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What Golden Goose, you ask?

The Golden Goose that dumped most of the party monies into the pockets of Clinton-era consultants under Terry McAuliffe. And the same Golden Goose that bought large donors access to party bigwigs.

"Howard isn't playng our game... Let's all rip Howard Dean!"

According to a story in the June 7 Salon by David Paul Kuhn, Dean has broken every record as a fundraiser in his short tenure at the DNC:

Despite the polemics that were sure to follow Dean's assuming the role of party chairman, his primary duty is to raise money. Though the Republican National Committee has raised money at a rate of 2-to-1 on Democrats in the first quarter of 2005, Dean himself has been effective. In the first four months, under Dean's stewardship, the DNC has raised nearly $19 million -- more than under any other Democratic chairman in an off-election year.

But guess what?  He isn't raising the green from the right people, apparently...


You'd have a hard time believing that the DNC set records for an off-year quarter given the shots Howard Dean has taken of late from insiders and "anonymous Democratic sources."  (See Dave Weigel's diary highlighting a new article from The Hill under the headline, Fundraisers jilt Dean.)

And this weekend, Joe Biden and John Edwards fired shots at Dean on the Sunday morning shows, needless exchanges well-documented here by many including in my own diary.

What we are witnessing is a coordinated effort by recent Democratic Party "insiders" to undercut Dean's chairmanship.  Yep, the same folks who took on-the-record and anonymous potshots at Kerry and his campaign are now running an organized effort to get Dean dumped from the party chairmanship.

How ironic.  Biden, Lieberman, Carville and numerous "anonymous party sources" spent the better part of the general election campaign undercutting Kerry and his campaign/campaign staff.

Oh, if only these (so-called) fellow Democrats had been as concerned about beatng Bush as they seem to be about crushing Dean...

The Hill article points out that the Clinton-era big donors feel dissed by Dean.  (Thus, Al From's and Carville's endless harangues.)  Their complaints are as whiny as "not getting enough face time."

And one can rest assured that the Beltway consultants and sycophants are not at all happy that their high-paying clients can't get long audiences with the party chairman -- who has been busy meeting with state-level party officials in an effort to rebuild the party from the ground up.

So while the Beltway insiders attempt to take Dean down, his popularity at the state level continues to rise, according to a June 2 article on AlterNet:

It's no wonder then that Dean has avoided the national spotlight, with criticism being launched at him from all sides and media-jealous Democratic colleagues muttering about his inability to stay "on message." But perhaps the main reason that Dean's been AWOL from the Sunday talk show circuit is that he's been busy traveling the country, learning about the state of politics at the local level. Since he began as chair on February 12, Dean's priorities have been set less on cultivating a perfect, all-encompassing message for the Democratic Party and more on "showing up."

In the last three months, Dean has visited 18 states, where he has met with Democratic officials at the state and local level and promoted his plan to build the party infrastructure from the bottom up. Unlike McAuliffe, Dean isn't arriving in limousines; he's flying coach, paying for his own bus tickets, and carrying his own bags. And if you listen to the people that Dean has spent most of his tenure thus far speaking to -- people in some of the Reddest states of the country -- Dean is doing a fantastic job.

Dean ran for chair on a platform promising to radically depart from the previous DNC strategy of targeting specific states during crucial election cycles. His plan was to focus on all fifty states, cultivate candidates at all levels of government, and get paid grassroots organizers on the ground immediately. "I'm not much of a Zen person," he remarked upon accepting chairmanship, "But I've found that the path to power, oddly enough, is to trust others with it. That means putting the power where the voters are." Judging from my conversations with state and county leaders, Dean is doing exactly that.

Dean's "Red, White, and Blue" tour through the South was initially met with trepidation, not only by Democratic insiders, but also state party leaders who feared Dean's aggressive "northeastern liberal" style wouldn't fly in their states. When Dean showed up, for the most part, those impressions were shattered. The Dean they saw was not a firebrand, but a pragmatic leader determined to build the nuts and bolts of the party. "I was nervous before Governor Dean came to town," said Gabe Holmstrom, Executive Director of the Arkansas Democratic Party, "but I found that Dean had a lot of insight into local politics and a real interest in taking a much more aggressive role in organizing from the grassroots. His commitment was clear." Party leaders described crowds at Dean events in their states as "electric," "ecstatic," and "very excited." Nick Casey, West Virginia's State Chair told me people were driving in "three hours from the south, five hours from the east, just to hear him."

After years of being virtually ignored by the DNC, state party leaders are extremely enthusiastic about Dean's state partnership program. On April 8, Dean announced the first round of his investments in the states, half a million dollars that would be spread among the state parties of Missouri, North Carolina, North Dakota, and West Virginia. Since then, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, Wyoming, and Kansas have received DNC funding. In Nebraska-which received ten times the $12,000 they got from Terry McAuliffe last year-the state party is putting organizers in all 93 of their counties. In West Virginia, Casey is excited about using the additional funds to recruit teachers to serve as mentors for Young Democrats clubs at high schools, and energizing long-stagnant groups like the Federation of Democratic Women. "In 2004, we started campaign after the May primary," says Casey. "We just started our coordinating campaign a month ago for 2008. That makes a hell of a difference."

Finally, I note that Dean's supposed controversial comments have all been directed at Republicans.  Note that his detractors spend more time bashing Dems than they do bashing the criminals curremtly occupying the Executive branch and the majority of the Legislative branch.

NOTE TO STATE PARTY OFFICIALS: The time to back up Dean is NOW!  Don't wait, don't hesitate.  The insiders are seeking to take him down because he threatens their gravy train.

Imagine the audacity of a Democratic Party chairman deciding that the states are more qualifed to spend party monies than the consultants in Washington.

What a bastard.

And imagine a party chairmen dissing the heavy-duty corporate donors of the Clinton era...

The nerve!

Now the Sunday "Dean rips" by Biden and Edwards have some context.  Biden, the same guy who undercut the Kerry campaighn at every opportunity on the Sunday morning shows during the run-up to the general, now is training his sights on Dean.

Figures.  He kisses Alberto Gonzales' ass but takes swipes at our standard bearer in the general election and our new party chairman.

Oh, if only some on our side were as focused on taking down the real enemy...

Originally posted to Bob Johnson on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:18 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  perfect. (4.00)
    thanks for writing my thoughts down better than i could have. your mind reading powers are a marvel.


    "after the Rapture, we get all their shit"

    check out Daily Gotham, yo!

    by lipris on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:22:06 PM PDT

      •  For the good of the party -Unrecommend this diary! (1.60)
        For all of you bashing Edwards- you make no sense. How can you on one hand know that Dean was taken out of context by the SCLM and then turn around and not believe Edwards' statement that he himself was taken out of context and was referring to a hypothetical a reporter provided? Come on guys! Wake up. This isn't the first time the media has tried to create a conflict within our party that simply wasn't there and you're just stirring it up. For the good of the party unrecommend this diary!

        Progressives believe in a strong, effective American government: balancing budgets, empowering people, & helping the least among us.

        by BrianVA on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 02:28:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Edwards (none)
          It was good that Edwards clarified that he agrees with Dean's focus, and bashed the attempts by the media to portray it as a big fight.

          Nevertheless, it would serve Edwards in the future not to step into messes like this one. If the media try to get him to attack a Dean statement, he should first demand to hear the context. In this case, the context was Dean talking about people being forced to wait eight hours to vote.

          It was a mistake for Dean to use the phrasing he did, and it was also a mistake for Edwards to allow the subject to become Dean-bashing instead of electoral reform. "I'm sure Howard meant to say ..." is a good way to get the topic on to what you want to talk about. While most Republicans work for a living, for example, those who've benefitted the most from the Bush tax cuts don't.

          •  AGREE! (none)
            Edwards needs to stay above the fray and allow Dean to be the hatchet man. Dean is free to roast all the weenies he wants in this job.

            I was surprised and extremely pleased when he stooped to accept the position in the first place. An extremely selfless act for a big name politician, and a very smart one.

            Now I am happy to see he is getting after his new duties with such relish.

  •  Biden... (3.96)
    Is a strutting popinjay, to paraphrase George Galloway.

    He may not mind looking ridiculous, but does he have to drag Howard Dean into his media wankfest, when Dean's trying to do some serious work?

    I think it's getting clearer and clearer that the Dem's REAL farm team is going to come from the state level:  governors and state legislators, etc.  They don't have that craving to be a Beltway Kool Kid -- at least not yet.

    Thanks for keeping on this.

    •  John Edwards (3.95)
      I'm not sure whom Edwards is trying to impress by bashing Gov. Dean. He's trying to have his cake(with the working class) and eat it too(with the insider fat-cats).

      Someone please show the "Son-uva-Millworker" the door!

      There is a wisdom of the head, and a wisdom of the heart.-Charles Dickens

      by Ranting Roland on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:36:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yup (4.00)
        I'm not sure whom Edwards is trying to impress by bashing Gov. Dean.

        I was surprised by this, to be honest.  I have mixed feelings about Edwards, but I did see him give an amazing speech in Minnesota last year.  So I thought he was smarter -- and had a little more cool -- than to do something this ham-handed and unproductive.  Very disappointing to see his uber-weasel side.

        He's trying to have his cake(with the working class) and eat it too(with the insider fat-cats).

        I think you hit the nail on the head.  

        •  edwards (4.00)
          all you folks mystified about edwards please read his explanation.

          Politology.US - Politics and Technology in the United States

          by tunesmith on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:03:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There's the Edwards I liked (none)
            Thanks for the link.  
          •  Thanks, tunesmith... (4.00)
            Another bear trap laid by the media who is rfed spun questions by the Rovian machine.

            Goddamn it... When do we get a similar machine?

            Note to Dr. Dean:  We need us one a them fancy message machines that gets in the ear of the media loudmouths!

            If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

            by Bob Johnson on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:08:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  can i suggest an update (4.00)
              to the diary with the link to edwards's statement.

              it's only fair.

              •  Excellent Suggestion! Bob??? (none)
                Bob Johnson? You hoo. Please pay attention.  We need an update to your diary.  Edwards did not bash Dean. That was the corporate media talking, not Edwards. Please update your diary.
                •  Edwards talks out of both sides of his mouth (3.88)
                  can i suggest an update . . . to the diary with the link to edwards's statement.
                  Excellent Suggestion!. . . . Edwards did not bash Dean. That was the corporate media talking, not Edwards. Please update your diary.

                  This is the key thing that Edwards said in that statement

                  I was in Nashville over the weekend, thanking the good people of Tennessee who supported the Democratic presidential ticket this year, when I was asked whether I thought that it was fair to say that people who were Republican hadn't done a good day's work.  Of course, I didn't think so, and I said that.  I don't think our DNC chair, Howard Dean, would put it that way again if asked either.  I disagreed with him, and I said so. 

                  But this is the way it was reported by the AP

                  While discussing the hardship of working Americans standing in long lines to vote, Dean said Thursday, "Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives." Dean said later his comments did not refer to hard-working Americans, but rather to the failure of Republican leadership to address working-class concerns.

                  Responding to Dean's initial remark, Edwards said Dean "is not the spokesman for the party."

                  Dean is "a voice. I don't agree with it," Edwards, a former senator and the Democrats' vice presidential nominee in 2004, said Saturday at a party fundraising dinner in Nashville, Tenn.

                  The "explanation" from Edwards makes it sound like on Saturday he had no idea about the context or the clarification of Dean's already much discussed statement from Thursday and that all he did was disagree with the idea that Republicans are people who have never worked.   The idea that he just didn't know exactly what Dean had said, and the context,  and how he had explained what he meant by it, is not to be taken seriously.

                  Edwards did not just fall off of a Turnip truck.  He knows that when you are presented with what seems to be a wrong statement that is attributed to another important Democrat, and you don't know all the context or background, you just say that, express a bit of skepticism, and go on say something proper about the subject.  But you don't attack other Democrats unless you know exactly what they said and how they explain it. 

                  Edwards' statement seems very slippery.  If he was really caught off guard with an out-of-context Dean quote he would never have called Dean "not the spokesman" and a "voice" (nice turn of phrase that) he does not "agree with".  It seems to me Edwards is talking out of both sides of his mouth.   He is trying to get on some sort of anti-Dean bandwagon in the national media while taking a very different position in the blogosphere.  The first line in a string of negative responses  to Edwards' blog asks the key question

                  So why don't you demand a retraction from the media?

                  The obvious answer is that the media properly reported his statement while it is Edwards who is trying to rewrite it for an activist audience.

                  •  You got a good point there. (4.00)
                    John Edwards?  Are you looking?  DISAPPOINTED!!
                    Well, at least my choices for 2008 have been narrowed down.
                    •  A lesson from Landrieu (4.00)
                      Hardball last night featured most of the gang of 14 Senate compromisers. Tweety gleefully threw the Dean quote at the Dems to incite some Dean dissing. A couple of them went for it, and everyone was tittering about Dean like he's not fit to hang out with the kool kids. When the question went to Mary Landrieu, she ignored the specific quote and started talking about the importance of Dean's main point that people shouldn't have to wait in 8 hour lines to vote. Tweety made one futile attempt to get her to address the specific quote, but she just kept talking about the voting issue until Tweety started talking over her and changed the subject. Biden, Edwards, and all the rest of the Dems should take a lesson from Mary Landrieu.
                      •  I swear (none)
                        I don't even know why they bother going on those things. Unless you follow the script, you get cut. There is no decent reason for them to appear. It just gives false credibility. If no Democrats would go on a show that behaved like that, they would be revealed as the partisan hackery they are, not that the audience would care. It's ridiculous.

                        Why is it so hot in here, and what am I doing in this handbasket?

                        by justme on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 02:35:34 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  and Landrieu is in the right wing (none)
                        of the Democratic party.  One can have a big tent without fist fights inside.

                        Besides, Lanrieu is not an idiot.  She needs to combine White moderate votes with solid Black support.  So how can she show that she understands concerns of the Blacks without alienating Whites?  Voting rights etc. are the perfect issue.  Distancing herself from Dean --- there is just no political capital in it.

                  •  At least (none)
                    The fact that Edwards seems to be altering his statement is at least an indication that he has probably realized that he should not have criticied Dean the way he did.

                    Whether that lesson sticks or not, only time will tell.

                    Signature goes here.

                    by lalawguy on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 08:03:32 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Another bear trap (none)
              Yes, yes, yes.  When will the Dems learn to chuckle, the way that Clinton did when reporters tried that?  Couldn't the Dems just chuckle and turn the question around and say something about the investor class earnings versus wages, etc.  
            •  All the Dems need better message discipline (none)
              Dr. Dean is going to have to be more careful not to mis-speak, given the hostile media environment. And all Democrats are going to have to be careful not to fall for attempts by the media to provoke intra-party conflict. If some other prominent Democrat says something a bit off, find a way to stress areas of agreement, and make sure that whatever does get said advances the cause. If the media tell you that someone said something wild, ask to see the context before flaming. It appears that John Edwards didn't do this the first time out, though he corrected himself later.
          •  perfect (4.00)
            And then the flap arose: A chasm! A split! A revolt!

            Instead, how about: Nonsense!

          •  Edwards got even more off-message (4.00)
            Edwards could have handled his disagreement more tactfully, focusing on the issue Dean raised (voting) and his characterization of the GOP as the party of the well-to-do. He also could have been smart enough not to get baited. The explanation was, overall, pretty good, but if Edwards had parried the question properly it wouldn't have been necessary.

            The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

            by expatjourno on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:28:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  ahhh (4.00)
              I say just let it go, myself.  Edwards is talking to the press all the time.  It was probably just something offhand, and this Dean-hating crap took something out of context that responded to something else out of context, and then put it together with some other crap and slapped a byline on it.

              Politology.US - Politics and Technology in the United States

              by tunesmith on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:35:20 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Absolutely (none)
                Edwards has explained himself pretty well.

                The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

                by expatjourno on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 03:12:58 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  It was a setup (4.00)
              By cnn. The RepublicanNewsNetwork's favorite Candyhack wanted to create another tempest in a teapot. And they even had custom graphics crafted. I actually posted about it in an open thread as it was happening.

              The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed)

              by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 02:51:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I did not know that. (none)

                The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

                by expatjourno on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 03:13:33 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I didnt get it (4.00)
                  til i watched it happening on CNN. I was a bit pissed at edwards at first. (bidens idiocy didnt suprise me). Then i saw crowley and watched CNN spin. You've seen them do it enough to recognise it id bet.

