nuclear grenade-pin, only this time Cheney rules on filibusters on all presidential nominations.  Since the deal was specifically for Judicial filibusters, he uses that as a way to work around it, and strongarms the 7 republicans to back up the VP's ruling.  Voila, not only are the judicial nominations unfilibusterable, but no presidential nomination can be filibustered.

      Could this be a back-door betrayal?

  •  If the 7 GOP deal makers (none)
    stick to the deal will Frist's maneuver do any good? He won't get cloture and he won't get the votes he needs to eliminate the fillibuster, so isn't this just an empty gesture?
    •  Another thing (none)
      This is another thing: those 7 Republicans said they agree that all is on the table (including fillibustering) for these other judges like Myers,not listed in the agreement - i.e. they don't get up or down votes. So, fillibustering is on the table if Democrats consider Myers too extreme. And Harry Saad I believe his name is too. They will be fillibustered and if Fristfuckface tries to invoke the nuclear option, they will side with the Democrats - and that will be the votes they need to stop it(Democrats only need 6).
    •  It's more than an empty gesture (none)
      If it plays out, the nuclear option vote is called, and it loses.  The GOP 7 just gave their word, signed their names, reaped the positive press.  

      If Frist forges ahead he is telling the GOP 7, in the words of Calamity Jane, "Be fucked!"  These are prideful people with egos.  They're not going to take that shit from him and suddenly tow the line.

      Remember, the deal is held together entirely on the judgment of the GOP 7.  We can debate what "extraordinary circumstances" means all we want, but all it means is whatever the GOP 7 think it means.  That's the only interpretation that matters.

      But not if they're already on record voting down the nuclear option.  If the threat of reviving the nuclear option in the future is gone, Democrats needn't give a crap what the GOP 7's interpretation of "extraordinary circumstances" is.  

      Basically if Frist forges ahead with his "empty gesture" then the deal suddenly changes to:

      GOP gets: two or three of Owen, Brown and Pryor get confirmed
      Dems get: freedom from any hassles on filibustering as long as the 7 GOP signatories matter to the balance of Senate caucusing, which is at least 2007.

      "Over time your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face." --Al Swearengen

      by RepublicanTaliban on Tue May 24, 2005 at 07:12:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It must be out there, but could (none)
    someone remind us of Sen Frist's personal faith? Is he born again, or a member of a more mainline Presbytarian or Catholic church? Is he a member of any church at all? Are there instances where he has spoken about his faith, how it helps him with his daily life? Has he raised his children to be God fearing?

    I ask because if he isn't terribly religous, then perhaps we should all know this.

  •  Dick Durbin already said this: (none)
    Dick Durbin already said this today on the Randi Rhodes Show: If they want to test the Democrats, go ahead. They can do whatever they wish with Myers, including fillibustering, since he is not in the deal. If they want to test them, he will fillibuster. By not being listedin the agreement, they're allowed to.

    Graham and Durbin have also incidated Janice Rodgers Brown may not win confirmation.

    He can try, but he will fail. In the end, he will just look like a sore loser and the American public will see that..IF we paint him like that.

  •  Did Inouye break the deal? (none)
    A technicality that I just noticed: Inouye didn't vote on the motion for cloture on Priscilla Owen.  Part of the deal was that all 7 of them would vote for cloture.  Not voting is as good as a "no" vote, isn't it?
  •  Don't think so... (none)
    They have to have at least 50 yes votes (if the VP invokes the tie-breaker) to invoke cloture.  A non-vote doesn't add to that total.
    •  60 (none)
      First of all, they need 60 votes to inovke cloture.  And part of the deal was that the 7 democrats, Inouye included, would vote for cloture.  Since he didn't vote, he was essentially one of the 40 Senators not votiing for cloture, thus breaking the deal.
  •  I don't have a clue what you all are talking about (none)
    I don't understand why everybody is saying Frist is breaking the deal, or even creating the appearance of breaking the deal. My problem isn't even that the deal isn't Frist's to break - my problem is that Myers was never a part of the deal to begin with. I mean, isn't it the expected course of events, under the deal, that Frist would go forward calling for cloture on Myers and Saad, and the Dems will then filibuster these two, as Harry Reid said last night they would?

    What am I missing? If there is a PR opportunity here for us to paint Frist as a deal breaker then I'll be all for exploiting it. But can somebody help me seeing that opportunity?

    If you cannot convince them, confuse them. Harry S. Truman

    by brainwave on Tue May 24, 2005 at 05:58:02 PM PDT

    •  It's not so much that he's a deal breaker (none)
      as much as he's going to be forcing members of his own party to filibuster, which is probably not a pc thing to do, as well as it indicates there is a split in the party, and Frist is part of the extreme. Painting Frist as extreme? Good pr for the Democrats. Painting the right-wing as so extreme that even a lot of Republicans are not comfrotable with it? Great pr.
      •  Forcing GOPers to filibuster? (none)
        Why? 41 votes is all it takes to deny cloture. As long as the Dems stick together, no rethug votes are needed for a filibuster. And if they don't, I don't see why any GOPer would step in and rescue them.

