MATTHEWS: Good evening, I'm Chris Matthews. Tonight on Hardball, we reopen the great scientific debate. . . is the Earth flat or round? Our guests include Dr. Max Cranium, professor of astrophysics at the California Institute of Technology, and Ken Mehlman, chairman of the Republican National Committee.
MEHLMAN: Thanks for having me, Chris.
CRANIUM: Did you say this was a great scientific debate? There's nothing to debate about the shape of the Earth, Chris.
MATTHEWS: Now professor, you know how my show works. Every argument has two sides, and we're obligated to hear them both.
CRANIUM: This isn't a debate. This isn't an argument. The Earth is round.
MEHLMAN: Chris, if I could please get a word in. The professor is indeed entitled to his opinion. He says the Earth is round. But I, the Administration, and millions of George W. Bush's supporters have always believed the Earth to be flat - and we deserve to be heard on this issue. This is the United States of America. Does the professor believe in freedom of speech, or is that just something reserved for academics at elite liberal universities?
CRANIUM: Chris, I have a PhD in astrophysics. I've worked for 20 years in this field. I consult at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory here in Pasadena. I can speak on this issue with some authority. May I ask what Mr. Mehlman's scientific credentials are?
MATTHEWS: Fair question. Ken?
MEHLMAN: I built a mini-volcano out of clay, baking soda and vinegar when I was a sophomore in high school.
CRANIUM: Chris, let me cut to the chase. The Earth is round. I can show you satellite photos. We've taken pictures of the Earth from the moon. We have astronauts orbiting the Earth in the international space station. Mr. Mehlman can call them up and ask them if the Earth is round or flat.
MATTHEWS: Ken, your response?
MEHLMAN: I'll respond to that specifically in a minute, Chris. But I first want to respond to something the professor said earlier. He said he consults for a laboratory in Pasadena.
MATTHEWS: Yes, he did. Please go on.
MEHLMAN: Pasadena is very close to Hollywood -- home of Barbra Streisand, Martin Sheen and Rob Reiner. That tells you a little bit about where the professor is coming from.
CRANIUM: Chris, this line of reasoning is utterly ridiculous.
MEHLMAN: Call it what you will, professor, but this is why George W. Bush was re-elected and the American people kept both the House and Senate in Republican hands in 2004. We embrace American values. The professor embraces Hollywood values.
MATTHEWS: Professor, how about that? Do you deny that Pasadena is close to Hollywood?
CRANIUM: The distance between Pasadena and Hollywood has nothing to do with anything, Chris. We're talking about science here. The Earth is round. That's a fact. And no amount of political spin can change that. Are you telling me that the three of us can't agree on something so basic? Most second-graders can grasp this concept. It boggles the mind that we're even having this discussion.
MEHLMAN: Chris, I'm offended at the reference to second-graders. You see, this is the problem with liberals. They trot out their facts and books and college educations and scientific journals and think they're so superior to the rest of us when it comes to these issues. Let me tell you what else is at the heart of the professor's round-Earth crusade.
MATTHEWS: Please do.
MEHLMAN: Chris, millions of Christian conservatives -- particularly in the South and in rural Kansas -- subscribe to the belief that the Earth is flat. What the professor is doing here is launching an all-out assault on people of faith. Even President Bush believes the Earth is flat. To disagree with the President on such a significant issue -- during a time of war no less -- is giving aid and comfort to the enemy and emboldening the terrorists who want to destroy this great nation.
CRANIUM: How in the world can you connect terrorism with any of this? Chris, Mr. Mehlman has made so many absurd accusations tonight. As the host of this show, I think you have some obligation to set the record straight.
MATTHEWS: Now professor, the Democrats talk all the time about how important it is to have a balanced media that reflects all viewpoints. You don't get this both ways.
CRANIUM: Chris, there aren't multiple "viewpoints" on the shape of the Earth. This isn't a debate. Trying to decide if Sandy Koufax was a better pitcher than Roger Clemens? Now that's a debate. Trying to decide if Elvis Presley was better than the Beatles? Now that's a debate. But this isn't a debate. The Earth is round. That's a fact. Daniel Patrick Moynihan always said that people are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. And the facts here aren't in dispute.
MATTHEWS: Well hang on there, professor. Because we received a fax earlier that simply can't be ignored. It's from a group calling itself Flat Earth Dwellers for Truth. They've included in their fax a picture of a high school football field in Amarillo, Texas. We'll put it up and you can have a look at it on your monitor. Can you see it, professor?
CRANIUM: I can see it, Chris.
MATTHEWS: Okay, look closely at the football field. Does that field look round or flat to you?
CRANIUM: It looks flat, Chris.
MEHLMAN: Chris, the professor has just flip-flopped on this issue. Liberals do this all the time and that's why the American people don't want them in leadership positions. First, the professor says the Earth is round. Then, he says this football field is flat. George W. Bush has been consistent on his position that the Earth is flat. And the American people have shown they respect his courage and not being a liberal flip-flopper like the professor.
CRANIUM: Chris, a flat football field isn't inconsistent with a round Earth. By the way, just who are the Flat Earth Dwellers for Truth? I'm confident in saying this isn't a recognized scientific organization, and from that fax it sounds like they don't have much to say.
MATTHEWS: Professor, this group has a web site, a spokesperson, a logo. . . and I hear t-shirts are on the way. That alone gives them relevance and I think it's very disappointing that you would dismiss them so easily. Why don't they have a right to be part of this debate?
CRANIUM: Again, it's not a debate Chris. The Earth is round. That's a fact. This isn't a debate among intelligent people who know science. I mean, have any of you ever seen a globe?
MEHLMAN: Chris, this is so pathetic. The professor comes on national television and offers nothing but insults and smears for anyone who disagrees with him. He trashes people of faith. I talked earlier about Hollywood values versus American values. And to think that our college campuses are being inundated with this mentality. If the professor hates America so much, I suggest he set up some fancy-pants college in France and leave the education of American children in the hands of those who actually love America.
CRANIUM: Chris, I have to respond. . .
MATTHEWS: Sadly, it'll have to wait for another time, professor. We're out of time. An interesting debate that's sure to continue. Thank you both for being here. Coming up next, Matt Drudge's shocking allegation that Teresa Heinz Kerry once dated Saddam Hussein. You're watching Hardball on MSGOP.