                  The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed)

                  by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 03:18:38 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I didn't even see the interviews . . . (4.00)
                    But when I started reading about them, I could tell it was the same old set-up. Dems need to be prepared to respond to this stuff. Both Biden and Edwards should have said something like "Since I haven't seen Dean's entire speech or talked with him about it, it really wouldn't make sense for me to respond." if the pundit comes back with something like "Are you implying that we're misrespresenting what was said" the response should just be, "Well, if you want to devote your entire show to re-running the speech so we can know what we're talking about, I'd be able to talking usefully about it. But since time doesn't permit that, let's move on to things I can reasonably comment upon."

                    I watched Edwards speech at the Take Back America Conference online and it was great. His response to this manufactured bruhaha is, too. But he and everyone else who genuinely cares about the Democratic Party and the country should know better thant to step into traps like this.

                    I don't consider myself outside of anything. I just consider myself not around . . . Bob Dylan

                    by ponderer on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 04:05:16 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You hit the nail on the head (4.00)
                      Any democrat who has the slightest chance of ever being on the air should be trained in handling the media.

                      Right now the media simply reaches out and grabs who it wishes. And they know where to go to create a controversy.

                      The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed)

                      by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 04:12:56 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  i know edwards can do better on his feet, but (none)
                        handling the media 101.  from two masters:
                        clintonesque--thoughtful answers.  ask them to repeat the quote that they want you to respond to verbatim and with context, so that the response is thoughtful.
                        reaganesque--use self-deprecating humor.
            •  what an opportunity! (4.00)
              how 'bout if biden, edwards and frank get together for a photo op with all the other democrat congresspeople and release a two-sentence statement that they support howard dean, the grassroots and the dnc.  

              that just might put a pause to the media onslaught every time dean opens his mouth.

              no, you say?  democrats have always been individualistic?  they're famous for shooting themselves in the foot?  

              well, guess what, naysayers? dean was ELECTED dnc chair, that means that the PEOPLE wanted him - comprende?

              given the choice between a joe biden who, while speaking eloquently on many of our issues, profits from every congressional media op and plays to the interests (see credit cards), and a howard dean who has (on a budget) been relentlessly traveling, speaking, running, conferencing, meeting, smiling and surviving for us around the country and for the country, just who would you pick?

              sometimes the truth hurts, f

            •  Perhaps Edwards could have handled his reply (none)
              a bit better, though I didn't see anything wrong with it myself...considering what he was replying to. When I read what Dean was quoted as saying-that Republicans have never done an honest day's work, my immediate thought was "thats a pretty sweeping generalization to make about the other side", and as I took it to mean all Republicans, because he didn't clarify that he meant just the representatives of the party, which he could have done easily. I also thought it was a pretty stupid thing to say.  So perhaps Dean could be more careful of what he says, as well.
              I have no problem in calling a spade a spade, but it means nothing if you are not accurate, and wide, sweeping statements aren't usually very accurate. This statement Dean made does nothing but provoke people against the Democratic party, and I don't see the benefits of that.
              •  It's not too much to ask... (4.00)
                ...that Democratic politicians be extremely careful with what they say when disagreeing with other Democrats and criticize each other only when absolutely necessary. Edwards could as easily have said: "Sounds out of context to me. I know Howard Dean and I'm sure he doesn't feel that way about ordinary Republican voters. Many of them are working people who we're trying to serve with our policies. And if you compare our policies to the Republicans'...."

                Edwards is a professional trial lawyer. Thinking on his feet is what he's supposed to be good at it. That said, it doesn't look like that big a deal. Bygones.

                The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

                by expatjourno on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 04:07:47 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Not paying much attention the last 20 years? (4.00)
                This statement Dean made does nothing but provoke people against the Democratic party, and I don't see the benefits of that.

                es, how nasty of Dean, unlike those fine moral upstanding GOPers that have been routinely winning elections since their mantra became "ALL U LIBS R ON WELFARE!!!!!"

                Here, let me explain the populist perspective:  all these Richie Rich republicans are trust-fund babies holding no-show jobs at the companies that their grandfathers built and that they are running into the ground.  In other words, Dubya represents that segment of the population perfectly.

          •  The Difference btw Edwards and Benedict Biden (4.00)
            Edwards will learn...Biden and Lieberman take joy in slamming Dems.....they have a Jones for media strokes...
          •  I just don't trust Edwards. (4.00)
            Quoting Edwards:
            What a flap has arisen over a disagreement about the way something is said! I was in Nashville over the weekend, thanking the good people of Tennessee who supported the Democratic presidential ticket this year, when I was asked whether I thought that it was fair to say that people who were Republican hadn't done a good day's work.  Of course, I didn't think so, and I said that.  I don't think our DNC chair, Howard Dean, would put it that way again if asked either.  I disagreed with him, and I said so.  And, I want to be clear, I would have to say so again if I were asked again. I said a lot of good things about Howard's outreach program and invigoration of the internet as a communication and fundraising tool, but no one wrote about that.  Instead the headlines blared that I disagreed with Howard. And then the flap arose: A chasm! A split! A revolt!

            I pointed this out in another diary.  Neither Biden nor Edwards had to go there.  It wasn't like this was a matter that needed to be addressed.  So Edwards was just speaking his mind, yeah, didn't think it was a big deal, yeah, no big deal, yeah, really, he just loooves Dean, yeah yeah.

            He wants to have it both ways.  He should have learned, by now, that doesn't work very well.

            Sorry if I have offended any Deaniacs, but that's just the impression he leaves.  He wants to be part of the grass-roots militia, but suck up to the beltway DLC types too.

            •  Oops... (4.00)
              I meant Edwardsians, not Deaniac.  

              I love Dean.  I was a Clark guy, but, Dean was my second choice.  Edwards never impressed me even a tiny bit.

            •  Agreed. What Edwards said (4.00)
              in his explanation:

              Dean was wrong, he won't say it that way again.
              Then Edwards adds the standard Kerry/Edwards schtick.. Dean showed is how to raise funds on the internet.  They love to pretend that is all Dean had going for him.

              I am not interested in Dean changing the way he speaks or what he says, but Edwards still needs some work.

          •  Mud (none)
            well, that was clear as mud.
          •  mistake to equate the two (none)
            Have recommended your diary Bob-it can't be said enough.  No one is paying attention to the places where Dean is out doing the work.

            I winced when Edwards said what he said, but he did qualify it. See tunesmith's link.  I can understand Kerry- bashing, have engaged in some of late myself,  but I don't understand Edwards-bashing, which was happening even before he said what he did.  Whatever anyone feels about him, to equate him with longtime Washington insider deep pockets Biden, based on one statement which was taken out of context, seems like slugging one of the wrong guys in this fight.  

            "A psychotic drowns in the very same stuff a mystic swims in."
            Pema Chodron

            by jeebs on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 05:50:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Dean and Edwards (4.00)
            both made the mistake of speaking in such a way that easily allowed the rethug noise machine to put a negative spin on their sound bites. They need to learn message disicipline, major big-time. They should'nt have to back-track and explain themselves to anyone, least of all us. And when the media does take them out of context, as the hostile rethug media ineivitably will, they need to be much more aggressive in the counter attack.

            Al Queada is a faith-based initiative.

            by drewfromct on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 07:22:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nah (none)
              Dean doesn't need message discipline. He's trying to get a meme out there ... trustfund GOoPers running the nation into the ground, and stealing our voting rights ... did a good job with the quote ... that's how you flip working class voters who've managed (for whatever "values"-based reason) to self-identify with the repugs) ...

              Edwards? The hottest plaintiff bar litigator in the southeast? A mistake? Don't think it was myself ... he's playing a deadly ranking game ...

              •  Yes, Dean does need message discipline (4.00)
                I'm a huge admirer of Howard. I gave him lots of money, wrote letters for him, voted for him, was hugely happy to see him elected DNC chair.

                But he does have a problem in that he sometimes puts his foot in his mouth. Part of it is that he's just not comfortable doing what Bush does, robotically repeating the same point over and over that he has rehearsed. He enjoys speaking spontaneously, and it makes him come of as more real. But he reverses names (he has said "Osama bin Laden" instead of "Saddam Hussein", or the reverse, several times), countries, etc., and he's gotten himself in trouble more than once for ill-considered statements. To me, that means he needs to spend more time rehearsing his remarks, like it or not.

                Just the same, he doesn't mis-speak nearly as often as Bush does, and you don't see Republican senators strongly attacking Bush every time he says something whacked. They simply ignore it, and talk about his deep connection with the fallible American people.

          •  yes (none)
            lets dont get too carried away on this gossip stuff. Dean is doing good work and Edwards needs to get into position to be the beneficiary in 2008.

            I see the two of them having potential to reinvigorate the party in very opposite ways.

            Often, the best teams consist of people with incongruent styles and talents.

            Everybody agreeing about everything all the time is not good, except on this website, of course!

        •  This is the kind of (none)
          reaction MSM and their republican party wants.

          When you step into their barnyard, you're bound to come out with something stuck on your shoe.

          If pro is the opposite of con, then what is the opposite of progress?

          by nupstateny on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 04:46:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I think we should cut Edwards some slack... (4.00)
        Biden is consistently an asshole.  

        Edwards may have actually simply responded to a question.  He ain't no Biden and I think we should lay off him until proven otherwise.

        If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

        by Bob Johnson on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:43:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's time we learned to be winners - and unite (none)
        I disagree.

        John Edwards was pressed to make comment about that statement. Could he have been more defensive of Dean at the time, even though we all know Dean's statement, as magnified by the troublemakers in the media, sounded pretty insulting? Perhaps. Is Dean perfect? Is Edwards perfect? Is anyone? Why do you hold Edwards to any higher standard than Dean? Why do you assign motives to Edwards that are not true, if you read what Edwards says from his own public writings?

        Edwards has further clarified his statement at the One America site. He has reassured us, in his own words, that he isn't in league against Howard. Why do any of you insist that he is? Because Candy Crowley told you so?

        This sounds as if lines are forming once again - and if we form lines, guess what? We lose.

        Let's concentrate on becoming a united party- from all sides.

        It's paramount to our future electoral success.

    •  Popinjay! (4.00)
      I love that word.

      I have to look up the transcript of Biden's remarks, so I can send him a memo about Dean bashing & respecting the Democrats who vote.

      When I read about the bad press, etc, I sent some extra cash to the DNC.  Just like the old days, we should spike some cash to Dean whenever is heard a disparaging word. ;-)

      Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha

      by x on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:57:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Biden has made my skin ... (4.00)
      ...crawl ever since he got those creepy hair implants instead of the spine implant he so desperately needs.


      Writing dialog George Lucas so terrible at is. --Yoda

      Visit The Next Hurrah

      by Meteor Blades on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:14:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "to paraphrase George Galloway" (4.00)
      Actually I think he stole that line from Niel Kinnock.

      Ha ha ha, making myself LOL
      (yes, I know, that makes one of us)

  •  What we need is... (4.00)
    an organized, coordinated campaign against these Dean-bashing Dems.


  •  Compare and contrast (4.00)
    Unlike McAuliffe, Dean isn't arriving in limousines; he's flying coach, paying for his own bus tickets, and carrying his own bags.

    And rebuilding a party.

    Thanks, Dr. Dean!

    In politics, sometimes the jackasses are on your side.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:27:34 PM PDT

  •  Who gets face time with the new chairman (4.00)
    I spent a day volunteering at the DNC lately, helping the Democratic Business Council put out a snail-mail mailing to 12,000 members.  It was tedious grunt work, but they were under a huge time crunch and had an enormous volume of work to do in a short time, so a few of us volunteers plowed through it.

    That day, the Gov just happened to be having a lunch with the Finance staff.  Apparently he regularly has lunch with different departments within the DNC so that he regularly stays in touch with staff members at all levels.

    Because we were working so hard for the Finance team on that particular day (a total coincidence), we 3 volunteers were invited to join the Gov on his private balcony for the BBQ lunch.  Everyone got face time with him, including hardworking volunteers.

    That's not something that can happen regularly, of course, but it was a happy coincidence that demonstrated a high level of respect and appreciation for grassroots volunteers like me.  If that's symbolic of Dean's new leadership, that's pretty great.

    •  Were you lobbying for offshore drilling permits? (4.00)
      Ah, the old days of power lunches at the DNC may be gone forever.

      Howard takes the subway to work.

      Al From is spitting blood at this point...

      If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

      by Bob Johnson on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:37:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Benedict Biden and "I knew it" (4.00)
        First...we have to deal the Benedict Arnold Senators...Biden and Lieberman.  As Kos explained so well on The Majority Report, a couple of months back: Ben Nelson may not have a great voting record, but he resists being baited into attacking fellow Dems; not so with Lieb and Traitor Biden, who sell us out for strokes from the beltway media.

        2nd, Bob you're in business...when I read these stories that last couple of weeks, beginning with Novak, two thoughts occured:  

        First, I've never scene these type of stories before, during prior cycles, and considering the distribution channels, they must of been planted.  

        2nd, you know that when numbers are being compared, they're not simply compared to competitors, but they're always compared in terms of prior preformances (year over year) - the fact that the stories only compared only the current fundraising to that of the Goopers and not to what TerryMc did or what Fowler did, told me that something was phony (they would have love to say Dean was way behind TerryMc)...and now the lies of omission are revealed and the media Complicity of the primary coverage (novak and business week) and lazyness of the secondary coveage(ap-wapo-usatoday, etc.).

      •  p.s GREAT JOB BOB....and what up with Carville? (4.00)
        I know what Benedict Biden and Lieberman are all about...but what's up with Carville?

        He's been whinning about his chairmanship from the start?

        And he was one the backstabbers saying "he'll lose 49 states, another McGovern."

        What's worst, Carville misdiagnosised the politics of Social security, saying that Dems should deal with bush...and now Mehlman was quoting Carville on the subject, yesterday on Beat the Meat, to hammer Dems.

        And for whatever reason, Carville is close to Melon Head Russert: I just know Carville wrote some of the attack questions russert used (it had his tone and syntax).  And I'm sure Carville is also leaking to Novak.

        Is this Clinton?  remember how Clinton asked Carville to call/ask Wes Clark to run for the position, and Clark said no, because he wants to run in 08.

        •  yes, this is the DLC (none)
          This is Carville sticking.... besides he's a K street guy.
        •  Carville and Matalin ... (4.00)
          have had this cute little "mixed marriage" racket going on for over ten years; it doesn't matter which party is in power, someone is always making the big bucks and maintaining Jim and Mary in their privileged lifestyle. Disgusting and disgraceful.
          •  "There's NO business (none)
            like SHOW business, like SHOW business, I know..."

            Don't you guys get it yet?

            They're not political mangers.

            They're ENTERTAINERS!!!

            They are the Steve + Edie of their generation. (Steve Lawrence and Edie Gorme, for you young 'uns. Song and patter from the Johnny Carson years. Well produced fluff.)

            Only THESE entertainers are going to end up killing us all.


            "Let the intelligent read and understand, and let the ignorant stay that way." From the earliest known piece of writng. A Mesopotamian shopping list. Nice.

            by Arthur Gilroy on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 06:03:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Terry MacAuliffe (4.00)
        I remember a couple of years ago when I was working on organizing a big contractor in Washington, DC.  It was Clark Construction, the same company that just about destroyed the DC labor movement in construction some years back and hasn't really mended its ways until it seems fit.

        So guess who the DNC starts negotiating with to build its new building?  Clark.  I'm not sure what wound up becoming of it because I left that union, but last I checked there were a lot of MacAuliffe people pissed at me for threatening to bring about 50 inner-city folks over to the DNC and picket it for hiring a contractor that discriminated against afro-american workers.

        "Moral Values Absent Economic Justice Is Poverty of the Soul." - anon.

        by PaulVA on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 05:32:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Again, when are you folks (4.00)
          going to get it?

          There ARE "two parties"...maybe even three or four.

          But they are NOT the "Republican" and "Democratic" parties.

          There is the PermaGov...the DemocRatpublican party, to which people like Mary Matalin, and James Carville belong. (And Biden and Edwards too. You betcha. And Lieberman and Kerry and McAuliffe..LOTSA folks. Funded by corporate interests, WORKING for corporate interests. And in SELF-interest as well.)

          And then there's the others.