        If you cannot convince them, confuse them. Harry S. Truman

        by brainwave on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:05:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Frist forces them to vote against nuclear option (none)
          Correct that Democrats can prevent cloture, but if Frist then pulls the nuclear trigger -- and how can he not do that and face master Dobson -- then he forces the dealmakers to vote against it.  After that, its Civil War.  Be certain that the Republicans in that deal will NOT like being forced to go against the party.  If Frist wanted to avoid that he would simply never bring them up for a vote.  As it is, he wants the bloodletting to begin.
          •  Yeah, I get that part (none)
            If Frist goes nuke on Myers then he'd force the seven moderate renegates to vote against him. Let's see whether that'll happen. It's a nice conundrum for the cat killer - if he doesn't at least try to nuke the filibuster, he'll look like a traitor to the religious right. And if he does he'll ram a wedge into his own party and force his own defeat. Lovely!

            Of course, as somebody else noted upthread, Frist will claim the filibuster of Myers is in itself a deal breaker, since Mysers is not anymore "extreme" than Owens or Brown (that's what I imagine Frist will say!). At which point all the pressure is back on the GOP renegates.

            If you cannot convince them, confuse them. Harry S. Truman

            by brainwave on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:37:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  But (none)
            whether he will do that second thing -- seek the ruling that cloture requires only 51 (not 60) votes -- remains to be seen.  He may seek a vote on cloture and when it fails at 60, simply stop.  May depend on what the Puppet Masters require.
            •  That would be strange to me... (none)
              Can't see how he could accept a filibuster without invoking the nuclear option.  Religious right would go apoplectic.  Also, I don't see how filibuster of Myers could ever be "extraordinary."  Maybe I haven't spent enough time with the text of the Agreement but I got the sense that the fact that he was named in it was an admission that he was being thrown overboard.  Am I wrong on that?
  •  Something tells me (none)
    This is too bad politically for Republicans for Frist not to get told to back off. Stay tuned tomorrow, bet he changes his tune.
  •  Wait a minute (none)
    I will be glad to be proved wrong. Even if it is OK to filibuster Myers, one would have to file for cloture at some point to get the Senate moving again?

    "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, who am I? And if not now, when?" (Hillel was a liberal)

    by 4jkb4ia on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:10:55 PM PDT

    •  OK, I get it (none)
      The idea is to tie up the nominee with filibustering so that there is no hope for him.

      "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, who am I? And if not now, when?" (Hillel was a liberal)

      by 4jkb4ia on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:15:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Howard Fineman (none)
    is saying the repugs are in the middle of a food fight.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7967628/

    "Do Iraqi children scream when the bombs fall if no one is in the White House to hear them?" Bernard Chazelle

    by dmac on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:14:40 PM PDT

  •  Frist said it on CSPAN today... (none)
    Frist took to the Senate floor today and very clearly stated he would not hesitate to use the 'Constitutional Option' should the Dems continue to filibuster. Reid immediately got up after Frist, stated the nuclear option was off the table and would not come back in his lifetime, and also stated he didn't understand why it was still being discussed.

    This is not over by a longshot, and while I was one of those yesterday thinking we had won little - based on the exchange today between Frist-hole and Reid this may turn out to be way better than I could have imagined!

  •  So Remind me, what is this so-called Deal? (4.00)
    • One corporate/fundie rubber stamp judge?
    • Three corporate/fundie rubber stamp judges?
    • five corporate/fundie rubber stamp judges?
    or ten corporate/fundie rubber stamp judges?

    After watching currrent Frist aide/spokesperson/Nukular Option  strategist  Manuel Miranda [aka former Frist aid forced to resign in late 2003-early 2004 for hacking into Democrat Senate email server and stealing confidential Democratic Senate communications]  today on MSNBC after cloture vote crowing about no deal with Dems in Frist's mind, I am inclined to believe Dems have fallen for the old Good GOP/Bad GOP scam; big time.

     

  •  My friends (4.00)
    if any of you paid attention to my posts last evening, you will know I was downcast over the compromise.  Frist's calling for cloture, however, seems to me the dumbest thing he could do.  If Frist does this, the GOoper senators in on the compromise will vote our way, and that will seal the door nicely on the nuclear option.

    From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.

    by DCDemocrat on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:29:22 PM PDT

  •  Good for Frist (none)
    assuming Dobson doesn't put dead horse heads in the beds of the seven Republican Senators... we get to kick Frist's butt again only this time so thoroughly and publicly that he resigns his leadership position and heads home to Tennesee to open a small country Doctor's office for sick kittens.

    "We have the power. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we've decided to use it." Posted by Jeremey*in*MS at February 3, 2005 01:59 PM

    by Andrew C White on Tue May 24, 2005 at 06:43:41 PM PDT

  •  Rush Said Today (none)
    that Frist called him this morning to emphasize that he, Frist, was not a party to the deal, was not bound to follow it.

    Rush went on to talk about the ways they pull the Nuclear Option out again.

    All they really need to give it a try is Frist and Cheney holding court one day.  However, they'd be mad to try without getting the required votes... mind you they could do that much more quietly than they did this time.