          Like Dean.

          How can you tell the difference?

          One way is to watch who the DemocRatpublicans attack.

          Another is to just look at the way they travel.

          Dean is flying coach and paying his own way?


          Check it out.

          JUST like those on the "Republican" side.

          Again...check it out.

          Who was being attacked by party insiders when the Deep Throat story broke last week?

          THAT'S who is really a "conservative" instead of merely a PermaGov member in good standing.

          Want to know who is at least trying to straddle the fence in this system?

          On "our" side?

          Lying doggo a little so that they can aperhaps get elected?

          Look at who is NOT attacking Dean.


          Any word from Hillary on the matter yet?



          Check it out.


          "Let the intelligent read and understand, and let the ignorant stay that way." From the earliest known piece of writng. A Mesopotamian shopping list. Nice.

          by Arthur Gilroy on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 06:22:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Insiders don't know what a Dem looks like (4.00)
      Washington Democratic insiders have been so coopted by the tools of the enemy--money, influence, publicity, the flattering echo chamber--that they've forgotten what a real Democrat looks like.  Harry Truman wouldn't get the time of day from posers like Biden.  They're so used to the cocoon that they actually think the difference between them and the Republicans is a vote on the nuclear option.

      Howard Dean's got news for them.  The two parties ought to be radically different, not fraternal twins.  He's following the strategy of going for the 50% of nonvoters, not the 5% of swing voters.  He's trying to give ordinary people a stake in politics again.  

      One can understand how that would be threatening to members of the Gentlemen's (and Ladies') Club.  Good.  If they're not willing to share power with the people they claim to represent, they should get a good swift kick in their amply upholstered asses.

      Journalism is yours! Please support ePluribusMedia

      by Dallasdoc on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:32:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Washington Dem insiders (4.00)
        remind me of some of the Jews in Nazi Germany who watched their friends and family members, one by one, sent to concentration camps.  Some fled the country and were saved, but the ones who remained kept kidding themselves that they'd be spared for some reason.

        The beltway dems remind me of these unfortunate people.  They keep thinking they will cull favor with the Republicans, and will continue to live off the crumbs the GOP throws to them.

        When are they going to realize that "chosen few" is merely a myth of their own egos?

      •  YES!!! (none)

        "Let the intelligent read and understand, and let the ignorant stay that way." From the earliest known piece of writng. A Mesopotamian shopping list. Nice.

        by Arthur Gilroy on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 06:23:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Not Quite True (none)
        He's following the strategy of going for the 50% of nonvoters, not the 5% of swing voters.

        Dean's going for swing voters too. But, rather than pandering, his strategy involves messages invoking frames that will recapture some who identify with our side's values. (Jeez, that's ancient stuff, no?)

        Dean's not trying to get somebody to vote Democrat one time to rid the country of somebody awful. He rightly understands that a good number of these folks voting in the wrong column can become convinced that they should vote Democrat for years to come. That's why we need to leave no contest unchallenged, why we need to build our benches from the most minor offices, and why we need a 50-state strategy.

    •  Maura (none)
      I'd bet you're on Gov Dean's Xmas card list. LOL!

      Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha

      by x on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 01:31:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  wow, you're still alive, maura? :) (none)
      glad to see you're still involved after that disaster weekend with Dean's #2.
    •  This is why I love Dr. Dean (none)
      A down-to-earth party chair who rides the subway and appreciates people.  Imagine that.
    •  Oh, Maura -- (none)
      I wish I could have been there with you!

      For me the heartbreak of this election is the fight to save Social Security.
      ....I thought we'd be fighting for universal health coverage.

      by katiebird on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 11:48:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Bravo (none)
    this  needs to be recommended and posted everywhere.
  •  Hand me a late pass and help me out.. (none)
    Where are links to what Biden and Edwards said? I'm very curious.
    •  Your wish is my command... (none)

      If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

      by Bob Johnson on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:55:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  hrm (4.00)
        I already linked to the article once, but here's an excerpt from a blog entry by john edwards:

        We are both talking about the Republicans and their failure to address the needs of working people. We both agree with this basic truth: This Republican president and this Republican majority are not doing what they should be doing for working people in this country. That's a core belief we need to fight for.  And what's more, we agree that we - all Democrats and all working people - should be complaining, criticizing, and generally speaking out about this critical failure of the Republican party and offering our positive vision for America.  And we have.

        Howard and I have been saying the same thing about this for years.  Hear that? The same thing. For years. Have I ever put it some way that Howard wouldn't agree with?  Probably. And he put it in a way, once, just the other day, that I can't agree with, since I come from a place where hard-working people, who are better served by the agenda and passion of the Democrats, somehow still vote Republican.  But Howard and I are committed to a 50-state strategy that will reach out to those voters, in North Carolina, and in Kansas, and in Tennessee, across this country and tell the truth about what is happening in this country to their jobs, to their health care, to their forests and streams, to their vision of what this country is and should be.

        Now, it's fair to theorize that Edwards said something and is now trying to seriously backpedal.  But when you think about the consultancy classes, and just how broad this mini-controversy is - more than a few different articles and features, and when you factor in quotes like this one, from this article:

        "He was gratuitously insulting 50 million Americans who call themselves Republicans, some of whom we hope will vote Democrat," says Democratic consultant David Axelrod.

        It really starts to look more like a media strategy.  David Nimrod is simply repeating a GOP talking point there, when anyone who knows anything knows that Dean was talking about GOP lawmakers.  Methinks there are some folks scared shitless about what Dean is doing, and they're doing whatever the hell they can to stir up controversy and rile up the media, even if it involves taking some relatively mild comments like Edwards' and using them to further their aims.

        Politology.US - Politics and Technology in the United States

        by tunesmith on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:11:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Axelrod ran Edwards' campaign (none)
          So he's just doing his job and backing up his guy.

          If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

          by Bob Johnson on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:14:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  aw, crap (none)
            you serious?

            fuck.  that kinda knocks me off my footing a bit.

            Politology.US - Politics and Technology in the United States

            by tunesmith on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:17:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yep (none)
              David Axelrod works out of Chicago.  He is an excellent campaign guy.  Ran Obama's campaign, too.

              If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

              by Bob Johnson on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:19:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  oh (none)
                So, he's not Edwards right-hand man or anything.  Okay, that's better.  For a second there I was wondering if Edwards was saying one thing to us while sic'ing an attack dog on Dean.  Now I don't think that.

                Politology.US - Politics and Technology in the United States

                by tunesmith on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:30:22 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well, my guess is that Axelrod... (none)
                  ... is still on the payroll.  Edwards has another run in mind and he wouldn't let his #1 consultant go.  Axelrod is in the business of making money for running campaigns.  And he's damn good at it.  So I doubt whether Edwards would let him go look for another gig.

                  If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

                  by Bob Johnson on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:33:42 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I've watched Edward's (none)
                  slice and dice Dean during the dem nomination while he and Kerry tried to steal Dean's message and make it sound like it was theirs.

                  Not a fan of beltway boys.  They let us go to war.  Edwards was one of Bush's strongest supporters and posed as a great partiot.

                  One of the biggest things that people still don't get:

                  Dean rides coach.  Dean has two suits.  Dean lives in a $170,000 house.  Dean's from a well-off Republican family but is a Dem.  So am I.  I can relate to him and, even though he doesn't talk about it alot, I know that the man has earned, through introspection, his Dem credentials.

                  •  Edwards supported Bush? (none)
                    The bullshit never stops, does it?
                    •  Yes (none)
                      He supported Bush's decision to invade Iraq.  Hope that clarifies it.

                      I know I am probably in the minority here.  I didn't see this past nomination process in the same way I had viewed others.  The reason for this is because I thought that it should have been obvious to just about anyone that Bush was making things up to support his war.  It was a horrible feeling to search and search for contrary reporting at that time.  But...I knew I was right.  And...I knew I wasn't that much smarter than anyone else.  So..why wasn't someone, anyone, putting forth a contrary opinion?  I excused it sometimes because, at the time, to do so would have been to have yourself labeled "unpatriotic", "unamerican", "a traitor".

                      So, as many here on dailykos can tell you, we came to this website united, for the most part, in the belief that Bush was lying.  Many of us, who had never been involved in politics, in any way, determined BEFORE the Democratic nomination debates began, to take a serious look at all the Dem candidates.  It was during that period that I saw the interview with Edwards.  I had been thinking for supporting him or Kerry.  I hadn't heard Dean yet.  I didn't hear Dean until the first Dem debate.  Anyway, Edwards defended Bush's decision to invade Iraq.  I was terribly dissappointed.  

                      Then I heard Kucinich and Dean.  I immediately ruled out Kucinich because I do believe that there are times when war is justified and Kucinich made it sound like he didn't.  To me, Dean spoke my words, my thoughts, my ideology.  He spoke to me.  He wasn't afraid and his message was clear.  

                      Many people had the same experience at the time.  Remember, people like me felt that the world was going insane and we were searching for sanity in the public discourse.  Dean provided it for us.

                      I'm not trying to convince anyone that they should experience my experience.  Nor am I trying to convince anyone that they should become a fan of Howard Dean's.  However, if you read this with the desire to understand, you might be able to understand why I am distrustful of Edwards as I have watched him, as well as the other presdential hopefuls, like a hawk for some time now.

        •  DNC = ATM (4.00)
          We don need no stinkin state parties

          just show me my money...

        •  "Constitutional Option" (4.00)
          This means that Edwards is strengthening a Republican talking point (about Dean insulting all republicans as opposed to republican lawmakers), that would be as bad as a Democrat saying "The Constitutional Option", but I think even worse in this case!!

          The DNC needs to send out talking points pronto for the Dem's to clarify Dean's remarks as referring to the Republican Lawmakers and not the Republican voters...

        •  About Edwards.... (4.00)
          I don't care how much lipstick Edwards tries to put on this pig...he was WRONG to publically slam Howard Dean.

          this is the kind of crap that gets us OFF MESSAGE....this is the gift that keeps on giving to the GOP....we want to talk issues, they will use Edwards and Bidens slam of dean to change the subject.

          and WE will happy follow their lead and defend DEAN instead of stay on the our ISSUE MESSAGE.

          this is why it was devastatingly WRONG for Edwards to attack DEAN...and his reasons for doing what he did wont change the fact that he did it.

          My grandmother taught me a really good lesson...if you have to explain or apologize for something you said perhaps you shouldnt have said it in the first place...Howard Dean didnt feel HE had to explain his comment...John Edwards seems to have felt HE had to explain his attack...if he had to explain WHY he attacked Dean, perhaps its because he realizes he was wrong for attacking dean in the first place.

          and as for Bidens comment that Dean doesnt speak for him...well guess what Mr Biden..DEAN SPEAKS FOR ME.

          "Not even Revelations threatens a plague of vengeful yahoos." H. S. Thompson

          by KnotIookin on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 07:25:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Howard Dean is surprising more and more each day.. (4.00)
    by ignoring the fat cats, and reaching out to us regular folks he is doing, what I feel, is the best work a Democratic chairperson can do.  Dean is opening up an opportunity for the Democrats to tell the big business special interests to kiss their asses, now we need to convince our elected Democrats to follow Dean's lead.  

    absolute freedom for one individual undoubtedly limit's the freedom of another.

    by jbou on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:58:40 PM PDT

  •  I hope this is up in the morning (4.00)
    for the Eastcoast Readers to see, along with  the entire DC elite. Shout it out to the rafters...Howard Dean is the Future of the Democratic Party and A leader like no other Awesome work Bob. Howard Dean gives me hope.  

    *Was John Bolton in OHIO, Nov. 2nd 2004, or was it really Homeland security?*

    by Chamonix on Mon Jun 06, 2005 at 11:59:01 PM PDT

    •  Hey... (none)
      some of us Eastcoasters are up & reading it....I'm gonna regret it later this morning, but I'm up & reading....
    •  Dean for President in 2008. (none)
      Or perhaps a Hillary/Dean ticket.

      Don't laugh.

      Hillary has been doing the backropom work and the "I'm just SO middle!!"  act. But I believe that it is just an act.

      And Dean is as in your face as it is possible to get and still survive on the national political scene.

      Ms. Inside and Mr. Outside.

      The Great Conciliator and the Attack Dog.

      It'd work...


      "Let the intelligent read and understand, and let the ignorant stay that way." From the earliest known piece of writng. A Mesopotamian shopping list. Nice.

      by Arthur Gilroy on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 06:29:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's really disgusting, isn't it? (4.00)
    These people have no principles. It's all about power, power, and more power, with the end result of being dead in the ground with nothing positive to show for it. How sad it must be to lead such an empty life.
  •  Just imagine (4.00)
    a Democratic Congress and White House owing nothing to K Street.

    Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

    by alizard on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:02:21 AM PDT

  •  Dammmmmmm (4.00)
    I just pledges $15.01/mo as part of Howard's goal of raising $500K for state rebuilding. I may just have to up that to help make up for anything he loses because the Secret Masters of Insider Democratness are trying to undercut him.

    A party of the people. Imagine.

  •  I'm too stupid (4.00)
    to understand anything you're trying to say.

    and the role of chair is to back up dems... not so much the other way around.

    i don't like biden's and edwards's comments any more than the next person, btw.

    not all dems fell in behind mcauliffe, rightly so.  not all dems will fall in behind dean.

  •  Maybe I missed the link, (4.00)
    Where are the quotes from Biden and Edwards attacking Dean?  I didn't watch the shows but am very curious to read them.  I would greatly appreciate if someone who has them handy can copy and paste...

    About this diary,

    The argument about it being more important to take donations from the large donors than the small ones is ridiculous, especially if the little guys are able to raise more... It has long been known that politicians are controlled by those who fund them, it is GREAT to see this funding now coming from the little guys, and for it to be massive enough to offset the big guys who are used to having the power!

    I really like the idea of the Democratic party being the party of the people, instead of just being a party of a separate group of special interests.

  •  On many ssues ... (4.00)
    ...Governor Dean and I are leagues apart. But I supported him early on because I like the way he thinks organizationally. His goal is to support an active Democratic campaign in every House and Senate race and get an active Democratic organization going in every county. My wish is to get an active Democratic organization going in each of the 300,000+ precincts in this country where there are at least three Democrats. Grassroots and netroots are going to turn this party upside down, and the Bidens, Liebermans and their ilk should either get with the program or get out of the way so Dean can do what he is obviously so capable of doing.


    Writing dialog George Lucas so terrible at is. --Yoda

    Visit The Next Hurrah

    by Meteor Blades on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:21:02 AM PDT

    •  The very crux of this conflict... (4.00)
      Decentralization is threatening to entrenched D.C. interests.  It's amoney outflow from Washington to state parties.  Just the opposite of McAuliffe.

      If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

      by Bob Johnson on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:23:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I love DEAN (4.00)
    Because he talks straight and that's all... I mean ALL the Americna people are desperate for. As part of this talk straight theme, on another diary, a conversation about DEAN creating a Democratic Party "Contract with America."

    Maybe something like this...

    The theme is: straight up, straightforward, Nascar dads, security moms, elitist liberals... groove on it...

    1. National Security/Terrorism

    As Democrats we believe in smart National Defense. We also believe that very specific corporate interests now in power in Washington pose very specific dangers to our National Security. We believe that since Republicans are responsible for the troubling actions overseas, Democrats can be more successful in repairing our damaged reputation with Muslims and the world at large. We can't stop Terrorism if we go on creating 20 new people that hate America with every one that we capture. We need to be smarter, and Democrats are.

    2. Iraq War

    We now know that the White House has been misrepresenting the facts so that they could take us into the War with Iraq that they've been hoping for since the late 90's. It's a tragic and epic abuse of power and there needs to be accountability. But meanwhile, restoring our Nation's image in Iraq is the front battle in our fight for our own National Security. The sooner we turn over control of Iraqi corporations and oil interests to Iraqis themselves and take them out of the hands of companies like Haliburton, the fewer Iraqis will be interested in attacking us. They'll be where they want to be, at work.

    3. Social Security

    George Bush has again tried to milead the country. The Republican Party has been trying to take Social Security away from the American Public ever since it was created because they have been and are today, the Party of the Wealthy. Social Security is a Security Net and must not be privatized in any way. We can't trust the Enron's of the world with our elderly's well-being. We must face the upcoming problems by doing what we've done in the past; by fine-tuning the system as part of a bi-partisan dialogue.

    4. Budget Deficit

    The Republicans have shown us that they are the Party of Convenience. When it suits their political ideology, they are happy to take money from the poor and middle classes with relish we've never seen amongst Democrats. Democrats believe in responsible taxation because we believe that for our society to work, it must be funded properly. We'll talk to you plainly about what it costs to live as we Americans do. Republicans will tell you what you want to hear; cut taxes at first, drive our economy into ruin, and then live "high off the hog" while the rest of us suffer the consequences of a country that doesn't function. Democrats believe that taxation responsibility for all classes of Americans (and any "corrections" will be directed at the super-wealthy/corporate powers... not small and mid-sized businesses) will avoid the problems we've seen over the past 6 years.

    5. Energy Policy, Oil costs

    The Republican Party is too reliant on the corporate money in the oil industry. It is damaging our National Security and our Economic Security. Only Democrats are able to be tough with the oil cartels and only the Democrats will be able to really start moving this country away from oil and toward more sustainable energies. The simple fact is that it won't happen unless we give Democrats the power to do it.

    6. Individual and States' Rights (Terri Shiavo and No Child Left Behind)

    Never before in our recent history has a White House and Congress been so tyrranical about dictating ways of life and morality than in the past 6 years and never before have the American People been clearer in their message that the governement needs to take two steps backwards out of the lives of Americans. We are a country of many Faiths and Cultures. That is what makes America special and important and successful; unfortunately, it seems that only the Democratic Party still remembers this. Maybe we've always been the only one?

    7. Education

    Public Education cannot be based on Religious dogma. We've learned this lesson a long time ago. American cannot base it's teachings on any one Faith. Which one would we choose? Additionally, the No Child Left Behind initiative must be funded by the Republicans who created it if they are going to force it on teachers. As Democrats however, we believe that if, as is the case, the majority of teachers and educators are telling us that this program doesn't work, that excessive testing isn't the right way toward educating our children; then we believe we need to rework this legislation so that it gets the job done.  

    8. Nuclear proliferation and military escalation.

    As Democrats we believe that the Republican Party is too closely tied to the military industrial complex. There is too much money to be made by War, by selling arms, by the militirization of space for example. Democrats want to see fewer bombs, not more. Only Democrats will begin the process of regaining the lost control (during the Bush Administration) of Nuclear materials and begin working Peacefully to end all large-scale weapons development/research worldwise. And that includes here at home. Democrats believe that we shouldn't be spending so much on weapons research (Bush's Star Wars Program for example) when our schools are suffering, our water is polluted, and our people have no Health Insurance. When one looks at what other wealthy countries spend, it's no wonder their schools seem to work.

    9. Environmental Issues

    Democrats believe in controlling the large corporate polluters the Republicans must rely on for campaign donations. We also aren't reliant on oil corporations. This is important because it allows us to be the only Party that can move our country toward Environmental Sustainability. Anything on the Republican side is more likely than not, just lip-service. How many environmentalists vote Republican? It's in everyone's interest (except Bush and his boys) to create this NEW industry. Like the tech-boom of the 90's, it will create jobs; but more importantly, it will help us save our planet for our children.

    10. Globalization and Global Relations

    Our reliance on the sweatshops in the Mariana Islands, plantations in Brazil, oil in the Middle East; all of these dependencies hurt our image overseas. In an age of terrorist threats, our National Security is reliant on our responsibility and generosity to poorer countries. If for every bomb the Republicans want to build, the Democrats could send 1 ton of rice to Africa... Democrats believe we'd all be a lot safer, a lot happier, and a lot more likely to get a pass with St. Peter.

    11. Abortion

    see above... i'm Bushed...

    12. Gay/Civil Rights

    Screw it.. somebody take over, i'm finito...

      13. Somebody make up one

      14. Somebody make up another...

    "I'm not altogether on anyone's side, because no one is altogether on my side." -Treebeard. ..."But I'm always on top!" (Think I'm Libertarian? Think dirtier.)

    by Jeff Gannon on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:22:30 AM PDT

    •  Every one of these needs .. (4.00)
      ...a resonating soundbite that become utterly embedded in the national psyche, the way tax-and-spend Democrats worked for the GOP.


      Writing dialog George Lucas so terrible at is. --Yoda

      Visit The Next Hurrah

      by Meteor Blades on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:24:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes... (none)
        We need to Luntz it all. I would love for Dean to do this exercise one night and see what we get. I bet it'd be worth printing an distributing to every single breathing American.

        "I'm not altogether on anyone's side, because no one is altogether on my side." -Treebeard. ..."But I'm always on top!" (Think I'm Libertarian? Think dirtier.)

        by Jeff Gannon on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:33:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Nobody likes the morality police (4.00)
        The list is great. It made me want to jump up and cheer, much like how Dean's speeches made me feel in winter 2003.

        Here's a start on one of the soundbites:

        6. Individual and States' Rights (Terri Shiavo and No Child Left Behind)

        Never before in our recent history has a White House and Congress been so tyrranical about dictating ways of life and morality than in the past 6 years and never before have the American People been clearer in their message that the governement needs to take two steps backwards out of the lives of Americans. We are a country of many Faiths and Cultures..."

        Change that to "The government needs to take two steps backwards out of the private, family and religious lives of Americans."

        But not quite as few syllables as "tax and spend democrats.." so how about "Intrusive Republicans"...or "Morality police Republicans"?

        Vice harms the doer ~ Socrates

        by kdub on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 04:01:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Great Ideas... (none)

          Log-in Eye Republicans (play off of log-cabin)

          I'm honored to have made you get up and chear like at a Dean rally.

          I think this is a great exercise for all of us to do on our own and as a community. Maybe some big wigs at Kos can do a diary on it...?

          We can all shave our heads, Luntz style (and in honor of your's truly) and then put them together.

          "I'm not altogether on anyone's side, because no one is altogether on my side." -Treebeard. ..."But I'm always on top!" (Think I'm Libertarian? Think dirtier.)

          by Jeff Gannon on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 09:53:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Too many headings (none)
      All those specific items should be presented as leading from a short list (like 3) of basic principles.
    •  Individual and states' rights (none)
      Can we please not link individual and states' rights as if they are of equal value?

      "States' rights" is a construct sometimes useful for enabling experimentation within a federal system. However, it's also a historical artifact and has often been the excuse for ugly behavior - by the state. The rights enunciated here are for one level of government against another.

      "Individual rights" are just that - protection of all individuals against the power of government whether national or local.

      Let's not fall into the trap of endorsing a concept simply because the Republicans are hypocritically running roughshod over it.

    •  A shortened version (none)


      The Democrat's Real Deal is a simple 5 point program:

      1. REAL  Energy  Independence for America
      2. REAL National Security
      3. REAL Social Security Solvency
      4. A REAL Balanced Budget
      5. REAL Healthcare Reform
    •  Put ELECTION REFORM (none)
      on the top of that list. It's a waste of time to vote for Democrats on Diebold machines, and we'll never win as long as we continue to allow the Blackwells and Harris types to count the votes.

      Email Dean and tell him that if we don't restore openness and integrity to the voting process, nothing else will matter.

      Al Queada is a faith-based initiative.

      by drewfromct on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 07:39:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  All Great Ideas (none)
        I love the REAL DEAL.

        I could see DEAN writing that...

        "I'm not altogether on anyone's side, because no one is altogether on my side." -Treebeard. ..."But I'm always on top!" (Think I'm Libertarian? Think dirtier.)

        by Jeff Gannon on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 09:45:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Dean Knows That (none)
        He also knows it's a state-level issue. (That's a matter of the US Constitution.)

        That's one of the key reasons why the focus is now being placed on (re)building the state parties. The reform has to happen at in the state legislatures. To get traction, Dems must either control them (and the governorship), or at least have enough votes to force enough cross-overs, to pass the legislation that we crave.

        This isn't a small job. It won't be finished this year. Or 2006. Likely not even in 2008.

        Yes, it does sound like a Catch-22. We need lawyers, guns and money, as well as some great candidates. (Well, maybe not the guns ...)

  •  Question: Who are these 'Big' Donors??? (4.00)
    What "major" donor/lobbyiest in their right mind is going to give handsomely to a party that is completely out of power?

    I think it is a load of crock of Dean dissing big Donors...

    Big donors give money to get influence... what the hell can the Dems influence at this moment... NOTHING!!! We are locked out of every branch thanks to the DLCers.

  •  listen up Senator Biden... (4.00)
    I couldnt believe it...the damn LEAD on the news tonight was all about BIDEN attacking DEAN...when i heard this i was downright livid...are the democrats deliberatly trying to become insignificant?? I was so damn angry at Biden I wrote him this letter....i hope a whole lot of other people wrote to tell him to STFU.

    listen up Senator Biden...

    STOP ATTACKING HOWARD DEAN...who the heck do you think you're helping by doing the GOP's work for them???  Dean isnt the problem BUSH IS....every time you attack Howard Dean you allow the gop to have a posterboy for the 06 elections ....and i dont give a damn if you dont think Dean speaks for you...he speaks for ME and a whole heck of alot of other formerly disenfranchished democrats, progressives and liberals aka YOUR PARTY BASE...

    whether you like it or not we are what moves this party and I for one am sick and tired of TRYING to work for the democrats only to have democrats like you knife us in the back...

    In case you havent noticed DEMOCRATS have been quite successful in controling the national debate lately, do you think YOU did that Senator Biden? think again..its hundreds of thousands of DEANIACS who have not stopped writing to the press, the cable news and elected officials to voice our displeasure with Bush's agenda....without us the democratic party would truely be finished and every time I hear a democrat idioticially attack another democrat i wonder WHY I am still registered as a democrat IF my own party wants to committ suicide.

    STOP attacking Howard Dean or risk losing hundreds of thousands of progressives, liberals and deaniacs to that 3rd party we were all talking about after the democrats once again FAILED to win an election.

    "Not even Revelations threatens a plague of vengeful yahoos." H. S. Thompson

    by KnotIookin on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:26:38 AM PDT

    •  Biden has spent his whole life... (4.00)
      ...working his way into the inner circles of Democratic Party power and sucking up to big donors. Dean is rapidly making all that work irrelevant. No wonder Biden is pissed.

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

      by expatjourno on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:42:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Also mentioned (none)
      this AM on C-Span by a "writer" for a television news program (he didn't say which one).  The guy reiterated that Dean has slandered all republicans as never having worked.

      I heard Dean's speech, live.  Know what?  I didn't think he was talking about Republican politicians.  It sounded to me like a broad brush statement to me too, and I didn't like it myself.

      However, it will take shocking statements to get anyone's attention.  Otherwise, it's all the same; business as usual.  

    •  Biden = The Ranks of the Traitors Grow... (4.00)
      Betrayal Knows No Bounds

      Judas Iscariot
      Image Hosted by
      Benedict Arnold
      Image Hosted by
      Mata Hari
      Image Hosted by

      Bob Nofacts
      Image Hosted by
      Senator Biden

      Image Hosted by
  •  ok -- joking aside (none)
    lets just be clear....  do you think the biden and edwards comments were crafted to "rip dean" (hyperbole, but lets stick with it for now)  NOT because of any ideological or strategy differences (we can talk about those later, if anyone wants), but simply because they feel the right people aren't getting the money they think they should??

    if not, then those comments are not relevant to the point made in this diary.  a point i might agree with if biden and edwards were left out of it.

    if it's not clear, i'll remove some detritus from the question:  do you think the biden and edwards comments were crafted because they feel  people aren't getting the money they think they should??

    •  There may be many different motivations (none)
      These two guys may be running in '08 and they may be manuevering to get someone more amenable to their worldviews into Dean's slot.

      But the "anonymous sources" are most likely political consultants who feeling a bit lighter in the wallet.

      If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

      by Bob Johnson on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:38:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  makes sense (none)
        so they're really two separate issues.

        1. biden and edwards put their foot in their mouths.  edwards has explained himself but i would even go to edwards and say "dude, damage done.  it's imperative we maintain a united front to the media at all times."   biden, stubborn ass that he is will never qualify his statement.

        2.  there are people, (not just limitted to consultants) in this party who will bash dean out of sheer fear of obsolescence and greed.

        i agree with both these statements.  2) almost goes without saying, at least for me it does.  it's war out there.  but the implied connections between 1) and 2) are only going to feed the paranoias that create the kinds of things that you were ranting AGAINST in this diary:

      •  If so, they should be careful (none)
        what they wish for.  If they manage to push Dean out of the DNC chairmanship, he will be in a strong position to run against them, no longer constrained by his promise not to run.
    •  If the party continues in this direction... (4.00)
      ...Biden's chances of getting the nomination are nil.

      I think it really is all about a struggle for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party and the battle lines are drawn.

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

      by expatjourno on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 12:44:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Edwards comments (none)
      werent "crafted". He's a lot like Dean and Clark in that he actually.. talks. He doesnt leave the house every morning with a script. Edwards was set up and CNN's pet hack Candywhore spent all morning spinning (theres a shock huh).

      Edwards was responding to one of numerous questions and there is no way he could have known it was a land mine specifically laid out by the media. Even then what he didnt say what they said he did. He BASICALLY said "dean is one of the voices of the democratic party" after you pare it all down. You didnt see that on CNN or the big media though did you?

      As for Biden. Biden has always been a very republican friendly selfserving senator. He's one of the old boy network who sees the house and the admin as the enemy, not the gop. He's  a self serving powerplayer not a democrat. Always has been. Always will be.

      The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed)

      by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 03:15:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think of it as power struggle (none)
      They would like to minimize Dean if they can, so they can maintain their own necessity and use that for influence. Dean isn't playing their game at all - and that's unnerving. So they're trying to play their game a bit harder.

      And Dean doesn't give a rat's ass, and will continue to build up the states from the roots. And the states apparently just love him. As well they should.

      Edwards may have realized and thought better of his reaction. Biden is such a narcissist he may not even realize the Democratic party exists for other people too. It's a shame; it keeps Biden from actually being the statesman that his ego tells him he is.

      "Think. It ain't illegal yet." - George Clinton

      by jbeach on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 11:37:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Also for comparison (4.00)
    consider that the current fund-raising total comes at a time when Dems do not control the White House or either house of Congress for the first time in an off year (besides 2003) since who the fuck knows when.

    I bet that none of these big-time donors even want to give to Dems - the party couldn't pass a resolution that bears should shit in the woods right now - they just want to whine and pressure them to adopt their agenda.

  •  I gave you a "Recommend" (none)
    just for the title of this diary.
  •  My e-mail (4.00)
    Dear Senator Reid,

    I am shocked that Senator Biden saw fit to insult Chairman Dean on National television on Sunday.  I would bet that not a single Republican would even privately criticize Mr Mehlman.  

    Please inform Senator Biden that Democratic voters are very fond of Gov Dean, and many of us are personally affronted by public criticicism, by Democrats, of the Party Chairman .  We need to speak with one voice against the Republican radical agenda.  If Senator Biden has a complaint, he should privately address it to Gov Dean, not broadcast it on National TV.

    We need Party Unity, not the circular firing squad.

    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha

    by x on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 01:14:20 AM PDT

  •  Well Bob (none)
    All this is precisely why I was so loud in imploring Dean not to run for DNC chair in the first place.  I was as certain this stuff was coming as I was that Bush was lying to get war in Iraq.  I have this bad habit of knowing stuff "too soon," it's always made me unpopular.
    •  doesn't mean we can't fight back (none)
      I think Dean also knew ti was coming he kept his head down and got incredible successes under his belt.

      So now these attacks from people like Edwards and Biden look just mean and malicious...which they are.

      As Dean said we have to fight our way off the ropes... I mean when you get Barney Frank spout utter rubbish defend Tom "I hate gays" DeLay then you can comprehend the sheer panic in the DC Dems

    •  Didn't we complain? (none)
      that the Republicans work the media better than Democract. They had attack dogs attacking Kerry and then Bush's WH somewhat but not fully distanced itself from the attacks.  Now the Democrats are doing it and we should praise them all.  Dean is doing a great job in extracting the party from special interests' hold.  He is also correct in attaking Republicans the way he did.  Biden, Edwards and any potential presidential candidate are correct to distance themselves somewhat from the attacks.
    •  What Do You Know Now? (none)
      Any stock tips?  Racing tips?
    •  Popular to Me... (4.00)

      LOVE YOUR STUFF.  KEEP IT UP. WE AIM TO IN MARYLAND. I wrote Reid, have just decided to never give another nickle to DSCC, and will support the DNC only if Dean is Chair.