    I don't think they'll do it, but not because of The Option Deal, but for the original stronger reason... the minority could make their life hell.

  •  I really hope Frist tries this... (none)
    Getting the vote in the record will make it even harder for them to try to do this again in this session.

    Essentially, we get BOTH the compromise GOP wingnut loss + Dem nuclear option victory if Frist tries this.

    •  I agree, Frist Would Do Us A Big Favor... (none)
      if he goes for a formal cloture on Myers.  Not only would he lose such a vote thanks to the 6 Repubs. who are commited by the deal to vote with the Dems., but he and the radical Repugs. would be seen as the side who first tried to break the deal.  I think this attempt should be stored in the Dem. memory bank for use down the road.  By that I mean, that at some point Bush will inevitably send up a radical nominee who we will consider as qualifying for "extrordinary circumstances" worthy of a fillibuster, but who the radical Repugs. won't, declaring that we are trying to break the deal.  Their cry of foul want go as far if we can point out that they were the ones who originally attempted to break the cease fire.  
  •  What a collection of wrongness. (3.90)
    It's hard to know where to start:

    1. Frist (and by Frist I mean Satan) is not breaking the deal.  Nothing in the deal binds him to do or not do anything.  The deal applies only to the fourteen signatories.  It was created specifically to handle the case in which Frist (and by Frist I mean Beezlebub) does attempt to invoke the nuclear option.

    2. The Myers (and by Myers, I mean Ken Lay) nomination has been sent to the Senate and must be disposed of in some way or another.  Frist's (and by Frist I mean a dead armadillo in the middle of the road) interest is probably to clear these all as quickly as possible.

    3. The deal does not require the Republicans (and by Republicans I mean crack whores) to vote against cloture.  It only requires them to vote against the nuclear option if the Democrats refuse to grant cloture on the nomination debate.  Even if Frist (and by Frist I mean the vulture pecking at the guts of that dead armadillo) does move for cloture on the debate and loses, he is not required to attempt the nuclear option (and probably won't at this juncture, since it might be more effective for him in the future if there is a more "debatable" filibuster against another judge or SCOTUS nominee).

    4. Frist (and by Frist I mean the particularly nasty booger just far enough up my nostril that I can't get it out with a pipecleaner) can rabbit on all he wants about bringing back the nuclear option but it has no effect on the seven compromise Republicans (and by compromise Republicans I mean prospective Democratic pickups).  

    George W. Bush -- It's mourning in America.

    by LarryInNYC on Tue May 24, 2005 at 07:46:32 PM PDT

    •  LOL (& by LOL I mean you get a 4). (n/t) (none)

      You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one...

      by imagine on Tue May 24, 2005 at 08:08:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Imagine beat me to it (none)
      Honestly I have no idea about how it all goes down (I hope the optimists are right). But I can't resist giving you a four for making me laugh so hard about this one.
    •  Not sure I agree (none)
      I'm not an expert, but as the majority leader, Frist can control the agenda and I don't think he has any obligation to bring the nomination to a vote.  He could let it sit through the end of the Congress. If he respected the compromise, that is what he would do.  I think he wants to vote on the nuclear option (he can't just let a filibuster succeed) and "embarass" the compromising Republicans.  Seems like a real opportunity to watch them turn on themselves.
  •  Wait another minute (none)
    Even if Frist calls for cloture, there are 45 Democrats who can vote it down, and the Republicans party to the deal can't say a thing about it, because they agreed to it. So this is not a crisis.

    "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, who am I? And if not now, when?" (Hillel was a liberal)

    by 4jkb4ia on Tue May 24, 2005 at 08:06:22 PM PDT

  •  I can't stop the tears of laughter (none)
    from the new (at least to me) Frist Dobson acronym (AWISFIMD) and "cabbagehead".

    Oh, for the Love of Harry -- pull it Frist(AWISFIMD)!!!!!

    What difference does it make ... whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? Gandhi

    by Intellectually Curious on Tue May 24, 2005 at 08:21:43 PM PDT

  •  Republican Hubris: Our Best Friend (none)
    I want to believe this is true, but I simply can't accept that the White House would let him make such an ass out of himself -- and thus the whole radical right. And certainly Frist wouldn't mind a little Bush endorsement come late 2007.

    But here's hoping for hubris!

    GOP = Grandstanding Old Party

    by Addison on Tue May 24, 2005 at 08:31:19 PM PDT

  •  lousy deal (none)
    for Democrats, but if Frist makes idiot of himself and senators like Santorum over it, it becomes a nice deal.

    Americans often have rather formalistic approach to the law and rules.  For example, "not guilty" is often used synonymously with "not found guilty".  In this case, if Frist and Cheney force a vote on the nuclear issue and they loose, than the relatively clueless moderate voters will learn that Frist and Cheney attempted to break the rules.  Would they win, it would be a bit arcane whether they broke the rules, but would they loose, it would be rather clear.

    Frist sits in a runaway train and either he pulls the breaks or he will be buried by a train wreck.

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