      Democrats: The Ass You Save Is Your Own.

      by vetfordean on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 08:40:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, Mr. D. Larry, (4.00)
      you really don't want Dean for Chairman?  I didn't either, because it actually "hurts" to hear people criticize him and I did not want that.  However, it was Dean's choice to run.

      And the dems in the states and local dem parties put Dean in the chairmanship.  And it will be the state and county dem people that will defend him and keep him there.  The insiders in D.C . know NOTHING of what is happening in America in general.  

      It is my belief Dean KNEW how hard it was going to be.  He is still out there, putting his heart (and head) on the chopping block in order to get stuff done in the reddest of red states, and even in the purpleish colored counties.

      People are flocking to hear him just like we did (close your eyes and hear the cheering) and spreading his message that we have the power.  All of us, including the poorest and unconnected, have a duty to rise up and fight.  Dean is spreading the message.  It is all good - as my granddaughter is fond of saying.

      Take him down or not, the states have seen what can happen.  They take Dean down at their peril.  I do not believe that with one more year of this traveling of Dean's, anyone could take the chairmanship away from him.  It is still voted on by all states chairs etc.  

      The change will come from the states (and state run elections).

  •  Here's a plan (4.00)
    We start a running diary, call it, "Batterrr Up!"  or some such.  Whenever we find bad press about Dean, put up the link, & the DNC link, & do a fund drive.

    This keeps the Dean magic going, getting money flowing via bad press.

    What say?

    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha

    by x on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 01:40:18 AM PDT

  •  We need to start making lists (3.75)
    Open public lists.
    Of people to target, and punish, when we take power again. And by "we" i dont mean the democratic party establishment. I mean Democrats. (theres a difference).

    I know people will get all atwitter at the thought that we might gasp have a specific list of people we want OUT. But its time we lived in the reality based world

    At the top of my list would be Joe Biden,Joseph "lips" Lieberman and Al From.

    Add to that -
    Any 'democrat' who votes for Patriot 2.
    Any 'democrat' who votes for Bolton.
    Any 'democrat' who votes for the hideous five.
    Any 'democrat' who publicly attacks Dean, Reid or Pelosi.

    Not an ideological list. Be prochoice, antichoice, progun, anti2nd,prowar,antiwar. The one requirement to be a democrat should be that you are PRO-Democrat and Pro-democratic party twenty four hours a day and seven days a week.

    The Democratic party needs to adopt its own moral and values principles (clawed)

    by cdreid on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 03:04:03 AM PDT

  •  another Dean tid bit (4.00)
    I read this on TPM Cafe:

    Governor Dean came down to Nashville for a fundraiser more than a month ago and to speak with party activists.  Now, this in and of itself was a big deal and if you think that Governor Dean's efforts to reach out to Red states are falling on deaf ears, you should hear some of the folks who were there that day tell it.  Governor Dean was extremely well received, not necessarily because of what he had to say, but the fact that he was there saying it.

     Many have made the point that Dean isn't winning over any Red state Republicans with his comments.  Perhaps Gov. Dean realizes that as the head of the Democratic National Committee he'll never be able to win these people over, given how successful the Right has been at demonizing the Democratic Party label in many, many of these Red states.  BUT, the people who can win over the R's in Red States are activists like my father who were very excited to have the Governor there and if followed through with, will be out there talking to their friends and telling them what we, as Democrats, stand for.  A national figure will NEVER have that kind of credibility in TN the way Tennessee Democrats can because you don't often get to be a national figure without appealing to the left flank of our party on some level at least and appropriately so.

    But for my anecdote, when Gov. Dean came down he was just scheduled for the fundraiser and a previously scheduled speech at Vanderbilt for a speaking series they have.  Well, after speaking at Vanderbilt (whose diversity is somewhat lacking), Governor Dean decided he should speak again, but this time at Tennessee State University, a historically black college also in Nashville.  Completely unscheduled, in fact threw his schedule completely out of whack, but it's indicative of the kind of commitment Gov. Dean has to speaking to people of color and he should get credit where credit is due.

    •  Funny how on the ground reports differ from MSM (4.00)
      ..and we are going to Montana...

      Dean at the DNC meeting

      Howard Dean arrived after lunch. The crowd greeted him warmly. A fair number of non-DNC people filled the room.

      He talked about his travel schedule-leaving me wondering how he can look and sound so fresh. Not only did he come to speak in Montana...he's hanging around to go on a sight-seeing boat trip to the Gates of the Mountains with us.

      Dean reiterated that he expects the state parties to provide a few things...and soon. He has asked state parties to put together lists of home emails for all Dem party elected officials, from governors on down to precinct people. The idea is that the list can be used to send out messages so everyone can be on the same page with the same talking points.

      He also asked state parties to get together with elected officials to put together documents describing what issues are best to run on for each state. At the DNC meeting in Phoenix in September, they'll be combined, and then things will be subtracted from the platform so it's clear what the 3-4 things are that all Democrats can run on. He doesn't want everyone to run on exactly the same message-he says it must be tailored for specific locality-but that we all agree on principles. He went on to say that it must be succinct and not a laundry list.

      He praised the state party efforts, noting that the first states are hiring people now and that 13 have been funded. The DNC will train them and pay the new hires, although they're chosen by the states. In return, the states must work to build strong organizations at the county and precinct level. He says that he trusts the state parties to do what works in their states; the DNC will make sure they have the training and resources necessary. "We don't believe in a cookie-cutter operation."

      He hit a lot of familiar themes, saying we will be running on fiscal responsibility and small government. (Small government in this case means making your own private decisions instead of letting Tom Delay make them.) Local communities should run local schools, not the federal government. He mentioned that the Bush administration, not content with going after Social Security, is now after private pensions. "That money doesn't belong to United Airlines; it belongs to the workers who contracted to work for it." He wants to make pensions portable.

      He repeated his familiar line about the US being the last industrialized nation without health insurance for all. On national defense, he said the Democrats have to convince Americans that we're "tough enough to pull the trigger." (Note: that makes me cringe, but he's right.) He said that the current administration has sent 135,000 troops to Iraq while doing nothing about Iran and Korea and that they "can't tell the difference between a threat and a nuisance."

      He wants to turn the DNC into looking outward, not inward. He said that too many resources were devoted to reaching out to people already in the party and that we need to do outreach to those who aren't in the party. Chris Owen from the AFL-CIO is heading up a new outreach program concentrating on African-Americans, Latinos, and women. Dean said we are not going to show up in African-American communities four weeks before the election; we're going to show up now.

      Since values are a hot topic, Dean reiterated Democratic values: no child goes to bed hungry, an education system with opportunity for all, not leaving debt to your children, treating everyone with dignity, caring for the poor. He quoted Jim Wallis as saying "the Bible mentions caring for the poor 3,000 times; it doesn't mention gay marriage at all."

      He said that as he travels, he makes himself available for small press operations, such as constituency papers and weeklies.

      All of this went down well with the DNC members. He seems really well liked by the crowd, which is interesting as many of these folks were not initially happy about him winning the chairmanship.

      By Jenny Greenleaf   3:07 pm     Party Process: Dems

      •  and more (4.00)
        ...clearly Dean is a failure?

        Why Howard Dean is good for the Democratic Party

        I've been closely observing Howard Dean for a lot longer than most national political watchers. I first ran into him when I worked for Vermont's Independent Congressman Bernie Sanders. There, I got a close-up look at his governing style. Then, like everyone else, I watched his run for President and DNC Chairman. I'll be really honest - for a long time, I had mixed feelings about him. For many reasons, I never really got on the Dean 2004 bandwagon, even though I was impressed with him in a lot of ways (I think it was mainly because I had trouble pinning him down ideologically). But in recent months, I really have been impressed with him. And after spending some time with him yesterday at the DNC's Western Caucus meetings here in Helena, I've decided my recent inklings about him really are valid. Dean, even with his minor imperfections, is very good for the national Democratic Party.

        Dean governed Vermont as a moderate, but ran for President as a populist progressive - which tended to confuse me. But when his progressive message caused controversy and when the media pressure was on for him to abandon that message, he essentially stuck to his guns in trying to give voice to the progressive fight.

        In doing so, of course, Democratic "centrists" viciously attacked him during the Presidential campaign (I put "centrists" in quotes because I think the term is a misnomer). And now, former GOP/Christian Coalition operatives like Marshall Wittman - who hilariously call themselves Democratic "centrists" and pretend to speak for Democrats - continue to underhandedly attack Dean even today. These "centrists" think they do themselves a favor with such disloyalty. But what they have actually done is unify a strong contingent of the Democratic base around Dean. For his part, Dean understands that these centrist elites will never be his base of support within the party (nor should a chairman want them to be). So he has a political incentive to stay on the populist progressive message as DNC Chairman. In other words, the grassroots and the progressive wing of the party have become crucial to his political career/survival - and that's who he is going to fight for. Say what you will about his transformation from governor to DNC Chairman, I'm glad he's on progressives' side.

        Certainly, that is scary to the insulated Washington, D.C. Democratic establishment. For years, these insiders have been able to handpick chairmen to make sure the party doesn't move back to its grassroots, middle-class roots. That explains their anger at him, and their subsequent attacks.  more ...

      •  nice.. (none)
        they "can't tell the difference between a threat and a nuisance."

        that's a good way of putting it. of course, its easier now, back when the war was starting, anyone who called iraq only a 'nuisance' was laughed out of DC..

        alcohol and night swimming. it's a winning combination!-l.leonard

        by chopper on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 04:51:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  You're astute (4.00)
      It is clear to me that Dean is the ultimate realist.  He knows it is a waste of time trying to appeal to dyed-in-the-wool Republicans.  He's building a party.  A real party filled with party loyalists.  That way, even if the GOP continues to dominate they will be met with REAL resistance every step of the way.
  •  your best diary ever, robert (4.00)
    al from is on the payroll of the us chamber of commerce, the most anti-democratic and anti-progressive organization out there, bar none. the NRA is more progressivew than the CoC. the christian coalition is more progressive than thew CoC.

    the RNC is more progressive than the CoC.

    al from is ONLY in it for the money.

    and for carville, i almost don't wan't to get started on this ruthless charlatain. let me simply add this: the vile right-wing b he sleeps with, mary matalin, was asked last december by don imus about carville. they had been taking long vacations in europe and the like.

    (i remember it like yesterday)

    imus: so, how is jimmy doing?

    matalin: he's fine. he's great

    imus: no, i mean, how is he doing?

    matalin: he's fine.

    imus: i mean, with the election and all. he has to be down, right?

    matalin: no, he's fine. he's great.


  •  great diary Bob (4.00)
    as I highlighted in my latest, Dr. Dean made quiet an impression in Seattle over the weekend:

    To Dean, a message change means Democrats can no longer let Republicans set campaign agendas and force Democrats to respond defensively -- among "a number of reasons" Dean listed as why "we didn't win the election."

    The next two points of the strategy seek to tap energized Democrats in beating Republicans at their own game: mobilizing the party's base and recruiting new members through old school, shoe-leather campaigning.

    First, Dean soon will put four DNC-funded field directors in all 50 states for four-year commitments -- even in Mississippi, Kansas, and the reddest of the red states -- to organize, mobilize and conduct outreach efforts.

    "We need to be everywhere," he said. "There's no such thing as a red state or a blue state, only purple states."

    Next, Dean said the party must rally minorities and women early, or "reach out to our core constituency now -- not wait until Election Day." During the last presidential election, the party took for granted such traditional Democrats, and paid for it: For instance, Democrats lost ground with women in 2004, Dean said.

    "I would like to find a woman to be the next mayor of Spokane," he said, adding that citizens turn to women to restore trust after public scandals.

    Dean's schedule yesterday seemed to underscore his plan for engaging women and minorities. Before meeting with the women's political group yesterday, he attended events hosted by black and Asian Pacific islander groups.

    "We'd like to knock on every door ... and have an interaction with every woman, every African American, every Hispanic in the country."

    Dean's message seemed to resonate with the choir.

    Tom Golan, a Bainbridge Island resident who was a Dean delegate in 2004, said he applauds the message of fiscal conservatism Dean brings to the Democratic Party.

    "I think he can help us get our financial house in order," he said.

    Twelve-year-old Rose Petersky, a sixth-grader from Bellevue who'd already seen Dean speak once before in Idaho, said she admires Dean as "the only politician I know who really speaks his mind."

    "I think there's hope for us," she added after hearing Dean's speech.

    All the money raised at the fund-raiser yesterday will help the Women's Leadership Forum -- a Democratic organization formed in 1994 -- with its outreach efforts in getting women involved in the political process, said forum Executive Director Pamela Eakes. Organizers did not say how much was raised yesterday; tickets were selling at the door for $25.

    "Whenever a Voice of Moderation addresses liberals, its sole purpose is to stomp out any real sign of life." - James Wolcott

    by Madman in the marketplace on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 04:05:10 AM PDT

  •  This Diary proves they are still winning! (4.00)
    I am amazed how some "Did you hear what Dean said," chit-chat on Fox and Friends can metastize into the top recommended diary on DailyKos.

    The rightwing media manipulators have convinced Democrats that the party is in chaos. They artifically inflate the importance of Dean's position and influence. They create the myth that Dean is the voice of the left.

    They push any story about Dean's strong opinions. Their talking heads chit chat about it. The right does all the talking, and liberals are rhetorical devices for their Dr. Phil routines: "Let me give you some advice. If Democrats ever want to be elected to any office again, you need to listen to what I have to say about Dean (or Hillary, or Gays, whatever)".

    Eventually, we actually begin to believe their controversy. Senate and House Democrats are asked to account for the comments of a democrat who has never won a federal seat. Even considering our minority status -- Dean doesn't hold the power we have been convinced he is abusing.

    If it is the influence of office that makes Dean important, then the RNC chairman must not be doing a very good job either -- I don't even know who it is, and I watch a lot of CSPAN. While Dean is a household name to Fox viewers, I bet 95% of them could not name his Republican equivalent.

    We know their agenda of divide and conquer. We know the game thye are playing. We even know the rules. But they are still able to manipulate us.

    Maybe being unenlightened or disinterested is a blessing. Brainwashing is only distressing if you know your brain is being washed. And hung out to dry.

  •  Dems better clean up their act (4.00)
    quickly or they have lost me for ever. I absolutely despise the so-called insiders. They ARE the Vichy Democrats.

    Elected Democrats that are undermining Howard Dean, hear me now: CUT OUT THE CRAP or I will work for a third-party candidate for the rest of my life.

    Ken Mehlman lied on Meet the Press about the Downing Street Minutes. He then repeated Cheney's lies about Saddam's reconstituted nuclear weapons.

    by lecsmith on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 05:01:41 AM PDT

  •  Ed Schultz has also... (none)
    ...been ripping Dean for his supposed failings as a fundraiser.
  •  It is (4.00)
    These "Clinton only" insiders, unwilling to give Dean a chance, let alone their support, who make me so enraged that I will most likely remain an Independent my entire life. They are so rigid and shortsighted in their beliefs that they cannot even recognize when their party is broken...

    It is because of THEM, that I would never vote for Hillary. The worst thing the Democrats could do is let those same "insiders" take control of the party again...

  •  John Edwards and Joe Biden didn't have the balls (4.00)
    to vote against Bush's illegal war against Iraq and neither did Kerry. I accepted their lack of courage and made all kinds of excuses for them before the election. BUT NOT AFTER NOVEMBER 2nd, 2004.

    These people are protecting their little fiefdoms and do not want power to devolve to the grassroots. What would Joe MBNA Biden do if he didn't have his big corporate contributors?

    Why do elected Democrats hate the Democratic grass roots?

    Ken Mehlman lied on Meet the Press about the Downing Street Minutes. He then repeated Cheney's lies about Saddam's reconstituted nuclear weapons.

    by lecsmith on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 05:16:23 AM PDT


    Also, this seems to be a repetitive diary of your diary the other day.

    Is it just me, or do you just want to be on the recommended list?

  •  I don't get Dean (4.00)
    He's head of the NATIONAL committee and he spends all his time running around these states.

    Dean is neglecting his main duty of being availiable to the national media 24/7.

    Why, o why, would Dean prefer to meet with a bunch of local yocals when he could be spending quality time with Wolf, Judy, Tim, Chris, and Sean?

    Dean must have a screw loose.

    Let us all send Dean an email and tell him that the national media misses him. Maybe that will get his attention.

    Freedom does not march.

    by ex republican on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 05:39:28 AM PDT

  •  In my worthy opinion and after some thought on (none)
    this issue, I have come to a conclusion. As far as the ones who demand dems answer to certain ppl, they can shove that in where the sun does not shine.

    If they do not want my money, then they wont get it.  But if I want, I will give it to Mr. Dean.  Not to them.  I think they have gotten the big head thinking they are better than any of us out here.  I think they think they are masters and we are slaves.  I beg to differ here. it is like is all of politics, when they think the only ppl that matter are the big doners, they ahve not got my vote on anyting...they need to read what the constitution says aboutthis...this is a government of and by the ppl.    I do not respect anyone who wants to push me to the back of the bus for anything or anyone.  That time is way past for any citizen.  

    I agree with y ou Bob.  They are just plain wrong on this one....but look at the source...biden and edwards have lost my respect.  Leiberman never had it in the first place....

  •  Biden et al, grow a set! (none)
    And while you're at it, get a humor transplant. That remark about a lot of Rethugs never working an honest day in their lives was funny!  How embarrassing that we have to explain that to these humorless prigs.

    On the plus side, though, this is breaking ground for a winning, anti-Washington-Insider strategy in 2006. Let's all get behind some real Democrats -- and send the Bidenites off to Vichy, where they belong.

  •  This ( Dean bashing) reminds me (4.00)
    of the DLC memo that From and Reed sent out at the beginning of Dean's presidential campaign. It feels the same. Party insiders afraid of losing power to the grassroots.

    They achieved their objective with their anti-Dean campaign. Dean was not the nominee. But, they weren't expecting him to be DNC chair. I'm sure they thought he would just go home to Vermont and disappear off the radar.


    What they don't understand is Dean is not their problem. It's the grassroots. He woke us up and gave us direction. We're not going to stay home. We want our place at the table.

    Change is hard to accept.

  •  recommended (none)
    great diary.  you said what I have been thinking...
  •  This is (none)
    as important a diary as I've seen lately.

    Thank you for this--there REALLY needs to be a way to circle wagons for what Dean is doing....I'll be talking to my state's (TX) party people about this.

  •  Classic Case of Co-Option (4.00)
    Excellent Dairy!

    As I have been saying, the same "loyal" Democrats who conspired to disembowel Dean in Iowa, and who worked behing the scences to stop his bid for the Chair of the DNC are now actively engaged in a "fragging".

    These Republican Lite, DLC types want to finish Dean off for good, and then co-opt his message, our money and our votes.

    The capital/political classes want Dean stopped.  He is a threat to their total control over the econmic/government policies of wealth concentration and profit acceleration that is weakening the middle class and crushing the working class.

    Dean is the last, viable national political figure who understands the differences between a democratic capitalistic society and the current plutocratic/corporatist society, and has the courage to speak openly about the differences.

    I'm done with the Democratic Party.  It doesn't represent anything significantly different (and I don't want to hear about judges or stem cell or or choice) from the gang of reverse robin hood thieves and militarist in control today.

    Fuck the DLC, the Clintons, Biden, Edwards, Carville, CNN and all of the other so-called "centrists" Democrat.

    Come on Howard ... let's take our country back!  

    By the way ... who the fuck does Biden speak for?  MNBA?  And one term Johnny, who does he represent?  He can't even deliver his home state.

    He fellows ... look behind you ... no one in following!  



  •  The DLCers Objective: (none)
    They want to make Dean and those who support him leave the party and take their "left-leaning" "liberal" "progressive" ideas with them. The reasons why are mostly to do with ego, greed and the fact that these are Dems who dislike the GOP establishment, but only because they're not in it or of it.

    So, let's make sure that Dean stays, and all of the waffle-prone, spineless, ersatz-GOP beltway insiders take their wishy-washy, gutless, amoral politics with them. Perhaps they can call themselves The Mediocrity Party?

    "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

    by thingamabob on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 06:07:40 AM PDT

    •  yupe (none)
      The DLC-er are feeling the pinch. Their republican lite clients go straight to republican, while the real working class and regular folks got sick of their inability to do anything.

      DLC is not effective and reality finally cought up with them. (of course CLintons just got massive injection with those Tsunami's money and stuff, so DLC isn't down and out yet.)

  •  I Am Howard Dean's Special Interest (4.00)
    No, not that way.  It's just that my $50. donation to attend a Dean attended DNC fundraiser is more important to Dean than kissing up to special interest groups.

    Terrific diary.  And as has been said over and over for days now, it's time for Democrats to stop eating their own.  Howard Dean is a gift to the Democratic Party.

  •  The 50 state campaign in under way (4.00)
    Send the DNC some love.

    50 states
    3081 counties
    192,480 precincts

    No precinct left behind.

    The revolution starts now--in your own back yard, in your own home town

    by TarheelDem on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 06:17:05 AM PDT

    •  Yes, make it monthly. (none)
      If you can afford to sign up for a monthly contribution from your credit card, do so.  It makes it much easier to plan programs, if you know you have a steady income stream.

      Fifteen or twenty bucks each and every month will make a big difference if everyone joins in.

      I may be wrong, but it's my suspicion that Dean hasn't been sharing his list with the DCCC and the DSCC like Terry did just before he left.  That may be another reason why the Senators are irked.

      Renting and selling lists of addresses is also big business.  It's the one our friends the Eberles are in.
      Electronic media now set advertising rates on the basis of how many clicks they get and how many new addresses they can collect.  I just hope John Conyers isn't going to sell the names of those who sign his petition.

      3-D Republicans=division, deceit, debt

      by hannah on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 08:04:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Dean can go ahead and share my name... (none)
        ...I'd be happy to get a money request from the DCCC and DSCC and have the opportunity to tell them, thanks but no thanks, my money goes to Howard at the DeaNC every month. When he became chairman, I signed up for the $50 a month plan. If they run him out of Dodge, my money goes away from the Dems FOREVER. I would love the opportunity to reiterate this message to them!
  •  While I like Dean, this kind of bothers me (none)
    I wish  more people questioned the idea (which Dean, unfortunately, encourages more than he should) that everything associated with "Washington" is bad and horrible, and everybody that worked for the DNC before Dean came to town is an incompetent moron.  This is a point that deserves its own diary, which I wish I had time to write.  

    Also, while I'm not a huge fan of Terry McAullife, does anyone have any proof that he actually took limousines every time he left Washington?  I need more than an Alternet article to make me believe that.  

    •  Populism (none)
      Populism begins with the not unfounded assumption of the venality of elites.  Few would say that the Beltway Dem consultantocracy are incompetent morons; very competent and getting invited to chi-chi Georgetown soirees; not at all moronic about ways to line their pockets with corporate cash.  Such populism is the ancient and well-founded wisdom of the American people.
  •  Let the party know -Get behind Howard (4.00)
    I sent a letter to Senator Boxer yesterday talking about my state needing money to level the playing field of campaigns. I live in the home of the phone jamming scandal, which had a razor sharp senate win for Republicans due to the above? More than likely. I urged BB to get behind Dean. The media went after him because he called them out and said he was coming for them to. Shortly thereafter we witnessed the Dean Scream, minus the roar of the crowd. Face it they fear him or anyone else that speaks truth to power. They fear us to, we need to get the internets to the masses and level the playing field. Howard is the future of the democratic part party. I voted for him in the primary and had a tough time due to the fact i thought we had a lot of good men running. We need to change the way they go after each other in the primarys also. How do you do tag lines in italics, god i love this site
  •  It was Howard Dean who (4.00)
    brought me very close to viewing myself as a Democrat. It was avaricious leeches like James Carville who kept me far away from the Democrats for the 90's. Every time I hear someone like Biden or Carville I am reminded of why my voter registration went back to Independent after the November elections.
    •  In defense of Carville (none)
      I have to say that Carville's books (especially "We're Right, They're Wrong") just about perfectly sum up everything Democrats stand for, and offer a lot of ways to attack Republicans.  

      Has Carville been criticizing Dean?  I checked both of the links in this diary, and I didn't see anything other than one statement in this diary that supports that.  Can someone cite a Carville attack on Dean?  

      •  He attacked Dean in 2003/2004 (none)
        I don't know or care what he's saying now. I never trusted the Clintonistas. Many of them seem to be very selfish people who only care about their bank accounts, their media image, and their speaking fees. Look at what George Stephanpolous has gotten up to since '96. I've never known exactly what advice Carville has given that has helped any recent campaigns. What baffles me the most is that he seems to spend so much time "ragin" at members of his own party. I think these people don't want the GOP to be taken out of power, because that gives them less competition.
        •  You can think whatever you want (none)
          About the Clintonistas, but I think that Clinton was our best president since at least JFK, and I'm very proud I voted for him.  Also, he won two elections, which means that he did something right.  And while I totally agree with you about Stephanopolous (what a money-grubbing traitor he is!), I wouldn't judge the Clinton administration by only those two people.  
          •  He won two elections thanks to Perot (none)
            and weak GOP nominees. All I tend to think about when I think of Clinton is the man who helped end any Democratic power in America.
            •  You can think what you want about Clinton, but (none)
              I still think he (like anybody who GENUINELY wins an election, as opposed to G. W. Bush) deserves a lot of credit for his victories, and while I agree with you that he didn't do anywhere near enough for the party, I think he did do a lot of good for the progressive cause, and I'm proud to have voted for him.  I think that one cause of the bad poll numbers we now see for Bush is nostalgia for the relatively peaceful and prosperous Clinton era.  Clinton does not deserve all of the credit for that era, but I think he deserves some of it.  
      •  His attacks were frequent and snide (none)
        up until a few months ago.  He has weakly defended Dean on Crossfire a few times lately.  Usually he declines to say anything when Dean is attacked.
        Bon Voyage, Crossfire.
    •  It still is Howard Dean (4.00)
      that makes me have any interest in the Democratic Party.  It is astounding to me how the Democratic Party has consistently been out flanked in their pathetic attempts to play by republican rules. Howard Dean is changing the's about time someone did.  

      The pendulum always swings...hurry up and swing pendulum.

      by trinityfly on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 08:41:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  In's it's easy to understand (4.00)
    in a POLITICAL sense.


    "Let the intelligent read and understand, and let the ignorant stay that way." From the earliest known piece of writng. A Mesopotamian shopping list. Nice.

    by Arthur Gilroy on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 06:35:41 AM PDT

  •  PLEASE don't throw me in the briar patch! (4.00)
    I find myself taking perverse comfort in the mass perception that dean is doing a terrible job.  On fringe-right discussion groups, they're downright CROWING about him, calling Dean the last nail in the Democrats' coffin, imitating the Iowa scream, and in general acting like King Turd of Shit Mountain, rather than getting scared and building defenses.

    By 2006, I expect their mocking laughter will turn to surprised gasps, and then to wails of fear.

    For a lot of nice people who vote in regions yet to turn blue, the spectacle of business-as-usual elite Democratic pols whining about Dean is not likely to turn them off Dean.  Instead, it's a sure sign that this guy might be doing something right.

    Would I be giving Biden et al too much credit if I imagined that maybe they'd considered this, too?

    "Hit a man with a fish, and he'll have a headache for a day. Teach him to hit himself with a fish, and he'll have headaches all his life!"--Karl Rove

    by AdmiralNaismith on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 06:40:39 AM PDT

    •  way to much credit... (none)
      Would you be giving Biden et al too much credit if you imagined that maybe they'd considered this, too?

      in a word...YES.

      "Not even Revelations threatens a plague of vengeful yahoos." H. S. Thompson

      by KnotIookin on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 07:33:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  One more complaint about Dean (none)
    I really wish Dean hadn't said that thing about Democrats taking the black vote for granted; I believe that that is simply not true, and that Democrats who say that are repeating right-wing talking points, something that Dean usually does an admirable job avoiding.  Rather than repeating all my arguments against the taking-black-voters-for-granted idea, I'll just post a link to my previous diary about it.
    •  Sadly it is true (4.00)
      I really wish Dean hadn't said that thing about Democrats taking the black vote for granted; I believe that that is simply not true, and that Democrats who say that are repeating right-wing talking points
    •  Just ask some Black People (none)
      that should clear it up for you.  Dean was right.
      •  I know lots of black people (none)
        And I live in a majority-black county where Democrats get 80% of the vote in just about every election, and I've never heard anyone I know say this.  I've only heard it from commentators, and interestingly, I think I've heard it more from white commentators than black ones.  
        •  uh... (none)
          come back to reality
          •  Very well grounded in reality, thanks (none)
            And I note with interest this poll, which says that 60% of the black voters polled did NOT believe that the Democratic party takes their votes for granted.  It disappoints me that one-third of the respondents DID think so, so I think that the Democratic party still has some reaching out to do, but clearly, this is not a majority opinion in the African-American community.  

            Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo, and Joe Conason in his book Big Lies, said it best.  Black voters are not stupid; they know what they are doing when they are voting, and to argue that they are so easily fooled that they would continue to vote for a party that "takes them for granted" is, ultimately, repeating a GOP talking point.  The Repubs cannot simultaneously be the party of anti-black white resentment AND be a party that gets lots of black support.  Liberals shouldn't help them try.  

  •  I spoke with my father about Dean... (4.00)
    My father is a huge Republican, and I spoke with him as a news story on how some Dems want Dean out of hte DNC seat, and we actually agreed that Dean is what is good for the dems. We both agreed that many of the rich Democratic senators were so out of touch with people (something thats been said in other diaries talking about how to win back the people) and it rang true to my ears.

    I'm so excited to have Dean leading the party. My father and I also laughed at (I think it was) Edwards who said "The DNC Chairman is not the head of the party." Yeah, well, neither is a one time senator and failed vice presidential candidate who was only picked because he looks good.

    I love Howard.

    "In such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners." -Albert Camus.

    by BrianL on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 07:26:52 AM PDT

  •  Biden has been in too long (none)
    I was shocked he ripped Dean on This Week on Sunday, but not now after reading that.  Biden and the other DC insiders have been in control too long and its time for us in the hitherlands to take back control of the party.  Howard Dean will lead us back into power.
  •  Front Page Please - for all to see this shit (none)
    Howard I dig ya man - keep on keepin on.
    Give Howard a fair playing field - we need to rid ourselves of the Clintonistas. They do not speak for me as a Democrat. Progressives need to speak out and support Howard 100%. It is our only hope to reverse the 2000-2002-2004 defeat slide.
    Clintonistas and the DLC are recking the Party - needless to say attacking Progressives every chance they get.
    Makes one wonder if we will ever be the majority party again. Shame.
  •  Fundraising is big business. (4.00)
    Fundraising, especially direct mail is big business.  It keeps consultants, pollsters, soppy letter-writers, printers, graphic artists, etc. employed on a full-time basis.  Most of these people not only sit in D.C. but are an adjunct of the lobbyists.  It's not unusual for the fundraising expense to come to more than half of what is raised.  Sometimes it goes as high as 90%.

    So, under "normal" circumstances, if Dean is aiming at raising $15 mil, the industry might expect to take in $5 mil for themselves.  But, if the DNC continues to rely on internet and electronic collection (which only costs about 3% in credit card fees) then he "saves" that expense, which he, no doubt, intends to do.

    After all, Dean has announced that he wants staff in all 50 states.  Where one in each seemed initially ambitious, now he's talking about 4 in each.  If you figure $50,000 per position, you're looking at $10 mil going to the states--not to pollsters and direct-mailers and consultants in D.C.

    So, why are they telling big donors not to give?  Because it's not likely to get into their own pockets or the pockets of their friends.  Same with the TV networks.  If Dean is spending money on the ground and in local markets, the corporate fat-cats are cut out of the loop.  Although it's not supposed to be that way, the volume of free media coverage for candidates has always been related to how much coverage they can afford to buy.

    3-D Republicans=division, deceit, debt

    by hannah on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 07:48:24 AM PDT

  •  A smart Democrat would say: (4.00)
    TALKING HEAD: "What's your reaction to the statement by Howard Dean that Republicans have never worked an honest day in  their lives? What do you think he meant by it? Do you agree with it?"

    SMART DEMOCRAT: Ask Dean what he meant by it. Next question?

    "Lash those conservatives and traitors with the pen of gall and wormwood -- let them feel -- no temporising!" -- Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1837

    by Ivan on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 08:03:56 AM PDT

  •  Bill Moyers on Dean in the Primaries (3.87)
    MOYERS: So Howard Dean committed what pros say could be a terminal no-no. He got so hot under the collar in a cool medium that his campaign seemed to melt down right before our eyes.

    Someone put his Monday night bombast to music and the cable channels and rightwing radio jocks are playing it over and over. Pundits and opponents hinted he came unhinged and is "unfit for higher office."

    Even some faithful Democratic voters were shaken at the sight of a candidate sounding more like a pugilist than a President.

    Horrified, the doctor's gurus called in the cosmetic team who worked overnight on a full makeover: softer tones. More pastels. A touch more wonkery about healthcare. Dignity, Doctor, dignity on the media's terms -- even if to get it the other Dr. Dean, his wife, had to leave her examining room and patients to sit for an interview with Diane Sawyer.

    The media want penitence, Doctor -- penitence, served up with a dash of tact and deference -- with cultural cool. I don't know Howard Dean, have never met him. I don't have a horse in this race. But I've been around long enough to know that on Monday night he did violate the 11th commandment of the medium-as-message: Thou shalt not be intemperate before a microphone. Unless, of course, you are intemperate on talk radio, or cable television, where fortune smiles on the bully and fame rewards excess.

    A lot of people are gloating over Howard Dean's foot-in-the-mouth disease. Among them, says Tina Brown in THE WASHINGTON POST, are establishment Democrats -- the big-money guys -- who are breathing easier now that Vermont's Don Quixote has crashed his noble Rocinante into the windmill. With all that money raised from the internet rabble, with malcontents and idealists rallying to his side, with so much pent-up rage at a system that allows you to pick the public's pockets as long as you do it with a smile and hurrah and good manners. Well, Howard Dean was just too unfashionably independent and unpredictable for comfort inside the beltway.

    The cameras caught him in flagrante politico, the unpardonable sin: daring to let go, losing it in the cause.

    So the picture I'll remember from the week is not of the candidate as raging bull, but this one: his subdued young followers, made suddenly aware of sudden death brought on by an overdose of spontaneity in an age where only the image counts.

    That's it for now. David Brancaccio and I will be back next week.

    I'm Bill Moyers. Goodnight.

  •  how about a campaign (none)
    to commit elected democrats from unjustly criticizing each other in public?  we talk and talk about it - and we bring it up - but what about a more focussed watchgroup effort??

    the idea is to get signees to commit in writing, to publish the results and to monitor and punish transgressors.  there must be a distinction, however, between valid and invalid public criticism.  there is a time and a place for public criticism but the democrats have no idea what the line is and in my opinion they cross it way too many times.

    any thoughts?

    To thine own self be true - Polonius to Laertes

    by tedward on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 08:33:35 AM PDT

  •  The Establishment is Why Dems Have Been Losing n/t (none)

    Wars of choice are wars of crime.

    by TX Unmuzzled on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 10:13:19 AM PDT

  •  I think we all know what a great job the (none)
    "insiders" have done for the last two presidential elections. When will it occur to these idiots that we need to refocus the way we have done business in the past so that we can WIN again? I swear I think some of these DC "insiders" have actually signed loyalty oaths to the Republican party! Give 'em hell Howie!
  •  The "Right" People!!!! (4.00)
    I know this phrase implies the "correct" people, but it is significant to me that "right" means, in our culture, both "conservative" or "fundamentalist" AND correct.

    That's how deep the framing goes.

    Seems Dean is bugging the Democratic Party because he's not raising money from "the right people" but rather from us nubbins.

    The Democratic representatives in power now may ry and take the man down, even though he's doing everything he can to do the Party good.

    Edwards backed waaay off, I see, but Biden hasn't.

    I smell a Clintonista war abrewing.  Hillary wants the dough he can raise, then she's going to sandbag Dean.

    Talking about killing the goose who laid!

    They would rather splinter the Democratic Party into shreds than empower we, the people.

    This is simply another symptom of the growing chasm between those in power, in both parties, and the people of this great country.

  •  Dean cleans up the temple (none)
    and the moneychangers whine.
  •  It's all about the Beltway Insiders Business Model (4.00)
    Internet-based campaigning and fundraising threaten the revenue streams of two important groups of Washington insiders, the funraising consultants and the media consultants. Both are traditionally paid on percentage commissions, rather than salaries or monthly retainers.

    Internet-based fundraising undermines the business model of the Democratic fundraising consultants. Since the most wealthy Democrats tend to be geographically concentrated in a few areas, these people make their money off their abaility to get past the gatekeepers for "A-List" folks on the Georgetown-Kalorama-Hollywood-Upper East Side social circuit.  They also have a close, very symbiotic, relationship with the Democratic media consultants, to whom they steer business -- you generally have to hire a "Bob Shrum" type to get the top fundraisers to work for you -- and the media consultants made their money on commissions for TV ads.

    This implies two things: grassroots fundraising on the Internet is a big threat to the commission-based business model of the fundraising consultants, and Internet-based advertising is a threat to the media consultants. Since they have such a close relationship in terms of steering business to each other, anything which treatens one group threatens the other as well.

    This is the key thing people need to understand -- the resistance to change is all about the existing way of doing business. It's all about the $$$$$ flows.

  •  I know the Washington faux-Dems hate Dean, but.. (none)
    ..guess what, they don't matter. The people who matter are at local DNC organizations - the boots who will win us elections. Those are the people Dean is working with. Those are the only people worth a shit in this whole equation. As for the Dem insiders, I could care less if they leave and join the GOP. They are a bunch of whores who are unable to grasp what the true Democratic values are, and how they have been undercutting them all these years.

    Mikhail Khaimov San Francisco, CA

    by Tsarrio on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 11:16:19 AM PDT

  •  I just called the DNC (4.00)
    to give my thanks to Howard Dean for speaking out on behalf of me and my fellow Democrats.  They connected me to his office which then gave me his voice mail.  They said he listens to it every night.  I told him that I'm involved in politics now because of him and that I thought he was the heart and soul of our party.  I also told him that I just made an online donation, that I give monthly, and that I will continue to give as long as he continues to be chairman of the party and to speak out.

    Here is their number if anyone else wants to call and offer support:

    Why do you care...whether the people running the government have good values? Wouldn't you prefer a bit of competence, if forced to choose?" --Michael Kinsley

    by Susan S on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 11:22:21 AM PDT

  •  Keep doing what you're doing, Howard (none)
    And ignore those Dem insiders who have lost, gosh, how many national elections is it now?

    It's a new era in the Democratic Party...

  •  Ok, I just have to chime in here (4.00)
    I don't support the idea that all Dems should fall in line, even if it is behind Dean.  I don't think we can ask Edwards or Biden to clamp it shut.  They have a right to disgree with him and express it.  I mean, I'm not going to stop voicing my opinion of them!  And I really had a problem last year when Kerry would say and do things I disaproved of but I was told to show no public criticism of him because it was bad for the Party, for the elections.  Fall in line.

    Throw your strategy cream pies at me, but Party unity isn't really high on my list of values.

    And my problem isn't that someone publicly criticized Howard, the Chair, the Man, our last best hope.  Heck, I am sure I fall into the "fringy Deaniac" club, and even I criticize the man.

    My problem is the double standard.  The hipocracy.  

    It's all God Bless America and pass the apple pie when Bush wants to invade a country.  It's all Leno jokes and watercooler snickers when Bush forgets how to use the English language. It's all roll your eyes and throw up your hands when Tom Delay breaks another law.  It's all fine and dandy to vote to screw the American people so you can brag about your bipartisanship skills and get invited to lunch with the Big Boys.

    But Howard says something controversial and STOP the World!  Every Democrat in DC wants to be sure they have gone on the record disagreeing with him!

    Would it were that they had the same courage of conviction about anything that ACTUALLY meant anything. They won't go on the record against the war, for women's rights, for universal healthcare, for gay marriage, etc.  But you can quote them on their opinion of Dean.

    And we wonder why we lose elections...  Puhleeze.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire

    by poemless on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 11:51:06 AM PDT

    •  I agree (none)
      with this -

      "My problem is the double standard.  The hippocracy."

      I also agree with the idea that these politicians must stop spending their energy and ruining issues with this internal sniping, grandstanding, and backstabbing.

      I don't care who owns what issue when, I simply care that the rules are fair and followed; I care that our democratic system of government is being used, not abused, by those presently in power; I want my representatives to REPRESENT me.

      Let's feed people, give sick people health care, and get our children educated, and implement real measures to improve our national security and facilitate peace in the world.

      After all these tasks are accomplished, and only then, if silly, insecure politicians want to snipe at each other over lunch or in secret meeting rooms or on the dais, they are welcome to their stupid games.

      Not one inch.

    •  Old Dems vs New (none)
      for the last 10 years they've fiddled whilst Rome burned down around them.  They need to retire.  New Dems are the minority and need to act like it.  Bitch, Moan, Oppose, etc ., till we get back in the majority, and then, again, actually do good.

      When all else fails...panic

      by David in Burbank on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 04:49:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Remember, Edwards wanted to fight in Ohio (none)
    I agree that Edwards could have phrased things better...but remember, Edwards was not a wuss--he wanted to count ALL votes--it was Kerry who shut things down and conceded  Ohio and Florida. Kerry failed to see the merit of determining what was actually going on with the voting machines...and the merit of keeping the MSM focused on voting, regardless of the outcome.  Edwards wanted to fight.  I'd trust him any day over Kerry, let alone that wimp Biden.  Edwards is in a tough position--but I like him better than Clark and Kerry.  Clark has many times sounded a weak note when confronted by Repub outrageousness.  Dean's tone was excellent, but his message needs to be honed to avoid being mischaracterized.  
    As for being tough, I agree with everyone who sees that the politics of accomodation is a losers game. And it is always a mistake to criticize Dean--the politics of apology projects the type of weakness that keep Democrats from being a winning team.  Why don't the Democrats learn?  What is it that keeps them from learning from their mistakes?  
    Gore learned. If you notice, the same folks who criticize Dean make fun of Gore as well.  And what do they have in common--They both are tough on Republicans and their abuse of power.  As for me, I'm on the Hilary bandwagon.  Before, I believed she couldn't win--now, I think she is the only one who can.  Her last speech blasted the
    Repubs.  You don't hear her blasting Dean.
  •  Biden on our side? (none)
    Not all Democrats are on our side!  They are playing a dangerous game attacking Dean...They will have no party left.....Biden voted FOR Iraq and FOR "bankruptcy reform"!  Hmm with friends like Biden who needs Republicans?
  •  Dean does everything better than McAuliffe ... (none)
    except, of course, sell out our party to the GOP.

    For that reason alone, he's the best thing that's happened to us in ages.

    I only hope he doesn't "learn to play the game" and, well, basically sell us out like his predecessor did.

  •  How can we back Dean up? (none)
    Give us hard-core tasks to do so we can help!
    •  Money & Time (none)
      Give your money and give your time.

      Contact your local Democratic Party and ask for opportunities to volunteer.  If the person you talk with doesn't get back to you within a week follow-up.

      Check out who is running for office in your area.  Meet the candidates, find one you feel confident in and volunteer for the campaign.

      There is some kind of campaign going on at all times.

      If the party and campaign angles don't work for you, find out if the party has organized your precinct.  If not, then do it yourself.

      Run for office yourself.

  •  convention (none)
    Maybe during the Kos convention, we should make a big deal of having elementary classes for Democratic "officials" on how to talk to the media: Curriculum: Republican Talking Points
  •  modern-dan Harry Truman (none)
    this line from the article describes Dean to a T:

    "he's flying coach, paying for his own bus tickets, and carrying his own bags"

    Can anyone imagine Terry Mac traveling by bus?  I think not.  

    What people are seeing is that Dean is an honest-to-god decent guy out there trying to do the right thing and change the country for the better.  I can't wait for the 2Q numbers to come out...

    PS, memo to Joe Biden -- shut the fuck up

    "I want my country back!" - Howard Dean (proud member, reality-based community)

    by ziggy on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 01:38:24 PM PDT

    •  Ziggy........... (none)
      I hope that you don't mind if I lift your comment to include in a letter to Biden. I need something to turn off that 'on/off'(like a light switch) smile.

      Everytime I see that clown I want to slap his face as he flashes that gawd awful phony politician smile.  He looks, acts & talks like a "Boss Hawg" from a bad movie.

      •  lift away (none)
        lift away -- Biden deserves to catch as much flak as possible for his pathetic impression of a Democratic U.S. senator.

        "I want my country back!" - Howard Dean (proud member, reality-based community)

        by ziggy on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 03:41:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Biden in Penalty Box (none)
    I'll cut Edwards some slack, especially after the blog posting. But not Biden. Biden and all those "Dems" like him have to be on notice - don't mess with Dean. Don't mess with other Democrats, at least not on those Sunday morning shows. The minute they pull something like that, we have to hammer them.

    And we have to keep on giving.  I loved donating for those red state party workers.

    I'll see my state party chair this week and hope to emphasize that the chairs have to stand strong for Dean, too.

  •  The power brokers can can take Dean down easily (none)
    And I am betting now that Dean will be asked to leave, or be forced to step down at least before the 2008 elections if not before the 2006 midterm elections.

    The high level positions in the party have enormous power to sway the state level Democrats, and you can yap all you want about how it appears that Dean is popular at the state levels, this is no more valid than all those who yapped about him having the lock on the nomination just two weeks before he was destroyed in Iowa. Before the scream ever hit the media.

    Both the media and the Washinton Democrats are sending Dean a warning. He is not powerful enough to ignore that warning, and he will be outted if he doe not heed it. pure and simple.

    •  Maybe (none)
      But Dean was put in place over the objections of the same Dem power brokers you describe and he has already started doling out money to state organizations.

      I think putting the genie back in the bottle may be a little more difficult than you suggest.

      If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

      by Bob Johnson on Tue Jun 07, 2005 at 07:24:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope (none)
        In the end what put Dean over the percentages he needed towin were two things.

        Congressional Democrats started throwing in behind him.

        Other candidates dropped out.

        There is no genie that was let out, there is nothing to prevent the power brokers, who hold a lot more voting clout from getting Dean out.

        Everyting being said about Dean being invincible now is a replay of hi invincibility before Iowa. His behavior right now is exactly the same as the behavior that killed his campaign before Iowa.

        My opinion is that this is the beginning of the removal of Dean from the position, and to do it where ther is some taint of disgrace involved, so that any hopes Dean has for running for the presidency are completely quashed.

        The idea that Dean is some kind of super politician who is going to be lifted up by the grassroots, is somew vague delusion that is only held by those who have some odd beleif that the people have much to say about this, whenm in fact, Deans core support in the general population never exceeded 20 percent, and this can be seen by how low the suppor for him fell very rapidly after Iowa. Within weeks of Iowa, Dena could not pull more than 20 percent except in Vermont, and in one case, by the end, even Al Sharpton got a greater  percentage of the votes for the nomination.

        Dean's supporters gratly overestimate the kind of support this guy actually has across the board from Democrats. And ther is a lot of dirt in Deans past related to who he had dealins with as governor just waiting to be developed, one being his sale of the Vermont Yankee Nuclear reactor to the major finacial backers of the neo-conservative movement in the United States, followed by Dean beginning to receive donations from the executives of the energy comapnies owned by these guys. These people figuired a way of donating 25 million dollars to the Bush campaign in 2000 and making it look like it came from small donors. This sale was one of Deans final acts as governor, and he had resisted all efforts to sell to other companies making offers just as good or better just months earlier.

        No one in politics is clean, and that also includes Dean. If he offends the right people, he is simply gone and you might cry into your beer about it, but there will be not thing one you can do about it.

        •  Look, I can take or leave Dean (none)
          But you are not the be all or end all on this subject, my friend, despite your condescension.

          We shall see.  There is no doubt the long knives are out for Dean.  We'll see what happens.

          If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

          by Bob Johnson on Wed Jun 08, 2005 at 07:53:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Power Brokers (none)
      The Democratic power brokers are between a rock and a hard place.

      If they kick Dean out of the chairmanship they first risk losing the money from small donors he has brought to the party. Second they have to deal with the possiblity of a well-funded Dean running for the party nomination in 2008.

      If they leave him in place they have to deal with a changed party structure that no longer favors the party brokers but the grassroots and the states.

      In either case Dean will likely continue doing exactly what he is doing, either as Democratic party chair or on behalf of Democracy for America, MoveOn, and similar organizations.

    •  Yep, the old has beens are angry................ (none)
      I predicted from the start that the old timer Dems would try to neuter Dean as soon as he was sworn in.

      As someone who was not originally a Dean fan, I am starting to like this guy.  The more he ticks off the Republican lites, (Biden, Liberman, etc.,) the better I like him.

      I think he has put the fear of God in the Republicans.  They talk about how bad he is for the Democrats and what they are really saying is how bad his is for Republicans!  

      Give'em Hell Howard!!

      •  Well (none)
        Flipping through the new channels yesterday, virtually all of the pundits discussing the Dean issue were pretty much backing up my premise, that this is the beginning of the removal of Dean from the DNC position, because ultimately Dean is working for the party, the party is not working for him, and this is a situation where what is best for the team is uppermost, and this is not a situation for Dean to use as a stomping ground for his own future political ambitions. The position calls for a person who cant take orders, not give them. Dean is their marketing department, and he has to produce a product that they like.

        Again the pundits pretty much indicate that the only reason they put Dean in this position was to keep him from running for the presidency in 2008, not because he can win, but because he cannot win, but he can draw enough voters away from a candidate who can win, and another factor that was consistant when Dean was compared to the other major candidates who were rinning for the nomination.

        In virtually every poll that polled Democrats and Republicans asking who they would vote for is Kerry was the nominee, If Hillary was the nominee ( they threw her in occasionally even though she was not running) If Gephardt was, etc.

        FOr all of the other candidates, there was about  10 percent cross party voting. About ten percent of Republicans said they would vote for Kerry, or Gepardt, or Clarke or any one of the other major candidates. Except for Dean. In the case of Dean there was a slight drop in the number of Republicans he could draw, but the case of Democrats, the number who said they would vote for Bush went up to between 18 and 20 percent virtually from the time all nine of the first batch of candidates threw their hatr in the ring. Dean had a core support in which he couls keep 20 percent of the voters solidly behind him, but no matter how long he ran, no matter how much exposure he got on the national level, no matter what, the polls always indicated that a considerably larger number of Democrats, almost twice as many, would vote for George W. Bush rather than see Howard Dean as president. And right now, the indications are that even purtting Dean in charge of the party to keep him from running may have been a big mistake, because Dean is alienating that ame additional ten percent of voting democrats from the democratic party, and in fact, may simply be attemting to ruin the chances of any Democrat winning the presidency during the periods that he cannot run for office.

        Dena has not put the fear of God into Republicans, That is one of the simmple stupid cliches that the politically simple fire off when they blindly approve of anything that their candidates does or says, simply because their candidates is doing it or saying it.

        On the contrary, Dean is driving off the ten percent or so or Republicans who are crossover voters in almot every election, and even pissing off some Democrats. The party that insults EVERY Republican, is not likely to get that ten percent crossover vote, and in fact would be very likely to alienate enough Democratic voters into voting for the Republican candidate no matter who he or she is if Dean acts in a manner that these voters consider inappropriate.

        I was interested in Dean when I first heard about him, but after I found out that his major priimary focus was fiscal conservatism, He was off of my list, because his fiscal conservatism has primarily always been accomplished at the expense of the most vulnerable, without sacriifices being made by the welathy or corporatations. In Vermont itself there were Republicans who stated that Dean went TOO FAR in accomodating busineses in that state.Or at least this was something I read one of those meet the candidate web sites done by GWU or Election 2004 sites.

        I had the opportunity to meet Dean, and speak to him on three separate occasions, and personally, he can be very charming, a lot more charming than I expected given his frequent public persona. But I found that Dean had the one quality I exptected him to have. He is a doctor, and he acts like one. Like Bush, he has fixed beleifs, beleives he is right, and and is less likely to change his point of view, or change his directions, even when facts dictate that it is necessary for him to do so.

        Other than that, as a politician, he took more time talking to me than any other of the candidates, but even that seemed like good bedside manner.

        IN fact, I think if he came across less abrasive, and more like the person who took five or ten minutes to talk to a simple voter. It might do him good.

        I might even consider voting for hi,m, when right now, if he was running for the presidency, I would be more likely to sit home and vote for no one in protest, and I am not alone in that sentiment. From the figures I have seen batted around, between those Dems who would vote Republican had been the nominee, and those who would have sat at home, Dean did not, and probably never could, beat any candidate the Republicans put up against him, even a wingnut like  Ron Paul.

  •  I wrote about this in my diary (none)

    I think we need to send the DNC some email that they can send to the so called Democratic "leadership" in the Senate, House and Governors houses about who REALLY butter their bread.

    Their riffing on Dean is pissing me off. If they want MY money  they better start talking about issues that affect ALL Americans and STOP attacking Dean. Wake me when Richardson speaks ill of ANYONE in the RNC.

    Dean is doing EXACTLY what needs to be done.

  •  No matter what Dean supporters think (none)
    Dean was hired to work for the Democratic Party, and its leadership, and not to become the party itself.

    Most of the political pundits view the current situation in the same way.  They state without any doubt, that Dean was made head of the DNC to keep him from running, and not becuase he represents any major threat to other candidates, but because the majority of polls showed that Dean simply could not win, due to the fact that he alienated the ten percent of Republicans who tend to swing vote and choose a Democratic candidate, as well as most polls during the nomination process that indicated if Dean was the nominee, more Democrats would cross over to vote Republican. Most polls taken of both Democrats and Republicans asking who they would vote for if any particular candidate was the Democratic Nominee showed a cross over vote that matched pretty closely the historical cross over. THus polls that asked, who would you vote for if Gephardt were the Democratic nominee, If Kerry were the Democratic nominee, etc, showed the historical figures that clustered around ten percent of the Republicans crosing over to vote for the Democrat, and Ten percent of the Democrats crossing over to vote for the Republicans, showed up for all of the major candidates except for Dean. When asked who they would vote for if Dean was the Democratic Nominee, the Republican cross over to vote DEmocratic dropped only a bit, at the lower end of the historical range, around eight percent, but Democrats who said they would cross over and vote for Bush figures ran in the area of 18 to 20 percent, when Dean was the presumed nominee.

    This stayed farily consistant throught the period after the first nine democratic contenders had all thrown their hats in the ring.

    Dean is viewed largely as a candidate who would be the candidate most likely to result in a Republican win for the White House, statistically.

    Any candidate who says that ALL Republicans are anything. is very unlikly to win the affections of those Republicans who sometimes tend to vote for a Democratic candidate if they are relatively moderate Republicans who do not oppose all Democratic ideas.

    There are a substantial number of Democrats, myself included, who, if Dean was the nominee, would have simply sat out the vote, figuring that another few years of Republicans would not be as bad a choice as Howard Dean.

    Dean is doing what he did when he was the head of the Democratic Governors Association and it was his job to select Democratic Candidates who could unseat Republican incuments, or take seats that were open, and Dean did what he seems to be doing now. Dean's ego is running wild, and he is using the position as a platform for himself,expressing ideas that are not necessarily those of the entire wide range of Democrats.

    Many feel that while keeping Dean from making a mess of a presidential campaign and assuring another Democratic win was a better idea than leaving him free to run. However, it is becomming apparant to many Democrats, that Deans behavior is taking aim at making certain that no democratic candidate can possibly win the presidency if he is unable to run.

    Dean is a major embarassment, pure and simple.

    In fact, if all he is able to do is raise money, it is simply not enough. Raising more money than anyone else more quickly than anyone else did not win him the nomination.

    It is my hope that those in the democratic party who are capable of doing so, do so in a manner that are so embarrassing to Dean that he will simply be a candidate who will not be able to ever be seriously considered as a candidate for any office higher than Surgeon General, if that.

    Dean has the personality of a doctor, with an ego a mile wide. He is not all that dis-similar from Dubya. He gets an idea in his head, sets a policy, and even if this policy ends up being proven problematic, he sticks to his guns regarless of the damage done. He clearly lacks the ability to change directions when that proves necessary. As governor he always did, He had one guiding principle and that was balancing budgets. And he did not care who got damaged in the balancing of them.

    Bet you all that no matter how much support it SEEMS that Dean has, that this support will vanish as quickly as support for his nomination bid did agter Iowa, if the leaders of the party decide that Dean is an embarassment, and damn the money he raises.

    While Dean was governor, everybody who pointed out that those who kept him in the gpovernors office in the state of Vermont were a coaltions of the more conservatiove elements of the Democratic Party, as well as the moderate wing of the Republican Party., would always jump to Deans defense for doing so. You cant have it both ways.

    Dean simply cannot have a political history of actions and policies that had most Vermont POlitical Scentists defining his political leanings as those of a Rockerfeller Republican, which is not unlikly, as Deans father was was a major supporter of the campaigns of Nelson Rockerfeller. While Dean was governor, one of the questions he was asked most often by the Vermont media was simply "Why he was not a Republican" because he frequently attacked the liberal and progressive wings of the Democratic Party and Progressive Party, and fo the most part, every veto that he issued, or threat of veto, was directed at liberal democratic, or progressive legislation, even at times when polls of the voters showed that the Vermont public supported that legislation by a very large majority, most of the time exceeding 70 percent. Dean';s threat to Veto Medical Marijuana legislation is one example, where 70- percent of the voters supported it, there was a supermajority support for it in the Vermont Senate, and almost a supermajority support for it in the Vermont House. He did the same thing when virtually every Democrat and Progressive in the state of Vermont were about to pass legislation to allow the opening of Methadone Clinics in Vermont.

    Yet it is almost histerical that Dean, the beloved candidate of all but the far right of Vermonts Republican Party, now rails as the arch enemy of all things Republican.

    It is obvious that Dean will say anything that will enhance his own personla political ambitions, evne to the point of harming the Democratic Party, and the chances of other candidates to win or keep their offices, for his own personal gain.

    One thing that Deans own party noted when he was Governor was that he would not compromise his conservative outlook to work with other democrats.

    His record spealks this loudly. Dean has never taken part of supporting anything liberal or progressive as governor, until the liberal or progressive actions were faite accompli. When it cam to civil unions, at the time he said that this was something that was not even on his radar screen ,but now that it was law, it was his job to uphold that law. There is very little if anything of a liberal or progressive nature that Dean can claim leadership in when it occured in Vermont, merely support for it once years of hard work on the part of others had accomplished it.

    It is my opinion that if Dean cannot run, he will not allow any other Democrat to win. And it is becoming obvious to a lot of other leaders in the Democratic Party, that this may be Dean goal as well.

    •  I'm sorry... (none)
      I tried and tried to absytain from name-calling, but you are a complete ass.  And ignorant to boot.

      You use three hundred words to say absolutely nothing of substance.

      Nada.  Zip.  Zilch.

      I won't even bother to deconstruct your utter bullshit.  It -- and you -- are not worth it.

      If it ain't in the Bible, it ain't science!

      by Bob Johnson on Thu Jun 09, 2005 at 05:34:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Im sorry (none)
        I am also tempted to call all those who support Dean for absolutely no good reason, more or of the sam temperment of those who support Bush regardless od the totally as backwards nature of the policies he has instituted.

        Dean was, is and always will be one of the most conservative members of the Democratic party, for all of his talk, there is absolutely NOTHING in his performance as governor that in any way shape or form matches the rhetoric he spouts to get those who cannot see further than there own nose to rave about him.

        Most of his supporters are exactly of the same temperment as those who support Bush because he says he is a good christian. Dean is not even a good Democrat.

        Lets check out Lt Governor Howard Dean's response to a bill guaranteeing Gay civil rights"

        Candidates respond to OITM survey

        Lieutenant Governor: Howard Dean would not support a civil rights bill "aimed specifically at any given group" but he would include lesbian/gay civil rights protection in a broader bill. He did support the HTLV-III anti-discrimination bill sponsored by Micque Glitmen last year. He would support state funding for education and services to people with AIDS and people in high-risk groups. He would support re-instituting the State Human Rights Commission. He was ambivalent about appointing a liaison simply because he wasn't sure if it was necessary because of numerous "friends and supporters" in the gay community

        As usual, When John Kerry was authoring and sponsoring a "FEDERAL" gay civil rights bill in the U.S. Senate, Howard Dean was in the background,being cautious, not making any move, as he did before the gay civil unions law was passed in Vermont. When asked, he would not answer whetther he supported civil unions or not before the supreme court of Vermont made its decision.

        Dean had nothing to do with the efforts to create civil unions, had nothing to do with the progressive income tax of the state of Vermont, except to oppose it.

        As governor Dean did the following:

        Throughout the 1990s, Dean's cuts in state aid to education, retirement funds for teachers and state employees, health care, welfare and other social programs amounted to roughly $30 million. Dean claimed that the cuts were necessary because the state had no money and was burdened by a $60 million deficit. But during the same period, Dean found $7 million for a low-interest loan program for businesses, $30 million for a new prison in Springfield, VT, and he cut the income tax by 8 percent (equivalent to $30 million)-a move many in the legislature balked at because they didn't feel comfortable "cutting taxes in a way that benefits the wealthiest taxpayers." By 2002, state investments in prisons increased by nearly 150 percent while investments in state colleges increased by only 7 percent.

        I can always tell a real zombie eyed Deanie, when they attack me, but have absolutely NO ability to respond to historicalally accurate discuusions of things Dean actually did or didnt do.

        The strongest response some of them have is "I lived in Vermont...I know"

        Gee Howard doesnt need to talk to Jesus, he is so taken with himself that all he does is talk in a mirror to bveleive he is communing with the God.

  •  23 word that say less than nothing! (none)
    This response is less than rambling. It is the response of a pre-kindergartener when they have no answer.

    The support of of Dean is not a rational movement, it is simply another cult.

    Fortunately Dean is following the excat same kind of path that he took before Iowa, that led to the collapse of his faked campaign, which loaded the appearances of support by Dean holding campaign rallies art the borders of states, and then bussing in hundreds of people from the adjoining states.

    Even that was not foolproof though. When Dean tried to make it appear that he had large support in Florida, I remember the parkikng lot of the hotel in the downtown area, where busses from  Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, and other adjacent states wuth Deanies unloading showed up and then started trying to pack the smaller auditorium. Even then, to create appearances, they had to pack all the Dean supporters into the center of the room, bring the camera's close in, and then crop the photos to make it appear that Dean had packed the place.
    Watching this tiny group of less than a hundred people huddled FAR  away from the walls of a tiny open meeting room was hysterical. THe am trhing happpened in Tennessee,when in order to give the appearances of hundreds, the Dean people pulled in People from all over that one state and the adjoining states. Even in Deans own country, Vermont, it was necessary to hold one of his later rallies at the border of the two New England States that  bordered his own, and even then, the highest head counbt was in the low three thousands. Dean support among his supporters is largely in their own minds, and as the media carefully deconstructed Dean, his past, and his past statements, as well as the totally inconsistant positions that he had taken throughout his political career Deans campaign was dead, even whiule polls indicated he was at the top.

    There is a cardinal sin in politics, that once made results in the inability of a candidate to ever win. That is not lying. That is expected of politicians, and those words are "What I meant was".

    Everytime Dean has to explain what he meant by one of his moronic statements, is time that he cannot spend on advancing the political cause he is attgempting to advance.

    I remember gleefully when Dennis Kucinich caught Dean on Social Security at the Souty Carolina debates, and Dean denied he had ever stated he wanted cuts to Social Security and he denied it. Within a day every major newspaper in the country publishing Deans own quotes about Social Security "reform", even those Dean had made only three weeks earlier in June of 2003, Dean was out ther again "apologizing to the American People" stating he was wrong to consider cutting Social Security.

    At this point Dick Gephart, bless his patriotic soul, starts a thorough job of researching the "REAL DEAN", and starts publishing massive quantities of articles from the three major newspapers from Vermont during Deans 11 years a governor.

    At this point, Dean's attempts to run were dead. And stayed Dead, and the great thing is that all that information is there to be thrown right up again, and it is the kind of stuff that readily destroys political careers at the national level.

    Long deconstruction of a candidates political career is always far more effective at doing it that the
    "neenr, neener neener" kind of response to that deconstruction which I am responding to.

    It makes it clear that only only kind of support that Dean can really muster is among immature children. Or those who are so at heart.

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